User talk:Cupco: Difference between revisions
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== October 2012 == |
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{{User:Cupco/About}} |
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{{archives|search=yes}} |
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| image = [[Image:Sock block.svg|55px]] |
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==[[Birth control]]== |
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| text = '''''This account has been [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] indefinitely''''' as a [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|sock puppet]] that was created to violate Wikipedia policy. Note that multiple accounts are [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry#Legitimate uses|allowed]], ''but'' using them for [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry#Inappropriate uses of alternative accounts|illegitimate]] reasons '''is not'''. If this account is not a sock puppet, and you would like to be unblocked, you may [[Wikipedia:Appealing a block|appeal this block]] by adding the text <!-- Copy the text as it appears on the page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "tlx" argument. -->{{tlx|unblock|Your reason here ~~~~}} below, but you should read the [[Wikipedia:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]] first. [[User:Dennis Brown|<b>Dennis</b> <b>Brown</b>]] - [[User talk:Dennis Brown|<small>2¢</small>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dennis_Brown|<small>©</small>]] <small><b>[[WP:WikiProject Editor Retention|Join WER]]</b></small> 02:33, 6 October 2012 (UTC)<!-- Template:SockBlock --> |
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Would be great to get this article to GA. It is on the list of articles to be translated as part of this project. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Translation_task_force] To get it there we need to make sure we use nearly exclusively review articles or major textbooks from the last 3-5/10 years per [[WP:MEDRS]]. Anyway many thanks for your efforts.[[User:Jmh649|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Jmh649|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Jmh649|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Jmh649|email]]) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 10:24, 30 August 2012 (UTC) |
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:Ongoing discussion at [[Talk:Birth control]]. —[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<font color="#0c0">Cup</font><font color="#630">co</font>''''']] 22:37, 30 August 2012 (UTC) |
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: Hi Cupco, I've reviewed Birth control and it's almost there. I've hidden one image which seemed to have a flaky NFUR, hidden a few redlinks, fixed a few typos, ... and put the article on hold for the Citations needed tags. Actually the GA review criteria are a bit vague/contradictory/ambiguous on whether one or two tags are permitted; certainly there mustn't be "many". Hmm. The easiest way would be to fix all of them - one or two can I think be resolved simply by rearranging wording to avoid having sentences dangling after their citations; others could be fixed by cutting the claims or finding new citations. [[User:Chiswick Chap|Chiswick Chap]] ([[User talk:Chiswick Chap|talk]]) 09:19, 19 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== Gadget for subst'ing Cite_journal == |
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I have created a quick gadget {subst:[[Template:Fcite_journal/subst]]|...} which can store subst'ed {Cite_journal} entries as simple wiki-text, omitting the <span class=...> and tedious [[COinS]] metadata. Unfortunately, there are still some formatting characters stored, such   for space and "<b/>;" for semicolons, due to restrictions in storing lead-spaces or semicolons in text. However, the resulting text is portable to other wikis, which lack {Cite_journal}. Example (edit this talk-topic and look inside for results): |
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<pre>{{subst:Fcite journal/subst |
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| last1 = Chin | first1 = H. B. | last2 = Sipe | first2 = T. A. |
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| last3 = Elder | first3 = R. | last4 = Mercer | first4 = S. L. |
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| last5 = Chattopadhyay | first5 = S. K. | last6 = Jacob | first6 = V. |
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| last7 = Wethington | first7 = H. R. | last8 = Kirby | first8 = D. |
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| last9 = Elliston | first9 = D. B. |
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| doi = 10.1016/j.amepre.2011.11.006 |
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| title = The Effectiveness of Group-Based Comprehensive Risk-Reduction and Abstinence Education Interventions to Prevent or Reduce the Risk of Adolescent Pregnancy, Human Immunodeficiency Virus, and Sexually Transmitted Infections |
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| journal = American Journal of Preventive Medicine |
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| volume = 42 | issue = 3 | pages = 272–294 | year = 2012 |
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| pmid = 22341164 | pmc = |
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| url = http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(11)00906-8/abstract |
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}} |
}} |
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*See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Dualus]]. [[User:Dennis Brown|<b>Dennis</b> <b>Brown</b>]] - [[User talk:Dennis Brown|<small>2¢</small>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dennis_Brown|<small>©</small>]] <small><b>[[WP:WikiProject Editor Retention|Join WER]]</b></small> 02:33, 6 October 2012 (UTC) |
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</pre> |
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'''Subst'ed result:''' Chin, H. B.<b/>; Sipe, T. A.<b/>; Elder, R.<b/>; Mercer, S. L.<b/>; Chattopadhyay, S. K.<b/>; Jacob, V.<b/>; Wethington, H. R.<b/>; Kirby, D.<b/>; et al. (2012). [http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(11)00906-8/abstract "The Effectiveness of Group-Based Comprehensive Risk-Reduction and Abstinence Education Interventions to Prevent or Reduce the Risk of Adolescent Pregnancy, Human Immunodeficiency Virus, and Sexually Transmitted Infections"]. ''American Journal of Preventive Medicine '' '''42''' (3)<b/>: 272–294. <!--{{citation error|Bad DOI specified}}-->. [[PubMed Identifier|PMID]] [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22341164 22341164]. |
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<br>The {Fcite_journal/subst} handles most options of {Cite_journal} and puts "et al." for author9. Meanwhile, I am still working with [[Template:If]] to replace the " " with simple spaces, but feel free to use it as needed. I know many articles have like "46" {cite_journal} entries, which can be too tedious for wiki-reformatting by hand. The next step, below, is to replace all {cite_pmid} entries. |
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== ''The Signpost'': 08 October 2012 == |
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'''Subst'ing Cite_pmid to Cite_journal to Fcite_journal/subst:''' To answer your original problem, edit the new page ''twice'', copying all {cite_pmid} to the new page. First subst all of the {cite_pmid|222333} as slashed {subst:cite_pmid/222333|noedit}, and then re-edit that subst'ed page and subst all the new {cite_journal} entries: |
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::* '''Edit 1:''' Subst every {cite_pmid} with "/" |
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:::: {subst:cite_pmid/111222|noedit} |
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:::: {subst:cite_pmid/111333|noedit} |
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:::: {subst:cite_pmid/111444|noedit} |
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:::: Upon SAVE, all {cite_pmid/...} become {cite_journal} entries. |
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::* '''Edit 2:''' Subst every {cite_journal} with "F /subst" |
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:::: {subst:Fcite_journal/subst |... pmid=111222|...} |
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:::: {subst:Fcite_journal/subst |... pmid=111333|...} |
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:::: {subst:Fcite_journal/subst |... pmid=111444|...} |
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By that 2-step process, then all {cite_pmid} will become simple wiki-text cites with no more templates in use. Should take just a few minutes to convert all 46 {cite_pmid} to clean, portable wiki-text. Ask below if any questions. -[[User:Wikid77|Wikid77]] ([[User talk:Wikid77|talk]]) 19:29, 7 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== Power-to-Gas == |
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Hello! According to [http://www.zsw-bw.de/infoportal/aktuelles/aktuelles-detail/hochrangige-politiker-lobten-zsw-innovationen.html this page], the project is supposed to go on line in autumn 2012. --[[User:Eike sauer|Eike sauer]] ([[User talk:Eike sauer|talk]]) 14:33, 9 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:Danke schoen! —[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<font color="#0c0">Cup</font><font color="#630">co</font>''''']] 20:04, 9 September 2012 (UTC) |
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: Hi! Concerning your message in the "Auskunft": Thank you very much, although most of us are not directly involved. ;) Looking at your machine translated text (the term "deutsches Volk" is somewhat unusal nowadays, see [[Volk (disambiguation)]]), it might be better you just ask in English though. :) Most poeple will understand it anyhow. --Eike (Diskussion) 19:29, 11. Sep. 2012 (CEST) <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Eike sauer|Eike sauer]] ([[User talk:Eike sauer|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eike sauer|contribs]]) 17:32, 11 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== ''The Signpost'': 10 September 2012 == |
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{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2012 |
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2012-10-08}} |
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</div><!--Volume 8, Issue |
</div><!--Volume 8, Issue 41--> |
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* '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' |
* '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' |
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* [[Wikipedia:Signpost/Single|Single-page]] |
* [[Wikipedia:Signpost/Single|Single-page]] |
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* [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] |
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* [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) |
* [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 20:03, 9 October 2012 (UTC) |
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<!-- EdwardsBot |
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== ''Innocence of Muslims'' film trailer == |
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Hi, I'm writing because you are listed in [[:Category:Translators ar-en]]. It was recently pointed out at [[Talk:Innocence of Muslims#ARABIC Wikipedia version]] that the English Wikipedia article on the deliberately inflammatory film trailer ''[[Innocence of Muslims]]'' contains very much more detailed information about the deliberate deceit on the part of the filmmakers to try to obscure their identity and the nature of the trailers which has not yet been added to the Arabic version at [[ar:براءة_المسلمين]] which is getting [http://stats.grok.se/ar/latest30/%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A1%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%84%D9%85%D9%8A%D9%86 about 8,000 page views per day] presently. Would you please consider adding some of the details which might help Arabic readers understand some of the missing details of the trailers? Thank you for your consideration. —[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<font color="#0c0">Cup</font><font color="#630">co</font>''''']] 22:04, 14 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:I'm sorry dear, i am against this amateur hate message. and i will NOT be a part of this project by any mean. it is not even encyclopedic in my point of view. [[User:Ammar_shaker|<small>'''<span style="background:Red;color:White"> A M M A R </span>'''</small>]] 08:12, 15 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:Hi Cupco, I would rather keep silent and say nothing either right or wrong. This whole thing is a political game with much in the shade than in the open. --<b><font face="Arial Narrow" color="1F860E">[[User:Haytham abulela|Haytham]]</font><font color="20038A"><sup>[[User:Haytham abulela|Abulela]]</sup></font></b> 16:53, 16 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== Honest inquiry. == |
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I am quite certain that one or more of my detractors have created a secondary account with the sole purpose of mimicking some of my posts in order to maliciously accuse me of operating two accounts and practising vandalism. Have you encountered this, before? I strongly suspect it is either 2001:db8 or Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556. Just curious if you have any insights into this sort of infantile behaviour which is expected given the demographic composition of Wikipedia. Thanks in advance. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bobinisrael|Bobinisrael]] ([[User talk:Bobinisrael|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bobinisrael|contribs]]) 01:56, 17 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Replied at [[User talk:Bobinisrael#Re: Honest inquiry.]] —[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<font color="#0c0">Cup</font><font color="#630">co</font>''''']] 03:12, 17 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== RX == |
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Please enable your mail so I will send you the link--[[user:Shrike|Shrike]] ([[User talk:Shrike|talk]])/[[WP:RX]] 07:10, 17 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:Sent.--[[user:Shrike|Shrike]] ([[User talk:Shrike|talk]])/[[WP:RX]] 07:56, 17 September 2012 (UTC) |
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==DYK for Carbon neutral fuel== |
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{{tmbox |
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|image = {{#switch: {{Currentdaymonth}} | 31 October = [[Image:Emblem-very-very-evil.svg|15px25px|Updated DYK query]] | [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]}} |
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|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#18 September 2012|18 September 2012]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Carbon neutral fuel]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that '''[[carbon neutral fuel]]s''' have been proposed to [[Power storage|store]] [[wind power]], minimizing [[intermittency]] problems and enabling its use with conventional vehicles and existing [[natural gas]] [[Pipeline transport|pipelines]]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Carbon neutral fuel|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Carbon neutral fuel]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Carbon neutral fuel|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Carbon neutral fuel]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201209/Carbon_neutral_fuel quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]]. |
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}} [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:04, 18 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:\o/ —[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<font color="#0c0">Cup</font><font color="#630">co</font>''''']] 00:36, 18 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== Perhaps you can look at something. == |
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I am in the midst of an edit war with AndyTheGrump, who continually deletes a well-written paragraph I composed documenting a controversy with CNN anchor Soledad O'Brien. This is obviously not being done in good faith, as no specific criticisms are being levied against anything I've composed aside from slandering the legitimate sources as "conservative blogs" (they are all reliable sources as per Wikipedia guidelines), with the edit being described as pushing a certain POV. An honest examination of the paragraph instantly reveals that it is painstakingly written with a NPOV, but again, these detractors are unable to be honest. They are more concerned with my demeanour and candour in the talk pages than with the actual quality of content in the article. Have a look for yourself [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Soledad_O%27Brien&diff=prev&oldid=513320468 here], and use the 'undo' and then 'show preview' button. The article I composed will be the first paragraph in the paragraph section under the year 2012. Thanks in advance. [[User:Bobinisrael|Bobinisrael]] ([[User talk:Bobinisrael|talk]]) 06:10, 18 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:Replied at [[User talk:Bobinisrael#Re: Perhaps you can look at something.]] —[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<font color="#0c0">Cup</font><font color="#630">co</font>''''']] 06:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== ''The Signpost'': 17 September 2012 == |
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<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"> |
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{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2012-09-17}} |
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</div><!--Volume 8, Issue 38--> |
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<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> |
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* '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' |
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* [[Wikipedia:Signpost/Single|Single-page]] |
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* [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] |
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* [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 16:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC) |
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<!-- EdwardsBot 0357 --> |
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==Tax chart == |
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Cupco, I have a problem with the tax chart you added to several of the articles from the left-leaning ITEP. In particular, some of the charts and the caption of the image supplied use a measure other than the tax base. This is mathematically incorrect and violates the definition. Some publications try to generically compare apples to oranges and apply it using a single base, which is fine for the point they're trying to make, but in the context of the article and proper economics - it's pretty bias. The tax base of sales, excise, and property is one of consumption, not income. So such taxes are [[proportional tax|proportional]] in application relative to the tax base (and that's minus the progressive effects of base exclusions). The chart being described as a measure of incidence is also misleading, making it sound as if these sales and excise taxes are primarily paid by low income, which is false - rich people obviously buy more stuff. So it's not the incidence of the tax, but the incidence of the tax as applied to the individual's income (assuming untaxed savings). Again, they're twisting the definition to fit their narrative. I have no problem putting a chart of income taxes to show a progressive tax (or any other tax measured by base), but this combination graph is extremely misleading in this context. [[User:Morphh|<span style="color:green">Morphh</span>]] <sup>[[user talk:Morphh|<span style="color:chocolate">(talk)</span>]]</sup> <small><i>13:52, 20 September 2012 (UTC)</i></small> |
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==This is not a newsletter== |
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[[File:US tax incidence 2007.png|thumb|The new 2007 ITEP chart in question.]] |
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[[Tribute (song)|This is just a tribute]]. |
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[[File:Distribution of U.S. Federal Taxes 2000.JPG|thumb|right|The 2000 chart I was replacing.]] |
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Anyway. You're getting this note because you've participated in discussion and/or asked for updates to either the [[WP:AFT5|Article Feedback Tool]] or [[WP:NPT|Page Curation]]. This isn't about either of those things, I'm afraid ;p. We've recently started working on yet another project: Echo, a notifications system to augment the watchlist. There's not much information at the moment, because we're still working out the scope and the concepts, but if you're interested in further updates you can sign up [[Wikipedia:Editor engagement/Echo|here]]. |
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:Hi Morphh, I got your message about the ITEP "Who Pays?" tax chart. You said several things, some of which I didn't understand, so let me reply to each of them: |
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::''I have a problem with the tax chart you added to several of the articles from the left-leaning ITEP. '' |
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:I was not aware that ITEP was or had a reputation of being left-leaning. As far as I know, they are strictly centrist and go out of their way to not take sides in any political debate. [http://www.itep.org/about/about.php Their "About" page is here.] I see that our article describes them as left-leaning, citing an op-ed which calls them "a bunch of lefties" but that same op-ed also says they are accurate. Our article also calls them "non-partisan" as does every other third-party mention of them on the web I was able to find. |
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In addition, we'll be holding an [[m:IRC office hours|office hours]] session at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=21&min=00&sec=0&day=14&month=11&year=2012 21:00 UTC] on Wednesday, 14 November in #wikimedia-office - hope to see you all there :). I appreciate it's an annoying time for non-Europeans: if you're interested in chatting about the project but can't make it, give me a shout and I can set up another session if there's enough interest in one particular timezone or a skype call if there isn't. Thanks! [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 10:52, 10 November 2012 (UTC) |
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::''some of the charts and the caption of the image supplied use a measure other than the tax base. This is mathematically incorrect and violates the definition. Some publications try to generically compare apples to oranges and apply it using a single base, which is fine for the point they're trying to make, but in the context of the article and proper economics - it's pretty bias. The tax base of sales, excise, and property is one of consumption, not income. So such taxes are proportional in application relative to the tax base (and that's minus the progressive effects of base exclusions).'' |
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:Can you please explain what you mean here? I don't understand what you are suggesting by "a measure other than the tax base". They use the proportion of income taxed by the various kinds of taxation, do they not? |
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==AFT5 office hours== |
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::''The chart being described as a measure of incidence is also misleading, making it sound as if these sales and excise taxes are primarily paid by low income, which is false - rich people obviously buy more stuff.'' |
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Hey all :). Just a quick note to say we'll be holding office hours in #wikimedia-office at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=21&min=30&sec=0&day=29&month=11&year=2012 21:30 UTC] this Thursday (the 29th) to show everyone the additional tools we're thinking of working on. All attendence and feedback is appreciated :). Thanks! [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 14:11, 27 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:Not as a proportion of their income, they do not. Please note that is the exact same basis as the Treasury's [[:File:Distribution of U.S. Federal Taxes 2000.JPG]] chart I was replacing uses. |
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==AFT5 newsletter== |
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::''So it's not the incidence of the tax, but the incidence of the tax as applied to the individual's income (assuming untaxed savings). Again, they're twisting the definition to fit their narrative.'' |
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Hey all; another newsletter. |
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:This seems completely absurd to me. I've never seen anyone measure tax incidence in terms of total dollars paid. Can you point to any such uses in the economics or government, non-political literature? |
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*If you're not already aware, a [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Article feedback|Request for Comment]] on the future of the Article Feedback Tool on the English-language Wikipedia is open; any and all comments, regardless of opinion and perspective, are welcome. |
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:Our [[tax incidence]] article says, "tax incidence is the analysis of the effect of a particular tax on the distribution of economic welfare." If someone with a $200,000 income pays a $10,000 tax, would you say that has the same impact on their economic welfare as if someone with a $20,000 income pays the same $10,000? —[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<font color="#0c0">Cup</font><font color="#630">co</font>''''']] 17:10, 20 September 2012 (UTC) |
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*Our final round of hand-coding is complete, and the results can be found [[m:Research:Article feedback/Final quality assessment|here]]; thanks to everyone who took part! |
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*We've made test deployments to the German and French-language projects; if you are aware of any other projects that might like to test out or use the tool, please let me know :). |
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*Developers continue to work on the upgraded version of the feedback page that was discussed during our last office hours session, with a prototype ready for you to play around with in a few weeks. |
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That's all for now! [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 16:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC) |
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::Cupco, no problem.. I'll try to address your statements. I moved your discussion here to keep it all in one place (I'll watch your page). |
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:::''I was not aware that ITEP was or had a reputation of being left-leaning. As far as I know, they are strictly centrist and go out of their way to not take sides in any political debate. Their "About" page is here. I see that our article describes them as left-leaning, citing an op-ed which calls them "a bunch of lefties" but that same op-ed also says they are accurate. Our article also calls them "non-partisan" as does every other third-party mention of them on the web I was able to find.'' |
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::Non-partisan is a correct and accurate description based on the organization's 501(c)(3) not-for-profit status, which means they can't support a candidate or a party. It does not mean they are centrist and it doesn't restrict them from leaning toward a political philosophy. Regardless, being left or right leaning is somewhat irrelevant. I only included it to demonstrate that the organization is presenting a point of view. It's not simply presenting economic statistics in a direct way that everyone would agree with. In this sense, it's an opinion piece, so I don't think it appropriate to take that opinion and push it center stage. It would be undue weight. To clarify, I didn't state their material was inaccurate for what they are presenting - they explain what they're doing, but that doesn't make it fact or an even measure of comparison. It just makes it an opinion based on an accurate comparison using their definitions and assumptions. |
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:::''Can you please explain what you mean here? I don't understand what you are suggesting by "a measure other than the tax base". They use the proportion of income taxed by the various kinds of taxation, do they not?'' |
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::The definition of progressive and regressive is not a measure on income - it is a measure on the amount subject to taxation (the tax base). So if you're taxing income, which we usually are, then income is your tax base. If you're taxing sales, then consumption is your tax base. You have to measure the item that is being taxed. You can do otherwise, but it requires specific definitions and a lot of assumptions about spending, savings, time frames, uniformity, etc. So, a simple chart on income - great. A simple chart on sales, great. A chart that tries to compare the two using direct tax bases and indirect tax bases that include major assumptions and opinion - not good. At least, not good for a basic image meant to demonstrate a progressive or regressive process. There is no need to lead off with an chart of economic opinion, fuzzy math, and suggestions of U.S. economic injustice. |
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:::''Not as a proportion of their income, they do not. Please note that is the exact same basis as the Treasury's File:Distribution of U.S. Federal Taxes 2000.JPG chart I was replacing uses.'' |
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::The Treasury Department chart is based on federal taxes. The total taxes they describe that offset the income taxes are [[Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax|payroll taxes]], which become regressive after the annual wage maximum is reached. |
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:::''This seems completely absurd to me. I've never seen anyone measure tax incidence in terms of total dollars paid. Can you point to any such uses in the economics or government, non-political literature? Our tax incidence article says, "tax incidence is the analysis of the effect of a particular tax on the distribution of economic welfare." If someone with a $200,000 income pays a $10,000 tax, would you say that has the same impact on their economic welfare as if someone with a $20,000 income pays the same $10,000?'' |
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::If you look at the tax incidence article again, you'll see it talks about how a tax is distributed in relation to the item taxed. It says "The key concept is that the tax incidence or tax burden does not depend on where the revenue is collected, but on the price elasticity of demand and price elasticity of supply." See the examples given in the article. You'll see it describes where the tax is distributed, the factors of product and where those burdens eventually fall - the owner (shareholder), the employees, the consumers. Tax incidence is said to "fall" upon the group that ultimately bears the burden of, or ultimately has to pay, the tax. Which in the case of sales may not entirely be the consumer based again on elasticity (another assumption made by the publication). You'll note that the article doesn't say anything about a percentage of an individual's income being a measure of incidence. |
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::I hope this helps clarify some of the points. Again, I'm fine with including a chart that demonstrates the basic effects on a tax - it would be great (something like [http://www.salary.sg/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/effective-tax-rate.gif this]). [[User:Morphh|<span style="color:green">Morphh</span>]] <sup>[[user talk:Morphh|<span style="color:chocolate">(talk)</span>]]</sup> <small><i>20:46, 20 September 2012 (UTC)</i></small> |
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==Birth control== |
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:::So you're not disputing the ITEP figures or saying they fail to cover ''all'' taxes paid by U.S. taxpayers, is that right? And you're not saying that the chart is biased or inaccurate, only that it leaves a biased impression because it compares sales tax to proportion of income instead of proportion of consumption? Can you point to any other description of progressive or regressive taxation or tax incidence anywhere on the internet that measures sales tax in terms of proportion of individual consumption? I have never heard of such a thing. Am I understanding you correctly to say that you would prefer [http://www.salary.sg/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/effective-tax-rate.gif a chart which only shows one particular form of taxation, which happens to look very progressive], instead showing of ''all'' the taxes which fall on the U.S. taxpayer? And you don't think that would be far more biased than showing the grand total of all taxes? —[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<font color="#0c0">Cup</font><font color="#630">co</font>''''']] 21:40, 20 September 2012 (UTC) |
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Am thinking of nominating [[birth control]] for GAR. While you improved it greatly there is still work to do. If we could return you to editing would you be interested in working on it some more? [[User:Jmh649|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Jmh649|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Jmh649|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Jmh649|email]]) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 15:08, 2 May 2013 (UTC) |
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::::The chart doesn't cover all taxes paid by U.S. taxpayers - it covers local and state taxes. Also, I do believe the chart is bias and it's inaccurate in the context in which you're using it. As for using the subject of taxation as the measure of said taxation, see the basic definition. |
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::Some of the content you added is "copy and pasted" from the sources such as in this edit [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Birth_control&diff=510050168&oldid=510045987]. Have delisted the article in question. [[User:Jmh649|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Jmh649|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Jmh649|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Jmh649|email]]) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 22:19, 9 July 2013 (UTC) |
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:::::*[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Progressive Webster] (4b): increasing in rate as '''the base''' increases (a progressive tax) |
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== Nomination for deletion of [[:Template:BLP noticeboard]] == |
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:::::*[http://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=progressive American Heritage] (6). Increasing in rate as the '''taxable amount''' increases. |
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[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|30px|link=]][[:Template:BLP noticeboard]] has been [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|nominated for deletion]]. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 January 18#Template:BLP noticeboard|'''the entry on the Templates for discussion page''']].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> [[User:Schierbecker|Schierbecker]] ([[User talk:Schierbecker|talk]]) 07:03, 18 January 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::*[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/478399/progressive-tax Britannica Concise Encyclopedia]: Tax levied at a rate that increases as '''the quantity subject to taxation''' increases. |
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:::::*[http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=progressive+tax Princeton University WordNet]: (n) progressive tax (any tax in which the rate increases as '''the amount subject to taxation''' increases) |
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:::::*Sommerfeld, Ray M., Silvia A. Madeo, Kenneth E. Anderson, Betty R. Jackson (1992), ''Concepts of Taxation'', Dryden Press: Fort Worth, TX |
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:::::*Hyman, David M. (1990) ''Public Finance: A Contemporary Application of Theory to Policy'', 3rd, Dryden Press: Chicago, IL |
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:::::*James, Simon (1998) ''A Dictionary of Taxation'', Edgar Elgar Publishing Limited: Northampton, MA |
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::::Here is a quick example. If I purchase an item for $10 and pay 10% tax, what is the tax rate on that sale? 10% Do I need to know what my income level is? No, as income is not taxed. If my income was $1, my tax rate is still 10% of the tax base, not 100%. Another example, let's say I make $100,000 and spend it over the next 4 years. How do you measure that? Using income as a base like ITEP does in this publication, it would all fall on year one (10% * $25,000 / $100,000) = 2.5% - very regressive, but it ignores the consumption in year 2,3,4 (it considers all savings as untaxed income). If we happen to catch this analysis in year 2, this guy would be poor and have a very high tax burden relative to his zero income. Under a proper measure, we see 10% on consumption each year (10% * $25,000 / $25,000) = 10% year 1, year 2, year 3, year 4. This is what economic data shows - people save earlier in life and consume that savings later, which is why estimations on consumption tend to be life-time or multi-year analysis, but I'm getting off topic. |
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::::The articles that we're primarily discussing are not United States articles, they're global articles that discuss a generic distribution. It makes sense for an article that is discussing a progressive tax to show what a progressive distribution looks like. Similarly, a regressive tax article would show what a regressive distribution looks like. It doesn't matter if it's an income tax, sales tax, property tax, payroll tax, excise tax.. whatever - a progressive tax distribution looks like this (rate increases as the amount subject to taxation increases), a regressive tax looks like this (opposite graph). There is no need to get into conflicts about what type of tax it is or what country or state the measures are from. No opinion or interpretation is needed and stretching it to include such a comparison just adds bias and pov where it is unnecessary and disadvantageous. This very discussion between two economically educated individuals proves that the graph is too complex for these basic articles. [[User:Morphh|<span style="color:green">Morphh</span>]] <sup>[[user talk:Morphh|<span style="color:chocolate">(talk)</span>]]</sup> <small><i>00:49, 21 September 2012 (UTC)</i></small> |
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Latest revision as of 07:03, 18 January 2024
October 2012
[edit] | This account has been blocked indefinitely as a sock puppet that was created to violate Wikipedia policy. Note that multiple accounts are allowed, but using them for illegitimate reasons is not. If this account is not a sock puppet, and you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here ~~~~}} below, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:33, 6 October 2012 (UTC) |
- See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Dualus. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:33, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
The Signpost: 08 October 2012
[edit]- News and notes: Education Program faces community resistance
- WikiProject report: Ten years and one million articles: WikiProject Biography
- Featured content: A dash of Arsenikk
- Discussion report: Closing RfAs: Stewards or Bureaucrats?; Redesign of Help:Contents
This is not a newsletter
[edit]Anyway. You're getting this note because you've participated in discussion and/or asked for updates to either the Article Feedback Tool or Page Curation. This isn't about either of those things, I'm afraid ;p. We've recently started working on yet another project: Echo, a notifications system to augment the watchlist. There's not much information at the moment, because we're still working out the scope and the concepts, but if you're interested in further updates you can sign up here.
In addition, we'll be holding an office hours session at 21:00 UTC on Wednesday, 14 November in #wikimedia-office - hope to see you all there :). I appreciate it's an annoying time for non-Europeans: if you're interested in chatting about the project but can't make it, give me a shout and I can set up another session if there's enough interest in one particular timezone or a skype call if there isn't. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 10:52, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
AFT5 office hours
[edit]Hey all :). Just a quick note to say we'll be holding office hours in #wikimedia-office at 21:30 UTC this Thursday (the 29th) to show everyone the additional tools we're thinking of working on. All attendence and feedback is appreciated :). Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:11, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
AFT5 newsletter
[edit]Hey all; another newsletter.
- If you're not already aware, a Request for Comment on the future of the Article Feedback Tool on the English-language Wikipedia is open; any and all comments, regardless of opinion and perspective, are welcome.
- Our final round of hand-coding is complete, and the results can be found here; thanks to everyone who took part!
- We've made test deployments to the German and French-language projects; if you are aware of any other projects that might like to test out or use the tool, please let me know :).
- Developers continue to work on the upgraded version of the feedback page that was discussed during our last office hours session, with a prototype ready for you to play around with in a few weeks.
That's all for now! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Birth control
[edit]Am thinking of nominating birth control for GAR. While you improved it greatly there is still work to do. If we could return you to editing would you be interested in working on it some more? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 15:08, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Nomination for deletion of Template:BLP noticeboard
[edit]
Template:BLP noticeboard has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Schierbecker (talk) 07:03, 18 January 2024 (UTC)