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== Ministry of Iran? ==
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== "Persian" used incorrectly as a synonym for Iranian ==
I question the acceptability of using the term "Persian" as a '''synonym''' for "Iranian."

"Persian" is an ethnolinguistic label of a large group of people who reside across a vast landmass stretching across the Middle East and reaching deep into Central Asia. It's what one would call a person whose native language is Persian. There are ethnic Persians living in Iran, but there are also millions of ethnic Persians in Afghanistan and Tajikistan as well, with sizable communities in neighboring countries (see article entitled [[Persian people]] for more info). As such, "Persian" is not a catch-all phrase the way the term "Iranian" is; it is much more specific than that referring to a group of people whose native language is Persian in its various dialects numbering upwards of 80,000,000 people, vs. "Iranian," referring to a citizen of modern Iran, a term which includes in its yolk of 77 million people over a dozen different ethnolinguistic groups.

Today, the term "Iranian" operates in a way that is all-inclusive of the many different ethnicities and groups of people that live in present-day Iran, precisely the way that "American" is used for the countless ethnicities in the U.S. no matter what ancestry they may have. This is how "Iranian" is understood, and this is how "American" is understood.

An "Iranian American," therefore, is a much more accurate term and using "Persian" in place of "Iranian" is not an appropriate substitute in any regard. In fact, it is highly inaccurate because a "Persian American" is a very specific kind of American, whereas an "Iranian American" is a grouping of American citizens of Iranian origin. This is because an "Iranian American" can be a person of various ethnic origins, just like an "American" can be of a diverse range of ancestries that reside in the U.S. Academically, we can take it further when attempting to clarify ancestry by saying something like, "an American of European ancestry," and so on. The parallel here would be, "an Iranian American of Kurdish ancestry," for instance, referring to an ethnic Kurd from Iran. The statement is clearly understood. Another example: "an Iranian American of Jewish ancestry," meaning, an American citizen of Jewish-Iranian extraction.

Clearly, then, a person of "Persian descent" is completely different from a person of "Iranian descent." The two are not synonymous, as an individual of "Persian descent" may be originally from anywhere across the Persian-speaking world (again, please see the article [[Persian people]]), whereas an "Iranian descent" is, without question, a person of origin from present-day Iran.

To put it into context, let's look at the following sentence, a verbatim excerpt from the "Ethnicity" subsection of the "Demographics" section of the article:

::"The majority of '''Iranian Americans''' are ethnic Persian, with sizeable ethnic minorities being Iranian Azerbaijanis, Iranian Jews, Armenian-Iranians, Iranian Kurds, Iranian Arabs, and others."

If we were to substitute Persian into that sentence, it would read:

::"The majority of '''Persian Americans''' are ethnic Persian, with sizeable ethnic minorities being '''Persian''' Azerbaijanis, '''Persian''' Jews, Armenian-'''Persian''', '''Persian''' Kurds, '''Persian''' Arabs, and others."

'''''The majority of Persian Americans are Persian?''''' It makes little sense, as does the rest of the ethnicities listed in the modified sentence. A similar example is "[[British American]]" vs. "[[English American]]," as Wikipedia demonstrates, the two are not equivalent and we make a clear distinction between the two in the very first paragraph of the articles:

::"''British Americans (occasionally also known as Anglo-Americans, although this may have a wider linguistic meaning) are citizens of the United States whose ancestry originates wholly or partly in the United Kingdom (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland)''".

and

::"''English Americans (occasionally known as Anglo-Americans, although this may have a wider linguistic meaning) are citizens of the United States whose ancestry originates wholly or partly in England."''

The quotes above are directly from the articles for both groups, and they both make the same claim in a parenthetical note to dispel any confusion that currently exists ("''occasionally known as Anglo-Americans, '''although this may have a wider linguistic meaning'''''"), as well as clarify and define what each group is.

I motion that we revise this article and discontinue using the terms "Persian" and "Iranian" interchangeably as if they are synonyms, and also make it clear that the two are different and are, in fact, often confused with one another as synonyms. The two pages should also not redirect to one another as they currently do.

<small>-[[User:570ad|570ad]] ([[User talk:570ad|talk]]) 18:26, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
</small>

== Religion ==

I have a problem with the '''2012''' statistics in this WP article, because they do not conform with the cited source.

[http://www.paaia.org/CMS/Data/Sites/1/PDFs/2012surveyofiranianamericans-militaryaction-electronic.pdf The original source says]:

Muslim: 31%,
Roman Catholic: 2%,
Protestant: 5%,
Zoroastrian: 2%,
Baha’i: 7%,
Jewish: 5%,
Atheist/Realist/Humanist: 11%,
Agnostic:8%,
Other:15%,
No response: 15%,
('''TOTAL:''' 100%).

or to summarize:

Muslim: 31%,
Zoroastrian (2%) + Christian: (7%) + Jewish (5%) + Baha'i (7%) = 21% in total,
Irreligious: 19% in total (11%+8%, as stated above). Survey does not say what "Other: 15%" category means.*

Yet, one WP editor insists on saying: "[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Iranian_American&diff=596275168&oldid=596194758 most Iranian-Americans appear not to practice any particular religion at all. The poll found the remaining balance split among Muslims, Christians, followers of Judaism, Baha'is and Zoroastrians.]" based on this ''same'' source.

This is patently false!

[http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html Besides, a similar poll conducted also by Zogby for PAAIA] in '''2008''' says texto:

"The survey paints the picture of a diverse and relatively affluent Iranian American community. While two-fifths of Iranian Americans identify themselves as Muslims, almost an equal percentage appear not to practice any particular religion, and the balance are roughly equally divided among Christians, Jews, Bahai's and Zoroastrians."

I suggest to use the 2008 survey because there is no *interpretation needed (or to make the correction as stated above). [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 19:08, 11 April 2014 (UTC)


:11% Atheist + 8% agnostic + 15% other/no religion = 34% irreligious, this is '''completely accurate'''. However saying two-fifths of Iranian-Americans identify themselves as Muslims is '''patently false''' ... 30% is not equal to 40%!!! Please avoid adding your unsourced claims to the article. - [[User:Marmoulak|Marmoulak]] ([[User talk:Marmoulak|talk]]) 01:00, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

::That's NOT what the source says. First source cited above says: "other (religion): 15%" and "no response for religion: 15%" which is different from "no religion" (which is your own unsourced statement). Regarding the second 2008-source cited, it is a DIRECT quote from the report itself. Please read again. [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 01:24, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

:::I am not the one who needs to re-read the source, You are. The source clearly says '''31% Muslim NOT 40%''' ("two fifth"). Iranian-American Muslims are an absolute minority stop inserting your made-up numbers into the article. 15% no response stats are reflected in the graph already; please avoid removing sourced material - [[User:Marmoulak|Marmoulak]] ([[User talk:Marmoulak|talk]]) 01:33, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

::::I'm with Marmoulak on this one. The current version is the best and it should remain this way.--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 05:49, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

*I'm confused. Can someone restate this clearly? I don't see how those numbers equate with a claim that most are not religious. Tx. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 07:06, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

:::This is very simple: there are 2 studies by PAA-Zogby. One [http://www.paaia.org/CMS/Data/Sites/1/PDFs/2012surveyofiranianamericans-militaryaction-electronic.pdf] in 2012 and an older one in 2008. The one in 2012 is copied above. It says/gives Zoroastrian (2%) + Christian: (7%) + Jewish (5%) + Baha'i (7%) = 21% in total (other religions). So, altogether with Muslims it gives 52% for "religious" (21%+31%) as shown above. For the Irreligious: 19% in total (11%+8%, as stated above). Survey does not say what "Other: 15%" category means. Also you have 15% that did not give any response in the survey. Marmoulak has decided to include those 15% with irreligious as stated above. This is WRONG and unsupported by the source. Regarding the older ([2008-Zogby]) survey this is just a quote from the survey "two-fifths of Iranian-Americans identify themselves as Muslims". Yet Marmoulak calls this [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Iranian_American&diff=604818919&oldid=604818038 "patently false"]. [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 21:31, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

::*I can't see any basis -- even if we were to allow OR and Synth -- under the circumstances for such an assertion. I urge that it be struck. --[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 19:49, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

* This exact situation is why we're not supposed to use [[WP:PRIMARY|primary sources]]. I suggest that the primary sources be removed and replaced, if possible, by seconary sources that do the interpretation for you. If you can't locate any secondary sources, then maybe it's [[WP:UNDUE|undue]] to include the data in the first place. This unsourced interpretation of primary sources is against policy. [[User:NinjaRobotPirate|NinjaRobotPirate]] ([[User talk:NinjaRobotPirate|talk]]) 18:17, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

::Another reference noting that many Iranian Americans are irreligious has been added.--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 23:00, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
:::That ref fails to support the statement that "Iranian-Americans are mostly irreligious, agnostic and atheist." I don't see any support whatsoever for that text. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 23:29, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
::::You're right, but it does note the non-religious, as do the following links. Do you have any sources that could help contribute?
:::::http://www.jewishjournal.com/iranianamericanjews/item/video_persian_new_year_unites_folks_of_different_religions_together
:::::http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=236855
:::::http://www.iasaz.org/
:::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IAmericanreligions.png
:::::http://payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html
:::::http://www.niacouncil.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Resources_iranian_american_scholarships
:::::http://iaca-seattle.org/
:::::https://iranianatheists.org/about-us.html --[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 23:43, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
::::::No -- which is why, as that phrase fails [[wp:v]], it should be deleted. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 23:50, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::::Well then let's look at some possible solutions. How could it be rephrased to support both sides of the spectrum?--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 00:32, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
::::::::The two sides here are the accurate RS-supported side and the non-RS-supported inaccurate side. There is no need to support the inaccurate side. As it stands, it should be deleted. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:27, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Ok, I've changed it to "Many [[Iranian-Americans]] are [[irreligion|irreligious]], [[agnosticism|agnostic]] and [[atheism|atheist]], but some are also of [[Muslim]], [[Christian]], [[Jewish]], [[Baha'i]] and [[Zoroastrian]] religious backgrounds."--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 01:55, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
*That's not what the ref says. I've edited that sentence to reflect what the ref says. Please don't engage in synth, including your use -- unless an RS ref supports it directly -- of phrases such as "many" and "some". [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 03:38, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
*The following is what is currently written in the [[Iranian_American#Religion|religion]] section, which I am fine with. I've combined two of the paragraphs because they have to do with one poll:
::{{Pie chart
| caption=Iranian Americans religious demographics as of 2012.
| label1 = [[Irreligion|Irreligious]]
| value1 = 34
| color1 = blue
| label2 = [[Muslim]]
| value2 = 31
| color2 = red
| label3 = [[Christian]], [[Bahai]], [[Zoroastrian]], [[Jewish]]
| value3 = 21
| color3 = #08f
| label4 = Other
| value4 = 15
| color4 = white
}}
Iranians of all religious backgrounds in the United States have comparatively a mix of [[Liberalism in the United States|liberal]], [[Conservatism in the United States|conservative]] and [[Iranian nationalism|nationalist]] political leaning and opinions. Iranian-Americans thus are largely [[Secularism|secular]] and tend to practice [[moderate]], less traditional religious forms, but have strong [[Culture of Iran|cultural traditions]].

According to a 2012 [[Zogby International|Zogby]]-[[PAAIA]] poll, most Iranian-Americans appear not to practice any particular religion at all, showing many to be [[Irreligion|irreligious]], [[Agnosticism|agnostic]] and [[Atheism|atheist]].<ref name="paaia survey"/><ref name="Parade">{{cite news|title = Persian NYers Show Their Pride at Murray Hill Parade|publisher =[[Time Warner Cable News]]|url =http://www.ny1.com/content/news/206934/persian-nyers-show-their-pride-at-murray-hill-parade|accessdate = April 20, 2014}}</ref> The poll found the remaining balance split among [[Muslim|Muslims]], [[Christian|Christians]], followers of [[Judaism]], [[Baha'i]]s and [[Zoroastrians]], with the results as follows: [[Muslim]]: 31%, "No response": 15%, [[Atheist]]/[[Realist]]/[[Humanist]]: 11%, [[Agnostic]]: 8%, ([[Irreligion|Irreligious]]: 34%), [[Baha’i]]: 7%, [[Jewish]]: 5%, [[Protestant]]: 5%, [[Roman Catholic]]: 2%, [[Zoroastrian]]: 2%, and "Other": 15%.<ref name="paaia survey"/> "There are religious and [[Ethnolinguistics|ethnolinguistic]] differences among the Muslim, Jewish, Baha'i, Zoroastrian, Christian, [[Armenians|Armenian]], [[Azerbaijani people|Azerbaijani]], [[Kurdish people|Kurdish]], and [[Assyrian people|Assyrian]] groups".<ref>[http://www.jstor.org/stable/4120728 Nilou Mostofi, Who We Are: The Perplexity of Iranian-American Identity, The Sociological Quarterly (published by: Blackwell Publishing on behalf of the Midwest Sociological Society), Vol. 44, No. 4 (Autumn, 2003), pp. 681–703, p. 685]</ref> Calculating the percentage of [[Christianity in Iran|Christian]] Iranian-Americans is difficult because most Iranian Christians are of [[Armenians|Armenian]] or [[Assyrian people|Assyrian]] origin and self-identify as such rather than as Iranian.<ref>{{cite web|author=Mohsen Mobasher |url=http://abs.sagepub.com/content/50/1/100.abstract |title=Cultural Trauma and Ethnic Identity Formation Among Iranian Immigrants in the United States |publisher=Abs.sagepub.com |date=September 1, 2006 |accessdate=November 28, 2011}}</ref>--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 04:22, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

:::The pie chart is a mixture of misleading and wrong. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 22:04, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

:*''Note'': Bowser2500 has been [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User%3ABowser2500&type=block blocked for two weeks]. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 06:18, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

May I suggest to revert to [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Iranian_American&oldid=604818038 this version] since it is accurate as per 2 reliable sources. I would like the opinion of 2 Admins please. Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 23:57, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
::OK, if there is no objection I will edit as indicated above. [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 10:48, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

:::I continue to object to that -- and if you read above in this string, you will see that there are other objections as well. And Bowser -- who may not object -- is blocked (for the fourth time in two months). You are suggesting we replace accurate precise info with innaccurate imprecise info. That's unacceptable. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 18:41, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

::::My friend, I think you are confusing me with Marmoulak :) Btw, I was surprised you left the wrong version in place while you claim your accord with what i said above all along. [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 02:03, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

:::::Tx. Fixed. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 22:04, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

:::Hello. The version suggested by 67.87.50.54 seems odd to me, because the graph and the text disagree with each other - the former using the 2012 numbers and the latter the 2008. Although each does mention the year, thus explaining the discrepancy, it still seems like it would be clearer to either just stick to one of the two surveys, or else explicitly discuss the difference ("In 2008 a survey found that... a 2012 survey by the same organisation found...").
:::Personally I would favour picking one survey to stick to. In particular the 2012 seems to have two advantages: first, it's more recent; and secondly its categories are more clearly defined. The 2008 survey's 'almost two fifths are irreligious' statement is based on the sentence "a significant thirty-one percent (31%) [identified themselves] as other, ''presumably'' meaning that they do not practice any particular religion." (emphasis added). If we stick to the 2012 source, then rather than relying on this 'presumption' about what 'other' means we can straightforwardly give the percentages of atheist, agnostic, other and no response and let the reader draw their own conclusion. This, to me, seems preferable. [[User:Olaf Davis|Olaf Davis]] ([[User talk:Olaf Davis|talk]]) 20:56, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
::::I agree with Olaf. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 22:04, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

All i care is to have all the falsehood in [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Iranian_American&oldid=605104657 this version] of the article removed. The point mentioned by Olaf is well taken, agreed. [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 03:26, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
PS: The info-box still says "majority of non-religious" which is ''false''. Thanks for making the correction.
:Thanks for pointing out the ibox problem. I've conformed it to the text in the body. But I think we might consider deleting it altogether in the ibox -- or clarifying it furhter. As the text in the body makes clear, it is one 400 person survey, subject to error, and not definitive. Thoughts? [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 07:40, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks for the correction, again. The infobox is good as it is in my opinion (may be without the percentages) [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 01:04, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

*I agree with Olaf above & the IP user as well. I don't think the percentages are needed in the infobox.--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 07:14, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

===Irreligion===

*Also, this is the current religion section that I'd like to check with other users to reach consensus. What do you guys think?:
--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 07:14, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
A 2012 national telephone survey in English of a sample of 400 Iranian-Americans, commissioned by the [[Public Affairs Alliance of Iranian Americans]] and conducted by [[Zogby Research Services]], asked the respondents what their religions were. The responses broke down as follows: [[Muslim]]: 31%, "No response": 15%, [[atheist]]/[[Philosophical realism|realist]]/[[Religious humanism|humanist]]: 11%, [[agnostic]]: 8%, [[Baha’i]]: 7%, [[Jewish]]: 5%, [[Protestant]]: 5%, [[Roman Catholic]]: 2%, [[Zoroastrian]]: 2%, and "Other": 15%.<ref name="paaia survey"/><ref name="Parade">{{cite news|title = Persian NYers Show Their Pride at Murray Hill Parade|publisher =[[Time Warner Cable News]]|url =http://www.ny1.com/content/news/206934/persian-nyers-show-their-pride-at-murray-hill-parade|accessdate = April 20, 2014}}</ref> The survey had a cooperation rate of 31.2%.<ref name="paaia survey"/> The [[margin of error]] for the results was +/- 5 percentage points, with higher margins of error in sub-groups.<ref name="paaia survey"/>

Due to the laws regarding [[apostasy in Islam]], some Iranians do not claim Islam as their religion, but would in fear of [[Religious persecution|persecution]].<ref name="irreligion1">{{cite web|url=http://benswann.com/opinion-islam-in-america-from-the-eyes-of-an-iranian-american/ |title=Opinion: Islam In America- From The Eyes Of An Iranian, American |publisher=benswann.com |date=2 September 2013 |accessdate=}}</ref> The [[Central Committee for Ex-Muslims]] was founded by Iranian [[Ehsan Jami]] with an aim to support apostates and to bring forth the reality of [[Women in Islam|women's rights violations]] in the religion.<ref>{{citation|language=Dutch|url=http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/1098823/reacties-stromen-binnen-bij-comite-voor-ex-moslims.html|periodical=[[NU.nl]]|title=Reacties stromen binnen bij Comité voor Ex-moslims|trans-title=Reactions flows within the Committee for Ex-Muslims|date=2 June 2007|accessdate=}}</ref> According to [[Harvard University]] professor [[Robert D. Putnam]], the average Iranian is slightly less religious than the average American.<ref name="irreligion2">{{cite web|url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/01/14/169164840/losing-our-religion-the-growth-of-the-nones |title=Losing Our Religion: The Growth Of The 'Nones' |publisher=[[NPR]] |date=13 January 2013 |accessdate=}}</ref> Iranian-Americans are distancing themselves from Islam, having accepted the negative characteristics associated with the religion.<ref name="irreligion3">{{cite web|url=http://www.payvand.com/news/09/sep/1230.html |title=Disparaging Islam and the Iranian-American Identity: To Snuggle or to Struggle |publisher=payvand.com |date=21 September 2009 |accessdate=}}</ref> This is due to Islam being imposed on the Iranians through [[Muslim conquest of Persia|war and invasion]], equating to [[authoritarianism]], [[Islam and violence|brutality]] and [[Corruption in Iran|corruption]].<ref name="irreligion3"/> In the novel, ''Social Movements in 20th Century Iran: Culture, Ideology, and Mobilizing Frameworks'', author Stephen C. Poulson adds that [[Westernization|Western ideas]] are making Iranians [[Irreligion|irreligious]].<ref name="irreligion4">{{cite web|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=GpPeyef-FO4C&pg=PA13 |title=Social Movements in 20th Century Iran: Culture, Ideology, and Mobilizing Frameworks |publisher=[[Rowman & Littlefield|Lexington Books]] |date=2005 |accessdate=}}</ref>

There are religious and [[Ethnolinguistics|ethnolinguistic]] differences among the Muslim, Jewish, Baha'i, Zoroastrian, Christian, [[Armenians|Armenian]], [[Azerbaijani people|Azerbaijani]], [[Kurdish people|Kurdish]], and [[Assyrian people|Assyrian]] groups.<ref>[http://www.jstor.org/stable/4120728 Nilou Mostofi, Who We Are: The Perplexity of Iranian-American Identity, The Sociological Quarterly (published by: Blackwell Publishing on behalf of the Midwest Sociological Society), Vol. 44, No. 4 (Autumn, 2003), pp. 681–703, p. 685]</ref> Calculating the percentage of [[Christianity in Iran|Christian]] Iranian-Americans is difficult because most Iranian Christians are of [[Armenians|Armenian]] or [[Assyrian people|Assyrian]] origin and self-identify as such, rather than as Iranian.<ref>{{cite web|author=Mohsen Mobasher |url=http://abs.sagepub.com/content/50/1/100.abstract |title=Cultural Trauma and Ethnic Identity Formation Among Iranian Immigrants in the United States |publisher=Abs.sagepub.com |date=September 1, 2006 |accessdate=November 28, 2011}}</ref>--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 07:31, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

*Bowser -- you were just blocked, for the fourth time in two months. For 2 weeks. For disruptive editing, including here, including relative to this stream. You first try to insist on the inclusion of inaccurate percentage information. Now -- failing that, and given then the accurate information is in -- fresh from your latest block, you seek to delete the accurate information ... which is of course at odds with the inaccurate information you sought to input. And, you've used a sockpuppet within the past two months. The information you are trying to delete is RS supported. Please stop trying to delete it. It is obviously relevant. Marmoulak pointed out above at length why your efforts were disruptively trying to change the facts to fit your unsupported views. Please stop. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]])
::Your accusations are false. I'm not trying to delete any accurate information; instead, I've added text & sources that help support the RS. Please let me know what you think about the section, irregardless of my previous blocks. Thanks.--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 07:39, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
:::You've been blocked four times in two months for exactly this sort of disruptive activity. Including on this article. As pointed out by Marmoulak and the IP above -- you were trying to force mis-statements into this article, which was part of what led to your last block. Which you are fresh off of. You also deleted accurate info from this article, as your warnings prior to that block attest. And [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Iranian_American&diff=prev&oldid=607592857 now you just deleted RS-supported material on this article ''again'']. Which clarified the error in the untruth you tried to push into this article, as discussed above. You are at final warning (for at least the fifth time in four months). Please stop editing disruptively. [[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 07:44, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
::::The percentages above have been made clear now, sorry for the misunderstanding. At the time, I calculated a certain classification as being irreligious, as did another user. But that's not the point now; you seem to be going back to the same points, using them as scapegoats. Could you please help in verifying the validity of the current section? Thanks.--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 07:52, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
:::::The "misunderstanding" had been pointed out to you many times, on this page and elsewhere, and you kept on inputting clearly incorrect information. And deleting clearly correct information. Even after you were blocked 4 times. This page was settled without upset before you returned from your last block, these past few hours. I believe the state it was in was appropriate, and your suggested reverted revisions are not.[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 07:55, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
::::::Ok, let's leave it under your edit then, I'm fine with the percentages being up. As for the text, do you have any comments to make in regards to them? & just to get a couple things straight here, I only deleted the percentages because the IP user above believed in deleting them as well. They just don't look right to me to be in the infobox (as no other article has them there either), but I digress.--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 07:59, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
*Though atheism and agnosticism technically aren't religions, shouldn't they be capitalized as seen [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Iranian_American&diff=607593850&oldid=607592857 here] due to the context with the others being capitalized?--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 08:09, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
*Admin/experienced editor here.<p>I just [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Iranian_American&diff=607649762&oldid=607594429 reverted] {{U|Bowser2500}}'s latest addition: there is no way in which [http://benswann.com/opinion-islam-in-america-from-the-eyes-of-an-iranian-american/ an opinion piece] on the opinionator's website can count as a reliable source. Take it to [[WP:RSN]] if you disagree, but we cannot allow such information to stand, at least not without strong consensus that this is reliable. In addition, I am considering locking this article until an agreement is reached: this back-and-forth editing is disruptive, and the clogging-up of the history makes things only more difficult.<p>Now, with my editor hat on, I'll say that locking the article right now would probably codify the wrong version. The 2008 survey seems more reliable to me than the 2012 version (only 400 respondents? that's not good), but an added difficulty here is that the press release and the full report (linked [http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html here], at the bottom) are inaccessible, to me anyway, so it's hard to say if this was a larger, more comprehensive survey. But this is a matter that needs to be decided on, maybe in an [[WP:RFC]] or two--along the lines of "1. is the 2008 survey to be taken as reliable and its numbers included in the article, and if so, how?" and "2. ...", well, ditto for the 2012 survey. Epeefleche, you don't need to repeat Bowser's block log anymore--that's just rubbing it in. Bowser, you need to stop reverting until there is consensus. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 16:35, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

::I don't think this new paragraph belongs to this current article at all. I would instead try to expand [[Irreligion in Iran]]. Also I think there are 2 refs that are mere speculations (including the Professor) and therefore do not belong to Wikipedia. Regarding the comment about religion (please see previous debate about religion). I agree; the [https://web.archive.org/web/20081221105629/http://paaia.org/galleries/new-gallery/Survey_of_Iranian_Americans_Final_Report_Dec_10%202008.pdf 2008 study] is less confusing. Also there is confusion: Marmoulak had similar position to editor Browser2500 (are they the same editors?). I for one agree with Drmies, Epeefleche and Olaf. [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 09:30, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

:::Please don't delete a section without having reached consensus first, IP user. I agree with them too, and they kept the paragraph as well since it pertains to Iranian Americans. I've added the 2008 survery, & no, I am not Marmoulak.--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 19:32, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

:::::Browser2500 has been warned by many admins not to disrupt Wikipedia and yet he continues as nothing has happened.[[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 07:34, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

::::::This is the 2nd time I've had to revert your deletions of referenced information within the past week. Your reasoning of "irrelevant for this section" is wrong - the articles specifically relate to the religiosity of Iranian Americans. The numerical statistics have been presented at the beginning of the section, with the text subsequently added based on the verified sources. The other users have let the section be, but you continue to delete them. You've been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:67.87.50.54#Iranian_American warned for the second time].--[[User:Bowser2500|Bowser2500]] ([[User talk:Bowser2500|talk]]) 19:29, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

:::::::No Sir/Madam, what I have said clearly is that [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Iranian_American&diff=608694809&oldid=608498300 one opinion cannot be used as survey]. That is against Wikipedia's policy. That is besides the point to large extend. Your highly disruptive editing of this article after your ban is not civil. I suggest you take some of your own medicine. [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) 19:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
*OK. IP67, your "one opinion cannot be used as a survey" is invalid. First of all, it's semantically incorrect--how could an "opinion" be used as a "survey"? Second, this is apparently the "opinion" of someone who knows what they're talking about. Third, I do not see, on this talk page, where your removals are warranted, besides your saying that they are. (On the other hand, the Payvand article is an opinion piece in something that is not a reliable source, as far as I know, and so cannot be used to make the general statement "Iranian-Americans are distancing...", let alone for the claim "This is due to Islam being imposed..."--''in Wikipedia's voice!'' Now, you're both edit warring, and both of you are likely go get blocked if you persist. In addition, IP, I'm warning you that you cannot remove sourced content in this way. You must seek talk page consensus--which, for some parts, should be easy to do. He who hath ears... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 20:02, 15 May 2014 (UTC)



:::Drmies: Respectfully, this is NOT me who needs to discuss things first as I have done so all along as you can see above. It is Browser2500 who added this new paragraph WITHOUT seeking approval on this talk page after he/she was blocked from editing and he/she gives me two false/abusive warnings on my talk page for removing what is undue weight -- since it is not a survey but only a sourced opinion of two individuals. Editors who disrupt WP need be blocked even if they give sources to [[WP:UNDUE]]. But to be gracious I will not edit until it is resolved on this talk page first. [[Special:Contributions/67.87.50.54|67.87.50.54]] ([[User talk:67.87.50.54|talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned"> — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 20:37, 15 May 2014 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Photos ==

Photos are full. A good group of Iranian-Americans from various sources are listed. Please do not add/remove/change photos without discussing the changes first.

I recall a nice array of photos on this article... where did they go?? - Mr. N

Andre Agassi is not Iranian. HE IS AN ARMENIAN. I SAW THE 60 MINUTE SEGMENT. HE WAS ONLY BORN IN IRAN. ARMENIANS ARE NOT IRANIANS. <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/173.51.221.197|173.51.221.197]] ([[User talk:173.51.221.197|talk]]) 03:14, 30 September 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Iranian is a nationality, not an ethnicity. Armenians born in Iran or with parents (e.g roots) born in Iran are thus of Iranian descent. Furthermore he always mentions it in interviews, acknowledges his Iranian descent, planned on visiting Iran, and his father represented Iran in the Olympics. Ridiculously nonsensical comment. - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 23:35, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

==Bavand vs Bournoutian==

We have enough entrepreneur/business related people's, e.g Omidyar, Kordestani, Kamangar, etc. Bournoutian is a well established Iranian-American (of Armenian descent) and is a well known authority on Iranian history, apart from his other specialization, Armenian history. Furthermore, Armenians are significantly overrepresented amongst the Iranian diaspora in the US, so it doesn't hurt. Also, we only have one person of Assyrian descent (partial) and that's Agassi. We have to take the overrepresentation of Armenians, Assyrians, etc into consideration. Maybe one more Assyrian would be a good one too. - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 23:39, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

:Karim is Iranian-American. An American of purely Iranian descent. He is not Armenian, which you provided as reasoning for his removal Furthermore he is not an entrepreneur or business person, which you also suggested as reasoning for his removal. Karim is, in fact, a scholar and academic, which you yourself suggested are underrepresented on this list. He is also a filmmaker and he has made a significant cultural contribution with his latest film, which addresses the national issues of race and hate crimes. You have offered no valid reason to remove this entry. Please let it be. Karim represents a new, young generation of Iranians born in the United States. He is unique on this list. -[[User:Ieatfreshfruit|Ieatfreshfruit]] ([[User talk:Ieatfreshfruit|talk]]) 02:24, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

::Bournoutian is equally "purely" Iranian. Iranian is a nationality, ''not'' an ethnicity. He's an Iranian of [[Iranian Armenians|Armenian]] descent. Furthermore, you totally misunderstood me. I meant that the Iranian-Assyrians and Iranian-Armenians are vastly overrepresented amongst the Iranian diaspora in the US, ''thus'', that should be reflected in the infobox. Which it does now.
::Your single only reason to edit on Wikipedia seems only to make sure this guy is included in the infobox. Are you related to him? Are you himself? I mean that's totally fine, no problem, but that does not make a valid "pass" just to push for something related to him, just because you personally think its important. Looking at your edits, you're quite pov-pushing.

::Furthermore, most importantly, his notability compared to Bournoutian is nothing. When I type "George Bournoutian" in Google, I get [https://www.google.nl/#q=George+Bournoutian 23.200 hits], whilst when I type "Bavand Karim", I get a mere [https://www.google.nl/#q=bavand+karim 3.060 hits]. The infobox should show notable people that accomplished things related to the respective community (Iranian Americans), ''not'' people we specifically just like or admire. That seems like pretty solid reasoning to me. - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 02:34, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

:::You can't make whatever changes you want just because you consider yourself some kind of authority on Iranians. I looked through your posts too. Who do you think you are? I am not Karim or related to him. His notability and 3,060 are is completely valid for an infobox. He IS accomplished respective and related to Iranian Americans AND specifically the ones on this list by a) in being a prominent current filmmaker, b) with articles in the national press, c) credits on major Hollywood films, d) a documentary on Netflix, and a e) prominent faculty position. Just as my personal desire to include him does not validate his position on this list, just because you don't know or have any regard for his work does not mean his placement is invalid. Bournoutian is equally deserving, and I suspect you are an admirer of his work, but Wikipedia is not the place for a pissing match. You are not the supreme authority on what is the most "Iranian" or what is most notable. --[[User:Turnbull35|Turnbull35]] ([[User talk:Turnbull35|talk]]) 02:56, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

::::Sorry, but read [[WP:JDL]]. He's not remotely as notable as compared to Bournoutian. That fact alone ascribes him, if we compare them. These infoboxes are for people that are ''notable'', I repeat once again. You have brought no valid facts or reasons (except for the work that he does), that he should be added instead of Bournoutian. I think we're done here, as its becoming a refurbishment of already said words and argumentations. Bests - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 03:02, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

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==Intermarriage==

Unless men have been pairing with men in significant numbers, which seems doubtful, or unless many Iranian-American women are remaining single, or an unusual number of Iranian-American men are divorcing their Iranian-American wives to marry other Iranian-American women, or Iranian-American wives have especially high mortality rates, etc., the article's source on intermarriage would seem to have an arithmetic problem. Every Iranian-American woman married to Iranian-American man would seem reduce the unmarried numbers of each sex by exactly one, wouldn't it? If, after most of the Iranian-American women have married, the surplus is mostly male, then male outmarriage is precisely what one would expect! The cited statistic does not seem to suggest that Iranian-American women "are more likely to adhere to traditional Iranian values," but rather simply that more Iranian men than women migrate to the United States. Logic, lads, logic! Rather than reporting actual facts, the source in question may be lazily just making things up. [[User:Tbtkorg|Tbtkorg]] ([[User talk:Tbtkorg|talk]]) 13:24, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

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Why is an Iranian source taken over the actual American source? It shouldn't be in the header at all, this is an american article and american sources say there are half a million Iranians. It should be a footnote down in the article, not up top where an obviously biased government would want to claim there are many iranians in american.[[Special:Contributions/71.191.159.69|71.191.159.69]] ([[User talk:71.191.159.69|talk]]) 22:00, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
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:Enlighten me, what makes this an "American article"? [[User:Praxidicae|<span style="color: white; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(red, orange, green, blue, indigo, violet)">PRAXIDICAE🌈</span>]] 22:01, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
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== Pro-Iranian Bias in this Article ==
== The poll was only conducted with 400 people ==


The fact that Iranian Americans are more "successful" by some socio-economic measures is likely due to the specific conditions that allowed for travel and immigration of only a very narrow selection of people. I've tried to edit this article and it's been reverted to the original. I think it's important to note that many Iranian Americans are political refugees--not economic ones. Or they are related to or descendants of pre-1979 Iranians with student visas--again a relatively privileged and highly selective group. [[User:Damoname|Damoname]] ([[User talk:Damoname|talk]]) 20:13, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Only 400 people took the poll you cannot apply it to all iranian americans. [[User:Arsi786|Arsi786]] ([[User talk:Arsi786|talk]]) 08:43, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
:*"''(...) you cannot apply it to all iranian americans."''
:According to whom? - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 11:20, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
::I think the OP has a point, although I've worked too much on copy editing the display of the results to want to see it removed. To rely on one (privately commissioned?) poll with such a small sample—instead of, say, official census data—does seem dubious. [[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 22:55, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
:::I quote, page 15:
:::{{blockquote|The survey was conducted between March 5th–6th, 2012 and is based on successful interviews in English with '''a representative sample''' of 400 Iranian American respondents. Zogby Research Services working with jzanalytics, conducted the survey employing sampling strategies in which selection probabilities are proportional to population size within area codes and exchanges. Up to four calls are made to reach a sampled phone number. Cooperation rates are calculated using one of the '''methodologies that are approved by the American Association for Public Opinion Research and are comparable to other professional public-opinion surveys conducted using similar sampling strategies'''. Cooperation rates (in this case, 31.2%) are calculated using one of AAPOR’s approved methodologies. The margin of error for the results of this survey is +/-5 percentage points, which is an acceptable margin of error for a survey of this type. Margins of error are higher in sub-groups. Based on a confidence interval of 95%, the margin of error for 400 is +/-5.0 percentage points. This means that all other things being equal, the identical survey repeated will have results within the margin of error 95 times out of 100.}}


:::Unless it can be proven (with [[WP:RS]]) that the PAAIA (Public Affairs Alliance of Iranian Americans) and/or Zogby Research Services are partisan, biased or discredited in peer-reviewed reports I don't see ''any'' reason to remove the content from the infobox. - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 10:42, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
:Hi, thank you for commenting. Can you provide some potential sources/links for this statement? If you have independent sources, you can work on adding it into the article in a way that may not get reverted (assuming it's true and improves the article, etc) [[User:Apathyash|Apathyash]] ([[User talk:Apathyash|talk]]) 01:27, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
::The Migration Policy Institute finds that early arrivals of Iranian to the US "consisted mainly of international students along with professionals and tourists." Following the revolution, "These new arrivals included upper- and middle-class Iranians as well as religious and ethnic minorities such as Baháʼís and Armenians. At the same time, many Iranian students in the United States remained in the country after graduation."
::https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iranian-immigrants-united-states
::Another article cited below explains some of the trends in Iranian-American immigration patterns, pointing out that "Immigrants from Iran began to arrive in the U.S. in the early 20th century, often members of the country’s religious minorities, including Armenian and Assyrian Christians and Jews." Later, after the Iranian Revolutiuon of 19798, "U.S. immigration law gave precedence to family members of U.S. residents, allowing Iranians already settled in America to bring over spouses, parents and children" https://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/mapping-the-iranian-diaspora-in-america#:~:text=Between%201978%20and%201980%2C%20more,to%20several%20sources%2C%20Harris%20said. [[User:Damoname|Damoname]] ([[User talk:Damoname|talk]]) 16:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


== Opening paragraph ==
::::Polls involve mathematical extrapolation; and a series of polls, all conducted with equal rigor, are likely to yield a variety of results. You cannot take a poll, no matter how carefully done, and put it on the level of census data, something that is official (i.e. to be taken much more seriously by respondents) and inclusive of so many more people. And we have only one poll taken at one time. I won't try to move it unless there's consensus, but I suggest it would be more appropriate in the body of the article. [[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 23:11, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


Shouldn't the opening sentence be simplified to something like "{{tq|Iranian Americans are Americans of Iranian ancestry}}"? The current wording seems somewhat clunky "{{tq|Iranian Americans are citizens or nationals of the United States who are of Iranian ancestry or who hold Iranian citizenship.}} Short description even states: {{tq|U.S. citizens of Iranian ancestry}}.
::::: polls only allow us to obtain estimations with a margin of error. The less people you have in the poll sample, the greater the margin of error is. A poll done with a sample comprising 400 people will have a margin of error of roughly 5% while a poll done with a sample comprising 1000 people will have a margin of error of roughly 3%. There is no evidence here that the poll was not achieved "carefully" (btw, the only thing that matters when doing a poll is to chose a representative sample).<b><span style="color:orange">---Wikaviani </span></b><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Wikaviani|<span style="color:blue">(talk)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Wikaviani|<span style="color:purple">(contribs)</span>]]</b></small></sup> 12:01, 8 June 2019 (UTC)


If we're being technical, then every single "[ethnicity]-American" term should have sentences denoting dual citizenship. Many countries allow dual citizenship. But many "[insert ethnicity] American" pages don't state this in the opening sentence. Usually just that it refers to Americans of whatever ancestry. Or some variation of that wording. Whether this is referring to [[Irish Americans]], [[German Americans]], [[Filipino Americans]], [[Swedish Americans]], [[Lebanese Americans]], [[Mexican Americans]], [[Japanese Americans]], [[Indian Americans]], [[Bangladeshi Americans]] and countless other pages.
I am not requesting that you remove the polls information entirely from the wiki page and if you did look into the reference you would know its mainly concentrated in the los angeles area and they conducted phone interviews while going through phonebooks and calling people with iranian surnames all I am saying there are over 200,000 ~ 1 million iranians living in the usa and your taking a poll conducted by only 400 iranians and applying it to every single iranian in the country all I was requesting that you remove the statistic numbers from the infobox and leave the poll as it is in the religion section of the page. [[User:Arsi786|Arsi786]] ([[User talk:Arsi786|talk]]) 13:47, 8 June 2019 (UTC)


Looking at past discussion and the hidden comment, the issue seemed to be about the terminology debate between "Iranian Americans or Persian Americans" but I'm not really talking about that. [[User:Clear Looking Glass|Clear Looking Glass]] ([[User talk:Clear Looking Glass|talk]]) 07:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
: Again, you just don't understand what a poll is ! A poll is not intended to be done with 200000-1000000 persons, this would be called a vote, not a poll. Trust me, you really need to read a math book about statistics (and i'm not saying that dismissively). Do you really think that when some institute makes a poll before an election in the USA, they just ask to the 250,000,000 potential voters for who they're going to vote ??? No, this is definitely not how things work, they chose a few hundred people to constitute a representative sample and they ask them for who they're going to vote. Then they calculate an interval with a margin of error in order to have an etimation.<b><span style="color:orange">---Wikaviani </span></b><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Wikaviani|<span style="color:blue">(talk)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Wikaviani|<span style="color:purple">(contribs)</span>]]</b></small></sup> 13:24, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:50, 15 February 2024

Ministry of Iran?

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Why is an Iranian source taken over the actual American source? It shouldn't be in the header at all, this is an american article and american sources say there are half a million Iranians. It should be a footnote down in the article, not up top where an obviously biased government would want to claim there are many iranians in american.71.191.159.69 (talk) 22:00, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Enlighten me, what makes this an "American article"? PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:01, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pro-Iranian Bias in this Article

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The fact that Iranian Americans are more "successful" by some socio-economic measures is likely due to the specific conditions that allowed for travel and immigration of only a very narrow selection of people. I've tried to edit this article and it's been reverted to the original. I think it's important to note that many Iranian Americans are political refugees--not economic ones. Or they are related to or descendants of pre-1979 Iranians with student visas--again a relatively privileged and highly selective group. Damoname (talk) 20:13, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thank you for commenting. Can you provide some potential sources/links for this statement? If you have independent sources, you can work on adding it into the article in a way that may not get reverted (assuming it's true and improves the article, etc) Apathyash (talk) 01:27, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Migration Policy Institute finds that early arrivals of Iranian to the US "consisted mainly of international students along with professionals and tourists." Following the revolution, "These new arrivals included upper- and middle-class Iranians as well as religious and ethnic minorities such as Baháʼís and Armenians. At the same time, many Iranian students in the United States remained in the country after graduation."
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iranian-immigrants-united-states
Another article cited below explains some of the trends in Iranian-American immigration patterns, pointing out that "Immigrants from Iran began to arrive in the U.S. in the early 20th century, often members of the country’s religious minorities, including Armenian and Assyrian Christians and Jews." Later, after the Iranian Revolutiuon of 19798, "U.S. immigration law gave precedence to family members of U.S. residents, allowing Iranians already settled in America to bring over spouses, parents and children" https://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/mapping-the-iranian-diaspora-in-america#:~:text=Between%201978%20and%201980%2C%20more,to%20several%20sources%2C%20Harris%20said. Damoname (talk) 16:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Opening paragraph

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Shouldn't the opening sentence be simplified to something like "Iranian Americans are Americans of Iranian ancestry"? The current wording seems somewhat clunky "Iranian Americans are citizens or nationals of the United States who are of Iranian ancestry or who hold Iranian citizenship. Short description even states: U.S. citizens of Iranian ancestry.

If we're being technical, then every single "[ethnicity]-American" term should have sentences denoting dual citizenship. Many countries allow dual citizenship. But many "[insert ethnicity] American" pages don't state this in the opening sentence. Usually just that it refers to Americans of whatever ancestry. Or some variation of that wording. Whether this is referring to Irish Americans, German Americans, Filipino Americans, Swedish Americans, Lebanese Americans, Mexican Americans, Japanese Americans, Indian Americans, Bangladeshi Americans and countless other pages.

Looking at past discussion and the hidden comment, the issue seemed to be about the terminology debate between "Iranian Americans or Persian Americans" but I'm not really talking about that. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 07:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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