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== Excessive use of primary sources ==
{{WikiProject Missouri}}


This article relies far too heavily on primary sources, introducing bias the author has towards themselves, so I have added the primary sources template. [[User:Shidouuu|Shidouuu]] ([[User talk:Shidouuu|talk]]) 00:46, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
==Personal Life==
This article seems to be more about his professional work which I believe should be addressed in a seperate article. This should pertain to facts as a person. For instance was he related to Andrew Carnegie in anyway? Facts about the person and have a link about his professional work directed to a seperate article about that

[[User:66.99.1.28|66.99.1.28]] 16:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)Eric

:I disagree. The article is about who Dale Carnegie was and what he did (until we get to the advert for the wretched course anyway). This is standard for Wikipedia Biographical articles. Information regarding his personal life is absent only because nobody has added it. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 23:29, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

==Advert Tag==

Recently all material relating to the Dale Carnegie course was removed by an editor who considered it unencyclopedic. I have restored it, but am seeking a consensus for what to do with it long term. Please could I have some opinions: is info re the course unencyclopedic, in which case it should be removed? If it is encyclopedic, is it relevant to this article about Dale Carnegie, or should it have its own article? My opinion is that the course is an undeniable aspect of Western culture, and if there can be articles about videogames then there should at least be info on the Dale Carnegie course. I think we should keep the info, and consider splitting it into its own article. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 21:17, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Response:

Thank you for responding nicely. I would like to find a good alternative. Posting info about his course sounds a little out of place for an enyclopedia. It almost sounds like we are being marketed to. Hopefully we can work something out.

:I have put a tag on the page to invite further contibutions to this discussion. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 00:39, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

- I don't think the information about the course reads like an advertisement. It simply describes what happens in the course. However, the Books section feels pretty biased to me. Half the books there are described in a tone that sounds like it's straight out of the publishers' descriptions.

:So it reads like an advertisement. You are getting information about the books and the course in the tone of the books and course's content. I think it's right on the target for the intent of the courses. Frankly, I think the whole Carnegie stuff is just an early attempt at mind control or manipulative control over others. Besides that, I hate somebody using my first name at the start or end of every other sentence and always seeing people smiling. It makes me edgy.--[[User:TGC55|TGC55]] 00:57, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

::I can see how you could think that, and I still feel it is useful to have the information about the course, because it is one of the major things known about him. --Bear Eagleson 02:40, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

===Removal of advert tag===

I would like to remove the advert tag now. Are there any objections? [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 02:35, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the advert tag now. However, this article will need to be watched closely as it seems to be a particular target for advert-like text. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 18:19, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

:Where do I get a corespondence course on writing ad copy? This manipulation thing through written words sounds like the wave of the future. --[[User:TGC55|TGC55]] 00:57, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

===Update on this discussion===

The above discussion refers to a revision of this article that subsequently been edited many times. The Dale Carnegie Course section of this article now is very advert-like, and no longer includes a "criticisms" sub-section. I fully support the inclusion of the present advert tag, and would be happy to see the whole section on the course deleted or replaced. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 01:01, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

== Unfair criticism? ==

Having taken the course myself, I was surprised by the "manipulative" comment regarding holding a genuine interest in other people. My instructor went out of her way to focus on genuine interest, not fake interest, because A) It's not the right thing to do and B) People can tell the difference usually anyways. My personal experience has taught me that there's very few people I don't have a genuine interest in, because I like hearing other people's stories.

Honestly genuine interest is not a bad thing at all. It forces you to listen to other people more and people really do appreciate the positive attention (and often return the favor!).

'''Reply''': Whether it's a fair criticism or not is not what is being reported here; the article simply states that it's something that critics say. Feel free to add some qualifying information to the article if you like. However, as an aside, I too have done the course and my instructor also stressed the importance of genuine interest. My only concern would be that there was no discussion on what to do if you cannot foster such an interest.

'''Comment''': I was very disappointed to find such a promotion on an encyclopedia page. Being a long time reader of Dale Carnegie, I believe that information regarding the training course should be separated from the Dale Carnegie article; and that Carnegie's biography should be expanded. (It is irrelevant, but I was also surprised to find that there is no information about Dale Carnegie himself on the Dale Carnegie Training website.)
Nikita N. 19:33, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

: I'm interested to know why you call it a "promotion". The information on the course is balanced imho, does not contain any direct advocacy, and has a criticism section - in fact other readers seem to be suggesting that the sections on the course are, if anything, too negative (though this is not something I would agree with). It could certainly be moved into its own article - in fact I have been considering doing this myself - but I doubt that would address the original objection you raise here. I agree that there is certainly room for more biographical information here. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 21:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


:'''Comment''' -- The review of the course seemed even handed. I think Dale Carnegie himself is worth being described in the encylopedia. I came to the site looking for more informaton about him, since I am reading one of his books. I am not particularly interested in the class. It seems this section should be shortened, with more emphasis on his biography. Mike

'''Comment''': Promotional links can be useful, and I trust the readers of Dale are an enlightened crew who would not loose sight of the purpose of Wikipedia. For example, try as I might I cannot find a Chinese copy of "How to stop worrying and start living" for my poor dear old mother even though the book was suppose to have been translated into many different languages. I therefore appeal to the nobler motive of Dale's readers and challange you all to find out where it could be. Alas Dale's homesite have been neglected, which would never have happened if he was still alive. Would the winner of that quest please post the result here for the benefit of International readers ? kencheung26@hotmail.com

'''Comment''' : I believe that the Dale Carnegie training is a good course. I myself have taken it and truly believe that it works. At least it has helped me besides some of my other friends.[[User:Pure-intellect|Pure-intellect]] ([[User talk:Pure-intellect|talk]]) 17:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

{{Expand|date=August 2007}}
'''Comment''': I suggest that a new review of the course be written. [[User:69.143.80.200|69.143.80.200]] 03:25, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

==Official word on death==

I dont understand what does this mean??

"The official word from Dale Carnegie & Associates, Inc is that he died of Hodgkin's disease on November 1, 1955."<br/>
Is this official word included in every biography of a person who is dead.There seems to an hidden effort to give credence to some urban myth. There is this reference from NYTimes articles which should suffice to remove any doubts I guess:<br />
http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/1124.html<br />
Even if there is a controversy, why doesnt the article discuss it in detail rather than just making a sarcastic comment like that.
:I made reference to the suicide rumours when I wrote the original text, but the suicide rumours have since been deleted from the article, so now it reads strangely.
:The link you supplied doesn't specifically say what Carnegie died of, and the only source I have found for the Hodgkin's Disease information is though conversations I have had with representatives of Dale Carnegie and Associates, Inc. Now, this corporation that makes money on the name of the late Mr Carnegie may or may not be the most reliable source of information, so I did not present the information as fact. I have attempted to be as honest as I can in providing information on Dale Carnegie's death, which there had been considerable demand for. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 22:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

someone keeps editing the suicide rumor even though it has been stated before and refuted that it is only a rumor and no hard evidence to support this. I will find out exactly who is editing these and get to the bottom of it. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mercury888|Mercury888]] ([[User talk:Mercury888|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mercury888|contribs]]) 14:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Original Research Tag==

The Criticism section now reads like an argument, with both sides citing "some critics" or "proponents" more than real people. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 19:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Aye, you’re right. What would a discussion be without proponents and critics? The comment has been moved to a better place (in the Dale Carnegie Course section). [[User:Marksez|Marksez]] 16:55, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

What is the significance of “the philosophy of responsibility assumption”? After reading the definition at the link of what responsibility assumption means, I don’t see a connection or understand what the nature of the criticism related to it would be. [[User:Marksez|Marksez]] 17:28, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


==Did he commit suicide? ==
While I personally think this is a rumor, having read his books and had a reflection of his personality, however, it is appreciated that facts about this rumor gets explained. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/82.194.62.230|82.194.62.230]] ([[User talk:82.194.62.230|talk]]) 15:39, 12 May 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
:The rumour was reported as a rumour in the article; but was removed, no doubt per some policy or other. The information on his death included in the article is there because I asked a Dale Carnegie course instructor. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 05:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
::...which probably means it should be removed on the grounds of [[WP:OR|Original Research]]... [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] 05:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

and someone keeps adding in the rumor in the main Wikipedia article even though there is no source to back it up. Need the new IP tracking system to see who this guy is. Please share it in my talk page - mine is outdated. Thanks. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mercury888|Mercury888]] ([[User talk:Mercury888|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mercury888|contribs]]) 14:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Fair use rationale for Image:Picturecarnegie.jpg==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
'''[[:Image:Picturecarnegie.jpg]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].

Please go to [[:Image:Picturecarnegie.jpg|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline |fair use rationale]]. Using one of the templates at [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline]] is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Missing rationale2 -->

[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] ([[User talk:BetacommandBot|talk]]) 00:46, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

==Suicide==

There is more reason to believe he died of suicide than not. The NY article is a nicety provided, no doubt, by the Dale Carnegie Institution as would any institution do for its founder or a senior officer. Further, the DCI makes its money by selling the life philosophy of a man who was claimed to have a well balanced perspective. Please include further reserach and limit the Dale Carnegie Institute's spin on this issue

response: you say there is more reason to believe that he died of suicide than not? This is, as far as I know, an unsubstantiated claim. Please, I implore you to please provide further research on the nature of your argument. There is, as you mentioned, a nice NY article to support my argument. It is the case that Irving Tressler, a satirist for Dale, did commit suicide. You can check this fact yourself (although it is not yet on Wikipedia). So my understanding that Dale was confused for Irving is at a least logical claim. It may be the case that the suicide was covered up by the Dale Carnegie Institution as you say. But can you prove this with evidence? It seems more like it is you who is spinning the truth, because I have articles of note and you have opinions. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.17.233.99|75.17.233.99]] ([[User talk:75.17.233.99|talk]]) 17:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I have moved this conversation to a new section; previously it was at the top of the talk page amongst the project boxen.
:The fact of the matter is that no Wikipedia editor has yet found a reliable source for the cause of Carnegie's death, either by suicide or disease. That is why the information presented in the article is poorly sourced, and the wording in the article deliberately attributes the Carnegie Inc version of events to Carnegie Inc. [[User:BreathingMeat|BreathingMeat]] ([[User talk:BreathingMeat|talk]]) 23:04, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

:Based on what BreathingMeat has said, Can't the Wikipedia article at least mention that the cause of death is still disputed, and that there is an unsubstantiated claim that Dale Carnegie committed suicide? That way, readers will know that there is such a myth and that there is not yet a reliable source to support the cause of Dale Carnegie's death, as you have said. At least that much I feel should be on the page. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.17.233.99|75.17.233.99]] ([[User talk:75.17.233.99|talk]]) 00:29, 12 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== How to pronounce his surname? ==

I have heard several versions. Also that his name could be pronounced more than one way? Could someone give example of correct pronouncing? Thanks [[Special:Contributions/84.16.123.194|84.16.123.194]] ([[User talk:84.16.123.194|talk]]) 15:42, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

== Recollected History of Dale Carnegie ==

I grew up in northwest Missouri and was told early on that the first teacher of the one room country school I attended had been taught by Amanda Harbison. The community celebrated the 50th anniversary of the school in 1932 or 1933. Amanda Harbison Carnagey was the honored guest. A celebration and basket dinner were held on the grounds.
When I was in the 5th grade (I believe)and attending that same country school, an unannounced visitor came to the door. He introduced himself as Dale Carnegie and was in the county visiting sites of his mother's life. The prior Christmas my father had received his newly published book,"How To Win Friends and Influence People" and I had read some of it. Before Mr. Carnegie left the school he placed his autograph and the date on the wall between the door and the heating stove. The autograph was never painted over while the school remained. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/66.178.139.174|66.178.139.174]] ([[User talk:66.178.139.174|talk]]) 04:47, 26 May 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

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Excessive use of primary sources

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This article relies far too heavily on primary sources, introducing bias the author has towards themselves, so I have added the primary sources template. Shidouuu (talk) 00:46, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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