Jump to content

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fan translation: Difference between revisions

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Content deleted Content added
Legobot (talk | contribs)
m Bot: Fixing lint errors, replacing obsolete HTML tags: <font> (3x)
 
(22 intermediate revisions by 16 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
<div class="boilerplate metadata afd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
===[[Fan translation]]===
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
{{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|{{{cat}}}}}
<!--Template:Afd top


Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links in order to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]]. When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->

The result was '''keep'''. [[User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me|Can't sleep, clown will eat me]] 04:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

===[[Fan translation]]===
:{{la|Fan translation}} – <includeonly>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fan translation|View AfD]])</includeonly><noinclude>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2007 July 12#{{anchorencode:Fan translation}}|View log]])</noinclude>
:{{la|Fan translation}} – <includeonly>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fan translation|View AfD]])</includeonly><noinclude>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2007 July 12#{{anchorencode:Fan translation}}|View log]])</noinclude>
if all [[WP:NOR]] and [[WP:V]] violations were removed, you'd have a stub that couldn't ever be expanded [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 01:09, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
If all [[WP:NOR]] and [[WP:V]] violations were removed, you'd have a stub that couldn't ever be expanded [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 01:09, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''keep'''. legitimate topic widespread phenomenon, just as [[fansub]]. [[User:Mukadderat|Mukadderat]] 01:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''keep'''. legitimate topic widespread phenomenon, just as [[fansub]]. [[User:Mukadderat|Mukadderat]] 01:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
**your justification violates [[WP:V]] and [[WP:ATT]] [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 03:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
**your justification violates [[WP:V]] and [[WP:ATT]] [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 03:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Per Mukadderat. --<font color="green" face="Berling Antiqua">hello, i'm a [[User:Member|<font color="orange">member</font>]]</font> | [[User talk:Member|<font color="grey">talk to me!</font>]] 01:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Per Mukadderat. --<span style="color: green; font-family: Berling Antiqua;">hello, i'm a [[User:Member|<span style="color: orange;">member</span>]]</span> | [[User talk:Member|<span style="color: grey;">talk to me!</span>]] 01:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''keep''' Just needs better sourcing. -- [[User:Ishikawa Minoru|Ishikawa Minoru]] 03:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''keep''' Just needs better sourcing. -- [[User:Ishikawa Minoru|Ishikawa Minoru]] 03:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Fan translation is a legitimate topic. The article needs a drastic overhaul, but to delete it entirely is going much too far. --[[User:Tenka Muteki|Tenka Muteki]] 04:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Fan translation is a legitimate topic. The article needs a drastic overhaul, but to delete it entirely is going much too far. --[[User:Tenka Muteki|Tenka Muteki]] 04:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Line 14: Line 20:
****your recommending i put my money where my mouth is and actually do something instead of claiming it can be done? i propose you put your money where your mouth is and find a claim of mine that fits that description. if you can do that i'll see what i can do [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 12:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
****your recommending i put my money where my mouth is and actually do something instead of claiming it can be done? i propose you put your money where your mouth is and find a claim of mine that fits that description. if you can do that i'll see what i can do [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 12:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*****And you seem to be more interested in deleting the topic than actually doing something about its flaws. [[User:Kitsune Sniper|Kitsune Sniper / David Silva]] 03:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
*****And you seem to be more interested in deleting the topic than actually doing something about its flaws. [[User:Kitsune Sniper|Kitsune Sniper / David Silva]] 03:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
******deleting the topic is doing something about its flaws [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 15:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Here's a challenge: try to find a non-list article with more redlinks than this one. Basically reads like a bunch of little nn articles crammed into one big nn article. Full of grotesquely unencylopedic tidbits such as "''RPGe's translation of Final Fantasy V was completed October 16, 1997 (version 0.96).''" [[User:Starblind|Andrew Lenahan]] - <b><FONT COLOR="#FF0000">St</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF5500">ar</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF8000">bli</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FFC000">nd</FONT></b> 03:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Here's a challenge: try to find a non-list article with more redlinks than this one. Basically reads like a bunch of little nn articles crammed into one big nn article. Full of grotesquely unencylopedic tidbits such as "''RPGe's translation of Final Fantasy V was completed October 16, 1997 (version 0.96).''" [[User:Starblind|Andrew Lenahan]] - <b><span style="color:#FF0000;">St</span><span style="color:#FF5500;">ar</span><span style="color:#FF8000;">bli</span><span style="color:#FFC000;">nd</span></b> 03:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Well, on the one hand, this article fails [[WP:V]], [[WP:ATT]], [[WP:NOR]], and more alphabet soup; in addition, it's full of fan trivia, lingo, and God knows what else. I'm not 100% certain that it's an unencyclopedic topic; however, if it were kept, it would continue to bloat as more and more ultra-anal geeks add more of their "favorite" fan translation tidbits. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten&nbsp;Pound&nbsp;Hammer</span>]] • <sup>((([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken&nbsp;clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter&nbsp;chirps]])))</sup> 03:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Well, on the one hand, this article fails [[WP:V]], [[WP:ATT]], [[WP:NOR]], and more alphabet soup; in addition, it's full of fan trivia, lingo, and God knows what else. I'm not 100% certain that it's an unencyclopedic topic; however, if it were kept, it would continue to bloat as more and more ultra-anal geeks add more of their "favorite" fan translation tidbits. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten&nbsp;Pound&nbsp;Hammer</span>]] • <sup>((([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken&nbsp;clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter&nbsp;chirps]])))</sup> 03:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep.''' Yes, there are problems, but they can be fixed. Although, I suggest a disambiguation link to be placed in its place so it can link to fansubbing, scanlations, and similar topics. [[User:Kitsune Sniper|Kitsune Sniper / David Silva]] 05:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep.''' Yes, there are problems, but they can be fixed. Although, I suggest a disambiguation link to be placed in its place so it can link to fansubbing, scanlations, and similar topics. [[User:Kitsune Sniper|Kitsune Sniper / David Silva]] 05:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Redirect''' to [[Fansub]], merge eventual non-redundant information (there's seems to be very little of it)--[[User:Victor falk|Victor falk]] 05:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Redirect''' to [[Fansub]], merge eventual non-redundant information (there's seems to be very little of it)--[[User:Victor falk|Victor falk]] 05:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Much of the current article content lacks [[WP:RS]]; however, this has actually been discussed in published works, e.g. {{cite book|last=Carless|first=Simon|title=Gaming Hacks|publisher=O'Reilly|date=2004|id=ISBN 0596007140|pages=p. 265-7}}, which even mentioned some individual fan translation groups. Also it seems to me that [[fansub]] is a type of "fan translation", rather than "fan translation" being a subtopic of subtitling. This article, though, might be better off at [[Video game fan translation]] or something, since that's what it's actually about; it doesn't mention fan translations of other media like comics, books (yes, I've seen a few of these floating around the web), etc. Cheers, [[User:CaliforniaAliBaba|cab]] 06:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Much of the current article content lacks [[WP:RS]]; however, this has actually been discussed in published works, e.g. {{cite book|last=Carless|first=Simon|title=Gaming Hacks|publisher=O'Reilly|date=2004|id=ISBN 0596007140|pages= 265-7}}, which even mentioned some individual fan translation groups. Also it seems to me that [[fansub]] is a type of "fan translation", rather than "fan translation" being a subtopic of subtitling. This article, though, might be better off at [[Video game fan translation]] or something, since that's what it's actually about; it doesn't mention fan translations of other media like comics, books (yes, I've seen a few of these floating around the web), etc. Cheers, [[User:CaliforniaAliBaba|cab]] 06:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
**I agree. I mentioned this a bit ago. I've never been comfortable with having Fan Translation dedicated to games only, it should be a disambiguation topic instead. [[User:201.143.47.161|201.143.47.161]] 13:39, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
**I agree. I mentioned this a bit ago. I've never been comfortable with having Fan Translation dedicated to games only, it should be a disambiguation topic instead. [[User:201.143.47.161|201.143.47.161]] 13:39, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep.''' Per Kitsune Sniper. [[User:Spikeman|Spikeman]] 06:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep.''' Per Kitsune Sniper. [[User:Spikeman|Spikeman]] 06:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' as per cab [[User:J. T. Lance|J. T. Lance]] 09:02, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' as per cab [[User:J. T. Lance|J. T. Lance]] 09:02, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' with [[Fansub]]. As ahs been mentined these are both valid topics and do have sourcing - however both of them are also pretty bloated with apparent original research and have a significant amount of overlap. Merging the two into a single article would be the superior solution. [[User:Arkyan|<b><font color="#0000FF">ɑʀк</font></b>]]<b><font color="#6060BF">[[User_talk:Arkyan|ʏɑɴ]]</font></b> 15:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' with [[Fansub]]. As ahs been mentined these are both valid topics and do have sourcing - however both of them are also pretty bloated with apparent original research and have a significant amount of overlap. Merging the two into a single article would be the superior solution. [[User:Arkyan|<b style="color:#0000FF;">ɑʀк</b>]][[User_talk:Arkyan|<b style="color:#6060BF;">ʏɑɴ</b>]] 15:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep'''. There's absolutely no reason to delete this article, or to merge it with Fansub. Both topics are very different in nature, and good written articles about them could be very lengthy (fansub one already is), so putting that one as a subsection would only lead to massive confusion. What is needed is a good rewrite of both articles. So far, no one gave a good reason, and following some of the Wikipedia guidelines for deletion would mean that practically half of the contents of the encyclopedia should be deleted. --[[User:Lashiec|Lashiec]] 16:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep'''. There's absolutely no reason to delete this article, or to merge it with Fansub. Both topics are very different in nature, and good written articles about them could be very lengthy (fansub one already is), so putting that one as a subsection would only lead to massive confusion. What is needed is a good rewrite of both articles. So far, no one gave a good reason, and following some of the Wikipedia guidelines for deletion would mean that practically half of the contents of the encyclopedia should be deleted. --[[User:Lashiec|Lashiec]] 16:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
::that that half hasn't been deleted doesn't mean that this shouldn't be. see [[WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS]]. [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 18:33, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
::that that half hasn't been deleted doesn't mean that this shouldn't be. see [[WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS]]. [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 18:33, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Line 32: Line 39:
::::Wait, a website that has been around for almost ten years, has relevant ties to game developers and publishers, and which has interviewed lots of individuals in the gaming industry... isn't a valid source? You seem to treat the organizations in your reply in high regard, when they rarely if ever have coverage related to video games at all. RPGamer isn't a blog that some fifteen-year old runs from his basement; this is a very valid source for information. I don't understand why you keep saying it isn't. [[User:Kitsune Sniper|Kitsune Sniper / David Silva]] 03:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Wait, a website that has been around for almost ten years, has relevant ties to game developers and publishers, and which has interviewed lots of individuals in the gaming industry... isn't a valid source? You seem to treat the organizations in your reply in high regard, when they rarely if ever have coverage related to video games at all. RPGamer isn't a blog that some fifteen-year old runs from his basement; this is a very valid source for information. I don't understand why you keep saying it isn't. [[User:Kitsune Sniper|Kitsune Sniper / David Silva]] 03:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:::*Quoting the link from your argument [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|'Reliable sources']] "Reliable sources are authors or publications regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand." BBC, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, ABC, NBC are not "authoritative in relation to the subject at hand." I read video game news and I have never used these sources for game news since they are not "authoritative in relation to the subject at hand." As a qualifier as a reliable source for "video game news" I propose anyone who has been invited to the 2007 E3 Media & Business Summit to be reliable publications. RPGamer was invited to the 2007 E3 Media & Business Summit. Again I quote your link "Reliable publications are those with an established structure for fact-checking and editorial oversight." From the [http://www.e3summit07.com/login/login.aspx?redirect=%2findex.aspx 2007 E3 Media & Business Summit website] "The E3 Media & Business Summit is an exclusive, invitation-only, three-day event which will offer the opportunity for both ESA members and non-members to stage major press events" "Who will be attending? Members of the media, retail, development and financial communities will attend, along with other key industry contacts." It is reasonable to assume that media invited to the 2007 E3 Media & Business Summit to be "Reliable publications" otherwise they would not be invited.[[User:StarBeamAlpha|StarBeamAlpha]] 04:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:::*Quoting the link from your argument [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|'Reliable sources']] "Reliable sources are authors or publications regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand." BBC, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, ABC, NBC are not "authoritative in relation to the subject at hand." I read video game news and I have never used these sources for game news since they are not "authoritative in relation to the subject at hand." As a qualifier as a reliable source for "video game news" I propose anyone who has been invited to the 2007 E3 Media & Business Summit to be reliable publications. RPGamer was invited to the 2007 E3 Media & Business Summit. Again I quote your link "Reliable publications are those with an established structure for fact-checking and editorial oversight." From the [http://www.e3summit07.com/login/login.aspx?redirect=%2findex.aspx 2007 E3 Media & Business Summit website] "The E3 Media & Business Summit is an exclusive, invitation-only, three-day event which will offer the opportunity for both ESA members and non-members to stage major press events" "Who will be attending? Members of the media, retail, development and financial communities will attend, along with other key industry contacts." It is reasonable to assume that media invited to the 2007 E3 Media & Business Summit to be "Reliable publications" otherwise they would not be invited.[[User:StarBeamAlpha|StarBeamAlpha]] 04:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
::::try creating an article on RPGamer. watch how fast it gets deleted. if its not notable enough for an article, why is it notable enough for a citation? [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 15:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::Not very fast apparently, RPGamer been on wikipedia since 22 July 2005 [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=RPGamer&limit=500&action=history http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=RPGamer&limit=500&action=history] I guess from logic of your previous sentence you just proved to yourself that RPGamer is "notable enough for a citation" I am also working on writing some more stuff for the article including another source from EGM which also has its own article [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGM] EGM's circulation in 2005 was 608,133 with source: [http://www.magweasel.com/wiki/Electronic_Gaming_Monthly http://www.magweasel.com/wiki/Electronic_Gaming_Monthly] Lets work together Misterdiscreet and make this a better article. :) Do you like playing fan translations as I do?[[User:StarBeamAlpha|StarBeamAlpha]] 17:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
::::::i concede this round to you. nice job [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 19:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep'''. I just added a reliable source from a interview with a game developer that mentioned fan translations that was published today, 12 July 2007. Also, here are 4 magazine scans on an article entitled "Japanese Rom Translation" from Retro Gamer, a published magizine. [http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6211/tra17fu.jpg Page1] [http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1900/tra26ba.jpg Page2][http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4573/tra37ws.jpg Page3] [http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7259/tra42bl.jpg Page4] [[User:StarBeamAlpha|StarBeamAlpha]] 18:01, 20:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep'''. I just added a reliable source from a interview with a game developer that mentioned fan translations that was published today, 12 July 2007. Also, here are 4 magazine scans on an article entitled "Japanese Rom Translation" from Retro Gamer, a published magizine. [http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6211/tra17fu.jpg Page1] [http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1900/tra26ba.jpg Page2][http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4573/tra37ws.jpg Page3] [http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7259/tra42bl.jpg Page4] [[User:StarBeamAlpha|StarBeamAlpha]] 18:01, 20:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' The added sources make it 'legitimate'. The article just needs a little cleanup now. [[User:Joe User NY|Joe User NY]] 01:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' The added sources make it 'legitimate'. The article just needs a little cleanup now. [[User:Joe User NY|Joe User NY]] 01:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' just because an article needs cleanup doesn't mean it should be deleted --[[User:Micpp|Micpp]] 04:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep''' this is a needed article. properly referenced, just needs cleanup. [[User:Turlo Lomon|Turlo Lomon]] 09:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' (and cleanup) or a grudging '''Merge''' to [[Fansub]]. The concept is clearly notable; the article may not be the best imaginable, but that doesn't need deletion to sort out. --''[[User:Wwwwolf|wwwwolf]]'' ([[User talk:Wwwwolf|barks]]/[[Special:Contributions/Wwwwolf|growls]]) 13:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' vandalizing my user page hurts your credibility. also, looking at the edit histories of most voters, i think there are likely several [[WP:SOCK]] violations [[User:Misterdiscreet|Misterdiscreet]] 15:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:::I don't support vandalism, although after looking at all the badges on your user page I have to question your motives of caring about the subject at hand, do you even play video games? I don't support sock puppets either so feel free to report any suspected sock puppets at this page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets][[User:StarBeamAlpha|StarBeamAlpha]] 17:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:::Personally, I think the vandalism is childish and doesn't help anyone. However, Misterdiscreet, after your last outburst I think you have sock puppet paranoia.
*'''Keep''' The article still needs work, but not so much that deletion is warranted. If '''Merge''' is the consensus, I think merging [[Fansub]] ''into'' this article might be a better idea, since [[Fan translation]] is the more general term and [[Fansub]] is a [[WP:Neologism|neologism]] anyhow. [[User:Qubed|Qubed]] 01:08, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Weak Keep''' Article needs a major rewrite, in its current state it does not fit into Wikipedia. Users that care about this topic have already started rewriting it. Give it a few weeks, if it's still in a bad state then, renominate. --[[User:Apathor|Apathor]] 10:01, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' But please, definitely add some proper sources to the article! - [[User:Brian Kendig|Brian Kendig]] 21:08, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' DeJap Translations and RPGe pages were both recently deleted, so I'm not sure that a proper merge has developed yet. The article is a work in progress, and it seems to be improving over time. Add more sources; if the page is inadequate in a month, renominate for merging. If a merge is executed eventually, [[Scanlation]] and [[Fansub]] should be merged into this page. [[WP:NOR]] and [[WP:V]] are not problematic when legitimate sources are added to the article, and this is already happening. Personally, I think the topic is notable as I have played quite a few of these fan translations when they were the best option available. On a side note, avoid being combative and personal attacks. -[[User:Tsunade|Tsunade]] 23:51, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Legitimate topic. May not have been reported on by many magazines (Though a fair amount have reported on it,) you can't deny the size of the scene, and there's no reason it can't be covered here.[[User:CrawdKenny|CrawdKenny]] 12:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' The topic is notable. Fan translation has been in common practice around since 1998. Legal issues are not a rationale for deletion of this article. The article still needs some work. It mainly needs to be sourced. [[User:Tedius Zanarukando|Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando]] 04:00, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>

Latest revision as of 07:26, 15 March 2023