Talk:Taxation in medieval England: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Latest revision as of 16:16, 27 February 2024

A fact from Taxation in medieval England appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 16 January 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in 1194, one of the taxes in medieval England imposed a 25% tax on all personal property and income?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/January.

Wikipedia

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

England Low‑importance

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Taxation (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Taxation, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.TaxationWikipedia:WikiProject TaxationTemplate:WikiProject TaxationTaxation

Economics Low‑importance

	Business and economics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Economics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Economics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EconomicsWikipedia:WikiProject EconomicsTemplate:WikiProject EconomicsEconomics
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms Mid‑importance

	Anglo-Saxon England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Anglo-Saxon KingdomsWikipedia:WikiProject Anglo-Saxon KingdomsTemplate:WikiProject Anglo-Saxon KingdomsAnglo-Saxon Kingdoms
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Germany

I've been trying to work it out, but can't. The line "King Richard I who was captive in Germany" stikes me an anachronistic. Surely it was the Holy Roman Empire, not Germany? I'm trying to work out which constituent kingdom/duchy it would've been where Richard was held. Can anyone advise? --Jza84 | Talk 00:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, sorta. Germany is just about as accurate, although "germanies" would be close enough. If you wanna rephrase somehow, that's fine. He was first captured by ... Austria? I think... then transfered to the custody of the HREmperor, although ... they aren't really the HRE then either... German Emperor is a term often used at the time. It's all very ... imprecise, quite honestly. You could say "held for ransom by Henry VI" also. As our Holy Roman Emperor article says, it's not a contemporary term, and more modern historians generally have a trend towards not using the HRE in this context. Chibnall, in Empress Matilda calls Henry V, 'king of Germany', and refers to Germany as the region. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This makes sense yes. I was thinking more precision would generally help laymen and laywomen, and cause the least amount of upset. Using Wikipedia only, I can semi-deduce that he was held in Dürnstein Castle (so the Duchy of Austria and then Trifels Castle (Upper Burgundy? though I'm not as confident on that one). Using Germany just makes me picture confused readers down the line, so any alternative would be a stronger option (IMHO). --Jza84 | Talk 01:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That'll require a fuller better citation then, since the source being used there just basically says "Richard's ransom" and I've added on the "when he was help captive in Germany" as a "common knowledge" bit, but getting more specific will require a source for that information. If I was feeling a great pressing need to expand this article, I'd do that, but right now... (To do this topic well, would require about 5 times the information in it, it's basically just a start on the topic, one I don't really have a lot of interest in.) (And I'm certainly not editing at the moment with the weird UI issues... yikes!) Ealdgyth - Talk 01:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Recommended literature

Good article, though a bit thin on the late middle ages. I can recommend:

Johnson, C., ‘The collectors of lay taxes’, in W. A. Morris, and J. R. Strayer (eds.), The English Government at Work, 1327-1336 (Cambridge, Mass, 1947).
Mitchell, S.K., Taxation in Medieval England (New Haven, 1951).
Jewell, H.M., English Local Administration in the Middle Ages (Newton Abbot, 1972).
Harriss, G.L., King, Parliament and Public Finance in Medieval England to 1369 (Oxford, 1975).
Brown, A.L., The Governance of Late Medieval England 1272-1461 (London, 1989). Lampman (talk) 08:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have most of those, but this isn't an article I really plan on expanding much. I wrote it mainly because folks wanted more and more background on the FAC for Carucage and this was a way to avoid over stuffing the article. Feel free to add to the article! Ealdgyth - Talk 15:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{DYK talk|16 January|2010|... that in 1194, one of the '''[[Taxation in medieval England|taxes in medieval England]]''' imposed a 25% tax on all personal property and income?}}
-{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|1=
-{{WPMA}}
-{{WikiProject England}}
+{{WikiProject Middle Ages|importance=Low}}
-{{WikiProject Taxation}}
+{{WikiProject England|importance=Low}}
+{{WikiProject Taxation|importance=Mid}}
+{{WikiProject Economics|importance=Low}}
+{{WikiProject Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms|importance=Mid}}
 }}
 == Germany ==
-I've been trying to work it out, but can't. The line "King Richard I who was captive in Germany" stikes me an anachronistic. Surely it was the [[Holy Roman Empire]], not [[Germany]]? I'm trying to work out which constituent kingdom/duchy it would've been where Richard was held. Can anyone advise? <small>--<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">[[User:Jza84|<b>Jza84</b>]] | [[User_talk: Jza84|<font style="color:#000000;background:#D3D3D3;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</font>]] </span></small> 00:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
+I've been trying to work it out, but can't. The line "King Richard I who was captive in Germany" stikes me an anachronistic. Surely it was the [[Holy Roman Empire]], not [[Germany]]? I'm trying to work out which constituent kingdom/duchy it would've been where Richard was held. Can anyone advise? <small>--<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">[[User:Jza84|<b>Jza84</b>]] | [[User_talk: Jza84|<span style="color:#000000;background:#D3D3D3;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</span>]] </span></small> 00:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 : Well, sorta. Germany is just about as accurate, although "germanies" would be close enough. If you wanna rephrase somehow, that's fine. He was first captured by ... Austria? I think... then transfered to the custody of the HREmperor, although ... they aren't really the HRE then either... German Emperor is a term often used at the time. It's all very ... imprecise, quite honestly. You could say "held for ransom by Henry VI" also. As our [[Holy Roman Emperor]] article says, it's not a contemporary term, and more modern historians generally have a trend towards not using the HRE in this context. Chibnall, in ''Empress Matilda'' calls Henry V, 'king of Germany', and refers to Germany as the region. [[User:Ealdgyth|Ealdgyth]] - [[User talk:Ealdgyth|Talk]] 00:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
-::This makes sense yes. I was thinking more precision would generally help laymen and laywomen, and cause the least amount of upset. Using Wikipedia only, I can semi-deduce that he was held in [[Dürnstein Castle]] (so the [[Duchy of Austria]] and then [[Trifels Castle]] ([[Upper Burgundy]]? though I'm not as confident on that one). Using [[Germany]] just makes me picture confused readers down the line, so any alternative would be a stronger option (IMHO). <small>--<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">[[User:Jza84|<b>Jza84</b>]] | [[User_talk: Jza84|<font style="color:#000000;background:#D3D3D3;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</font>]] </span></small> 01:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
+::This makes sense yes. I was thinking more precision would generally help laymen and laywomen, and cause the least amount of upset. Using Wikipedia only, I can semi-deduce that he was held in [[Dürnstein Castle]] (so the [[Duchy of Austria]] and then [[Trifels Castle]] ([[Upper Burgundy]]? though I'm not as confident on that one). Using [[Germany]] just makes me picture confused readers down the line, so any alternative would be a stronger option (IMHO). <small>--<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">[[User:Jza84|<b>Jza84</b>]] | [[User_talk: Jza84|<span style="color:#000000;background:#D3D3D3;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</span>]] </span></small> 01:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
+::: That'll require a fuller better citation then, since the source being used there just basically says "Richard's ransom" and I've added on the "when he was help captive in Germany" as a "common knowledge" bit, but getting more specific will require a source for that information. If I was feeling a great pressing need to expand this article, I'd do that, but right now... (To do this topic well, would require about 5 times the information in it, it's basically just a start on the topic, one I don't really have a lot of interest in.) (And I'm certainly not editing at the moment with the weird UI issues... yikes!) [[User:Ealdgyth|Ealdgyth]] - [[User talk:Ealdgyth|Talk]] 01:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
+== Recommended literature ==
+Good article, though a bit thin on the late middle ages. I can recommend:
+*Johnson, C., ‘The collectors of lay taxes’, in W. A. Morris, and J. R. Strayer (eds.), ''The English Government at Work, 1327-1336'' (Cambridge, Mass, 1947).
+*Mitchell, S.K., ''Taxation in Medieval England'' (New Haven, 1951).
+*Jewell, H.M., ''English Local Administration in the Middle Ages'' (Newton Abbot, 1972).
+*Harriss, G.L., ''King, Parliament and Public Finance in Medieval England to 1369'' (Oxford, 1975).
+*Brown, A.L., ''The Governance of Late Medieval England 1272-1461'' (London, 1989). [[User:Lampman|Lampman]] ([[User talk:Lampman|talk]]) 08:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
+: I have most of those, but this isn't an article I really plan on expanding much. I wrote it mainly because folks wanted more and more background on the FAC for [[Carucage]] and this was a way to avoid over stuffing the article. Feel free to add to the article! [[User:Ealdgyth|Ealdgyth]] - [[User talk:Ealdgyth|Talk]] 15:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)