Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Heuschrecke 10/Archive 2: Difference between revisions
Appearance
Content deleted Content added
→Heuschrecke 10: I'll try to be more specific |
Schierbecker (talk | contribs) m Schierbecker moved page Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Heuschrecke 10/archive4/Archive 2 to Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Heuschrecke 10/Archive 2 over a redirect without leaving a redirect: rvt |
||
(11 intermediate revisions by 5 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
<div class="boilerplate metadata" style="background-color: #edeaff; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #8779DD;"> |
|||
:''The following discussion is preserved as an [[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|archive]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.'' <!-- from Template:Archive top--> |
|||
=== [[Heuschrecke 10]] === |
=== [[Heuschrecke 10]] === |
||
* Prior nomination [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Heuschrecke 10/Archive 1|here]]. |
* Prior nomination [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Heuschrecke 10/Archive 1|here]]. |
||
I believe that this is ready for an A-Class marking. I have changed it since my last comment at <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Peer_review/Heuschrecke_10&oldid=177593183 13 December 2007]</span>. I have added a reference, and have completed it I believe. [[User:Dreamafter|< |
I believe that this is ready for an A-Class marking. I have changed it since my last comment at <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Peer_review/Heuschrecke_10&oldid=177593183 13 December 2007]</span>. I have added a reference, and have completed it I believe. [[User:Dreamafter|<span style="color:crimson;">Dreamafter</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Dreamafter|<span style="color:purple;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 19:49, 24 December 2007 (UTC) |
||
*Comments: |
*Comments: |
||
**Why is "Geschützwagen IV" in parenthasis in the opening paragraph? There doesn't seem to be a reason for it, although I do not know that for a fact. {{done}} |
**Why is "Geschützwagen IV" in parenthasis in the opening paragraph? There doesn't seem to be a reason for it, although I do not know that for a fact. {{done}} |
||
Line 12: | Line 15: | ||
##{{done}} |
##{{done}} |
||
##Which sections should be merged, and why? |
##Which sections should be merged, and why? |
||
##Thanks for the help fixing it. It will be done, so that it can get A-Class. [[User:Dreamafter|< |
##Thanks for the help fixing it. It will be done, so that it can get A-Class. [[User:Dreamafter|<span style="color:crimson;">Dreamafter</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Dreamafter|<span style="color:purple;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 21:53, 24 December 2007 (UTC) |
||
*'''Oppose'''. See reasons below. [[User:Bukvoed|Bukvoed]] ([[User talk:Bukvoed|talk]]) 07:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC) |
*'''Oppose'''. See reasons below. [[User:Bukvoed|Bukvoed]] ([[User talk:Bukvoed|talk]]) 07:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC) |
||
Line 18: | Line 21: | ||
***{{done}} '''I think.''' |
***{{done}} '''I think.''' |
||
****Yes, it's better now, though I think more can be done. For example, I think I'd incorporate ''Armament and propulsion'' into ''design'' (simple merge ? subsection ?). |
****Yes, it's better now, though I think more can be done. For example, I think I'd incorporate ''Armament and propulsion'' into ''design'' (simple merge ? subsection ?). |
||
*****{{done}} |
|||
**I failed to understand what exactly do M60 and M104 AVLBs owe to the Heuschrecke rather than to WWII era bridgelayers such as [[Covenanter tank|Covenanter bridgelayer]]. |
**I failed to understand what exactly do M60 and M104 AVLBs owe to the Heuschrecke rather than to WWII era bridgelayers such as [[Covenanter tank|Covenanter bridgelayer]]. |
||
***It is for the modern equivalents, I will add the link above in to the article, as one from that time. {{done}} |
***It is for the modern equivalents, I will add the link above in to the article, as one from that time. {{done}} |
||
****That's how I understand the situation, please correct me if I am wrong. There were WWII era bridgelayers (Covenanter is just one example, there were bridgelayers based on Churchill, Pz IV, Sherman and possibly other chassis; at least some were developed earlier the the Heuschrecke). Then there is Heuschrecke, a WWII era SP howitzer fitted with a mechanism for lifting its turret; the mechanism may have been similar to these used on WWII era bridgelayers. Then there are modern bridgelayers, they are pretty direct descendants of WWII era bridgelayers and seemingly don't use any notable principle or technology that was specific for Heuschrecke. Now if I am right, I thick the section should simply be removed. If I am wrong and modern bridgelayers do owe somehing historically or technologically to Heuschrecke, I think you should be more specific. |
****That's how I understand the situation, please correct me if I am wrong. There were WWII era bridgelayers (Covenanter is just one example, there were bridgelayers based on Churchill, Pz IV, Sherman and possibly other chassis; at least some were developed earlier the the Heuschrecke). Then there is Heuschrecke, a WWII era SP howitzer fitted with a mechanism for lifting its turret; the mechanism may have been similar to these used on WWII era bridgelayers. Then there are modern bridgelayers, they are pretty direct descendants of WWII era bridgelayers and seemingly don't use any notable principle or technology that was specific for Heuschrecke. Now if I am right, I thick the section should simply be removed. If I am wrong and modern bridgelayers do owe somehing historically or technologically to Heuschrecke, I think you should be more specific. |
||
*****{{done}} |
|||
**Most of the sources are anonymous internet pages or other wikipedia articles. Some sources do not seem to support the footnoted text. E.g. the article from ''Achtung Panzer'' explicitly states that ''design never reached the production stage''; the ''The Air and Missile Defense Journal'' article on PzIV (actually [[Panzer IV|a copy from Wikipedia]], so it's probably better idea to link directly to the source :)) does not even mention the competing Alkett/Rhinemetall-Borsig vehicle. |
**Most of the sources are anonymous internet pages or other wikipedia articles. Some sources do not seem to support the footnoted text. E.g. the article from ''Achtung Panzer'' explicitly states that ''design never reached the production stage''; the ''The Air and Missile Defense Journal'' article on PzIV (actually [[Panzer IV|a copy from Wikipedia]], so it's probably better idea to link directly to the source :)) does not even mention the competing Alkett/Rhinemetall-Borsig vehicle. |
||
***'''I fail to understand what must be fixed here... Sorry...''' |
***'''I fail to understand what must be fixed here... Sorry...''' |
||
****I'll try to be more specific. 1) The link to Panzer IV article in ''The Air and Missile Defense Journal'' link should be replaced with internal link to [[Panzer IV]]. 2) The aforementioned article serves as a source for the ''competition'' section about a Alkett/Rhinemetall-Borsig vehicle; however I failed to find any mention of that Alkett/Rhinemetall-Borsig vehicle in the article. Unless I missed something, the footnote should be removed. 3) If possible, try to locate better sources than anonymous web pages (I understand that it may not be trivial). May be sources listed in the fortunecity article ? |
****I'll try to be more specific. 1) The link to Panzer IV article in ''The Air and Missile Defense Journal'' link should be replaced with internal link to [[Panzer IV]]. {{done}} 2) The aforementioned article serves as a source for the ''competition'' section about a Alkett/Rhinemetall-Borsig vehicle; however I failed to find any mention of that Alkett/Rhinemetall-Borsig vehicle in the article. Unless I missed something, the footnote should be removed. {{done}} 3) If possible, try to locate better sources than anonymous web pages (I understand that it may not be trivial). May be sources listed in the fortunecity article ? |
||
*****They are already in the article, but this provides them in a concise form. |
|||
**''Type: Prototype self-propelled gun or self-propelled Howitzer and Artillery'' (with three footnotes) - seems unnecessary long and confusing. IMHO ''Self-propelled howitzer'' would be enough. |
**''Type: Prototype self-propelled gun or self-propelled Howitzer and Artillery'' (with three footnotes) - seems unnecessary long and confusing. IMHO ''Self-propelled howitzer'' would be enough. |
||
***{{done}} |
***{{done}} |
||
****I still don't see why both ''howitzer'' and ''artillery'' are mentioned, After all, every howitzer is an artillery piece. |
****I still don't see why both ''howitzer'' and ''artillery'' are mentioned, After all, every howitzer is an artillery piece. |
||
*****Pardon? It is not like that now. At least I think it is... |
|||
**I am not sure, but may be it would be better to move the armor layout to separate table? |
**I am not sure, but may be it would be better to move the armor layout to separate table? |
||
***'''It was, but it was mentioned that that would just be to "tabley", so it was moved to the infobox.''' |
***'''It was, but it was mentioned that that would just be to "tabley", so it was moved to the infobox.''' |
||
Line 33: | Line 40: | ||
***{{doing}} |
***{{doing}} |
||
**It would be nice to have walkaround photos of the vehicle. And may be some historical photos too. I understand that I probably ask for too much, so please ignore this remark... unless you happen to have these photos... |
**It would be nice to have walkaround photos of the vehicle. And may be some historical photos too. I understand that I probably ask for too much, so please ignore this remark... unless you happen to have these photos... |
||
***{{ |
***{{done}} |
||
**I think that the leading section is supposed to be a short overview of the important points of the article; any information that appears only in the leading section should be duplicated somewhere below. |
**I think that the leading section is supposed to be a short overview of the important points of the article; any information that appears only in the leading section should be duplicated somewhere below. |
||
***Like what information? |
|||
**I was somewhat confused by the sentence ''Design lasted from May 1943 to May 1944 and had reached the production stage''. The dates seem to be in conflict with the ''developed by Krupp-Gruson in 1942 to 1943''; production stage (I think) typically means that the vehicle entered mass production which this one didn't. |
**I was somewhat confused by the sentence ''Design lasted from May 1943 to May 1944 and had reached the production stage''. The dates seem to be in conflict with the ''developed by Krupp-Gruson in 1942 to 1943''; production stage (I think) typically means that the vehicle entered mass production which this one didn't. |
||
***{{done}} I think. |
|||
**Of course my understanding of A-class criteria may be poor, my remarks may be too pedantic, my suggestions may be downright wrong et cetera. Just to give a few examples of good articles on similar topics, I personally like [[Jagdtiger]], [[Sturmtiger]] and [[SU-152]]. The first one IMHO would easily pass an A-class review, the other two lack footnotes but otherwise seem OK. |
**Of course my understanding of A-class criteria may be poor, my remarks may be too pedantic, my suggestions may be downright wrong et cetera. Just to give a few examples of good articles on similar topics, I personally like [[Jagdtiger]], [[Sturmtiger]] and [[SU-152]]. The first one IMHO would easily pass an A-class review, the other two lack footnotes but otherwise seem OK. |
||
*'''Object''' I have to say that the Fortune City website does not meet RS and I also suspect that the George Parada website "Achtung Panzer" also appears to be an enthusiast's hobby site. '''[[User:Blnguyen|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">Blnguyen</span>]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|<span style="color:#FA8605;">bananabucket</span>]]'') 05:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC) |
|||
**Then a lot of articles should have the "Achtung Panzer" references removed. [[User:Dreamafter|<span style="color:Crimson;">Dreamafter</span>]] <sup>[[User_talk:Dreamafter|<span style="color:indigo;">\*/</span>]]</sup> 19:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC) |
|||
:''The above discussion is preserved as an [[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|archive]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''<!-- from Template:Archive bottom --></div> |