Jump to content

Talk:Heteromeles: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous edit
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
Implementing WP:PIQA (Task 26)
 
(27 intermediate revisions by 8 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{talk header}}
⚫
{{WikiProject Plants|class=start|importance=mid}}

⚫
{{WikiProject California|class=Start|importance=Mid}}
{{dyktalk|6 November|2004|entry=...that collecting '''[[Toyon]]''' branches for [[Christmas]] became so popular in [[Los Angeles, California]] in the [[1920s]], that the state passed a [[law]] forbidding collecting?}}
{{dyktalk|6 November|2004|entry=...that collecting '''[[Toyon]]''' branches for [[Christmas]] became so popular in [[Los Angeles, California]] in the [[1920s]], that the state passed a [[law]] forbidding collecting?}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|
==Initial ratings for Wikiproject California set forth==
⚫
{{WikiProject Plants|importance=Mid}}
I have attached a tag identifying this article as part of Wikiproject California and established initial ratings as follows:
⚫
{{WikiProject California|importance=Mid}}

{{WikiProject Oregon |importance=Low}}
*class:Start
{{WikiProject Mexico |importance=Low}}
*Based upon:
}}
**NPOV: Pass
**References:Fair
**Images:Fair
**Breadth:Beyond stub, but needs more on range and ecological significance to approach GA
**Wikification:Pass

*importance:Mid
**Based upon the fact that this is a prominent native shrub fairly broadly distributed and associated with many other ecological interactions. [[User:Anlace|Anlace]] 04:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Several book excerpts online mention this plant as California holly. Furthermore, it supposedly is the catalyst for the seasonal mass intoxication of robins. Anyone have any credible information to offer about this? [[User:129.120.8.198|129.120.8.198]] 00:46, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

:While it is certainly correct that the botany books always mention "California holly" as an alternate name, in modern usage it is only "toyon", at least that I've heard. The berries are small, bright red, prominent in December, and the leaves are slightly holly-like, so the name is obvious, even if increasingly obscure. It is also noted in books (and verified by original research) that a small flock of birds can strip the ripe berries from a bush very quickly. Perhaps the robins are more overloaded than drunk, but I haven't seen any studies on this. However I do recall that the local tribes are supposed to have brewed an cider from the cooked berries, so it may have be a natural progression. It may not take much to get a robin tipsy. -[[User:Willmcw|Willmcw]] 10:00, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

::Agreed with Toyon as the best name to use; "California holly" implies it is a species of holly (''Ilex''), which it isn't - [[User:MPF|MPF]] 23:02, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

== Christmasberry ==

An external reference (Collin's, I think) identifies the Christmasberry as ''Photinia arbutifolia'', reinforcing the identification in this article as "Christmas berry" (two words). However, both [[Schinus]] and [[Boxthorn]] claim identity with "Christmas berry". What's the deal here - is this something regional maybe? I am not a botanist; I just tripped over this one in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles]]. [[User:DavidBrooks|David Brooks]] 00:31, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

==Oh, what a flower==
Can anybody say what the origin of the word toyon is? [[User:Trekphiler|<font color="#1034A6"><small>TREKphiler</small></font>]] [[User talk:Trekphiler|<font color="#1034A6"><sup><small>hit me ♠</small> </sup>]]</font> 10:18, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

:"Etymology: AmSp, also tollon, prob. < Nahuatl name"[http://www.yourdictionary.com/toyon]--[[User:Curtis Clark|Curtis Clark]] ([[User talk:Curtis Clark|talk]]) 02:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

::('''very belated''' *whew*) Thanx. [[User:Trekphiler|<font color="#1034A6"><small>TREKphiler</small></font>]] [[User talk:Trekphiler|<font color="#1034A6"><sup><small>any time you're ready, Uhura</small> </sup>]]</font> 02:33, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

::: It's from the [[Ohlone]] language, orignally "tottcon". http://jeanmarshdesign.com/?p=249 [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 21:01, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

==Toyon berries?==
The berries in the photo look suspiciously like rowan berries. Is everyone sure this is really toyon? If you search for "toyon" on the Internet, the images that come up look slightly different. I am not a botanist, but even the leaves of the plant in the main picture look different from the leaves in the "Toyon berries" picture. Just wondering. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/199.89.103.13|199.89.103.13]] ([[User talk:199.89.103.13|talk]]) 01:24, 15 February 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Good catch! Yes, that does look like ''Sorbus''. I wonder if it was the rootstock of a grafted tree whose top had died. i've removed the image, since I don't see a good substitute. [[User:Nadiatalent|Nadiatalent]] ([[User talk:Nadiatalent|talk]]) 13:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

::[[:File:Starr 021126-0031 Heteromeles arbutifolia.jpg]]: This file does not look like Heteromeles arbutifolia to me. The leaves are not serrated for one thing, and the berries are all wrong. If anyone thinks differently let me know, otherwise I'll post a note on the file's discussion page. &nbsp; <b>[[User:Will Beback|<font color="#595454">Will Beback</font>]]&nbsp; [[User talk:Will Beback|<font color="#C0C0C0">talk</font>]]&nbsp; </b> 20:21, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:::The above image is definitely not ''H. arbuitfolia''! Good catch. --[[User:NoahElhardt|NoahElhardt]] ([[User talk:NoahElhardt|talk]]) 04:00, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Strangely, it's identified on the source as ''Photinia davidiana'' Photinia.[http://www.hear.org/starr/images/image/?q=021126-0031&o=plants] Either the identification was fixed, or there was a mistake in the uploading process. &nbsp; <b>[[User:Will Beback|<font color="#595454">Will Beback</font>]]&nbsp; [[User talk:Will Beback|<font color="#C0C0C0">talk</font>]]&nbsp; </b> 06:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::I'm confused. We're talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heteromeles_arbutifolia_fruit.jpg, no? I haven't figured out how to put comments on images, so if someone can enlighten me that would be a big help. [[User:Nadiatalent|Nadiatalent]] ([[User talk:Nadiatalent|talk]]) 13:18, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::Oh, I didn't know that was the picture in question. I agree it looks mis-identified. The photographer is an active editor. I'll leave a note on his talk page. &nbsp; <b>[[User:Will Beback|<font color="#595454">Will Beback</font>]]&nbsp; [[User talk:Will Beback|<font color="#C0C0C0">talk</font>]]&nbsp; </b> 19:35, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Hmmm..... Until I just saw the native elevation for ''Heteromeles arbutifolia'', I thought my photo was that plant based on these photos from CalPhotos (UC Berkeley):[http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0102+0287] [http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=8253+3202+4138+0012] [http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0503+0338] They show a very similar plant, with serrated leaves, which are not so exaggeratedly opposite as the Rowan. My photo was of a wild shrub, growing in open forest at about 6,000 ft - now I see that it is generally considered native up to 4,000 ft. But the CalPhotos images are a puzzle, since they seem so similar. [[User:First Light|First Light]] ([[User talk:First Light|talk]]) 20:50, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::The leaves of Heteromeles appear to be relatively longer than Rowan leaves, more leathery (or less translucent), and to be less deeply serrated. &nbsp; <b>[[User:Will Beback|<font color="#595454">Will Beback</font>]]&nbsp; [[User talk:Will Beback|<font color="#C0C0C0">talk</font>]]&nbsp; </b> 21:01, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::Rowan has compound leaves (it is the leaflets that are opposite). I tend to think that the plant in question has compound leaves; the lef/leaflet that covers the left side of the infructescence doesn't appear to have a bud in its axil (this is one of the quickest ways to tell a leaflet from a leaf). There are a few ''Sorbus'' species in California, and they are all at higher elevations than toyon, so it might be one of those.--[[User:Curtis Clark|Curtis Clark]] ([[User talk:Curtis Clark|talk]]) 01:40, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


== Link it to other wiki languages, i don't know what's wrong ==
Was this plant growing in California? Do you have any other photos, for example a view of the buds? Here's an attempt to identify that single photo using McAllister, H.A. 2005. ''The genus Sorbus: Mountain Ash and other Rowans''. Kew Publishing. Identifications using this book will differ from older work, because the author has been somewhat drastic in lumping some earlier taxa into a ''Sorbus californica'' aggregate (based on knowing that they are tetraploid, asexual, and not geographically distinct from one another). The possibilities for western North America are ''S. scopulina'' (including ''S. dumosa''), ''S. californica'' aggregate, ''S. occidentalis'', ''S. sitchensis''.
''S. scopulina'' is not found west of the crest of the Cascade Mountains; ''S. californica'' could match, and does occur west of the crest of the Cascades; ''S. occidentalis'' leaf toothing doesn't match the description; ''S. sitchensis'' has more elongate fruit;


* Asturianu
:That was the only photo I saved, and the plant is in a fairly remote area in California. The Calflora website narrows the choices for that area down to ''californica'' and ''scopulina'', though I'm not sure whether they over-limit the ''Sorbus'' species found in that specific area: [http://www.calflora.org/cgi-bin/specieslist.cgi?where-prettyreglist=Sierra&where-namesoup=sorbus&where-caltranslifeform2=any&where-native=any&rel-rarity=invalue&where-rarity=any&rel-calipc=gte&rel-upper_elev_ft=gt&where-upper_elev_ft=&rel-lower_elev_ft=lt&where-lower_elev_ft=&where-pretty_plantcomm=any&orderby=taxon] In the meantime, I've requested the filename be change to "sorbus species.jpg". [[User:First Light|First Light]] ([[User talk:First Light|talk]]) 18:22, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
* Català
::The photo has moved now, and I can't find it. Apart from different ploidy level, reproductive behaviour, seed colour, and hairiness of the buds, ''S. scopulina'' is a bit smaller and with somewhat smaller leaves than ''S. californica'', and less handsome. It seems that the only way to be sure which of those species this is is by whether it was found east or west of the crest of the Cascades, and perhaps you don't have that information. [[User:Nadiatalent|Nadiatalent]] ([[User talk:Nadiatalent|talk]]) 23:13, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
* Deutsch
:::Here's the new link to the photo: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sorbus_species.jpg]. The plant was well east of the Cascades, and getting close to the crest of the Sierra Nevada, on the west side of the crest. The plant was probably 6-8 ft. tall, going only by memory. [[User:First Light|First Light]] ([[User talk:First Light|talk]]) 01:27, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
* Español
* Suomi
* Russian
* Français
* Svenska
* Winaray


all have Heteromeles pages unlinked --[[User:Dignitee|Dignitee]] ([[User talk:Dignitee|talk]]) 04:12, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
==Range Map==
Range map is missing species presence in the eastern San Francisco Bay Area. Speaking from personal experience in western Contra Costa County, it is well represented in the flora here. http://www.inaturalist.org/listed_taxa/56472 [[Special:Contributions/74.78.92.118|74.78.92.118]] ([[User talk:74.78.92.118|talk]]) 05:26, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:32, 10 February 2024

[edit]
  • Asturianu
  • Català
  • Deutsch
  • Español
  • Suomi
  • Russian
  • Français
  • Svenska
  • Winaray

all have Heteromeles pages unlinked --Dignitee (talk) 04:12, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heteromeles&oldid=1205847282"