Talk:Elen ferch Llywelyn: Difference between revisions

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Untitled

Wait a minute: Joan, daughter of John Lackland, married Alexander II, King of Scots. How could Ellen/Helen be her legitimate daughter by Llewelyn? --Michael K. Smith 15:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Michael... I believe the Joan referred to is in fact John's illegitimate daughter. She is chronicled as having married Llewelyn The Great. I don't know if it would be of interest to you, but there are 2 very compelling works of fiction on these two characters worth reading, "Here by Dragons" by Sharon Kay Penman, which tells of Joan and Llewelyn, and "Child of the Phoenix" by Barbara Erskine, which portrays an extremely startling version of Ellen (Eleyne) which proposes that the English record her as having died in 1253 but actually she went on to live into her eighties! Rgds Dee

The supposed other Elen ferch Llywelyn

The article was moved a couple of years ago, without consultation, based on the idea that Elen had a younger sister of the same name who married the Earl of Fife. Whilst it's certainly possible that Llywelyn had two daughters of the same name, I can find no reputable source for this claim. Even if there was another Elen, there is no article for her, thus no need for disambiguation, so I've moved the article back to its original title. Deb (talk) 17:56, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See also this useful discussion of "Susanna", who seems to be the person wrongly identified as "Elen the younger". Deb (talk) 18:06, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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+{{WikiProject Women's History|importance=low}}
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 Michael... I believe the Joan referred to is in fact John's illegitimate daughter.  She is chronicled as having married Llewelyn The Great.  I don't know if it would be of interest to you, but there are 2 very compelling works of fiction on these two characters worth reading, "Here by Dragons" by Sharon Kay Penman, which tells of Joan and Llewelyn, and "Child of the Phoenix" by Barbara Erskine, which portrays an extremely startling version of Ellen (Eleyne) which proposes that the English record her as having died in 1253 but actually she went on to live into her eighties!  Rgds Dee
+==The supposed other Elen ferch Llywelyn==
+The article was moved a couple of years ago, without consultation, based on the idea that Elen had a younger sister of the same name who married the Earl of Fife. Whilst it's certainly possible that Llywelyn had two daughters of the same name, I can find no reputable source for this claim. Even if there was another Elen, there is no article for her, thus no need for disambiguation, so I've moved the article back to its original title. [[User:Deb|Deb]] ([[User talk:Deb|talk]]) 17:56, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
+:See also [https://sharonkaypenman.com/children-of-llewelyn-ab-iorwerth/ this useful discussion of "Susanna"], who seems to be the person wrongly identified as "Elen the younger". [[User:Deb|Deb]] ([[User talk:Deb|talk]]) 18:06, 9 May 2022 (UTC)