Talk:Howth

Images

What is the problem with the two images? They appear to have copyright releases attached to them.... JXM 07:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Reinstating them on the page as copyrights are fine. Deadstar 08:33, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

As for the template: Please note that the red dot in the map shows Sutton rather than Howth. Deadstar 08:41, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

This is now fixed by ww2censor - thanks. Deadstar 07:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Broken Wiki markup

I've noticed that the section for "External links" has two edit links - the first refers to the relevant section, but second to the previous one! Not only that, but they appear just over halfway down the section. I've tried to fix the problem, but haven't succeeded. Could someone more experienced than me explain to me what's broken?

The two edit links you see there are caused by the picture placement and are one each for the See also and External links sections. I don't think there is an easy way to fix that without moving the pictures to a different location on the page. I have seen this before and tried to fix it on some other pages but either I am not experienced enough or it is not possible to fix. Their location also depends on the window width of your browser. Try making your browser window much smaller and see what happens! Then go and buy a 30" screen and it will likely look fine. BTW, please sign your comments by adding 4 tildes (~) after your comment. ww2censor 18:39, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation - I wasn't sure what was causing it. I normally sign my contributions, but it slipped my mind that time. Autarch 17:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Socially diverse or affluent?

I think "socially diverse" is a great improvement on "affluent", and I don't understand why it was reverted. Not all of Howth is by any means affluent. I am reinstating "socially diverse". Snalwibma 22:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

"Socially diverse" isn't what first springs to mind when I think of Howth. Perhaps "generally affluent" could be a compromise. Halib Frisk 05:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like we're trying to use these words as polite metaphors for something else. But, semantically speaking, the two terms are basically independent. "Socially diverse" implies variations in family heritage, educational achievement, religious background, and so on. OTOH, "affluent" refers specifically to financial wealth. Why not devise a descriptive sentence that uses both terms? JXM 07:03, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I take your point Jxm but it seems to me that Snalwibma was using "socially diverse" to mean "economically diverse" since he was using it to replace "affluent". Obviously not everyone who lives in Howth is wealthy but the area is significantly less economically diverse than the State as a whole. (according to 2002 census figures for socio-economic group and social class. www.cso.ie) I don't know how to break out census figures at the local level relating to educational attainment but I imagine they would show a similar pattern. It is possible that Howth is slightly more religously or ethnically diverse than the state as a whole but in the absence of any evidence of even relative diversity I'll (respectfully)delete "socially mixed" for the moment. Halib Frisk 07:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Halib! I'm not going to argue about this... On reflection, I suppose anywhere you care to mention is "socially diverse", "mixed", etc to varying degrees! And I concede also that Howth is probably more affluent than your average Irish town/village. But it might be good to anchor the statement in fact somehow, to avoid the appearance of POV pigeon-holing. Could we (I mean you, of course!) construct a note based on CSO data? Snalwibma 10:19, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok I'll try. Unfortunately I don't know how to create a table or insert a chart. I will leave it like this till I find out how to insert a table. The data I found refers to "Persons, males and females aged 15 years and over classified by social class, 2002" and was retrieved from the CSO website. The Irish Govt. retains copyright so someone most experienced might have an opinion on whether or not it is ok to post here. I think its fair use. So far as I can tell "024 Howth" refers to the entire peninsula. The Social Classes used by the CSO are: 1 Professional workers, 2 Managerial and technical, 3 Non-manual, 4 Skilled manual, 5 Semi-skilled, 6 Unskilled, 7 All others gainfully occupied and unknown.

Geographic Area Total 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 State 3,917,203 237,511 1,000,615 645,761 672,892 426,158 220,843 713,423 Leinster 2,105,579 138,620 565,723 352,870 347,983 209,121 109,549 381,713 Dub. Co.and City1,122,821 87,682 313,107 191,822 163,673 98,905 46,883 220,749 024 Howth 8,706 1,197 3,809 1,200 741 433 121 1,205

A doughnut chart illustrates this quite nicely, close to 75% of respondants fall into the first 3 categories for Howth compared to about 50% for the 3 larger geographical areas. Halib Frisk 18:20, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Grace O'Malley

I believe Grace O'Malley's demand was that a seat always be prepared at the dinner table for her or any of her decendants - not any uninvited guests.

Missing Fingal map

Whatever happened to Image:Ireland map County Fingal.png? Autarch (talk) 13:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Architecture section

The following picture links, and more, were added, with an unencyclopedic lead line, as a "section." This is out of order, the more so as no attempt was made to include text. I am leaving these here in case proper use can be made, but note that it is preferred to use free or reuseable images from WP or Commons collections. If more on architecture is needed, the article has a section for features of the area, and I have made a sub-section there, which already has some content, for buildings.

• Heather Cottage
• Journey's End [1] (now 'Big Bamboo') designed by Andy Devane for himself
• Howth House by O'Donnell & Tuomey
• Dane's Hollow
• Tara Hall
• Lighthouse, East Pier
• Bailey Lighthouse
• The Rectory

SeoR (talk) 14:42, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Hill, Ben, or Head?

What are the differences, if any, between the Hill of Howth, the Ben of Howth, and Howth Head — or are they rather careless synonyms?

Even James Joyce in Ulysses mixes up his terms when he describes the scene of the lovemaking and marriage proposal between Leopold Bloom and Marion Tweedy. Joyce writes once only in the novel of the Hill of Howth (in Circe).

Throughout the novel — five times, in fact — Joyce refers to the site of the amorous action as Ben Howth (not the Ben of Howth), among the rhododendrons on the flanks of the Ben. But in the Penelope section, Molly refers to the proposal happening at Howth Head, the only time that phrase is used in the novel.

After what had just happened between Leo and Molly in Joyce's imagination, perhaps she (or the author) had another "head" on the brain — but are there any formal differences between the three terms, and how are any such differences defined? --O'Dea (talk) 22:04, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

They are much the same, I am told. "Ben of Howth" is a poor concoction mixing the Gaelic and English names. Howth in gaelic is Binn Eadar, where Binn means a peak. Think of Ben Nevis in Scotland. Max Kaertner (talk) 11:53, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

• It's a long time ago, but in case anyone checks this again, Howth Head is the whole peninsula, the Hill of Howth is the raised area which dominates the Head, and the Ben of Howth is a very specific section of the Hill (I think it even has its own article). So yes, they are distinct, though only a local or a keen hillwalker might be aware in general. SeoR (talk) 21:37, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Popular culture - Red Rock

Howth has hosted "Red Rock" for a couple of years; way out of my area of expertise but could someone add a couple of lines on this? Any other media, beyond the limited and vague existing points?SeoR (talk) 14:35, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

I do not know much either but I've managed to find to references about in two newspaper articles about it. They could be used as sources.

(TMN81 (talk) 19:58, 1 December 2017 (UTC))

Map

Could someone add in a map of Ireland as a second map TMN81 (talk) 18:13, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Evora Bridge / St Lawrence Day battle

The article could cover this point in brief, having already the Lewis quotation which places the battle and bridge over at Whitewater Brook, while they are often mentally located nearer Howth Castle, for example on the Bloody Stream. I will dig into this.SeoR (talk) 17:56, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Rural

I cannot see how Howth can be considered to be rural. For one thing rural refers to the countryside and being inland. Howth has been coastal forever. For another thing it is 9 miles from Dublin city centre which has been a concrete development since Dyflin and Ath Cliath in 841 which would have taken only half a day to get to on foot and less than half a day on a horse or boat. On the other side near Lusk there was a settlement called Eblana as far back as the time of Ptolemy's maps of Europe in AD150.

In living memory Howth has only had one actual working farm that wasn't owned by Lord Howth and that was Bellingham's farm in Baily.

Financefactz (talk) 13:23, 28 November 2019 (UTC)Financefactz

Head-scratching moment here. Howth was considered rural for most of its history. Rural simply means “not urban” and everything beyond Clontarf, including Raheny, Kilbarrack and Coolock was considered rural when my family moved to St Anne’s in the 1950’s. Of course Howth is not rural now. But did someone suggest that it was? Eblana and Dyflin have no bearing on this simple dictionary-level point. 2A00:1FA0:43B:FCE2:A08A:6E87:4B31:E8B8 (talk) 19:27, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Designations

Good to see the SAAO addressed, and I think we can add some other statuses, such as the candidate NHA, and the Areas of Architectural status; I will seek references.SeoR (talk) 08:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)