Jump to content

Talk:Iranian Americans: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous edit
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
m Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Iranian Americans/Archive 2) (bot
Cewbot (talk | contribs)
Bots
7,482,128 edits
m Maintain {{WPBS}}: 4 WikiProject templates. Keep majority rating "C" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 3 same ratings as {{WPBS}} in {{WikiProject United States}}, {{WikiProject Iran}}, {{WikiProject Ethnic groups}}.
 
(18 intermediate revisions by 11 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Skip to talk}}
{{Skip to talk}}
{{Talk header}}
{{Talk header}}
⚫
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|1=
⚫
{{WikiProject United States|importance=low}}
⚫
{{WikiProject Iran|importance=mid}}
{{WikiProject Ethnic groups|importance=low}}
⚫
{{WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors|user=Dhtwiki|date=January 28–31, 2017}}
⚫
}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}}
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}}
Line 11: Line 17:
}}
}}


== Ministry of Iran? ==
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
⚫
{{WikiProject United States|class=C|importance=low}}
⚫
{{WikiProject Iran|class=C|importance=mid}}
⚫
{{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=C}}
⚫
{{GOCE|user=Dhtwiki|date=January 28–31, 2017}}
⚫
}}
{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Chapman_University/Migration_in_World_History_(Fall_2020) | assignments = [[User:Sabrinag20|Sabrinag20]] | start_date = 2020-08-31 | end_date = 2020-12-19 }}

== New Additions ==

Hello!

I am planning to make some additions to this Wiki Page using data from the Public Affairs Alliance of Iranian Americans 2019 survey. The reputable survey is administered by the Zogby Research Services group. Past versions of the PAAIA survey have already been utilized on this page, but I think the 2019 survey contains valuable new information on the Iranian American community that would further enhance this page. Overall, I will add 200-300 words.

I will add content about Iranian American opinions and fears on foreign policy and discrimination in recent years under the Trump administration under the “Politics” and the “Discrimination” sections. I will discuss how 75% of Iranian Americans surveyed by PAAIA view the Trump Administration’s Iranian foreign policy negatively (Zogby 10). Similarly, I will elaborate on the travel ban and how most Iranian American respondents in the survey oppose the travel ban, with 70% of respondents being personally affected or have family and friends affected by the ban (Zogby 10). Also, the current "Politics" section states that over half of Iranian Americans find domestic issues the most important, but the 2019 survey found that 50% of respondents considered foreign policy most important when voting (Zogby 7). I will also add that in 2016, over half of respondents voted for Hillary Clinton and over half also plan to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2020 (Zogby 7-8).

Additionally, I will amend the content in the “Ties to Iran” sub-section on the Wikipedia page. This subsections contain a lot of great information, but I think it would be a good idea to use updated data from the 2019 PAAIA survey. In this section I will add that in the 2019 survey, 41% of respondents said they contacted loved ones in Iran several times a week (Zogby 1). I will also add how 74% prefer phone calls, but also how communication over mobile communications apps and internet services has increased to 69% and 66% respectively (Zogby 3-4).

If anyone has any comments on my proposed changes please reach out here or on my Talk Page!

Thank you!
[[User:Sabrinag20|Sabrinag20]] ([[User talk:Sabrinag20|talk]]) 07:19, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

== Request of Revision ==

I have read the article about Iranian Americans and my first impression is that it is very biased. It based on incorrect assumptions, unprofessional material is used as a reference that reminds of the motive to increase the presence and "prestige" of Iranians in the USA artificially, not reflecting the actual situation properly.

Examples include, "Iranian Americans are among the most highly educated people in the United States." Iranians or Persians are not of western cultural heritage, while the main domain of education and intelligence origins in the white or European population, especially of British ancestry, as nearly all of the top elite universities in the United States were founded on the model and principles of elite universities in the United Kingdom. This claim can therefore not be justified.

Furthermore, the Wikipedia article states that 20 % of the population of Beverly Hills are of Persian ancestry. I do not believe this. Beverly Hills is a high society area. Persians and Iranians origin in 3rd world nations. I find it difficult to believe that 20 % of the population of one of the most wealthiest areas in the United States shall have 3rd world ancestry.

It seems to me that this article is more based on wish thinking, forcefully pushing Iranians and Persians into the high cultural society of those of white, British and other European ancestry. Especially in the context of historic technological, sociological and human evolution is this article in no way reflecting the reality of people with Persian or Iranian ancestry. Analphabetism, lack of access to basic education and it's development, lack of basic sanitation and other technological developments as well as especially lack of scientific development in the Persian culture alongside other underdeveloped civilian infrastructure areas cause Persians to receive through this article a completely misleading impression.

The most important part is the hostile religious, political, and affiliation allegiances, not just of Iran but of Iranians and Persians alike with a mentality for, convictions and believes in international terrorism, hate for Jews as well as the West.

It seems to me that the article is based on the life's of a few US Americans with Persian ancestry who want to declare their constellation in being of mixed western and Iranian origin that defines 0.0005 % or less of the Persian population who want to declare their origin as representative for 100 % of all Persians.

When then numbers and content suggests that Persians "build" or defined the modern United States reminds this simply of propaganda coming close to the insanity of Aryanism.

This article needs much more realism especially concerning Persian political, security and affiliation allegiances with terrorist affiliations on a cultural level.

These clarifications and revisions are necessary in order to have a Wikipedia article that truly represents the real situation.

This article must be revised to match more the Wikipedia article concerning Iran - United States relations. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.106.12.72|81.106.12.72]] ([[User talk:81.106.12.72#top|talk]]) 13:49, 9 February 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

UPDATE:


Why is an Iranian source taken over the actual American source? It shouldn't be in the header at all, this is an american article and american sources say there are half a million Iranians. It should be a footnote down in the article, not up top where an obviously biased government would want to claim there are many iranians in american.[[Special:Contributions/71.191.159.69|71.191.159.69]] ([[User talk:71.191.159.69|talk]]) 22:00, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
I have just found this statement "Research has furthermore indicated that Iranian-Americans who are Muslim are more open to intermarry than those who are members of religious or ethnic minorities, such as Jews and Armenian". Iranian Islamic Americans that are more open to marry non Iranian Moslems are more open than Jews to marry non Jews? This is Aryanism and anti Jewish propaganda reflecting in no way reality.


:Enlighten me, what makes this an "American article"? [[User:Praxidicae|<span style="color: white; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(red, orange, green, blue, indigo, violet)">PRAXIDICAE🌈</span>]] 22:01, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
This article needs to be revised. It includes elements of Aryanism and Antisemitism using false scientific research data for claims that shall benefit Iranians and Islam on the cost of Jews especially suggesting that Jews are a minority in the United States but not Iranians or Moslems. The cultural impact of Iranians or Islam, except concerning the attacks of 11 September, is ridiculous compared to the cultural impact of Jews in the United States. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.106.12.72|81.106.12.72]] ([[User talk:81.106.12.72#top|talk]]) 13:36, 9 February 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


== Pro-Iranian Bias in this Article ==
:You're right that the article is somewhat boosterish, but if phrases such as "among the most highly educated people" are supported by statistics, then we should allow it. Pointing out that a certain percentage living in Beverly Hills is one-sided if we don't point out the percentage living in lesser housing, but is that percentage wrong? Reading through your text, I see some over-generalizations of your own. Can you cite sources for your assessments? In short, what specific changes do you propose and what sources back up your assertions? [[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 19:05, 9 February 2021 (UTC)


The fact that Iranian Americans are more "successful" by some socio-economic measures is likely due to the specific conditions that allowed for travel and immigration of only a very narrow selection of people. I've tried to edit this article and it's been reverted to the original. I think it's important to note that many Iranian Americans are political refugees--not economic ones. Or they are related to or descendants of pre-1979 Iranians with student visas--again a relatively privileged and highly selective group. [[User:Damoname|Damoname]] ([[User talk:Damoname|talk]]) 20:13, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
::This is some serious self-formulated [[WP:FORUM]] stuff, bordering [[WP:TENDENTIOUS]]. - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 17:27, 10 February 2021 (UTC)


:Hi, thank you for commenting. Can you provide some potential sources/links for this statement? If you have independent sources, you can work on adding it into the article in a way that may not get reverted (assuming it's true and improves the article, etc) [[User:Apathyash|Apathyash]] ([[User talk:Apathyash|talk]]) 01:27, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
== 1,500,000 Iranian Americans probably false ==
::The Migration Policy Institute finds that early arrivals of Iranian to the US "consisted mainly of international students along with professionals and tourists." Following the revolution, "These new arrivals included upper- and middle-class Iranians as well as religious and ethnic minorities such as Baháʼís and Armenians. At the same time, many Iranian students in the United States remained in the country after graduation."
::https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iranian-immigrants-united-states
::Another article cited below explains some of the trends in Iranian-American immigration patterns, pointing out that "Immigrants from Iran began to arrive in the U.S. in the early 20th century, often members of the country’s religious minorities, including Armenian and Assyrian Christians and Jews." Later, after the Iranian Revolutiuon of 19798, "U.S. immigration law gave precedence to family members of U.S. residents, allowing Iranians already settled in America to bring over spouses, parents and children" https://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/mapping-the-iranian-diaspora-in-america#:~:text=Between%201978%20and%201980%2C%20more,to%20several%20sources%2C%20Harris%20said. [[User:Damoname|Damoname]] ([[User talk:Damoname|talk]]) 16:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


== Opening paragraph ==
I Highly doubt that this number is true, there is only a Iranian Source for that which is difficult to check. There are no way 1,500,000 Iranians in the US. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sethgecko22|Sethgecko22]] ([[User talk:Sethgecko22#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sethgecko22|contribs]]) 02:46, 2 July 2021 (UTC)</span>


Shouldn't the opening sentence be simplified to something like "{{tq|Iranian Americans are Americans of Iranian ancestry}}"? The current wording seems somewhat clunky "{{tq|Iranian Americans are citizens or nationals of the United States who are of Iranian ancestry or who hold Iranian citizenship.}} Short description even states: {{tq|U.S. citizens of Iranian ancestry}}.
== Problem with Lede ==


If we're being technical, then every single "[ethnicity]-American" term should have sentences denoting dual citizenship. Many countries allow dual citizenship. But many "[insert ethnicity] American" pages don't state this in the opening sentence. Usually just that it refers to Americans of whatever ancestry. Or some variation of that wording. Whether this is referring to [[Irish Americans]], [[German Americans]], [[Filipino Americans]], [[Swedish Americans]], [[Lebanese Americans]], [[Mexican Americans]], [[Japanese Americans]], [[Indian Americans]], [[Bangladeshi Americans]] and countless other pages.
First sentence presents Iranian and Persian as being equivalent: "Iranian Americans or Persian Americans". However these two words refer to distinct things.
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Persian Persian]: " 1 : one of the people of Persia: such as
a : one of the ancient Iranians who under Cyrus and his successors founded an empire in southwest Asia
b : a member of one of the peoples forming the modern Iranian nationality"
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Iranian Iranian]: " 1 : a native or inhabitant of Iran"


Looking at past discussion and the hidden comment, the issue seemed to be about the terminology debate between "Iranian Americans or Persian Americans" but I'm not really talking about that. [[User:Clear Looking Glass|Clear Looking Glass]] ([[User talk:Clear Looking Glass|talk]]) 07:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
Put more simply Persian is an ethnic group where as Iranian refers to a nationality. Thus you can be Persian but be from Afghanistan, or Tajikistan etc. And by the same token you can be Iranian but not Persian, which is the case for about 35-40% of the population of Iran, there are many Iranian Azeri Turks for example who are Iranian but not Persian. Thus since this article is about Iranian Americans I propose deleting Persian American in the lede. Or atleast not preseting Iranian American and Persian American as being equivalents. [[Special:Contributions/189.6.251.47|189.6.251.47]] ([[User talk:189.6.251.47|talk]]) 07:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:50, 15 February 2024

Ministry of Iran?

[edit]

Why is an Iranian source taken over the actual American source? It shouldn't be in the header at all, this is an american article and american sources say there are half a million Iranians. It should be a footnote down in the article, not up top where an obviously biased government would want to claim there are many iranians in american.71.191.159.69 (talk) 22:00, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Enlighten me, what makes this an "American article"? PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:01, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pro-Iranian Bias in this Article

[edit]

The fact that Iranian Americans are more "successful" by some socio-economic measures is likely due to the specific conditions that allowed for travel and immigration of only a very narrow selection of people. I've tried to edit this article and it's been reverted to the original. I think it's important to note that many Iranian Americans are political refugees--not economic ones. Or they are related to or descendants of pre-1979 Iranians with student visas--again a relatively privileged and highly selective group. Damoname (talk) 20:13, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thank you for commenting. Can you provide some potential sources/links for this statement? If you have independent sources, you can work on adding it into the article in a way that may not get reverted (assuming it's true and improves the article, etc) Apathyash (talk) 01:27, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Migration Policy Institute finds that early arrivals of Iranian to the US "consisted mainly of international students along with professionals and tourists." Following the revolution, "These new arrivals included upper- and middle-class Iranians as well as religious and ethnic minorities such as Baháʼís and Armenians. At the same time, many Iranian students in the United States remained in the country after graduation."
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iranian-immigrants-united-states
Another article cited below explains some of the trends in Iranian-American immigration patterns, pointing out that "Immigrants from Iran began to arrive in the U.S. in the early 20th century, often members of the country’s religious minorities, including Armenian and Assyrian Christians and Jews." Later, after the Iranian Revolutiuon of 19798, "U.S. immigration law gave precedence to family members of U.S. residents, allowing Iranians already settled in America to bring over spouses, parents and children" https://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/mapping-the-iranian-diaspora-in-america#:~:text=Between%201978%20and%201980%2C%20more,to%20several%20sources%2C%20Harris%20said. Damoname (talk) 16:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Opening paragraph

[edit]

Shouldn't the opening sentence be simplified to something like "Iranian Americans are Americans of Iranian ancestry"? The current wording seems somewhat clunky "Iranian Americans are citizens or nationals of the United States who are of Iranian ancestry or who hold Iranian citizenship. Short description even states: U.S. citizens of Iranian ancestry.

If we're being technical, then every single "[ethnicity]-American" term should have sentences denoting dual citizenship. Many countries allow dual citizenship. But many "[insert ethnicity] American" pages don't state this in the opening sentence. Usually just that it refers to Americans of whatever ancestry. Or some variation of that wording. Whether this is referring to Irish Americans, German Americans, Filipino Americans, Swedish Americans, Lebanese Americans, Mexican Americans, Japanese Americans, Indian Americans, Bangladeshi Americans and countless other pages.

Looking at past discussion and the hidden comment, the issue seemed to be about the terminology debate between "Iranian Americans or Persian Americans" but I'm not really talking about that. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 07:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Iranian_Americans&oldid=1207736245"