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adding the sep 4th DRV for completeness (even though it was procedurally closed, it still exists). if this is improper, i apologise, and please feel free to revert me
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<noinclude>{{delrevxfd|date=2023 September 4}}</noinclude>
===[[:Kalki Avatar and Muhammad]]===
<noinclude>{{delrevxfd|date=2023 August 17}}</noinclude>
{{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|M}}
<div class="boilerplate afd vfd xfd-closed archived mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''
<!--Template:Afd top


Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]]. When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->

The result was '''delete'''‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. "Keep" voters do not provide a sufficient rationale, particularly when it comes to providing reliable secondary sources. Given the history of the article, SALTing seems appropriate to me. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 12:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

===[[:Kalki Avatar and Muhammad]]===
<noinclude>{{AFD help}}</noinclude>
<noinclude>{{AFD help}}</noinclude>
:{{la|1=Kalki Avatar and Muhammad}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 August 7#{{anchorencode:Kalki Avatar and Muhammad}}|View log]]</noinclude> | [[Special:Diff/1165732182/cur|edits since nomination]])
:{{la|1=Kalki Avatar and Muhammad}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 August 7#{{anchorencode:Kalki Avatar and Muhammad}}|View log]]</noinclude> | [[Special:Diff/1165732182/cur|edits since nomination]])
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* '''Keep'''. This book is significant in the debate of Indian religions that, ''The book has been considered by reliable sources to have made a significant contribution to ... political or religious movement'', fulfills the condition. Prominent Indian evangelist [[Zakir Naik]] has been criticized for saying things that match the book's content. Furthermore [[Ziaur Rahman Azmi]] also responded to the content of this book and referred to the book. The book has been widely accepted and criticized among Muslim, Hindu and atheist debaters in Indian subcontinent.‍~ [[User:খাত্তাব হাসান|<nowiki>𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒</nowiki>]] <sup>([[User talk:খাত্তাব হাসান|inbox]] - [[Special:Contribs/খাত্তাব হাসান|contribs]])</sup> 13:03, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. This book is significant in the debate of Indian religions that, ''The book has been considered by reliable sources to have made a significant contribution to ... political or religious movement'', fulfills the condition. Prominent Indian evangelist [[Zakir Naik]] has been criticized for saying things that match the book's content. Furthermore [[Ziaur Rahman Azmi]] also responded to the content of this book and referred to the book. The book has been widely accepted and criticized among Muslim, Hindu and atheist debaters in Indian subcontinent.‍~ [[User:খাত্তাব হাসান|<nowiki>𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒</nowiki>]] <sup>([[User talk:খাত্তাব হাসান|inbox]] - [[Special:Contribs/খাত্তাব হাসান|contribs]])</sup> 13:03, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
::Where are the sources? There are none. '''[[User:Aman.kumar.goel|Aman Kumar Goel]]''' <sup>(''[[User talk:Aman.kumar.goel|Talk]]'')</sup> 18:35, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
::Where are the sources? There are none. '''[[User:Aman.kumar.goel|Aman Kumar Goel]]''' <sup>(''[[User talk:Aman.kumar.goel|Talk]]'')</sup> 18:35, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 02:36, 24 July 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --><noinclude> [[Category:Relisted AfD debates|Kalki Avatar and Muhammad]] </noinclude></p>
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 02:36, 24 July 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --><noinclude> </noinclude></p>
::@[[User:Aman.kumar.goel|Aman.kumar.goel]]: I am not happy to see that you proposed for deletion without reading the article. Sources are added to the article itself. You can watch [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkDY192-KUk this video] for Zakir Naik's topic. Although many have criticized him, but you can see [https://www.shongshoy.com/%E0%A6%AE%E0%A7%81%E0%A6%B9%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%AE%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%A6%E0%A6%87-%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BF-%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BF-%E0%A6%85%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%A4%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B0/ this blog] of [[Asif Mohiuddin]], if you know Bengali language. ‍~ [[User:খাত্তাব হাসান|<nowiki>𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒</nowiki>]] <sup>([[User talk:খাত্তাব হাসান|inbox]] - [[Special:Contribs/খাত্তাব হাসান|contribs]])</sup> 05:12, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
::@[[User:Aman.kumar.goel|Aman.kumar.goel]]: I am not happy to see that you proposed for deletion without reading the article. Sources are added to the article itself. You can watch [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkDY192-KUk this video] for Zakir Naik's topic. Although many have criticized him, but you can see [https://www.shongshoy.com/%E0%A6%AE%E0%A7%81%E0%A6%B9%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%AE%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%A6%E0%A6%87-%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BF-%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BF-%E0%A6%85%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%A4%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B0/ this blog] of [[Asif Mohiuddin]], if you know Bengali language. ‍~ [[User:খাত্তাব হাসান|<nowiki>𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒</nowiki>]] <sup>([[User talk:খাত্তাব হাসান|inbox]] - [[Special:Contribs/খাত্তাব হাসান|contribs]])</sup> 05:12, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' I heard about this book in real life during some Vedas Vs Quran debate. That said, this book's local popularity won't decide the notability. GNG requires significant coverage in reliable sources and this book lacks it. [[User:CharlesWain|CharlesWain]] ([[User talk:CharlesWain|talk]]) 10:35, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' I heard about this book in real life during some Vedas Vs Quran debate. That said, this book's local popularity won't decide the notability. GNG requires significant coverage in reliable sources and this book lacks it. [[User:CharlesWain|CharlesWain]] ([[User talk:CharlesWain|talk]]) 10:35, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
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:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' A source analysis table would be very helpful at this point in the discussion.<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 03:55, 31 July 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --><noinclude> [[Category:Relisted AfD debates|Kalki Avatar and Muhammad]] </noinclude></p>
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' A source analysis table would be very helpful at this point in the discussion.<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 03:55, 31 July 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --><noinclude> </noinclude></p>
* '''Keep'''. Obviously this article passes [[WP:GNG]] according to above reference. [[User:মোহাম্মদ জনি হোসেন|মোহাম্মদ জনি হোসেন]] ([[User talk:মোহাম্মদ জনি হোসেন|talk]]) 09:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. Obviously this article passes [[WP:GNG]] according to above reference. [[User:মোহাম্মদ জনি হোসেন|মোহাম্মদ জনি হোসেন]] ([[User talk:মোহাম্মদ জনি হোসেন|talk]]) 09:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


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* '''Keep''', there is a lot of established reliable source here including [[Afrasiab Mehdi Hashmi]], former Pakistani High comissioner, [[Zakir Naik]], [[Ali Gomaa]], [[Ali Unal]], [[Ziaur Rahman Azmi]], [[Asitkumar Bandyopadhyay|Asitkumar Bandhopaddhay]] [[Abubakar Muhammad Zakaria]] etc. and most of the sources discuss the matter in detail, including the published journal articles given in the article from Middle East, Pakistan, Iran and Indonesia from their renowned national leading universities, also there are references from lots of established news articles and international books, so it clearly passes [[WP:RS]], [[WP:NB]] and GNG. But in all the article, there should be also added hindu point of views more to make the article more balanced, because the book and the topic is also very familiar in Hindu communities when it comes to the hindu muslim dialogue, and most of the Hindus gives different explanations of these discussions, their referencial point of views should be also added. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">&mdash;[[User:Masum Ibn Musa|<span style="background:#0000CD;color:gold;"><b>&nbsp;Masum Ibn Musa&nbsp;</b></span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Masum Ibn Musa|<span style="color:#006400">'''Conversation'''</span>]]</sup></span> 10:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep''', there is a lot of established reliable source here including [[Afrasiab Mehdi Hashmi]], former Pakistani High comissioner, [[Zakir Naik]], [[Ali Gomaa]], [[Ali Unal]], [[Ziaur Rahman Azmi]], [[Asitkumar Bandyopadhyay|Asitkumar Bandhopaddhay]] [[Abubakar Muhammad Zakaria]] etc. and most of the sources discuss the matter in detail, including the published journal articles given in the article from Middle East, Pakistan, Iran and Indonesia from their renowned national leading universities, also there are references from lots of established news articles and international books, so it clearly passes [[WP:RS]], [[WP:NB]] and GNG. But in all the article, there should be also added hindu point of views more to make the article more balanced, because the book and the topic is also very familiar in Hindu communities when it comes to the hindu muslim dialogue, and most of the Hindus gives different explanations of these discussions, their referencial point of views should be also added. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">&mdash;[[User:Masum Ibn Musa|<span style="background:#0000CD;color:gold;"><b>&nbsp;Masum Ibn Musa&nbsp;</b></span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Masum Ibn Musa|<span style="color:#006400">'''Conversation'''</span>]]</sup></span> 10:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
'''Delete''' per [[WP:SPAM]], blatantly promotional. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:UrielAcosta|UrielAcosta]] ([[User talk:UrielAcosta#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UrielAcosta|contribs]]) </small>
'''Delete''' per [[WP:SPAM]], blatantly promotional. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:UrielAcosta|UrielAcosta]] ([[User talk:UrielAcosta#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UrielAcosta|contribs]]) </small>
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Still hoping for a source analysis.<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 02:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --><noinclude>[[Category:Relisted AfD debates|Kalki Avatar and Muhammad]][[Category:AfD debates relisted 3 or more times|3 Kalki Avatar and Muhammad]]</noinclude></p>
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Still hoping for a source analysis.<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 02:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
:{{ping|Liz}} Sources were already analyzed. None of them fulfills the requirement of [[WP:GNG]]. '''[[User:Aman.kumar.goel|Aman Kumar Goel]]''' <sup>(''[[User talk:Aman.kumar.goel|Talk]]'')</sup> 05:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:{{ping|Liz}} Sources were already analyzed. None of them fulfills the requirement of [[WP:GNG]]. '''[[User:Aman.kumar.goel|Aman Kumar Goel]]''' <sup>(''[[User talk:Aman.kumar.goel|Talk]]'')</sup> 05:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:: where have you given or discussed the detailed analysis of the sources pointing them specifically? Show. The article meets [[WP:SIGCOV]] of [[WP:GNG]], and besides when SNG is met, GNG is not needed, and according to [[WP:SNG]] of [[WP:NB]], and to the first 66 of the given 67 sources in reference, the article meets the criteria 1, as this book {{tq|''"has been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This can include published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries, bestseller lists, and reviews. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book."''}}, criteria 3, as this book {{tq|''"has been considered by reliable sources to have made a significant contribution to a notable or significant motion picture, or other art form, or event or political or religious movement."''}}, criteria 4, as the book {{tq|''"is, or has been, the subject of instruction at two or more schools, colleges, universities or post-graduate programs in any particular country."''}}. [[Special:Contributions/43.245.120.228|43.245.120.228]] ([[User talk:43.245.120.228|talk]]) 10:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:: where have you given or discussed the detailed analysis of the sources pointing them specifically? Show. The article meets [[WP:SIGCOV]] of [[WP:GNG]], and besides when SNG is met, GNG is not needed, and according to [[WP:SNG]] of [[WP:NB]], and to the first 66 of the given 67 sources in reference, the article meets the criteria 1, as this book {{tq|''"has been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This can include published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries, bestseller lists, and reviews. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book."''}}, criteria 3, as this book {{tq|''"has been considered by reliable sources to have made a significant contribution to a notable or significant motion picture, or other art form, or event or political or religious movement."''}}, criteria 4, as the book {{tq|''"is, or has been, the subject of instruction at two or more schools, colleges, universities or post-graduate programs in any particular country."''}}. [[Special:Contributions/43.245.120.228|43.245.120.228]] ([[User talk:43.245.120.228|talk]]) 10:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
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:*:--<span style="font-family:Futura">[[User:A. B.|A. B.]] <sup>([[User talk:A. B.|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/A. B.|contribs]] • [[Special:CentralAuth/A._B.|global count]])</sup></span> 03:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
:*:--<span style="font-family:Futura">[[User:A. B.|A. B.]] <sup>([[User talk:A. B.|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/A. B.|contribs]] • [[Special:CentralAuth/A._B.|global count]])</sup></span> 03:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
::::Not a single source satisfies [[WP:GNG]]. You believe [https://vdoc.pub/documents/holy-vedas-and-islam-71po0afir7i0 this self-published source] (as [https://vdoc.pub/about stated by the website itself]) "counts towards notability". In any case, your own poor analysis fail to suggest any notability. [[User:Editorkamran|Editorkamran]] ([[User talk:Editorkamran|talk]]) 06:15, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
::::Not a single source satisfies [[WP:GNG]]. You believe [https://vdoc.pub/documents/holy-vedas-and-islam-71po0afir7i0 this self-published source] (as [https://vdoc.pub/about stated by the website itself]) "counts towards notability". In any case, your own poor analysis fail to suggest any notability. [[User:Editorkamran|Editorkamran]] ([[User talk:Editorkamran|talk]]) 06:15, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Editorkamran|Editorkamran]] You answared about only a single source. What about [[Ziaur Rahman Azmi]]'s book? why is this not notable? And what about the work of [[Asitkumar Bandyopadhyay]], Is his work was not notable? He was the president of [[Paschimbanga Bangla Akademi]], who translated it and added an appendix chapter. ‍~ [[User:খাত্তাব হাসান|<nowiki>𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒</nowiki>]] <sup>([[User talk:খাত্তাব হাসান|inbox]] - [[Special:Contribs/খাত্তাব হাসান|contribs]])</sup> 06:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::And you had only pointed just the self publishing references in spite of having a lot of independent publishing references? And I think you are a sockpuppet of Aman.kumar.goel as it impressively matches your edit history and writing style. w[[Special:Contributions/202.134.10.138|202.134.10.138]] ([[User talk:202.134.10.138|talk]]) 16:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Fails GNG. I will make this easy — those who wish to keep this article, please provide the best seven<code>(Ceiling[68/10])</code>sources and I will offer an explanation about why they don't contribute to GNG. [[User:TrangaBellam|TrangaBellam]] ([[User talk:TrangaBellam|talk]]) 14:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Fails GNG. I will make this easy — those who wish to keep this article, please provide the best seven<code>(Ceiling[68/10])</code>sources and I will offer an explanation about why they don't contribute to GNG. [[User:TrangaBellam|TrangaBellam]] ([[User talk:TrangaBellam|talk]]) 14:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
:*ref no 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 13, 14, 15, 28, 30, 32, 42, 44, 45, 48, (mostly 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 13, 14) use [[Google Translate]] and [[Google Lens]]. I am not having time otherwise i have the ability to show the notibility.[[Special:Contributions/202.134.10.138|202.134.10.138]] ([[User talk:202.134.10.138|talk]]) 16:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
<s>:*ref no 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 13, 14, 15, 28, 30, 32, 42, 44, 45, 48, (mostly 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 13, 14) use [[Google Translate]] and [[Google Lens]]. I am not having time otherwise i have the ability to show the notibility.[[Special:Contributions/202.134.10.138|202.134.10.138]] ([[User talk:202.134.10.138|talk]]) 16:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)</s>
:*:I asked for seven; so, my analysis will be restricted to {{tq|Sources 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 13, 14}} as present [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Kalki_Avatar_and_Muhammad&direction=prev&oldid=1169525522#References this version] which stood at the time of your comment:
:*:I asked for seven; so, my analysis will be restricted to {{tq|Sources 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 13, 14}} as present [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Kalki_Avatar_and_Muhammad&direction=prev&oldid=1169525522#References this version] which stood at the time of your comment:
:*::'''Source 1''': "Human Resource Management Academic Research Society" is a journal that is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..) and more importantly, was in Beall's list before it was shut down. When anybody tries to cite the journal, we [[Template:Predatory open access source list|issue an alert about the poor quality of the source]] but that has not discouraged you or whoever added it.
:*::'''Source 1''': "Human Resource Management Academic Research Society" is a journal that is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..) and more importantly, was in Beall's list before it was shut down. When anybody tries to cite the journal, we [[Template:Predatory open access source list|issue an alert about the poor quality of the source]] but that has not discouraged you or whoever added it.
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:*::'''Source 13''': Why would ''Al-Idrak'', published by an eponymous research center in lahore, be considered as a rleiable source? This is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..) and has never been cited by any scholar in the Academe.
:*::'''Source 13''': Why would ''Al-Idrak'', published by an eponymous research center in lahore, be considered as a rleiable source? This is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..) and has never been cited by any scholar in the Academe.
:*::'''Source 14''': Why would انتظار موعود be a RS? This is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..), etc. [[User:TrangaBellam|TrangaBellam]] ([[User talk:TrangaBellam|talk]]) 19:27, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
:*::'''Source 14''': Why would انتظار موعود be a RS? This is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..), etc. [[User:TrangaBellam|TrangaBellam]] ([[User talk:TrangaBellam|talk]]) 19:27, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Aman.kumar.goel|Aman.kumar.goel]], please do not strike comments from editors you disagree on the basis of your own unproven "sock" allegation. Get a checker confirmation first.
:::Well, then give other (all other) references' explanations also. Don't leave anyone. If any of 68 has been missed, it will be a crime because only one referece can also establish the notability of an article. And how can you say [[World Islamic Sciences and Education University]] as a '''fringe Islamic university''' as it is apublic govt versity of a state own by Jordanian national prince [[Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad]]???? The Jordanian Journal of Islamic Studies is many times cited by google scholar [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22The+Jordanian+Journal+of+Islamic+Studies%22&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart]. And how can be ref 14 not reliable when it is in [[Noormags]] and how can [[Afrasiab Mehdi Hashmi]] in ref 2 can not be a from "a think-tank of any repute"? And [https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-oppo-rvo3&sxsrf=AB5stBhDTShBm9dx_44VponZ9DwwaQqwVA:1691611751991&q=Center+for+Global+and+Strategic+Studies,+Islamabad&tbm=bks&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA1szssNCAAxWfyDgGHWCFBIwQ0pQJegQIXxAB&biw=360&bih=668&dpr=2 see here] many estalished publishers used "Center for Global and Strategic Studies, Islamabad" as reliable source. And as for source 12, [[WP:RS]] says: "Reliable scholarship – Material such as an article, book, monograph, or research paper that has been vetted by the scholarly community is regarded as reliable, where the material has been published in reputable peer-reviewed sources or by well-regarded academic presses. Dissertations – Completed dissertations or theses written as part of the requirements for a doctorate, and which are publicly available (most via interlibrary loan or from Proquest), can be used but care should be exercised, as they are often, in part, primary sources. Some of them will have gone through a process of academic peer reviewing, of varying levels of rigor, but some will not. If possible, use theses that have been cited in the literature; supervised by recognized specialists in the field; or reviewed by independent parties. Dissertations in progress have not been vetted and are not regarded as published and are thus not reliable sources as a rule. Some theses are later published in the form of scholarly monographs or peer reviewed articles, and, if available, these are usually preferable to the original thesis as sources. Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence.". and that's what the ref 12 meets. And ref 13's author Hafiz Muhammad Naeem is in scopus.com. [https://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.uri?authorId=57224866546 see here]. And the writer for the ref 14 (Sayed Mohammad Rouhani) is in [[google scholar]]. [https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=_-QvBugAAAAJ&hl=en see here]. [[Special:Contributions/103.67.157.157|103.67.157.157]] ([[User talk:103.67.157.157|talk]]) 19:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
::::This AfD is getting out of hand on both sides of the issue. @[[User:Liz|Liz]]
::::--<span style="font-family:Futura">[[User:A. B.|A. B.]] <sup>([[User talk:A. B.|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/A. B.|contribs]] • [[Special:CentralAuth/A._B.|global count]])</sup></span> 11:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|A. B.}} The IP who is obsessionally badgering here is evading his block on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/103.67.158.86 this proxy IP]. Stop assuming bad faith. You have been already warned by me right above on 02:02, 5 August 2023. '''[[User:Aman.kumar.goel|Aman Kumar Goel]]''' <sup>(''[[User talk:Aman.kumar.goel|Talk]]'')</sup> 12:13, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/103.67.157.133 This IP] is now blocked again. '''[[User:Aman.kumar.goel|Aman Kumar Goel]]''' <sup>(''[[User talk:Aman.kumar.goel|Talk]]'')</sup> 12:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' No evidence of notability. '''[[User:J ansari|<span style="background:#5d9731; color:white;padding:2px;">J. Ansari</span>]] [[User talk:J ansari|<span style="background:#1049AB; color:white; padding:2px;">Talk</span>]]''' 17:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' No evidence of notability. '''[[User:J ansari|<span style="background:#5d9731; color:white;padding:2px;">J. Ansari</span>]] [[User talk:J ansari|<span style="background:#1049AB; color:white; padding:2px;">Talk</span>]]''' 17:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
{{clear}}
{{reflist-talk}}
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''<!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>

Latest revision as of 08:18, 22 September 2023

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. "Keep" voters do not provide a sufficient rationale, particularly when it comes to providing reliable secondary sources. Given the history of the article, SALTing seems appropriate to me. Drmies (talk) 12:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kalki Avatar and Muhammad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Repeated recreation despite many discussions closing with delete.

The subject still fails WP:NBOOK. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 02:32, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Where are the sources? There are none. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 18:35, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:36, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aman.kumar.goel: I am not happy to see that you proposed for deletion without reading the article. Sources are added to the article itself. You can watch this video for Zakir Naik's topic. Although many have criticized him, but you can see this blog of Asif Mohiuddin, if you know Bengali language. ‍~ 𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒 (inbox - contribs) 05:12, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously the subject fails WP:GNG because it is lacking significant coverage in reliable sources. There are a number of subjects (such as YouTube channels) that have gained popularity in local spheres but they haven't recieved significant coverage from reliable sources that are independent of the subject. CharlesWain (talk) 08:36, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@CharlesWain I don't understand which GNG you read. If a book creates a new argument that is fundamentally used in a religious debate on that topic for the next 50+ years; How is that book not notable?
And the references here include Milli Gadget articles, books by Ziaur Rahman Azmi, Afrasiab Mehdi Hashmi and two other professors. I don't understand, are you considering these as YouTube channels or have you not seen the references at all? ‍~ 𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒 (inbox - contribs) 15:50, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your sources are only making a passing mention or they are discussing a broader subject. Read WP:GNG properly. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 02:05, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aman.kumar.goel Ziaur Rahman Azmi wrote the book about the similarities and differences between the religions of India (Hind). There he criticized the book for 5 pages. is this just a passing mantion? Another thing I found about this book today is that, this book was translated in bengali by the former Paschimbanga Bangla Akademi president Asitkumar Bandyopadhyay.[4]
Another complementary point to the book's notabilty is its misinterpreted (alleged by many Hindu pandit and I read a book by ISKCON Bangladesh about this) in Hindu scriptures. Doesn't that prove the notability? (Off topic: Dada, please mention me while answering. I'm actually not very active on English Wikipedia.) ‍~ 𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒 (inbox - contribs) 17:11, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Muhammad in Hindu scriptures". Milli Gazette. Archived from the original on 2019-01-07. Retrieved 2014-11-06.
  2. ^ الرحمن, أعظمى، محمد ضياء (2008). دراسات في اليهودية والمسيحية وأديان الهند والبشارات في كتب الهندوس (in Arabic). مكتبة الرشد،. pp. 703–708.
  3. ^ Malik, Dr Ahmad; Mehdi Hashmi Qureshi, Afrasiab (1 January 2022). END TIMES (What could happen in the world tomorrow). (Center for Global and Strategic Studies, Islamabad). pp. 13, 274, 275. ISBN 9789699837142. Retrieved 1 September 2022.
  4. ^ Basu, Anjali (Jan 2019). Samsad Bangali Charitabidhan (in Bengali) (Second ed.). Kolkata: Sahitya Samsad. pp. 48–50. ISBN 978-81-7955-292-6.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: year (link)
Still fails WP:SIGCOV. Dympies (talk) 14:26, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: A source analysis table would be very helpful at this point in the discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:55, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Question - I would like to ask a question out of respect for those who are asking for deletion: When a book appears as the main subject of two notable religious debates, notable religious figures review and criticize or in some cases praise the book in their respective books or in the media; So why is the book not notable? Because the reviewer's book is in Arabic, Sanskrit or some such language? or anything else? Although I don't normally participate in AFD. But a few days ago, besides participating in the AFD of Ulipur.com, I also participated in this AFD. So maybe, I'm not understanding the point correctly. ‍~ 𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒 (inbox - contribs) 06:02, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aman.kumar.goel, please don't forget the steps listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#After nominating: Notify interested projects and editors. Thanks,

--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 03:42, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@A. B.: There is no such requirement. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 00:37, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're right -- it is not technically a requirement but it is recommended and requested by the AfD procedure. It's unusual that a nominator doesn't do this. It's highly unusual when they refuse to do it. This leaves others wondering what's up with the nominator.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 00:53, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then it is your own issue that you are not assuming good faith. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 02:02, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, there is a lot of established reliable source here including Afrasiab Mehdi Hashmi, former Pakistani High comissioner, Zakir Naik, Ali Gomaa, Ali Unal, Ziaur Rahman Azmi, Asitkumar Bandhopaddhay Abubakar Muhammad Zakaria etc. and most of the sources discuss the matter in detail, including the published journal articles given in the article from Middle East, Pakistan, Iran and Indonesia from their renowned national leading universities, also there are references from lots of established news articles and international books, so it clearly passes WP:RS, WP:NB and GNG. But in all the article, there should be also added hindu point of views more to make the article more balanced, because the book and the topic is also very familiar in Hindu communities when it comes to the hindu muslim dialogue, and most of the Hindus gives different explanations of these discussions, their referencial point of views should be also added.  Masum Ibn Musa  Conversation 10:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:SPAM, blatantly promotional. — Preceding unsigned comment added by UrielAcosta (talkcontribs)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Still hoping for a source analysis.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz: Sources were already analyzed. None of them fulfills the requirement of WP:GNG. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 05:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
where have you given or discussed the detailed analysis of the sources pointing them specifically? Show. The article meets WP:SIGCOV of WP:GNG, and besides when SNG is met, GNG is not needed, and according to WP:SNG of WP:NB, and to the first 66 of the given 67 sources in reference, the article meets the criteria 1, as this book "has been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This can include published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries, bestseller lists, and reviews. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book.", criteria 3, as this book "has been considered by reliable sources to have made a significant contribution to a notable or significant motion picture, or other art form, or event or political or religious movement.", criteria 4, as the book "is, or has been, the subject of instruction at two or more schools, colleges, universities or post-graduate programs in any particular country.". 43.245.120.228 (talk) 10:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • But @Liz there are 68 citations / footnotes for this article! Please don't ask for a source analysis again.
I'm here grudgingly because this article is listed in Category:AfD debates relisted 3 or more times
I machine translated and analyzed a few of the refs and did some searches of my own. In the interest of not making others eyes bleed with a wall of text, I will not post them here. See Wikipedia Talk:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad.
Assessment: this book is notable but it's been superseded by a later book Ved Prakash Upadhyay wrote. Upadhyay's books, as I understand them, attempt to find some common theological overlap between Hinduism and Islam. This work is polarizing partly because adherents of both faiths seem to see this as a long stretch. It's also polarizing because South Asia is violently polarized anyway; Upadhyay wants to calm this. Someone in a previous AfD called these views "fringe" and I can see why; I'm not saying they are but I can see how most South Asians might see them this way. That doesn't mean they're wrong; it's a matter of faith. Nevertheless, I think they are notable if you sift through enough stuff; see the talk page.
Merge with Ved Prakash Upadhyay. Notwithstanding the technical notability of this book, I recommend merging its article to the author's article. This is because the refs I read tended to lump this in with the later book and Upadhyay in general. Do we want an article on this book and the later book and the author repeating the same arguments? It just seems to make the most sense to put all this together in one good, comprehensive article. It's less susceptible to POV forking, too.
That's 2 hours Wikipedia owes me.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 03:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ved Prakash Upadhyay. The same citations here apply there also. Upadhyay's article has more refs and honors cited than this book.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 03:11, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not a single source satisfies WP:GNG. You believe this self-published source (as stated by the website itself) "counts towards notability". In any case, your own poor analysis fail to suggest any notability. Editorkamran (talk) 06:15, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Editorkamran You answared about only a single source. What about Ziaur Rahman Azmi's book? why is this not notable? And what about the work of Asitkumar Bandyopadhyay, Is his work was not notable? He was the president of Paschimbanga Bangla Akademi, who translated it and added an appendix chapter. ‍~ 𝕂𝕒𝕡𝕦𝕕𝕒𝕟 ℙ𝕒ş𝕒 (inbox - contribs) 06:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Fails GNG. I will make this easy — those who wish to keep this article, please provide the best seven(Ceiling[68/10])sources and I will offer an explanation about why they don't contribute to GNG. TrangaBellam (talk) 14:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

:*ref no 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 13, 14, 15, 28, 30, 32, 42, 44, 45, 48, (mostly 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 13, 14) use Google Translate and Google Lens. I am not having time otherwise i have the ability to show the notibility.202.134.10.138 (talk) 16:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I asked for seven; so, my analysis will be restricted to Sources 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 13, 14 as present this version which stood at the time of your comment:
    Source 1: "Human Resource Management Academic Research Society" is a journal that is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..) and more importantly, was in Beall's list before it was shut down. When anybody tries to cite the journal, we issue an alert about the poor quality of the source but that has not discouraged you or whoever added it.
    Source 2: A publication by Center for Global and Strategic Studies, Islamabad. There is not the slightest of indication that this is a think-tank of any repute.
    Source 3: The Jordanian Journal of Islamic Studies is a journal that is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..) and is published by a fringe Islamic universty.
    Source 4: PalArch's Journal of Archaeology of Egypt / Egyptology was hijacked. C. 2018, it was transferred to Open Access Text Ltd., a known predatory publisher — again on Beall's list and our black-list — and subsequently removed from Scopus at the end of 2019. Need I say more?
    Source 12: You claim that undergraduate theses are reliable? Or do you think that I am stupid enough to be misled because I cannot read Indonesian?
    Source 13: Why would Al-Idrak, published by an eponymous research center in lahore, be considered as a rleiable source? This is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..) and has never been cited by any scholar in the Academe.
    Source 14: Why would انتظار موعود be a RS? This is not indexed in any bibliogaphic database of repute (Scopus/WoS/..), etc. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:27, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aman.kumar.goel, please do not strike comments from editors you disagree on the basis of your own unproven "sock" allegation. Get a checker confirmation first.
This AfD is getting out of hand on both sides of the issue. @Liz
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 11:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@A. B.: The IP who is obsessionally badgering here is evading his block on this proxy IP. Stop assuming bad faith. You have been already warned by me right above on 02:02, 5 August 2023. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 12:13, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This IP is now blocked again. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 12:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ IJ-ARBASS 2017, Vol. 7, Special Issue – Islam and Contemporary Issues) ISSN 2222-6990
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.