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{{Talk header}}
{{WikiProjectCities}}
{{American English}}
== Article improvements forthcoming ==
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1=
I'm starting to work on this article to get it up to [[Wikipedia:Featured articles|a featured article]]. Any help is welcomed, and if you have any suggestions or ideas please pass them along to me on my talk page. Thanks! [[User:PacknCanes|<font color="#cc0000">Pack</font><font color=black>n</font><font color="#b80103">Canes</font>]] | [[User_talk:PacknCanes|<small><i><font color=gray>say something!</font></i></small>]] 09:02, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
{{WikiProject Cities|regional_capital=y}}
{{WikiProject United States|importance=Mid|NC=yes|NC-importance=Top}}
}}
{{To do}}


== Requested move 26 August 2022 ==
== Religious organizations ==
I question the significance of the organizations listed under "Religious Organizations and Churches." One of them, Deeper Devotion Student Ministries, has its own Wikipedia entry, which started out as no more than an advertisement. The same person is responsible for the listing and the Deeper Devotion entry; he or she appears to have contributed nothing else. Could these not be removed without harm? [[User:Flauto Dolce|Flauto Dolce]] 23:49, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)


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The Religious section seemed a little thin and perhaps a little fundamentalist-oriented. I added as much as I could to round it out, trying to stick with churches I knew were stable. Someone please add better Jewish links and any Islamic links. -[[User:Wfaulk|Bitt]] 21:48, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''


The result of the move request was: '''Not Moved''' [[User:Mike Cline|Mike Cline]] ([[User talk:Mike Cline|talk]]) 13:02, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
I'm beggining to think that the relgious section is a mistake because:
----
*It invites every minor league religious institution to post an advertisement on Wikipedia
*It forces us to choose what institutions make it onto the page
*Like most moderatly sized cities in the South, there is a staggering amount of religious institutions
[[User:Reid|Reid]] 05:11, May 17, 2005 (UTC)


[[:Raleigh, North Carolina]] → {{no redirect|Raleigh}} – The city name is the [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]] and already redirects here. [[User:PhotographyEdits|PhotographyEdits]] ([[User talk:PhotographyEdits|talk]]) 10:50, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
== Triangle Metro Zoo ==
I've lived in Raleigh for most of my life and honestly, I've never heard of those sites, nor have I heard of the Triangle Metro Zoo. You'd think that the TWO Imax theaters downtown, the brand new museums, or the warehouse district revitalization would make it onto the list. (I guess I'll add those later and flesh out a "Character" Section)
[[User:Reid|Reid]] 05:59, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)


*'''Oppose''' - I don't think this meets the bar for primary topic, as this [[WP:USPLACE]] may only be highly recognizable within that region, whereas globally, Sir [[Walter Raleigh]] is more recognizable and has [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2015-07&end=2022-07&pages=Walter_Raleigh%7CRaleigh,_North_Carolina at least as many views]. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#cite_note-3 note 3 here] for a comparable example involving "Washington". The current primary redirect may be a bit dubious and could do with some discussion, but its less drastic than moving the article itself. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 13:12, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Agreed. Fleshed out. -[[User:Wfaulk|Bitt]] 22:13, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per [[WP:USPLACE]]. The (oft-debated) convention is to keep the extra disambiguation in the case of American cities. See [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)]]. [[User:162 etc.|162 etc.]] ([[User talk:162 etc.|talk]]) 14:38, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''', it not established that it is the [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]], and it does not meet any exception to [[WP:USPLACE]]. - [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 15:25, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
*:{{No redirect|Raleigh}} already redirects here and has done so since 2012, there was a discussion at [[Talk:Raleigh (disambiguation)#Requested move]] in 2014 which established it was the primary topic. Raleigh is even given as an example at [[WP:NWFCTM]]. '''[[User:Crouch, Swale|<span style="color:Green">Crouch, Swale</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Crouch, Swale|<span style="color:Blue">talk</span>]]) 16:36, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The guidance at [[WP:USPLACE]] in the "Major cities" section has done us well for ''years'' and exceptions are generally not needed. Let me quote the exact wording for all to read, so it is not confusing. "{{tq|Cities listed in the AP Stylebook[2] as not requiring the state modifier in newspaper articles have their articles named "City" unless they are not the primary topic for that name. [3] In other cases, this guideline recommends following the "comma convention" as described above.[4]}}. Raleigh is not one of the cities listed in the AP Style book for not including the state name, and for that reason, we include it in our title. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 15:53, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per Jayron32 and others. And per Netoholic, I think making [[Raleigh]] the dab page or redirecting to the dab page potentially makes sense but is out of scope for this discussion. [[User:Skynxnex|Skynxnex]] ([[User talk:Skynxnex|talk]]) 16:14, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Notwithstanding the guidance at [[WP:USPLACE]] and the explanation on [[Wikipedia:Perennial proposals#Remove state from US placenames]], I also prefer to '''move [[Raleigh (disambiguation)]] to {{noredirect|Raleigh}}'''. There should be no primary topic in terms of long-term significance between the [[Raleigh, North Carolina|American city Raleigh]] and the [[Walter Raleigh|English explorer and statesman Raleigh]]. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] ([[User talk:Zzyzx11|talk]]) 16:28, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
*As already mentioned USPLACE says its common usage even though I personally think its a good idea unless the DAB is moved to the base name. '''[[User:Crouch, Swale|<span style="color:Green">Crouch, Swale</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Crouch, Swale|<span style="color:Blue">talk</span>]]) 16:36, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
*I, too, was surprised to learn this is the primary topic for Raleigh. I would have said [[Walter Raleigh]] was about as famous and pageviews back me up. The dab page should be moved to the base name with the two top Raleighs at the top. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 01:16, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' and also very surprised to find that [[Raleigh (disambiguation)]] isn't at the base line. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 12:37, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' and move [[Raleigh (disambiguation)]] to [[Raleigh]]. No clear primary topic, with the cycle manufacturer and the explorer. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 12:34, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per AP style. Also agree that the city's namesake rivals the shortened title for primary topic attention.-[[User:Indy beetle|Indy beetle]] ([[User talk:Indy beetle|talk]]) 09:09, 2 September 2022 (UTC)


<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
I put in the Triangle Metro Zoo when I found out it existed. I thought it was a neat little thing. I still haven't gone to see if it actually exists outside its web page, but I plan to. Really it seems to be a private business, and not any sort of community zoo. Should it be removed? We don't list all our putt-putt courses and other minor attractions.
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== Pictures ==
As for churches, I don't think it's possible to list all the religious organizations in Raleigh, so listing only a few of them does kind of seem like preferential treatment. Why should we list them at all? Churches are an important part of any community, but people will assume Raleigh has its share of churches without us naming all of them. [[User:Pedro Picasso|Pedro Picasso]] 19:53, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)


I'm sorry, but the pictures on this page by Dennis Ludlow (both of college-age women) seem a little creepy. Does anyone else agree? Or could they be replaced with other pictures of the places being photoraphed? [[User:Ramendoctor|Ramendoctor]] ([[User talk:Ramendoctor|talk]]) 00:03, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
Seems like the "Zoo" is a purely commercial petting zoo type thing. I don't think it is appropriate to list.--[[User:Reid|Reid]] 05:11, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
:I replaced the one in the recreation section because the venue was not mentioned in the text, and the second one because there was already an image of the same university above it. The images are of harmless public activity, but as you mention, seem unsavory when you consider they're by the same author and other options are available. The woman in the university picture looked particularly unwilling to be photographed, and there's no good reason why she should be front and center in a photograph of an entire courtyard. [[User:Unknown Temptation|Unknown Temptation]] ([[User talk:Unknown Temptation|talk]]) 16:30, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

== Tornado ==
About the tornado that touched down west of Raleigh in November 28, 1988. But, I think it was a F4, with more than 200 mph. That motel and also the old K-Mart store is now gone on Glenwood Avenue. I guess the user had it right, the motel was close to the old K-Mart, which is now a cornfield.

Thanks for improving it.

I can't find any support pinning the speed at 260 mph.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 01:04, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== 200% of poverty line ==

This is the link for the census data:

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DTTable?_bm=y&-context=dt&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U&-CONTEXT=dt&-mt_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U_P088&-tree_id=403&-all_geo_types=N&-geo_id=16000US3755000&-search_results=16000US3755000&-format=&-_lang=en

[[User:24.172.249.95|24.172.249.95]] 18:49, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

== crime ==

Why was the crime information deleted?

[[User:LegCircus|LegCircus]] 00:24, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

*For one thing, three sentences don't warrant a full section. Also, what proof is there that "Raleigh has long tolerated prostitution"? Without a source, that statement can't be included. In any case, I'm in the process of completely rewriting the page, so I'll attempt to work the murder rate into the new format of the page. [[User:PacknCanes|<font color="#cc0000">Pack</font><font color="black">n</font><font color="#b80103">Canes</font>]] | [[User_talk:PacknCanes|<small><i><font color="gray">say something!</font></i></small>]] 00:41, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

::For one thing, deletions of entire sections are not a '''m'''inor change. And prostitution on Bragg Street has been recently documented by the News & Observer and the Independent on multiple occassions. These are some sources:

::The Independent 11-9-2005
::The Independent 9-24-2005
::The Raleigh News and Observer 9-20-2005

If you would like additional evidence, I have the public police records for Bragg St for the months between March 2005 and August 2005. There are over 4 dozen ''reports'' of prostitution for this partial period. Or you take a drive down Bragg St any time of day or night. Its just south of MLK, use Blount or Garner, both intersections are heavy traffic. You can take some photos and add them to the page. [[User:LegCircus|LegCircus]] 05:02, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

:Just FYI -- the new Raleigh article, which hopefully will be done in the next week or so, will include information about how southeast Raleigh is the poorer part of the city. I'm a little antsy about including the prostitution information, though, because it seems to be singling out one specific type of crime that's not particularly notable (you said it yourself -- Raleigh isn't much different from any other city in that respect). A low murder rate, however, is notable and I plan to include that. Reference San Jose, California#Law and government and Boston, Massachusetts#Law and government -- murder rates are included, but typically nothing else.

:Also, per the standards set at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities]], ==Crime== should not stand alone as its own section. (See the two articles, both featured, above). I will, though, include it in the ==Law and government== section.

:PacknCanes | say something! 05:24, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Prostitution ''is'' particularly notable, and if you disagree it's probably because your daughter has never brought you a used condom she found in the front yard talking about "Papa I found a balloon."

This article and all articles are the product of community consensus. They are not driven by one person's vision.

I am not currently aware that the greater wikipedia community has approved standards as you see them; I'll look into it.

[[User:LegCircus|LegCircus]] 16:40, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

:The first lines of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities]] say "These are only suggestions, things to give you focus and to get you going, and you shouldn't feel obligated in the least to follow them."

:I will follow your lead in improving the article, but you cannot use WikiProject Cities to eliminate material that does not "conform."

:[[User:LegCircus|LegCircus]] 16:45, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 22:38, 23 January 2024

Requested move 26 August 2022

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved Mike Cline (talk) 13:02, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Raleigh, North Carolina → Raleigh – The city name is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and already redirects here. PhotographyEdits (talk) 10:50, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Pictures

[edit]

I'm sorry, but the pictures on this page by Dennis Ludlow (both of college-age women) seem a little creepy. Does anyone else agree? Or could they be replaced with other pictures of the places being photoraphed? Ramendoctor (talk) 00:03, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I replaced the one in the recreation section because the venue was not mentioned in the text, and the second one because there was already an image of the same university above it. The images are of harmless public activity, but as you mention, seem unsavory when you consider they're by the same author and other options are available. The woman in the university picture looked particularly unwilling to be photographed, and there's no good reason why she should be front and center in a photograph of an entire courtyard. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:30, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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