Jump to content

Talk:Fula language: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous edit
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
Halaqah (talk | contribs)
7,742 edits
Cewbot (talk | contribs)
Bots
7,170,551 edits
m Maintain {{WPBS}} and vital articles: 2 WikiProject templates. Merge {{VA}} into {{WPBS}}. Keep majority rating "Start" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 2 same ratings as {{WPBS}} in {{WP Languages}}, {{AfricaProject}}.
 
(22 intermediate revisions by 15 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{talkheader}}
{{WikiProjectBannerShell |1=
{{WP Languages|class=Start }}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=Start|vital=yes|1=
{{WikiProject Languages}}
{{AfricaProject|class=Start|importance=High|Mauritania=yes|Senegal=yes|Mali=yes|Guinea=yes|Burkina Faso=yes|Niger=yes|Nigeria=yes|Cameroon=yes|Gambia=yes|Chad=yes|Sierra Leone=yes|Benin=yes|Guinea-Bissau=yes|Sudan=yes|Central African Republic=yes|CI=yes| Ghana=yes|Togo=yes|Gambia-importance=Mid }}
{{WikiProject Africa|importance=High|Mauritania=yes|Senegal=yes|Mali=yes|Guinea=yes|Burkina Faso=yes|Niger=yes|Nigeria=yes|Cameroon=yes|Gambia=yes|Chad=yes|Sierra Leone=yes|Benin=yes|Guinea-Bissau=yes|Guinea-Bissau-importance=top|Sudan=yes|Central African Republic=yes|CI=yes| Ghana=yes|Togo=yes|Gambia-importance=Mid }}
}}
}}
{{Archives |auto=yes |search=yes |title=[[Help:Archiving a talk page|Archives]] ([[{{#titleparts:{{TALKPAGENAME}}|1}}/Archive index|index]])}}
I decided to name this entry "Fula language". "Fula" appears to be the typical English language term used by linguists. (Peul maybe more common with French linguists?) Fufulde and Pulaar apparently only refer to certain dialects. I used "language" rather than "languages" as a couple sources state the dialects are generally mutually comprehensible. (I hate mucking around in the dialect vs. language morass.) It seems to generally be treated as one language.
{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn
|target=Talk:Fula language/Archive index
|mask=Talk:Fula language/Archive <#>
|leading_zeros=0
|indexhere=yes
}}
{{reqmapin|Africa}}


__TOC__
There seem to be more alternate names and some complicated language vs. ethnic group stuff (non-Fula ethnic groups speaking varieties of Fula as their native languages and such).


⚫
== The relatedness of the Fula language to the Serer language. ==
There's a lot of room for expansion; I'll tryh to get to a library in the next few days. I wanted to get a stub up quickly and fix up the various links to Fula (under various names.--[[User:Chrajohn|Chris Johnson]] 00:36, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)


⚫
"Fula is related to [[Serer language]]" <ref>Sapir, David, 1971. "West Atlantic: an inventory of the languages, their noun-class systems and consonant alternation". In Sebeok, ed, ''Current trends in linguistics,'' 7: ''linguistics in sub-Saharan Africa''. Mouton, 45–112</ref> all attempts to mention this on this articled were permanently deleted. Whoever is making claims in the [[Serer language]] article about the relatedness of Serer and Fula should also mention that in the Fula language article. I see no justifiable reason why the relatedness of the two languages is mentioned by the same author in the Serer language article but totally left out and permanently deleted every time it is mentioned in the Fula language article. [[User:Tamsier|Tamsier]] ([[User talk:Tamsier|talk]]) 16:36, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
: I've been wondering when someone would write this. Thanks! I look forward to seeing it expand... - [[User:Mustafaa|Mustafaa]] 05:38, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)


⚫
===Notes===
== Official status? ==
⚫
{{reflist}}


⚫
== Undue section template on infobox ==
This article says that the language has official status in 9 countries. Yet the
[http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html CIA World Factbook]
seems to disagree. If you look up the language section for each of these
countries, they all show an official language (two for Cameroon), but in every
case this is French (6 countries), English (3), or Arabic (1).


⚫
This template has been added in the infobox. The reason being the infobox suggests some sort of superiority of one language over another. Attempts to resolve this issue has been permanently deleted. [[User:Tamsier|Tamsier]] ([[User talk:Tamsier|talk]]) 17:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps in some countries the official language isn't widely spoken and the
⚫
::U have placed an inappropriate template. Please familiarize yourself with Wiki template codes. You completely messed up the page. And always use the talk page to explain the nature of the Undue section. (with SOURCES) It is not a case of your say-so. If the thing is a problem explain why here. No need to edit war with experienced editors. I have corrected the error and put back your NPOV notice. You will however have to STATE why that notice was placed on the article. What is wrong with this page, if you cannot do so then the tags will have to be removed. Do not put tags for sections in info box.--[[User:Halaqah|Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ]] ([[User talk:Halaqah|talk]]) 18:03, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Factbook shows the word "official" only for the purpose of explaining why it's
listed at all, without meaning to imply that other languages are not also
official. But I find it hard to believe that they would have done this for
all 9 countries, which makes me suspicious of this part of the Wikipedia
article. I know practically nothing about African languages myself, though,
let alone their official status. I just suggest that some checking would
be desirable.


== Noun classes & comment on standards ==
[[User:66.96.28.244|66.96.28.244]] 06:23, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


Couple of items on the form of the class indicators, and quick comment re future of standards for languages like Fula. First, removed the leading apostrophe from the "o" since that is never used in writing. By convention, initial glottals (even if pronounced as such) in Fula are never marked. Second, last I checked, it was general usage not to use the "[[Eng (letter)|eng]]" before "g" for the prenasalized form, such that one would write "ng-" rather than "ŋg." Variant spellings of geminate forms sometimes use the eng before the "ng" per ''jaŋngude'' rather than the more common ''janngude'' (to read, study). I'm beginning to think that there may be utility in a new regional conference on updating orthography standards for cross-border languages to facilitate use of language data (for development of apps etc. in the languages). Minor differences such as these crop up more or less organically for various reasons, but arguably do more harm for regional use of regional languages like Fula, than good.--[[User:A12n|A12n]] ([[User talk:A12n|talk]]) 05:21, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
The [http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html CIA World Factbook for the US] shows no official language, but rather just lists a section "Languages". While the [http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sg.html CIA World Factbook for Senegal] shows the same, just a heading entitled "Languages", of which "Pulaar" is indicated (which is given as per this article, as an alternate name of the Fula Language).


===V===
Why do I bring up the US situation. I'm certain you're already likely aware that the US does not have an official federal language, although some states do have an official language, or languages. New Mexico is such a state, where both English and Spanish are official languages of the state. Thus, all political and governmental material must be made accessible to speakers of both languages. So, "Official" status is reasonably difficult to pin down precisely. I imagine that determining the true official status of the Fula Language in these regions would require quite exhaustive fact checking, and may be unfeasible.
Is '''v''' used in some cases for loanwords???
: Formally, no, at least in my experience. It is not a sound normally distinguished in the language, and is typically replaced by "w" in loans. OTOH, it might certainly appear in what people write when using loanwords.--[[User:A12n|A12n]] ([[User talk:A12n|talk]]) 19:31, 3 September 2017 (UTC)


== Other scripts ... or orthographies ==


In the subsection ''Other scripts'', appears this sentence: "In the 1960s Mali and Senegal each invented their own scripts to write Fula; in the 1970s Nigeria invented its own script too." Not clear what this refers to, unless what is meant are the slightly differing orthographic conventions for the standard extended-Latin script (namely the choice of ɲ or ñ for the palatal n, or the ƴ or 'y for the ejective y).--[[User:A12n|A12n]] ([[User talk:A12n|talk]]) 19:37, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
Fula is not an official language of any country; it's a [[national language]] of several, but that's not the same thing. - [[User:Mustafaa|Mustafaa]] 22:12, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


== Noun classes, again ==
Mustafaa is right. I would add that the terms "official" and "national" are often used very imprecisely with regard to languages, even in some ostensibly authoritative literature. [[User:A12n|A12n]] 00:27, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


Removed "man" from the list, as it's not a noun class. It was added 9 September 2015 by 109.128.186.122, but not clear what the source was. Also removed "lekkol" (school) as example from "kol." The latter class is rarely used - i.e., one or two nouns only in this class. Loan words like lekkol typically fall in the "o" class.--[[User:A12n|A12n]] ([[User talk:A12n|talk]]) 01:48, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
== Strategy for pages on Fula language? ==
I wrote something on another corner of the Wikipedia that refers to the Fula language page and potential for other pages relating to varieties of the language. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Languages#Nigerian_Fulfulde_language] --[[User:A12n|A12n]] 01:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:See [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Languages/Fula]] --[[User:A12n|A12n]] 01:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
:I have posted a question there about which term to use, ''Fula'' or ''Fulfulde''. &mdash; [[User:Mark Dingemanse|mark]] [[User Talk:Mark Dingemanse|&#9998;]] 19:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


==Tonal?==
== Speakers? ==
Is it a tonal language? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 20:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


:No, it is not a tonal language.--[[User:A12n|A12n]] ([[User talk:A12n|talk]]) 23:55, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The article doesn't say how many people speak it, whether nativly or as a second/foreign language. Please add that information.--[[User:Solomonfromfinland|Solomonfromfinland]] ([[User talk:Solomonfromfinland|talk]]) 12:55, 3 December 2019 (UTC)


== Alphabets & orthographies ==
== How are you in fula ==


How are you in fula [[Special:Contributions/212.60.95.216|212.60.95.216]] ([[User talk:212.60.95.216|talk]]) 22:29, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
I made some modifications to the section on writing systems and created a new article on [[Fula orthographies]] to facilitate expanded treatment.--[[User:A12n|A12n]] ([[User talk:A12n|talk]]) 23:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

== Ejective y? ==
I was under the impression from p14 of the textbook here: http://ibamba.net/pular/default.htm that the "funky y" it describes, the Ƴ/ƴ, is also an implosive, a palatal implosive following on the pattern from the implosive Ɓ/ɓ, Ɗ/ɗ. I'm only a beginner without any audio samples, so I can't tell for sure, but I just wanted to check this out with anyone else who might be surer. Cheers.
[[User:Candrodor|Candrodor]] ([[User talk:Candrodor|talk]]) 22:55, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
:As far as I understand, [[Ƴ|Ƴ/ƴ]] is technically not an implosive like [[Ɓ|Ɓ/ɓ]] or [[Ɗ|Ɗ/ɗ]], though I also have heard it described as an implosive. I've heard it compared to the [[Hausa language|Hausa]] [[Ƙ|Ƙ/ƙ]] ([[Velar ejective]]) as an "ejective" consonant - certainly from its pronunciation now that I'm more familiar with the latter, it seems more ejective than implosive. At least as I understand the terms. The article on [[Ƴ|Ƴ/ƴ]] describes it as a [[palatalization|palatalized]] [[glottal stop]].--[[User:A12n|A12n]] ([[User talk:A12n|talk]]) 17:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

== Description of features of the language ==

I've moved some information from "Classification" to a new section just below it called "Description." This is still very simple. My thought with this article is that it can describe the general features of the language, and link out to two different kinds of articles: (1) Articles on the variant forms (languages as described by Ethnologue, dialects by some others), which can focus on particularities in each variant rather than duplicating material; and (2) articles on specific features of the language such as noun classes and infixes, which may also have comparative tables by language/dialect/variant. --[[User:A12n|A12n]] ([[User talk:A12n|talk]]) 00:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

== Fula Wikipedia ==

Not directly about this article, but can someone look at http://ff.wikipedia.org/ and tell me if the current state of the article is actually in Fula? It looks like spam about Kenyan elections and probably should be reverted back a few months, but I don't have the language facility to be sure. Thanks! -- [[User:Mscuthbert|Myke Cuthbert]] <small>[[User_talk:Mscuthbert|(talk)]]</small> 18:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

As is stated in the article, there could be as many as seven! different versions on some articles, what is described here is something like Chinese in West Africa there are so many different spoken varieties in chinese also. [[Special:Contributions/80.186.55.176|80.186.55.176]] ([[User talk:80.186.55.176|talk]]) 19:59, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== To Kwamikagami please remove Serer from this article ==

It is evident that you have added Fula-Serer in both the [[Serer-Sine]] language article and [[Fula language]] article. That was after I've removed them both. Not only is Serer the progentitor of Fula, the Fula just like the [[Wolof]] tend to borrow wherever they settle. Fula may be similar to Serer just like Wolof may be similar to Serer with Serer as the "root" (see [[Serer people]] this issue has been addressed there) but Serer is not Fula and has nothing to do with Fula and vice-versa. Please remove "Fula" from the [[Serer-Sine]] infobox and remove "Serer" from the [[Fula language]] infobox. Further, to put Fula before Serer (i.e. Fula-Serer) in both infoboxes appears rather patronising and implies that the Serer language derives from Fula when in fact it is the other way round. I know perhaps that was not your original intention but that's what it implies. Please remove them both. Thank you.
[[User:Tamsier|Tamsier]] ([[User talk:Tamsier|talk]]) 02:43, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, Kwami is quite correct. Linguists are in complete agreement that Fula, Serer, and Wolof is a tight little group of close-related languages. --[[User:Taivo|Taivo]] ([[User talk:Taivo|talk]]) 13:48, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

:"Not only is Serer the progentitor of Fula [it] has nothing to do with Fula". You're contradicting yourself.
:Please provide a single reliable ref that Fula descends from Serer.
:As for them being related, pick up any ref on African languages. Or the sources I provided. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 21:04, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

⚫
== The relatedness of the Fula language to the Serer language. ==

⚫
"Fula is related to [[Serer language]]" <ref>Sapir, David, 1971. "West Atlantic: an inventory of the languages, their noun-class systems and consonant alternation". In Sebeok, ed, ''Current trends in linguistics,'' 7: ''linguistics in sub-Saharan Africa''. Mouton, 45–112</ref> all attempts to mention this on this articled were permanently deleted. Whoever is making claims in the [[Serer language]] article about the relatedness of Serer and Fula should also mention that in the Fula language article. I see no justifiable reason why the relatedness of the two languages is mentioned by the same author in the Serer language article but totally left out and permanently deleted every time it is mentioned in the Fula language article. [[User:Tamsier|Tamsier]] ([[User talk:Tamsier|talk]]) 16:36, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

⚫
===Notes===
⚫
{{reflist}}

⚫
== Undue section template on infobox ==

⚫
This template has been added in the infobox. The reason being the infobox suggests some sort of superiority of one language over another. Attempts to resolve this issue has been permanently deleted. [[User:Tamsier|Tamsier]] ([[User talk:Tamsier|talk]]) 17:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
⚫
::U have placed an inappropriate template. Please familiarize yourself with Wiki template codes. You completely messed up the page. And always use the talk page to explain the nature of the Undue section. (with SOURCES) It is not a case of your say-so. If the thing is a problem explain why here. No need to edit war with experienced editors. I have corrected the error and put back your NPOV notice. You will however have to STATE why that notice was placed on the article. What is wrong with this page, if you cannot do so then the tags will have to be removed. Do not put tags for sections in info box.--[[User:Halaqah|Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ]] ([[User talk:Halaqah|talk]]) 18:03, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 04:49, 9 January 2024

The relatedness of the Fula language to the Serer language.

[edit]

"Fula is related to Serer language" [1] all attempts to mention this on this articled were permanently deleted. Whoever is making claims in the Serer language article about the relatedness of Serer and Fula should also mention that in the Fula language article. I see no justifiable reason why the relatedness of the two languages is mentioned by the same author in the Serer language article but totally left out and permanently deleted every time it is mentioned in the Fula language article. Tamsier (talk) 16:36, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

[edit]
  1. ^ Sapir, David, 1971. "West Atlantic: an inventory of the languages, their noun-class systems and consonant alternation". In Sebeok, ed, Current trends in linguistics, 7: linguistics in sub-Saharan Africa. Mouton, 45–112

Undue section template on infobox

[edit]

This template has been added in the infobox. The reason being the infobox suggests some sort of superiority of one language over another. Attempts to resolve this issue has been permanently deleted. Tamsier (talk) 17:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

U have placed an inappropriate template. Please familiarize yourself with Wiki template codes. You completely messed up the page. And always use the talk page to explain the nature of the Undue section. (with SOURCES) It is not a case of your say-so. If the thing is a problem explain why here. No need to edit war with experienced editors. I have corrected the error and put back your NPOV notice. You will however have to STATE why that notice was placed on the article. What is wrong with this page, if you cannot do so then the tags will have to be removed. Do not put tags for sections in info box.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 18:03, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Noun classes & comment on standards

[edit]

Couple of items on the form of the class indicators, and quick comment re future of standards for languages like Fula. First, removed the leading apostrophe from the "o" since that is never used in writing. By convention, initial glottals (even if pronounced as such) in Fula are never marked. Second, last I checked, it was general usage not to use the "eng" before "g" for the prenasalized form, such that one would write "ng-" rather than "ŋg." Variant spellings of geminate forms sometimes use the eng before the "ng" per jaŋngude rather than the more common janngude (to read, study). I'm beginning to think that there may be utility in a new regional conference on updating orthography standards for cross-border languages to facilitate use of language data (for development of apps etc. in the languages). Minor differences such as these crop up more or less organically for various reasons, but arguably do more harm for regional use of regional languages like Fula, than good.--A12n (talk) 05:21, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

V

[edit]

Is v used in some cases for loanwords???

Formally, no, at least in my experience. It is not a sound normally distinguished in the language, and is typically replaced by "w" in loans. OTOH, it might certainly appear in what people write when using loanwords.--A12n (talk) 19:31, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Other scripts ... or orthographies

[edit]

In the subsection Other scripts, appears this sentence: "In the 1960s Mali and Senegal each invented their own scripts to write Fula; in the 1970s Nigeria invented its own script too." Not clear what this refers to, unless what is meant are the slightly differing orthographic conventions for the standard extended-Latin script (namely the choice of ɲ or ñ for the palatal n, or the ƴ or 'y for the ejective y).--A12n (talk) 19:37, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Noun classes, again

[edit]

Removed "man" from the list, as it's not a noun class. It was added 9 September 2015 by 109.128.186.122, but not clear what the source was. Also removed "lekkol" (school) as example from "kol." The latter class is rarely used - i.e., one or two nouns only in this class. Loan words like lekkol typically fall in the "o" class.--A12n (talk) 01:48, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Speakers?

[edit]

The article doesn't say how many people speak it, whether nativly or as a second/foreign language. Please add that information.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 12:55, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How are you in fula

[edit]

How are you in fula 212.60.95.216 (talk) 22:29, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fula_language&oldid=1194474175"