Talk:Arnaldo Otegi

Untitled

This article is clearly biased:

Firstly, it speaks about Spanish nationalism. It said (I have already changed it) that Otegi is hated by Spanish nationalists. It isn’t true because Spanish nationalism doesn’t exist or is very small (in fact, Spanish nationalism hasn’t got parliamentarian representation).

Secondly, Lizarra’s declaration objective wasn’t the peace: it was just Basque Country’s independence. To get it, nationalists parties decided to create a nationalist alliance and betray most Basque People, who don’t wish the independence (in fact, in Navarre pro-independence people are around 20%; in French Basque Country around 10% and in Basque Autonomous Community around 50%).

Thirdly, Otegi was not sentenced to a year in prison because of criticizing King Juan Carlos II, but yes for accusing him of being a torturer. Obviously, freedom expression has a limit, and it’s a crime accusing people of being a torturer.

In short, this article is clearly biased and pro-Basque-nationalists.

PS: I apologized to you for my poor English.

have read the article and altered it slightly; i believe it now reads objectively.

I can't see major reasons for the neutrality tag, as apparently the issues cited to place it where edited. I am removing it. Mountolive 23:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The article does not read objectively. References to ETA as "terrorists" are not objective references. Nelson Mandela used to be called a terrorist... until the ANC won.

It's pretty typical of Spanish nationalists to claim that Spanish nationalism doesn't exists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.51.68.217 (talk) 08:39, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

ETA is a terrorist group by anyone´s standar. Comparing ETA to Mandela is proposterous.--Mrfoxtalbot (talk) 04:01, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Prison

"On 21st February 1989 he was found of guilty of kidnapping and sentenced to six years in jail. In October 1990 he was released after having served half of his sentence."

These sentences don't appear to make sense mathematically. Can someone with more expertise than I clarify this, or tell me I'm wrong and that it does make sense? Crunk 20:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

hehehe, indeed makes no sense...I didn't add that info and so I don't have any idea...maybe there was a subsequent appeal or something? probably the safest is just to remove any time reference. I am doing so now. Thank you for reading ;) Mountolive | Talk 21:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

It does make sense, here is how: He had already served half that time while under arrest but before he was sentenced. It´s called "Prisión Preventiva" and it counts towards the total time you have to serve in jail. The source is valid as quoted in the Spanish version of this article. I am going to add that sentence again, along with the reference.--Mrfoxtalbot (talk) 03:47, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Spain links removed

I reverted the last unsigned edit that removed references and links to the fact that Arnaldo Otegi was born in what is at the moment de facto Spain. Removing references to that fact is unencyclopedic, politically motivated and right out unhelpful. It has been discussed ad nauseam wether to label him as spanish or as basque. Please read this:

"The terms "citizenship" and "nationality" are sometimes used interchangeably, but differ in important ways. In most circumstances, citizenship is easier to determine than nationality, and should be given priority. Nationality should be listed only in addition to citizenship, and only in cases where it both differs from citizenship and is relevant to the article."Wikipedia:Citizenship_and_nationality

--Mrfoxtalbot (talk) 23:06, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Nationality in opening sentance

The presidence for his 'Basque' nationality has been set in stone; see the outcome of the RFC on the nationality of Talk:Carles Puigdemont. 'Arnaldo Otegi Mondragón (born 6 July 1958) is a Basque politician' therefore follows. @BallenaBlanca and Jamez42: You say: The Constitution of Spain only admits one nation, which is the Spanish Nation. WP does not follow the Constitution of Spain! We adhere to WP five columns, established consensus such as RFCs and mainly respect to diversity and people. Please do not carry on changing people's nationality to Spanish, as this is no less than vandalism. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 03:30, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

The RFC concerns the article Carles Puigdemont only, and does not set precedent for other articles. Please discuss any changes to this article on this talkpage. Yunshui ^雲_水 09:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Nationality

About this edit [1], here applies Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies#Context.

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies#Context clearly cites the country of citizenship and not the region or ethnicity as the criteria for the first sentence of the lead. The term Basque could be added elsewhere on the lead if ethnicity is relevant in the concrete case, and in fact it is already present in the page, in the same sentence "who is the current Secretary General of abertzale Basque separatist party Sortu.".

See also Talk:Carles Puigdemont#Controversial use of above RfC.

In addition, this edit deleted without reason " Basque Autonomous Community". I remind you that, as we can read in the Wikipedia page itself on the Basque Country (autonomous community), its official name is Basque Autonomous Community.

I will adjust the page to meet these criteria. --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 10:37, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Maybe you have not read this part of the text you cite (Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies#Context): "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." And Arnaldo Otegi is notable for being a Basque (a Basque independentist), not a Spanish. --Xabier Armendaritz^(talk) 08:03, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Xabier Armendaritz, please source your claim that Arnaldo Otegi is notable for being a Basque (a Basque independentist), not a Spanish. I'm not convinced this is true worldwide even if it is in Spain. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 08:16, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

For example, that's the way Arnaldo Otegi is cited in the public Spanish news agency EFE, with worldwide coverage ("Dirigente independentista vasco Otegi"), and The Irish Times ("Arnaldo Otegi, a leading figure of the Basque independence movement"). --Xabier Armendaritz^(talk) 08:37, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

You have demonstrated he is notable as Basque, however you haven't demonstrated he isn't notable as a Spanish politician. Spanish Basque activist Arnaldo Otegi jailed. I can also cite from the Irish Times Arnaldo Otegi – still Spain’s most divisive politician. These took me about 30 seconds to find. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 11:25, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Clearly Otegi doesn't identify as Spanish but we don't have to reflect his narrative. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 11:28, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

I beg your pardon? You must prove that he is mainly depicted as also Spanish, not as only Basque, if you differ from describing him as only Basque. Even I can bring another example from The Guardian: "Basque separatist leader Arnaldo Otegi". Moreover, that he is from Spain is already stated in the present text ("is a Basque politician from the Basque Autonomous Community in Spain"), so I think the present description is quite balanced. --Xabier Armendaritz^(talk) 14:29, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Five more examples from non-Basque and non-Spanish sources, depicting Otegi only as Basque:

1. Reuters: "Basque militant separatist".
2. The Telegraph: "Basque pro independence leader Arnaldo Otegi".
3. Libération: "Arnaldo Otegi, indépendantiste basque".
4. La Croix: "l'indépendantiste basque Otegi".
5. Al Jazeera: "Basque leader Arnaldo Otegi".

I hope this suffices. --Xabier Armendaritz^(talk) 14:56, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

I should add that, from the two examples given above in favor of depicting him as "Basque Spanish," only one is valid: the one from BBC. The one from The Irish Times describes him as a "Basque leader," nowhere does it describe Otegi as "Spanish." It says that he is a politician in Spain, but that it is already reflected in the present text, as stated above.

So in this talk page there is one source that says he is "Basque Spanish," versus eight sources that depict him only as "Basque." --Xabier Armendaritz^(talk) 16:38, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

I suggest waiting on the result of the MoS rfc on biographies, which we can then abide by. You haven't demonstrated yours is the major viewpoint. Even the Spanish wikipedia says he is Spanish. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 20:01, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

And the Basque Wikipedia says he is Basque. So what the Spanish Wikipedia says or doesn't say is of little relevance to us. We are best waiting for the RFC outcome. Valenciano (talk) 20:14, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

It is relevant as an indicator that "Spanish" represents a significant opinion, I'm not contesting he should also be described as Basque. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 10:08, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2021

Reference in the article to José Maria Aznar as Spain’s “President” in the 1990’s is factually incorrect - as a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system, the head of the Spanish government is the Prime Minister - somewhat confusingly referred to in Spanish as “el presidente del gobierno”. Correct translation: the Spanish Prime Minister. 91.180.68.80 (talk) 08:01, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 13:32, 25 October 2021 (UTC)