Talk:University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign: Difference between revisions

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Center for Plasma-Material Interactions was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 24 November 2021 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

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Date	Process	Result
September 26, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed

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Varsity Men's Glee Club (University of Illinois) was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 17 February 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Article name

Why is there no 'at' in the article name? "University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign" rather than "University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign"? The latter is stated as the official name of the institution, and seems to be the widely used version. Should it be changed? I am not directly familiar. Onanoff (talk) 01:12, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See Our Name. Dicklyon (talk) 02:07, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

https://illinois.edu/about/index.html branding has changed to not include at. Here's a good blog post: https://aaronson.org/blog/whats-the-name-of-this-university Dipthong01 (talk) 18:43, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wow

This is probably one of the most outrageous RM outcomes I have seen. This goes directly against our MoS, which ignores how institutions brand themselves and what sources use. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:49, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, I missed this RM somehow, and I never noticed the change. It seems many people were unaware, given how few participants there were for a discussion involving a major university. I'd certainly support somebody reopening it. I find this blog post (linked above) unconvincing. –CWenger (^ • @) 23:05, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The RM should have been overturned per WP:RMNOMIN: Any move request that is out of keeping with naming conventions or is otherwise in conflict with applicable guideline and policy, unless there is a very good reason to ignore rules, should be closed without moving regardless of how many of the participants support it. But it's been so long (two years), MR is no longer a noption, so a new RM would have to be opened. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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-== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
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-* [[commons:File:Champaign City Building.jpg|Champaign City Building.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2021-09-10T17:55:42.138337 | Champaign City Building.jpg -->
-Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/city-data images|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 17:55, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 == Article name ==
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 Why is there no 'at' in the article name?  "University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign" rather than "University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign"? The latter is stated as the official name of the institution, and seems to be the widely used version. Should it be changed? I am not directly familiar. [[User:Onanoff|Onanoff]] ([[User talk:Onanoff|talk]]) 01:12, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 :See [https://marketing.illinois.edu/messaging/name Our Name]. [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 02:07, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
+::https://illinois.edu/about/index.html branding has changed to not include at. Here's a good blog post: https://aaronson.org/blog/whats-the-name-of-this-university [[User:Dipthong01|Dipthong01]] ([[User talk:Dipthong01|talk]]) 18:43, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
+== Wow ==
-== Edit war to add two URLs to the infobox ==
-[[User:Cfls|Cfls]] has recently [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=University_of_Illinois_Urbana-Champaign&curid=384695&diff=1091550213&oldid=1091532715 begun] an [[WP:EW|edit war]] to add two URLs to the "website" parameter of the infobox in this article. Their specific reasoning was "Include uiuc.edu as the university affiliates still receive @uiuc.edu emails And the uiuc.edu domain was widely used throughout the campus before the branding project took place. Also, retain the uiuc.edu per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]." I don't have any specific preference for which of the subject's official URLs we use but the infobox is not the place to try to list all of them. Nor is [[WP:COMMONNAME]] relevant to this discussion at all as that policy focuses on the titles of articles. [[User:ElKevbo|ElKevbo]] ([[User talk:ElKevbo|talk]]) 01:00, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
-:I now formally respond to [[User:ElKevbo]]'s statement. First, this editorial battle was all initiated by ElKevbo. Full responsibility rests with ElKevbo. I re-typesetted the name of the university in the infobox in accordance with the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Wikipedia Manual of Style]] to properly segment the university name that is long and does not fit the full university name on one line. To be specific, in this Wikipedia entry, the name of the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign does not fit in the first line of the Infobox. I've tried almost all computer browser size formats, and all I get are "University of Illinois Urbana-" and "Champaign" in the form of a sentence. Such a format is unclear. According to the second paragraph of the Wikipedia Manual of Style, "Editors should ... structure articles with consistent, reader-friendly layouts and formatting." According to this principle, I optimized the typesetting of the university name University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign for this entry, namely "University of Illinois" on the first line and "Urbana-Champaign" on the second line. However, community member ElKevbo, in his own opinion, believes that edits that help the entry name to be more clearly displayed to readers and increase readability should instead "let the browser do its job." This is an extremely absurd view. Members of our Wikipedia community should work together to refine Wikipedia entries and make them more readable and convenient to readers. However, El Kevbo deliberately undermines constructive edits that help make the typography clearer from a personal point of view. Such reversion is improper and contrary to Wikipedia's mission of being "to create and distribute a free encyclopedia of the highest possible quality." Such behavior and views are unacceptable. [[User:Cfls|Cfls]] ([[User talk:Cfls|talk]]) 05:33, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
-::Reverting one boldly made edit is not "an editorial battle." I strongly recommend you review [[WP:BRD]] (and [[WP:EW]]) before making further accusations.
-::What exactly is so important about keeping "Urbana" and "Champaign" on the same line that you are edit warring instead of asking for help? I suspect there are ways to accomplish that without manually adding carriage returns to the article.
-::And why are you insisting that this article include multiple URLs for this subject in the infobox? It's [[WP:ELMIN|long-standing policy]] that we include only one official website unless there are highly unusual circumstances.
-::I recommend that you reconsider your approach to collaboration in this project. Approaching every disagreement as a battle is not going to be a winning approach. More importantly, you are required to [[WP:AGF|assume good faith]] of other editors; accusing other editors of "deliberately undermin[ing] constructive edits" is not only a poor way to collaborate but will likely lead to you being blocked if you continue that behavior. [[User:ElKevbo|ElKevbo]] ([[User talk:ElKevbo|talk]]) 05:56, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
-:::Dear Wikipedia community members,
-:::I will now issue a specific fact sheet on [[User:ElKevbo|ElKevbo]]'s allegations.
-:::The United States has one of the best higher education systems in the world. Many states have established their own institutions of higher education, using geographical names as the distinction between branch campuses. For example, the [[University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign]], with the world's top computer science school. The name of this university is very long.
-:::Wikipedia has a very good screen size adjustment mechanism, which can adapt to various computer and mobile phone sizes for easy reading. Meanwhile, in the case of an entry such as University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, no personal computer's browser in the world can display the name of the school in its entirety on one line at the top of the Wikipedia entry information box. The most common display currently is to display "University of Illinois Urbana-" on the first line and "Champaign" on the second line. Obviously, this is not the way people usually use sentence segmentation.
-:::In daily life, the way people use sentence segmentation is "University of Illinois" and "Urbana-Champaign." This is people's language-using habit. In the second paragraph of the main text of the Wikipedia Manual of Style we can see, "Editors should ... structure articles with consistent, reader-friendly layouts and formatting." Following this principle, I optimized the display of school names above the entry information box for the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign to match popular perception. Therefore, in this entry, "University of Illinois" is displayed on the first line, and "Urbana-Champaign" is displayed on the second line. This is in line with people's common perception.
-:::The same applies to some of the University of California campuses with longer names, such as University of California, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, and San Diego. Such typographic optimization is to allow our readers to read our articles better and get information more easily.
-:::ElKevbo states his own personal opinion. This community member argues that the typesetting editing behavior that makes it easier for readers to read the Wikipedia entries for universities with unusually long names should give way to "let the browser do its job." We strongly affirm and acknowledge that Wikipedia's automatic typesetting system is excellent. At the same time, we need to pay attention to the fact that we should give correct line breaks to improve readability when faced with a university name that cannot be read in two words such as Cornell University. We know that in any case, the school names such as University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign cannot be displayed in one line, so we should take the initiative to solve this situation. What I'm stating is by no means a distrust of Wikipedia's automatic typesetting. Instead, I'm trying to make Wikipedia entries better by editing them.
-:::The views expressed by ElKevbo is not acceptable. We should take into account the specific circumstances of each entry, and appropriately present what is described in the circumstances. We respect the Wikipedia Manual of Style as a community guide for all editing.
-:::Thank you. [[User:Cfls|Cfls]] ([[User talk:Cfls|talk]]) 06:18, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
-:::'''I highly recommend that you also assume good faith with the rest of the community.''' What I felt from your initial revertion was the disrespectful tone of the other members of the community. Did you discuss it before revert? Have you considered my editing to make this entry more readable? Your words tell me that you don't think other people's edits are constructive, and you think other people's edits are sabotage on these entries. But, I'm curious to know, do you really see my efforts to make these entries clearer? Obviously, you don't. Also, you mentioned about the so-called account ban. I would love to know where I am not respecting you. I have always been adhering to the fact that we can build Wikipedia entries together. However, you start citing irrelevant content to defend your point. Let's get back to the question itself: '''Does adding appropriate and helpful line breaks help readers read the article better?''' If yes, then it is not necessary for us to raise more diverse discussions on this issue. If not, I would be more than happy to discuss this issue in depth with you on an ongoing continuous basis. [[User:Cfls|Cfls]] ([[User talk:Cfls|talk]]) 06:18, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
-Let's return to the issues at hand.
-Our colleagues at [[WT:MOS]] have provided several suggestions on how to insert or prevent line breaks. It's clear that manually adding a line break in the middle of this title, here and in other articles that you've also edited, is not in line with our practices or policies. Please let us know what you are trying to do and which of the options provided may achieve that goal.
-Please address the apparent violation of [[WP:ELMIN]]. Which of the two URLs should remain in this article? [[User:ElKevbo|ElKevbo]] ([[User talk:ElKevbo|talk]]) 20:56, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
-:Essentially, uiuc.edu only remains as a redirect URL. The university's original internet hub was uiuc.edu, but the transition to illinois.edu started [https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/211289 all the way back in 2008]. For emails, the situation is a more complicated; every user has both a @uiuc.edu and a @illinois.edu address, but both addresses share the same inbox. Basically, "johnsmith@uiuc.edu" will send to the same inbox as "johnsmith@illinois.edu." However, the university does not actively promote the existence of @uiuc.edu email addresses; they are historical artifacts more than anything else. Note that the [https://directory.illinois.edu/facultyListing campus faculty listing] only displays @illinois.edu addresses, and the [https://sts.illinois.edu/adfs/ls/?client-request-id=983ce391-f1c0-07f3-7ff3-db20da4b2a1d&wa=wsignin1.0&wtrealm=urn%3afederation%3aMicrosoftOnline&wctx=LoginOptions%3D3%26estsredirect%3d2%26estsrequest%3drQIIAY2RP4zSYADF-1GuB6iR3DncYiTG6ZLSfu13_RdNxMKdd2CAesjFhUD_0FLaD9pycCxuxs1zM44ODowuGqabb2JGB6PL6eKfWxwchLi46cvLy1vf722SMAuVG-wfcfQyadayIK2by_aXgrVU-tmnm89Pvp-vPjp_l5kXN69OwDU7inqhwjB4EHUxdrPYshzdzOrYY_CwybwFYAbAGQCTmCjwooAgz28hAfGIg1swq_MWkkRBpvWWiWgERYtuIl2mRdiCEo9kwZDFeexyOTeIbG4ZOHDG5o9Y0sKB1-jhMHpBNvJ6ONrGuXY-p2ls2Rjths1Q3XfLuHS_fhBJNUsM9orNGiypBcutV_s9T9XUYXDnSLMOq0fNft-o4PzQDt1Rf8fl7_pFX5X5g6JU573GAx9NyP_i85qkFqM97J-SFO6ZvmN8JNd1Gzu8eNvpdh0fO2HWNAazOPgQB1_iF1lSSSRSaWKDyBA_4-DlygLwV_9x--lOp_Tm88ar6ftf4HSF8czWUN4bmYV7mrS_PQ56lXy1IHslj2PHTr5j2IeFTi2q7rbH7C2kwGMKHFPUlEomyDRxnVQr8IwC3yjwZJWYJv_11jx1hWM5SLMSzcoZKCsLs_LD2QVwcon4DQ2&cbcxt= email login portal] suggests @illinois.edu in the address field. Overall, given that the university does not actively promote the existence of the uiuc.edu domain for either URLs or email address, I think the Wikipedia article should only include illinois.edu.  [[User:Chevsapher|Chevsapher]] ([[User talk:Chevsapher|talk]]) 16:05, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
-::It's been over a week, so I'm going to move forward with removing the uiuc.edu link from the infobox. [[User:Chevsapher|Chevsapher]] ([[User talk:Chevsapher|talk]]) 23:44, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
+[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:University_of_Illinois_Urbana-Champaign/Archive_2#Requested_move_9_April_2021 This] is probably one of the most outrageous RM outcomes I have seen. This goes directly against our MoS, which ignores how institutions brand themselves and what sources use. [[User:InfiniteNexus|InfiniteNexus]] ([[User talk:InfiniteNexus|talk]]) 21:49, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
-== Alumni should be alumni, not transfers out ==
+:Agreed, I missed this RM somehow, and I never noticed the change. It seems many people were unaware, given how few participants there were for a discussion involving a major university. I'd certainly support somebody reopening it. I find [https://aaronson.org/blog/whats-the-name-of-this-university this blog post] (linked above) unconvincing. <span class="nowrap">–[[User:CWenger|CWenger]]</span> ([[User talk:CWenger|<span style="font-family:Webdings;"><big>^</big></span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/CWenger|<span style="font-family:Webdings;"><big>@</big></span>]]) 23:05, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
-Jesse Jackson and Larry Ellison are not UIUC alumni. Notes to that effect serve only to make it clear that they do not belong in the alumni list. [[User:Barefoot through the chollas|Barefoot through the chollas]] ([[User talk:Barefoot through the chollas|talk]]) 22:07, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
+::The RM should have been overturned per [[WP:RMNOMIN]]: {{tqq|Any move request that is out of keeping with naming conventions or is otherwise in conflict with applicable guideline and policy, unless there is a very good reason to ignore rules, should be closed without moving regardless of how many of the participants support it}}. But it's been so long (two years), MR is no longer a noption, so a new RM would have to be opened. [[User:InfiniteNexus|InfiniteNexus]] ([[User talk:InfiniteNexus|talk]]) 01:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
-*By every definition and technical definition, Jesse Jackson and Larry Ellison are both alumnis because they were admitted to a degree program, matriculated into the university, physically atennded classes and attempted/completed tests/exams/miodterms/finals at the university for seeveral courses for a semester or even longer.
-*In the [[United States]], if a student transferred out or in does not matter. [[Bill Gates]] and [[Mark Zuckerberg]] were admitted to [[Harvard College]] but did not complete their degree and were never awarded degrees by [[Harvard University]]. Honorary degrees doesn't count. Their names are prominently named and shown with pictures on [[Harvard University]] main wiki page. This goes same for [[Warren Buffett]] who did not complete his degree at [[University of Pennsylvania]].