Talk:Deal, Kent

Untitled

just thought i would leave a quick note to say that ive added in a like to the Walmer page, as well as the bit about the old navy yard, mainly to make a link to the Time ball page which i created, and know is one of Deals landmarks. Sorry if the stff i added has spelling mistakes in it! Tom.

Not sure how controversial this might be...

...but is Walmer much regarded as a separate village, or as part of Deal? I lived in Deal from 1975 to 1994, and personally never had much call to think of Walmer as a distinct village. A walk along the Strand surely confirms this... or are Walmer residents keen on retaining their nominally individual status? With Kingsdown, of course, there is a degree of separation.

I ask out of genuine interest. ormondroyd

I currently live in Walmer, and I can't honestly answer that question. It is separate in terms of parish boundaries, and it has its own councillors, but it is part of the Deal postal district. Hmmm. I guess I'm going to have to visit the local library again... Stewart Adcock 20:58, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

It's an interesting one. How much do local authority boundaries define the geography of a town or region (e.g. I live in Berkshire which no longer exists as a single government entity, causing much debate on Usenet about whether the county itself "exists". It's definitely still there though... I can see it out of the window). For me it's about the separation. If I walk from Deal Castle to the Lord Clyde I have crossed into Walmer without any "typical" town boundary, which makes me question Walmer's status as an individual entity in modern times. Further inland, the boundary is even more blurred, I'd have said (from the top of Mill Hill towards Dover Road, for instance).

I suppose the same question could be asked of Sholden and Mongeham, although these are arguably small satellite entities on the fringe of the town rather than a large conurbation joined to Deal along a east to west boundary running the length of the town. Ormondroyd 22:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Travelling northward, toward the town centre, the "Welcome to Deal" signpost is near Deal castle, not at the southern outskirt of Walmer. That doesn't really answer the question though. Stewart Adcock 08:17, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I always remember when I was a kid that at the top of the hill on the road from Dover (i.e. just as the houses start) there was the large "DEAL" sign with the Cinque Ports logo, then about 30 yards later there was a smaller "Walmer" sign. Have they moved the former sign north to the castle now? (I only get back once or twice a year and haven't noticed). There's only one way to decide this matter properly and that's to have an angry edit war and flag the article as POV (joke) Ormondroyd 08:29, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

another point is how does History define a place, I can remember when doing a project at school about the towns history to be surpised at walmer (where i currently live)was most definatly a seperate village, therefore I always wight letters like Walmer, Deal, Kent > but if I was short of space, i just omit the walmer as i know that it all goes to deal sorting office no matter what, ans it isnt going to make any diffrence. for genral peposes, Walmer dont realy exist as a seperate enity. Vilage is probably the wrong word, somthingh akin to "district" is more appopiate. a bit like what you get in big cites. you dont get "Walmer Village Councle" like you might do with a seperate village, (not sure on that), but you do get "walmer parish councel", and "walmer in bloome compatisions" personaly, I think novbody considers it a seprate place anymore, as people as close as Dover will tell you... tooto 23:32, 24 July 2005 (UTC) not shure that helps much :-)

This is definitely of interest! I am currently trying to put right the mistaken idea that all named places in Kent are automatically villages if they are not towns/cities. Sholden, although having parish council status (has it?) should be included, IMO, in a part of this article. I have therefore included it with Walmer as part of the town, as can be seen Peter Shearan (talk) 10:02, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps a section discussing where the boundaries are should be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.216.226.50 (talk) 01:03, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Mining industry

Anyone else agree that a section on the town's century or so of coal mining would be relevant? or should there alternatively be a Kent mining industry article which references Deal (if there isn't one already). I can have an attempt if people think it's worth doing. Ormondroyd 09:58, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

It would definitely be a worthwhile addition, but I know almost nothing about the topic! Stewart Adcock 19:44, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

There is a Kent Coal Field page already, with a link to this one Wavy (talk) 10:12, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Official website

I removed the link to the "official town website" because although it exists, it is virtually empty. There is certainly no useful information that would qualify it for inclusion under WP:EL rules. Trying to find anything at all on that website just ends in frustration.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

"...(or Deale or Deal Sands)"

I've never heard of either of these, and there's no citation. Where has it come from? Ormondroyd (talk) 10:58, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

I have removed it pending a reliable reference, it was added an IP user in January. MilborneOne (talk) 11:24, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

References section broken

someone seems to have broken the references section on the main article, the items 4 & 5 are effected. not sure how to fix. 2.216.226.50 (talk) 01:07, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Illegality of crest

Someone might want to deal with this.... Nick Cooper (talk) 23:14, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

That link is to a trivial news story from two years ago. The town council "dealt with it" a few weeks later.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:21, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Deal Cinemas

as a child I lived in Deal from1947-1956 and there were 3 cinemas then, not two as claimed in the entry - The Odeon, The Royal and The Regent 125.209.161.2 (talk) 06:04, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Weather box

User:Martinevans123 User:PaleCloudedWhite I do not think that a settlement should have a weather box referenced to a weather station outside the area concerned, rather weather boxes should only be used if the weather station is inside the area covered by the article. Hence countries and regions could justifiably have one, but not villages nor many towns. The one in the article should be removed, perhaps leaving a link to a page which justifiably includes one. SovalValtos (talk) 12:09, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Fully agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:16, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Use of Photos in the Notable people section

A disagreement arises between myself (ArbieP) and SovalValtos about whether to show four photographs alongside the Notable People section for Deal, Kent. These are the photos in question:

• 
  John Whitaker Hulke, 1870
• 
  James Arbuthnot, 2007
• 
  Norman Wisdom, 1965
• 
  Elizabeth Carter, c.1740

The case in favour is that they add a little colour and life to the words of the article and the mixture of photos makes for an attractive contrast. This is particularly so, for example, between James Arbuthnot and Norman Wisdom.

The case against is that the photographs are better on their linked pages. Using images gives the individuals undue weight, as none of them had a major impact on Deal. They do more to illustrate the individuals than they do for Deal.

Contributors with an interest in Deal, Kent are invited to have their say here

ArbieP (talk) 17:44, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

I am not sure the images add anything to what is an article on Deal, some of the "notable people" have little to do with Deal so adding a picture doesnt really represent an image of Deal that adds to the article. I would vote for not including them. MilborneOne (talk) 20:52, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

I feel sorry for Deal if it's so boring it needs a 1965 black and white photo of Norman Wisdom (taken in Schiphol) to add a little colour and life. But I agree with MilborneOne. It's obvious that Deal is spoilt for choice with famous people, and I don't see how one could fairly choose between them. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Somewhat relevant but I had an issue with Arbie adding these sorts of images on a lot of town articles back in what August or so, Ofcourse I wasn't gonna go on a one man crusade and start reverting however I did have an issue, Arbie seeing as myself and indeed others have an issue it might be better for you to get consensus for your additions instead of simply adding them and getting into a thousand and one disputes with people. –Davey2010 ^{Merry Xmas / Happy New Year} 21:26, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

The case in favour given above is aesthetic, which does not comply with the guidance given in MOS:PERTINENCE, which says images should not be primarily decorative. Incidentally even with adding images for just four of the over 20 Notable People listed, they extend outside the section in desktop view. No objection to the images themselves they are just proposed for the wrong article.SovalValtos (talk) 17:34, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Off topic Walmer content

Deal and Walmer are adjoining but separate towns, Civil Parishes or Communities[1]. The current consensus is that there are separate articles on Deal and Walmer rather than mingling material into one article. User:Lloydmayer wishes to add material relevant to the Walmer article to this one on Deal [2] with the justification that 'Walmer is part of Deal'. Should content in the future be mingled into one article or continue to be kept in two separate articles?SovalValtos (talk) 10:45, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

For the avoidance of doubt, the Royal Marines rifle ranges at Walmer were part of the former RM barracks at Deal. Lloydmayer (talk) 11:00, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Lloydmayer please could you give a source for a rifle range at Walmer. I can only find references to a range along the coast near Oldstairs bay south of Kingsdown,.[3] not one in Walmer The barracks themselves seem to have been in Walmer not Deal.[4].SovalValtos (talk) 11:36, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

From Moonraker: “They scrambled down a steep cliff-path to the beach and turned to the right beside the deserted small-arms range of the Royal Marine Garrison at Deal.” During my time, the RM barracks were always known as RM Deal; RM Depot, Deal; or RMSoM, Deal - though they may have historically been referred to as RM Walmer. Now all converted into flats, apartments, and new-build homes. :-( Lloydmayer (talk) 12:42, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

We now have enough with the Moonraker quote to edit the mention of the Fleming novel without giving undue detail or mentioning off topic settlements such as Kingsdown or Walmer.SovalValtos (talk) 21:05, 12 July 2019 (UTC)