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Implementing WP:PIQA (Task 26)
 
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{{Talk header}}
==Cleanup==
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=Stub|
I've done a little cleanup of this stub, including removing the link to aliweb.com, which is not related to the original ALIWEB in any way other than by name.[[User:Bill Slawski|Bill Slawski]] 23:10, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
{{WikiProject Internet |importance=low}}
{{WikiProject Computing |importance=low}}
{{WikiProject Technology }}
}}
{{Broken anchors|links=
* <nowiki>[[History of the World Wide Web#Web governance|First International Conference]]</nowiki> The anchor (#Web governance) is no longer available because it was [[Special:Diff/1072016187|deleted by a user]] before. <!-- {"title":"Web governance","appear":{"revid":626878828,"parentid":626878034,"timestamp":"2014-09-24T10:10:00Z","removed_section_titles":["Web organization"],"added_section_titles":["Web governance"]},"disappear":{"revid":1072016187,"parentid":1071995206,"timestamp":"2022-02-15T14:55:18Z","removed_section_titles":["Web governance","CITEREF1995","CITEREF2010"],"added_section_titles":["W3C","CITEREF1994","CITEREFHoffman"]}} -->
}}


==Untitled==
:Aliweb.com is very related to the original Aliweb. It has the update of the original database and still uses the same code as was used originally with some fixes. {{unsigned|74.131.81.181|06:24, 11 June 2006 (UTC)}}
I think we should list every living soul that is living or dead that is not involved with aliweb so it will be extremely clear all the people that have nothing to do with Alwieb. Don't you agree? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.131.11.143|74.131.11.143]] ([[User talk:74.131.11.143|talk]]) 09:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


==EL to timeline==
:Restored article to edit before Bill Slawski changed it back to the wrong information. {{unsigned|74.131.81.181|09:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)}}
There was a broken external link in the article. When Ed Johnston removed it, he asked [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Aliweb&diff=prev&oldid=160598855 in his edit summary] "if anyone remembers what this was, or why it relates to Aliweb." It was Jeremy M. Norman's ''From Gutenberg to the Internet'' Timeline—here's an [http://www.historyofscience.com/G2I/docs/timeline/timeline_1992_1996.shtml unbroken link] to it—with a November 30 Aliweb entry under 1993. (The book <small><nowiki>[</nowiki>{{ASIN|0930405870}}<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> is also cited in [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia in books#June 2005]].)


When the link was added last year, aliweb.com promoters (see [[Talk:Aliweb/Archive 1]]) were still chewing on the article and it seemed that every scrap of historical verification was needed to help fend them off. This article is currently a better source than the timeline. The only reason I see to include it is for its placement of Aliweb in chronological context. — [[User:Athaenara|Athaenara]] [[User talk:Athaenara| ✉ ]] 16:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
:I am currently the lead programmer working on Aliweb - and I have edited some of the current article. I would appreciate Mr. Slawski not deleting any more sections from it. {{unsigned|Aliweb|09:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)}}


== External links modified ==
::As far as anyone can tell, you are an anonymous user of wikipedia. You don't need to sign in to make edits here, but they are prone to being edited. Perhaps some citations that can be referenced to back your statements would be helpful. The only statement that I see about ALIWEB is on the original developer's site which says that the present day pages are unrelated to the original site. As it stands now, this entry in the wikipedia is promotional rather than informational. Help it become something that won't be edited away. [[User:Bill Slawski|Bill Slawski]] 20:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
==Employee==
I really can't understand this logic. If I work for Aliweb then it should follow that I know a little about the subject. Can you point to anything that is NOT factual about the current article? Further - since the current site states it is the web's first search engine, and gives the date that it first started in the title, and has the same name, I think it would be quite obvious that the original Aliweb, and the current Aliweb are one in the same and of course have something more than just the name in common. Obviously Mr. Koster is no longer involved with the Aliweb project, and his personal web page is not very complimentary of the current web site or owners. He is certainly entitled to his opinion. I have no animosity towards Mr. Koster and have not deleted nor intend to delete any of the references to him or his achievements as they relate to Aliweb. His contributions to the web speak for themselves.


I have just modified {{plural:2|one external link|2 external links}} on [[Aliweb]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=743398823 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
As for being promotional, nothing stated is not factual to my knowledge. It just seems rather odd to delete a url to a page that states to have substantial ties to the subject matter, I state otherwise and then when you are corrected, to then delete the url again. I would suspect that at least a negative disparaging factual statement that aliweb.com with a link is not related to the original aliweb would be in order if you believe that the current site is not related and certainly would be more accurate than simply deleting it entirely.
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070116180455/http://www.greenhills.co.uk:80/mak/historical.html to http://www.greenhills.co.uk/mak/historical.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.aliweb.com


When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}).
The bottom line is I am the lead programmer for Aliweb, and I have done extensive research into the history of Aliweb. I know this subject, backwards, forwards, inside out. So please, please, unless you have a real factual inaccurate mistake to fix or something factual to add to the article, stop deleting my additions to it (I'll just repost them anyway). {{unsigned|Aliweb|10:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)}} [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Aliweb&diff=next&oldid=58553374 (diff)] {{unsigned|Aliweb|10:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)}}


{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}
::I'm not trying to argue with you. Make it easy for people to verify your statements, who your are, etc. Use some citations, create a user name, expand upon some of that history here that you know so well.[[User:Bill Slawski|Bill Slawski]] 14:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 13:32, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
==Links==
Alksub - What exactly is the point of deleting the links to Aliweb throughout the article? {{unsigned|74.131.81.181|09:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)}}

:It is unnecessary to link over and over again to the same site. One link in the most appropriate place in the text is the normal Wikipedia practice. In this case the most appropriate place seems to be the paragraph about the current site. I also agree with Bill that citations are required. --[[User:Genie|Genie]] 18:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

These constant negative and inaccurate edits are getting very old. . . {{unsigned|Aliweb|08:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)}}

==Deleted comment==
===Restoring a deleted comment ===
Hello, Aliweb article editors!

For your reading pleasure, I am restoring my 25 November comment to the Talk page, which was just deleted by an anonymous contributor. Something could be in the air, because [[User:Aliweb]] deleted a similar comment of mine over at [[Talk:List of search engines]], leaving the history comment 'Misinformation deleted'.

Dear User Aliweb, please be patient with us and explain the nature of the misinformation so that it can be corrected. And don't delete other people's comments from article Talk pages, it can get you in trouble. It will also help us if you sign your comments using four tildes, like <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, which makes it easier to follow discussions. You may also want to check WP:COI which cautions users about editing articles about their own businesses. See my closing comment below (after the restored item) which invites your response.

====Aliweb no longer seems to be a bona fide search engine====
:When I type 'wikipedia' or 'google' into the search box at www.aliweb.com, it can't find either one!

:Also the links one can find on the web that seem to associate Aliweb with the Nexor Co. in the UK are not working at this time. (web.nexor.co.uk is not operational). It seems possible that Aliweb might have sold their domain to an American company called Advertising Technologies Corporation, based in Lexington, Kentucky. The relevance of www.aliweb.com to Wikipedia's article on the original Aliweb project now seems questionable.

:The situation appears to justify Bill Slawski's earlier comment (above):
::I've done a little cleanup of this stub, including removing the link to aliweb.com, which is not related to the original ALIWEB in any way other than by name.Bill Slawski 23:10, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

:'''(End of restored comment)'''

Your replies to my observations are invited. Does anyone have any data that suggests that www.aliweb.com is a bona fide search engine, that in any way reflects the original Archie developments of the early '90's? Please provide reliable sources, if any are available, per WP:RS. If there is no way of backing up the claims made in the article, I think that the WP:SPAM guidelines may apply to http://www.aliweb.com, since at first glance it seems that the only search results it returns are paid placements. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] 17:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

===Talk page history===

→ Details of the deletion itself:

*25 November 2006 19:12 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Aliweb&diff=90066468&oldid=70273577 (diff)] [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] posted the message which he restored above.
*14 December 2006 09:21 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Aliweb&diff=94251981&oldid=90066468 (diff)] [[User:74.140.187.28|74.140.187.28]] deleted EdJohnston's post.

*14 December 2006 09:40 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Aliweb&diff=94254090&oldid=94251981 (diff)] [[User:74.140.187.28|74.140.187.28]] posted (with ''"Bit of sarcasm added to offset deleted misinformation"'' edit summary) the following:
:''"I guess the database needs to be updated to so when you type wikipedia or google in the search box you will find wikipedia or google in the search results. Also the outdated link to nexor needs to be updated to nexor.com / Anything else need to be fixed? Let me know. '''aliweb@aliweb.com'''" &nbsp; (Emphasis added.)''
*14 December 2006 17:54 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Aliweb&diff=94321176&oldid=94254090 (diff)] [[User:74.140.187.28|74.140.187.28]] deleted (with ''"minor edit"'' edit summary) own post.

→ Comment: The early history (May 2004 - July 2005) of [[Aliweb]] shows a variety of editors slowly building a small and increasingly encyclopedic article. In August 2005 the first of several apparently associated anonymous IPs began to step in. [[User:74.140.187.28|74.140.187.28]] is only one of them. The list (so far):

::[[User:12.203.102.190|12.203.102.190]] ([[User talk:12.203.102.190|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/12.203.102.190|contribs]]) 11 August 2005
::[[User:12.202.236.138|12.202.236.138]] ([[User talk:12.202.236.138|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/12.202.236.138|contribs]]) 25 November 2005
::[[User:12.202.236.233|12.202.236.233]] ([[User talk:12.202.236.233|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/12.202.236.233|contribs]]) 6 December 2005, 20 April 2006
::[[User:74.131.81.181|74.131.81.181]] ([[User talk:74.131.81.181|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/74.131.81.181|contribs]]) 27 May 2006 - 24 September 2006
::[[User:Aliweb]] ([[User talk:Aliweb|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Aliweb|contribs]]) 13 June 2006 - 6 January 2007
::[[User:74.140.187.28|74.140.187.28]] ([[User talk:74.140.187.28|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/74.140.187.28|contribs]]) 20 November 2006 - 2 January 2007

→ [Retrieved and contributed by [[User:Athaenara|<span style="font-family: Edwardian Script ITC; font-size: 12pt; margin-left: .05em"> Athænara </span>]] [[User_talk:Athaenara| <small><small> ✉ </small></small> ]] 07:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)]




== was/is ==

I am open to correction here, but why the consistent and insistent use of "is" rather than "was" in the first sentence? The statement refers to a point in time in the '''past''', hence my preference for the use of "was", which is the '''past''' tense. Using "is" is unnatural in this instance and, as stated in the comments of one of my earlier edits, the use of "was" is not some sort of statement about the current incarnation of Aliweb or some sort of statement that they "lost" first place. (After all, if you were the first, you <s>are</s> were still the first.) I am neither involved in, interested in, or knowledgeable on the subject of the current Aliweb's connection to the original Aliweb. My beef is with grammar. For example, you can refer to a team in some sort of ongoing tournament or competition saying, "Team A '''is''' in first place." If you are referring to the same point in time in last year's competition, you would say, "Team A '''was''' in first place." The "competition" to be the first search engine is in the '''past'''. Get it? [[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 21:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

the user named Aliweb changed my edits, but with no proof or sources showing that it is actually the first search engine... I am new so I will leave it to others to look into this, but I feel its a bit odd. [[User:CrazyRob926|CrazyRob926]] 12:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC)([[User talk:CrazyRob926|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CrazyRob926|contribs]]){{#if:{{{2|}}}|&#32;{{{2}}}|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

Since we are discussing a major internet event as the supposed FIRST web search engine i feel there should be more the one source, especially when the current source has HIGH potential to profit from the claim. [[User:CrazyRob926|CrazyRob926]] 12:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC) • [[Special:Contributions/CrazyRob926|contribs]]){{#if:{{{2|}}}|&#32;{{{2}}}|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> 28 December 2006.

This is completely idiotic. It is a known fact that Aliweb was the first search engine. Can't anyone find anything else relevant to add to the article other than discredit the fact that it is the first search engine (and then not back that claim up with any facts - like name just one search engine that is older). It doesn't matter if I profit from the claim or go to the poor house. Its not a "claim" its a widely known, accepted, and rarely disputed fact. Nothing I do is going to change history no more than I can make the world flat or make the sun orbit the earth.

Next thing we'll be debating is whether Al Gore invented the Internet. Give it a rest. Add something to the article or just leave it alone. Its a waste of time. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 06:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

: Per WP:V, the person who wants to include a controversial statement in an article needs to provide a reference. ''The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article''. If you're not able to provide a reference, the statement should be removed. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] 17:59, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

"Controversial" . . . that's the key isn't it? So, if Aliweb was not the web's first search engine then provide some proof of what was the web's first search engine . . . there isnt' anything controversial about it. Its a known fact. You can spend about 2 minutes on any search engine that tries to index the entire web and figure this out. The next person who changes the article please at least have some fact/research/clue before changing it. Its as if this article is posted and checked hourly by the powers that be and as soon as it is fixed a new name pops up to change it. Again, nothing substantive has been added to the article. Nothing new. There are numerous references on the Internet about this search engine. I have a verifiable reference of November 1993 that also aludes to an earlier announcement (hint hint). Anyone care to actually do some research? [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 06:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

And further . . . how do you know then it is "one of the first". Maybe it was the 100th. Perhaps the 1000th. Quantify "one of the first". So first 3? first 5? So I guess delete all that - its a "non bonafide" search engine. If you spent as much time actually doing some research instead of changing the article and citing whatever references -- now its the "its a controversial statement" argument -- to use as an excuse to vandalize the information perhaps the article would be longer than the discussion over this trivial and universally accepted fact. The only controversy about this has been generated by you. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 06:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

So tomarrow I'll come here and it will again be "one of the first" instead of "the first" and there will not be one shred of evidence to the contrary given and we'll go back and forth as long as it takes for you to get tired or to finally get some energy to do some research. Unless -- again -- there is some "hidden agenda" as to why it is more important to discredit the fact than to do research to either confirm or discredit the fact. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 06:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I spent the 20 or so minutes doing the research that nobody wanted to bother with. So this should put this "controversial" argument to rest. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 07:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:None of the above hot air addresses the topic of this section, that being the '''tense''' used in the opening sentence. I have fixed it again until Aliweb's roving censor addresses the topic. --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 23:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

::"Subject is" meaning presently as in now. "Subject was" past tense in the past. Aliweb is the web's first and oldest search engine. Aliweb was the web's first and oldest search engine. How can it be "was"? Did the place in time change? So it was first, but now it is something else. Doesn't make sense to me. I obvioulsy want it to be proper and perhaps no one is wording this very well. Perhaps it doesnt' need "is" or "was" it needs to be reworded so that it indicates it "is" still in existence, and is the first search engine in some other way. It is written. It was written. Clinton's according to what the definition of "is" is. hmmmm[[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 08:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

:::Hmm, yeah, OK, but I don't know where someone named Clinton comes into the picture. I see that the version that pre-dates this debacle has been restored and I like that wording even better: "ALIWEB ... can be considered the first Web search engine...." Then again, I suppose it could sound a little "[[Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words|weasely]]". That said, I still stand by my assertion that using the present tense with the previous wording is simply incorrect. You are mixing up two different things in your example above, which was not the wording used. Yes (assuming the fact itself is correct), ALIWEB '''is''' the oldest search engine, but that is the same as saying ALIWEB '''was''' the first search engine. And, for the record, I did try a couple of times ([http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Aliweb&diff=92665995&oldid=88978147] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Aliweb&diff=95796926&oldid=95290499]) to qualify the wording as you suggest, but you chose to delete my efforts. --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 09:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

==[[User:Aliweb]] has improved the sources. Still need checking against WP:RS==
Although I still doubt that a user having the same name as a company should be editing an article about the company, due to our conflict of interest rules [[WP:COI]], I don't object to the goal of improving the sources. (Though these changes were incorrectly marked as being a minor edit). The new sources are indeed better, though they are all from web forums or blogs. I think that [[Wikipedia:Attribution/FAQ]] is a good place to look when deciding if web sources are reliable. Other editors who are still following this article may want to look at that file, and study the new references. I'm not sure yet, but may look at the issue further. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] 21:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:I'm not a Wikipedia expert. This is the first article, and the only article that I have submitted or edited (and through this experience I certainly won't be contributing or starting any new articles - this is just excruciatingly painful and a waste of time). I thought that this information would add to the body of information that is already here and I was a bit surprised that this subject matter had not been covered extensively and that it had not been even mentioned. I didn't start or contribute to this article for advertising purposes - and my prior comments show that actually its contridictory to that goal. This is important subject matter as to how the web developed and I am only interested in presenting facts here no matter who does the contributing/editing.

:I simply copied the format of the previous reference which I did not submit (I didn't know how to do them). Many of the minor edits happen to be from formatting problems. I'm sure at some time I can find some actual physical in print references as I know I have seen them in the past. However, I believe the references I have provided are genuine and accurate. As I have stated earlier the existance of and the fact Aliweb is the first search engine for the web is widely known and I've never heard of it disputed except here. That's why my surpise at this whole discussion. I thought by now we would be discussing some sort of fine detail of some fact instead of debating something that with a few minutes research is so obvious and widely known to most people who know anything about Internet search engines.

:It would be nice to see some actual contributions to the article instead of this debate going on forever. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 01:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

::What about in June 1993 Matthew Gray introduced the World Wide Web Wanderer, which was introduced 3 months before aliweb? check http://www.search-marketing.info/search-engine-history/ [[User:CrazyRob926|CrazyRob926]] 13:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

:::It wasn't searchable - it was designed to measure the growth of the web. However, it was the first "spider" that I know of. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 11:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

::By the way Aliweb, there is always a debate on the first "anything in the world" as far as i have seen in general[[User:CrazyRob926|CrazyRob926]] 13:31, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

:I reformatted the above comments to improve indentation. Thanks to everyone for the improved tone of the discussion. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] 17:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

== Web site http://www.aliweb.com has no documented connection to the original Aliweb ==

That's like saying Google has no documented connection with the original Google. Does it need one? Hello? Can a company or a program be bought and sold, given and taken, deals made, things transfered? Its still the original with upgrades. Stupid argument. The link is back. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 08:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I suggest that the exernal link to www.aliweb.com be removed from the article, as not germane. None of the supplied references even mentions www.aliweb.com, a site operated by Advertising Technologies Corporation. There is no reference to Advertising Technologies Corporation in the article. Two web sites mentioned in the references as containing Aliweb information are http://web.nexor.co.uk/aliweb/doc/aliweb.html, and http://aliweb.emnet.co.uk, but neither of these web sites exists any more. A quick look at www.aliweb.com suggests it's a promotional site.

:promotional site - more of the same old arguments that don't hold any water. Smoke and mirrors. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 08:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

The 2002 blog posting at searchenginewatch.com, one of the article's references, asserts "...Aliweb no longer functions as a search service.." That would imply there is nowhere you can go on the web to perform an Aliweb search. If true that would appear to exclude www.aliweb.com. The latter's search capability, while feeble (since it can't find Google) is nowhere explained or documented as having any connection to Aliweb. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] 23:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

:Or it might be that the person doing the research (or lack thereof) didn't simply type aliweb.com into a browser. {{unsigned|Aliweb|08:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)}}

:Martijn Koster explicitly repudiated the site on his [http://www.greenhills.co.uk/mak/historical.html Historical Web Services]:
::"Note that I have nothing to do with aliweb.com. It appears some marketing company has taken the old aliweb code and data, and are using it as a site for advertising purposes. Their search results are worthless. Their claim to have trademarked "aliweb" I have been unable to confirm in patent searches. My recommendation is that you avoid them."
:The many disservices which the aliweb.com partisans have visited upon what originally began as, and should again become, a small encyclopedic article of historical interest about the early web browser ALIWEB, have included the removal of excerpts from this quote and the removal of the link to Martijn Koster's website. [[User:Athaenara|<span style="font-family: Edwardian Script ITC; font-size: 12pt; margin-left: .05em"> Athænara </span>]] [[User_talk:Athaenara| <small><small> ✉ </small></small> ]] 05:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I started this article. It was about aliweb. Not about a historical aliweb exclusively or a current aliweb. It was about aliweb. All inclusive. The good, the bad, everything. Just the facts please.
<blockquote>
→ <small>''Article created 07:23, 9 May 2004 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Aliweb&diff=prev&oldid=3508580 (diff)] by [[User:64.253.96.252|64.253.96.252]] ([[User talk:64.253.96.252|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/64.253.96.252|contribs]])</small><br />
→ <small>''"Believing that an article has an owner ... is a [[Wikipedia:Avoiding common mistakes|common mistake]] people make on Wikipedia." ([[Wikipedia:Ownership of articles]])''</small><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <small>''(Factoid & pertinent reference contributed by''</small> [[User:Athaenara|<span style="font-family: Edwardian Script ITC; font-size: 12pt; margin-left: .05em"> Athænara </span>]] [[User_talk:Athaenara| <small><small> ✉ </small></small> ]] <small>''03:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC))''</small>
</blockquote>
As I have said in the past, I don't mind the reference to Mr. Koster's website - but to escalate this quote to such prominance in the article just futher emphasizes that the goal here of discrediting the aliweb.com website and developers. Is every opinion that someone writes negative or positive going to be included in every article on wikipedia? Is this suddenly about critics and not facts? The aliweb.com website doesn't reference Mr. Koster at all, positively or negatively. It is true he has nothing to do with the current aliweb.com. That fact has nothing at all to do with the legitimacy of aliweb.com The rest is assumptions/opinions. Here's a quote for you - the current Aliweb developer says the current aliweb.com site is just wonderful. The quote is true - I just typed it - but it has no place in the article. In fact, I would personally delete that too (the so called conflicted of interest one).

You guys will stoop to any level - unbelievable. This article has to be watched EVERY hour of EVERY day for vandalism and negative non-factual and non-researched postings. If you can't discredit aliweb.com one way, you'll find another.

This article was started about one aliweb. The same one that has been around since the beginning of the web. The exact same one. Think people - where did aliweb.com get their database from? How was it compiled? They just get it out of the air somewhere? Of course not. Do some research. I've already pointed you in the right direction. Prove that you don't have a conflict of interest. Actually do some real research on the subject. These posts are so blatently negative and biased against the aliweb.com website that they don't pass the smell test. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 08:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

==Conflict of interest==
I have posted on [[Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard]] about the six aliweb.com-partisan IPs which have disrupted editing here for more than a year. As per standard procedure on that notice board, the section heading there is "[[Aliweb]] {{coi-links|Aliweb}}" which seems impossible to format in a direct link to the section. It will not be difficult to find, though. [[User:Athaenara|<span style="font-family: Edwardian Script ITC; font-size: 12pt; margin-left: .05em"> Athænara </span>]] [[User_talk:Athaenara| <small><small> ✉ </small></small> ]] 05:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
:This diff [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard&diff=100863039&oldid=100696800] will hopefully lead other editors to the information. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] 05:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
::If my post on the WP:COI Noticeboard was not clear enough about the key facts,
::(1) the [[Aliweb]] article is about the historic ALIWEB browser
::(2) the disruptive socks are pushing the very site the original ALIWEB developer repudiates
::then, please, consider a concise post there yourself! [[User:Athaenara|<span style="font-family: Edwardian Script ITC; font-size: 12pt; margin-left: .05em"> —Æ. </span>]] [[User_talk:Athaenara| <small><small> ✉ </small></small> ]] 08:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The article was started and still is about "aliweb". Not a historicl Aliweb or a new Aliweb or one in another dimension. The attempts to discredit aliweb.com without any facts whatsoever (again I suggest you do some research instead of laborously spending time figureing out one way or another to discredit aliweb.com) Again, it doesn't pass the smell test [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 08:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

===Definition of disruptive editing===
<blockquote>
This guideline concerns gross, obvious and repeated violations of fundamental policies, not subtle questions about which reasonable people may disagree.
'''A disruptive editor''' is an editor who:
*'''Is [[Wikipedia:Tendentious editing|tendentious]]''': continues editing an article or group of articles in pursuit of a certain point for an extended time despite opposition from one or more other editors.
*'''Rejects community input''': resists moderation and/or requests for comment, continuing to edit in pursuit of a certain point despite an opposing consensus from impartial editors and/or administrators.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
In addition, such editors may:
*'''Campaign to drive away productive contributors''': violate other policies and guidelines such as [[Wikipedia:Civility]], [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks]], [[Wikipedia:Ownership of articles]], engage in sockpuppetry, meatpuppetry, etc. on a low level that might not exhaust the general community's patience, but that operates toward an end of exhausting the patience of productive rules-abiding editors on certain articles.
</blockquote>
<small>''(Excerpt from [[Wikipedia:Disruptive editing]] provided by''</small> [[User:Athaenara|<span style="font-family: Edwardian Script ITC; font-size: 12pt; margin-left: .05em"> Athænara </span>]] [[User_talk:Athaenara| <small><small> ✉ </small></small> ]] <small>''23:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC))''</small>

===Clarification===
<blockquote>
A Wikipedia '''[[conflict of interest]]''' is an incompatibility between the purpose of Wikipedia to produce a [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutral]] encyclopedia and the individual agendas or aims of editors who are involved with the subject of an article.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
This includes promotion of oneself or other individuals, causes, organizations, and companies you work for, and their products, as well as suppression of negative information, and criticism of competitors.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
If you have a conflict of interest, you should:
# '''avoid editing''' articles related to your organization or its competitors;
# '''avoid breaching''' relevant policies on [[WP:AUTO|autobiographies]] and [[WP:NPOV|neutrality]]
# '''avoid participating''' in [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Deletion_processes|deletion discussions]] about articles related to your organization or its competitors;
# '''avoid linking''' to the Wikipedia article or website of your corporation in other articles (see [[Wikipedia:Spam]]).
</blockquote>
<small>''(Excerpt from [[Wikipedia:Conflict of interest]] provided by''</small> [[User:Athaenara|<span style="font-family: Edwardian Script ITC; font-size: 12pt; margin-left: .05em"> Athænara </span>]] [[User_talk:Athaenara| <small><small> ✉ </small></small> ]] <small>''23:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC))''</small>

===Advertisers===
<blockquote>
"What about advertisers?"
<blockquote>
</blockquote>
There are basically three forms: adding excessive external links to one's company, outright replacing of legitimate articles with advertising, and writing glowing articles on one's own company.
<blockquote>
</blockquote>
The first and second forms are treated as pure [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]] and the articles are [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. Most Wikipedians loathe [[Wikipedia:Spam|spam]], and spammers are dealt with especially severely.
<blockquote>
</blockquote>
The third form is normally dealt with by editing the article for a [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutral point of view]] or by [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleting]] the article.
</blockquote>
<small>''(Excerpt from [[Wikipedia:Replies to common objections#Advertisers]] contributed by''</small> [[User:Athaenara|<span style="font-family: Edwardian Script ITC; font-size: 12pt; margin-left: .05em"> Athænara </span>]] [[User_talk:Athaenara| <small><small> ✉ </small></small> ]] <small>''04:14, 19 January 2007 (UTC))''</small>

== Improvement ==

Athaenara, thanks for your recent improvement in the article, and the restoration of Martijn Koster's comments! With regard to capitalization of Aliweb, note that it is not an acronym (so far as we know), and thus [[WP:MOSCL#All_caps]] encourages us to avoid the use of all caps. Also, since Aliweb is not a currently-working search engine (the service is not available anywhere, according to the blog posting by Chris Sherman in the reference list), I don't think it is necessary to link to [[List of search engines]]. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] 04:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

::The service is available at aliweb.com [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 08:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

::Aliweb is listed in a number of acronym databases on the web. I really don't have a preference as to whether it is capitolized or not - only that the captiolization or lack thereof is proper. Also a seperate section noting the use of it as an acronym might be a more structured and informative way of doing it with seperate references amd only having it with capitols in that small section. [[User:Aliweb|aliweb]] 08:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

:Capitalisation, feh, that was probably part of an allergic reaction to the lower-case website-pushing socks and, no, the article doesn't need to be moved merely to accomodate the all-caps version of the name as it appears in key publications.

:I don't think linking the list is strictly necessary, either, but I do think it is ''useful'' for readers that it's there when they're exploring related subjects. Such an inclusion in a "See also" section does not endorse or define aliweb as an active search engine. [[User:Athaenara|<span style="font-family: Edwardian Script ITC; font-size: 12pt; margin-left: .05em"> Athænara </span>]] [[User_talk:Athaenara| <small><small> ✉ </small></small> ]] 05:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 11:49, 19 January 2024

Untitled

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I think we should list every living soul that is living or dead that is not involved with aliweb so it will be extremely clear all the people that have nothing to do with Alwieb. Don't you agree? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.131.11.143 (talk) 09:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

EL to timeline

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There was a broken external link in the article. When Ed Johnston removed it, he asked in his edit summary "if anyone remembers what this was, or why it relates to Aliweb." It was Jeremy M. Norman's From Gutenberg to the Internet Timeline—here's an unbroken link to it—with a November 30 Aliweb entry under 1993. (The book [ASIN 0930405870] is also cited in Wikipedia:Wikipedia in books#June 2005.)

When the link was added last year, aliweb.com promoters (see Talk:Aliweb/Archive 1) were still chewing on the article and it seemed that every scrap of historical verification was needed to help fend them off. This article is currently a better source than the timeline. The only reason I see to include it is for its placement of Aliweb in chronological context. — Athaenara ✉ 16:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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