Talk:Smoke detector: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively

← Previous edit

Content deleted Content added

VisualWikitext

Inline

Latest revision as of 03:31, 28 February 2024

Firefighting High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Firefighting, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to firefighting on Wikipedia! If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.FirefightingWikipedia:WikiProject FirefightingTemplate:WikiProject FirefightingFirefighting articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

Electronics Low‑importance

	Electronics portal This article is part of WikiProject Electronics, an attempt to provide a standard approach to writing articles about electronics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. Leave messages at the project talk pageElectronicsWikipedia:WikiProject ElectronicsTemplate:WikiProject Electronicselectronic articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Home Living Mid‑importance

	Housing portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Home Living, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of home-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Home LivingWikipedia:WikiProject Home LivingTemplate:WikiProject Home Livinghome articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Occupational Safety and Health Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Occupational Safety and Health, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to occupational safety and health on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Occupational Safety and HealthWikipedia:WikiProject Occupational Safety and HealthTemplate:WikiProject Occupational Safety and HealthOccupational Safety and Health articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Archive 1

This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by .

frequency of certain causes of death

Hi! I think the article should describe in more detail, what the effects of a smoke detector are. Because: It looks like there were never so many final falls and terminal smoke intoxications as now (after they all have a smoke detector in their bedroom in F.Rep.Germany...)... Does anybody know some scientific studies? Thx. Bye. -- 2020-08-27T07:32:23UTC //forgot to sign... Homer Landskirty (talk) 14:40, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Erwin Sick

Apparently Erwin Sick is given credit for the first smoke detector, but not much has been written about it. Any more detailed information? "In 1956, Sick is granted the second patent for a new type of photoelectric retro-reflective sensor, followed in 1958 by the patent for the first smoke detection device in the world." ^[1] Rhynchosaur (talk) 16:59, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

TL:DR not relevant to the article-

This seems to be the original patent it is more of a security sensor (Photoelectric sensors | Reflex Array | SICK) used in industry production than a fire alarm product. Here is about there history on their own site: SICK's company history | SICK Fackbok.se (talk) 20:25, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Sensors, Sick celebrates 70 years

Added discussion of radiation

Added sections on radiation in and disposal of ionization smoke detectors, which are generally being replaced by photo-electric smoke detectors.

Officials at the US Department of Energy provided references to documents published by the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission that report on studies of Ionization smoke detectors done in about 1978 and 2001. They also provided links to a backgrounder by the NRC and another backgrounder by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Bruce Esrig (talk) 09:48, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Industrial Hygiene and Ergonomics- Graduate Student Projects

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2023 and 10 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Haljohan (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by UCIHGrad18 (talk) 14:48, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SMOKE DETECTORS VS SMOKE ALARMS

A smoke detector by definition only senses or detects. It has no audible or visual output. Detectors are used in fire alarm systems that have a control panel which the detector sends a signal to when it detects smoke, a heat rise or other material it is designed to sense. It is useless in almost all home applications. Smoke alarms are designed to both sense AND give off an audible and/or visual output such as a high db alarm, a strobe light or voice. Smoke alarms are what are used in single family homes or residences that are not required to have a fire alarm system. Umpyprof (talk) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The name "Smoke Detector" is commonly used to describe a combined detector+alarm and in normal use means the same as "Smoke Alarm". I am sure that pure detectors without any alarm function exist but this does not mean that the item known as as Smoke Detector "has no audible or visual output". Mtpaley (talk) 00:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You might have a point though on the order of redirect. Currently "Smoke Alarm" redirects to "Smoke Detector" and this article is clearly written with a domestic smoke alarm in mind. It might make more sense to reverse this and make smoke detector redirect to smoke alarm which is renamed from the current smoke detector page. Mtpaley (talk) 01:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you have ever taken or taught a fire alarm system course as I have, one of the first things you learn is that a smoke detector is not the same as a smoke alarm and using the terms interchangably may be a serious mistake, especially to those who are not familiar with the subject. In fact the subject comparing detectors to alarms is on provincial licencing exams for those who wish to work on fire alarm systems. If you are going to use technical terminology, use it correctly. If you want to continue to use the 2 terms synonymously go right ahead and hope you never give someone the wrong information. I'm not going to reply again. Any person who reads my post will certainly get my point. Umpyprof (talk) 02:36, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very few, if any, persons that are licensed to work on fire alarm systems are also inclined to edit Wikipedia. Your expertise in the area would be greatly appreciated as there is a deficiency in a lot of the fire safety material on this site, as evidenced by the inaccurate terminology used here in favor of the "more common" name. Recon rabbit 14:29, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Sensors, Sick celebrates 70 years

[1]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{WikiProject Fire Protection|class=B|importance=High}}
+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1=
-{{WikiProject Fire Service|class=B|importance=Mid}}
+{{WikiProject Firefighting|importance=High}}
-{{WikiProject Electronics |class=B |importance=Low}}
+{{WikiProject Electronics|importance=Low}}
+{{WikiProject Home Living|importance=Mid}}
-{{Auto archiving notice|bot=lowercase sigmabot III|age=30}}
+{{WikiProject Occupational Safety and Health|importance=Mid}}
-{{Archives}}
+}}
+{{Archives|age=30|bot=lowercase sigmabot III}}
 {{User:MiszaBot/config
 | archive        = Talk:Smoke detector/Archive %(counter)d
@@ Line 11: / Line 13: @@
 }}
-== POV of Performance differences section ==
+== frequency of certain causes of death ==
+[[File:Death-per-deaths.svg|thumb]]
-Ionization and photoelectric detectors each have their own merits, so why is the [[Smoke detector#Performance differences|Performance differences]] section so anti-ionization?! Even the comparison table in that section shows that ionization detectors are more sensitive to lower obscuration values, on average (yeah, okay, so there's one photoelectric model than can supposedly 0.2%/foot, but that's clearly an outlier if you follow the reference). Furthermore, photoelectric detectors obviously stand no chance of ever detecting invisible smoke particles, which obviously won't obscure anything. If ionization detectors are so "deadly", why are they still on the market and legal in most places? Why are there combination detectors that offer both ionization and photoelectric technologies if photoelectric can do everything that ionization can do—just better? I don't buy it. We should probably find the other side of the argument and [[WP:NPOV|represent it]] here. –&nbsp;<kbd>[[User:voidxor|<span style="color: #00F">void</span>]][[User talk:voidxor|<span style="color: #000">xor</span>]]</kbd> 21:16, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
+Hi!
+I think the article should describe in more detail, what the effects of a smoke detector are.
+Because:
+It looks like there were never so many final falls and terminal smoke intoxications as now (after they all have a smoke detector in their bedroom in F.Rep.Germany...)...
+Does anybody know some scientific studies?
+Thx. Bye. -- 2020-08-27T07:32:23UTC //forgot to sign... [[User:Homer Landskirty|Homer Landskirty]] ([[User talk:Homer Landskirty|talk]]) 14:40, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
+==Erwin Sick==
-: i think that section is POV on another level, too: what performance? in F.Rep.Germ. i cannot see any 40% drop in smoke/fire/flame deaths (ICD-10 X0...), although the legislative ordered a lot of those photoelectric devices... furthermore smoke/fire/flame per (official) inhabitant seems to be more often in the US than in F.Rep.Germ., although F.Rep.Germ. does not have smoke detectors for decades... a newspaper said, that there is no proof for the usefulness of a smoke detector... but of course i do as the gov orders and check the functionality weekly by pressing the test-functionality-button (my computer has an alarm for that)... :) --[[User:Homer Landskirty|Homer Landskirty]] ([[User talk:Homer Landskirty|talk]]) 07:13, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
+Apparently [[Erwin Sick]] is given credit for the first smoke detector, but not much has been written about it. Any more detailed information? "In 1956, Sick is granted the second patent for a new type of photoelectric retro-reflective sensor, followed in 1958 by the patent for the first smoke detection device in the world." <ref>[https://meccanica-plus.it/en/sensors-sick-celebrates-70-years_83150/ Sensors, Sick celebrates 70 years]</ref>  [[User:Rhynchosaur|Rhynchosaur]] ([[User talk:Rhynchosaur|talk]]) 16:59, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
+:TL:DR not relevant to the article-
-:: Should we maybe create a Legislation section and split the Performance differences section in half? That would at least take the biased chronological litany of local laws being passed, and move it away from the objective discussion of obscuration and the like. –&nbsp;<kbd>[[User:voidxor|<span style="color: #00F">void</span>]][[User talk:voidxor|<span style="color: #000">xor</span>]]</kbd> 22:27, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
+:This seems to be the [https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DDE952155C original patent] it is more of a security sensor ([https://www.sick.com/us/en/photoelectric-sensors/photoelectric-sensors/reflex-array/c/g197634 Photoelectric sensors | Reflex Array | SICK]) used in industry production than a fire alarm product. Here is about there history on their own site: [https://www.sick.com/us/en/about-sick/sicks-company-history/enwiki/w/the-history-of-sick/ SICK's company history | SICK] [[User:Fackbok.se|Fackbok.se]] ([[User talk:Fackbok.se|talk]]) 20:25, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
+{{reflist-talk}}
-::: sounds like pretty good idea... the local legislation told me, that their decision is based on "belief" and not on scientific studies... --[[User:Homer Landskirty|Homer Landskirty]] ([[User talk:Homer Landskirty|talk]]) 06:21, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
+== Added discussion of radiation ==
-:::: The question is asked above, "If ionization detectors are so "deadly", why are they still on the market and legal in most places?" The answer is because the manufacturers fight to keep the truth about them from the public evidenced by the Confidentiality Order placed on campaigners after ionization smoke alarm manufacturer Kidde (owned by UTC) failed to disclose the level of smoke their ionization alarm activated at under controlled scientific tests conducted by the Australian government scientific organization, the CSIRO. This was despite repeated requests by an Australian member of parliament:
-::::* Confidentiality Order: www.SmokeAlarmWarning.org/ba.html
-::::* Request for disclosure of smoke obscuration by Australian member of parliament: www.SmokeAlarmWarning.org/csiro.html
-::::* 60 Minutes Australia's  ionization smoke alarm exposé, 'The Alarming Truth' (Oct 2014): http://www.9jumpin.com.au/show/60minutes/stories/2014/october/the-alarming-truth/
-:::: <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2607:FCC8:8600:2600:29C7:DF81:FDAE:23D3|2607:FCC8:8600:2600:29C7:DF81:FDAE:23D3]] ([[User talk:2607:FCC8:8600:2600:29C7:DF81:FDAE:23D3|talk]]) 22:47, 3 August 2015 (UTC)</small>
+Added sections on radiation in and disposal of ionization smoke detectors, which are generally being replaced by photo-electric smoke detectors.
-::::: With all due respect, I worry your [[conspiracy theory]] might increase this article's bias toward photoelectric detectors, rather than helping to ensure [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutrality]]. I'll go ahead and split the section though, as [[User:Homer|Homer]] and I'd discussed. –&nbsp;<kbd>[[User:voidxor|<span style="color: #00F">void</span>]][[User talk:voidxor|<span style="color: #000">xor</span>]]</kbd> 19:15, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
+Officials at the US Department of Energy provided references to documents published by the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission that report on studies of Ionization smoke detectors done in about 1978 and 2001. They also provided links to a backgrounder by the NRC and another backgrounder by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). [[User:Bruce Esrig|Bruce Esrig]] ([[User talk:Bruce Esrig|talk]]) 09:48, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
-== External links modified ==
-Hello fellow Wikipedians,
-I have just modified {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Smoke detector]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=728343124 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
-*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120416013553/http://www.systemsensor.com:80/lifesafety/2011/05/sophisticated-strategic-fire-and-life-safety-in-mission-critical-applications/ to http://www.systemsensor.com/lifesafety/2011/05/sophisticated-strategic-fire-and-life-safety-in-mission-critical-applications/
-When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}).
-{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}
-Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 19:33, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
-== I'm impressed ==
-When I checked this page's history I was sure the recent Nathan for You episode would have resulted in a flood of vandalism to this article, referring to the smoke detector (more specifically the blues smoke detector) as a musical instrument. But nope, none at all. I don't know how we managed that, but good job, I guess. Even though I don't see how it would have been anything but luck. '''<span style="color: #060;">flarn</span><span style="color: #090;">2006</span>''' [''[[User:flarn2006|u]] [[User talk:flarn2006|t]] [[Special:Contributions/flarn2006|c]]''] time: 17:25, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
-== cause and effect... ==
-[[File:Fire_and_smoke_deaths_per_inhabitant_(F.Rep.GERM).svg|thumb|since 2007 it looks more red than yellow in F.Rep.Germ...]]
-[[File:F.Rep.Germ_t58,t59,x0,x76,y26.svg|thumb|since 2007 the smoke poisoning increases in F.Rep.Germ...]]
-[[File:Fall,ppm_inhabitants,F.Rep.GERM.svg|thumb|since 2007 the number of final falls increases in F.Rep.Germ...]]
-Hi!
-R there any scientific studies, that show the effect of a smoke detector?
-In germany it seems to be a mostly paradox effect,
-since they have legislation (appr. 2007) that enforces a smoke detector in escape paths and bedrooms...
-Thx. Bye. --[[User:Homer Landskirty|Homer Landskirty]] ([[User talk:Homer Landskirty|talk]]) 11:05, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
-Hi!
-* Is it normal, that final smoke intoxication gets more frequent, when u introduce smoke detectors?
-* I mean: did that happen in the US/UK/Sweden, too?
-Thx. Bye. --[[User:Homer Landskirty|Homer Landskirty]] ([[User talk:Homer Landskirty|talk]]) 10:38, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
-: strangely the X0 and T58 rate seems to be correlated, but then T58 rises independently since 2009... as if it is decoupled now... does someone here know, if it is still X0, when the patient is treated in an ICU for some days? --[[User:Homer Landskirty|Homer Landskirty]] ([[User talk:Homer Landskirty|talk]]) 23:25, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
-Hi!
-* The final falls increased, too...
-Thx. Bye. --[[User:Homer Landskirty|Homer Landskirty]] ([[User talk:Homer Landskirty|talk]]) 23:23, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
+==Wiki Education assignment: Industrial Hygiene and Ergonomics- Graduate Student Projects==
-== official statement ==
+{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/UNC_Charlotte/Industrial_Hygiene_and_Ergonomics-_Graduate_Student_Projects_(Spring_2023) | assignments = [[User:Haljohan|Haljohan]] | start_date = 2023-01-09 | end_date = 2023-05-10 }}
+<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:UCIHGrad18|UCIHGrad18]] ([[User talk:UCIHGrad18|talk]]) 14:48, 13 March 2023 (UTC)</span>
-The government of Baden-Würtemberg has not done and is not planning to perform an evaluation: see [https://fragdenstaat.de/anfrage/rauchmelderpflicht-wirksamkeit/]  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/178.7.195.200|178.7.195.200]] ([[User talk:178.7.195.200#top|talk]]) 17:46, 21 February 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+== SMOKE DETECTORS VS SMOKE ALARMS ==
-: the German Medical Association does not know anything about it, too... https://fragdenstaat.de/anfrage/finale-sturze/ --[[User:Homer Landskirty|Homer Landskirty]] ([[User talk:Homer Landskirty|talk]]) 23:23, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
+A smoke detector by definition only senses or detects. It has no audible or visual output. Detectors are used in fire alarm systems that have a control panel which the detector sends a signal to when it detects smoke, a heat rise or other material it is designed to sense. It is useless in almost all home applications. Smoke alarms are designed to both sense AND give off an audible and/or visual output such as a high db alarm, a strobe light or voice. Smoke alarms are what are used in single family homes or residences that are not required to have a fire alarm system. [[User:Umpyprof|Umpyprof]] ([[User talk:Umpyprof|talk]]) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
-:: Stiftung Warentest recommends (2019) only detectors with long life (10 year) battery. As rationale is given: ''"Da die Batterien häufig gewechselt werden müssen, ist die Ersparnis klein. Sie steht in keinem Verhältnis zum Aufwand fürs Wechseln der 9-Volt-Batterien sowie zum Unfallrisiko beim Leiterklettern."'' [https://www.test.de/Rauchmelder-im-Test-4957385-0/] My translation: Since the battery needs to be changed frequently, the saving is small. It does not compensate the effort for changing the battery and the risk of an accident when climbing a ladder.   <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/178.2.176.255|178.2.176.255]] ([[User talk:178.2.176.255#top|talk]]) 22:14, 8 March 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+:The name "Smoke Detector" is commonly used to describe a combined detector+alarm and in normal use means the same as "Smoke Alarm".  I am sure that pure detectors without any alarm function exist but this does not mean that the item known as as Smoke Detector "has no audible or visual output". [[User:Mtpaley|Mtpaley]] ([[User talk:Mtpaley|talk]]) 00:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
-::: so they admit, that the smoke detectors have a paradox effect? but they still want those horrible inspections in my bedroom every year? --[[User:Homer Landskirty|Homer Landskirty]] ([[User talk:Homer Landskirty|talk]]) 10:40, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
+:You might have a point though on the order of redirect.  Currently "Smoke Alarm" redirects to "Smoke Detector" and this article is clearly written with a domestic smoke alarm in mind.  It might make more sense to reverse this and make smoke detector redirect to smoke alarm which is renamed from the current smoke detector page. [[User:Mtpaley|Mtpaley]] ([[User talk:Mtpaley|talk]]) 01:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
+::If you have ever taken or taught a fire alarm system course as I have, one of the first things you learn is that a smoke detector is not the same as a smoke alarm and using the terms interchangably may be a serious mistake, especially to those who are not familiar with the subject. In fact the subject comparing detectors to alarms is on provincial licencing exams for those who wish to work on fire alarm systems. If you are going to use technical terminology, use it correctly. If you want to continue to use the 2 terms synonymously go right ahead and hope you never give someone the wrong information. I'm not going to reply again. Any person who reads my post will certainly get my point. [[User:Umpyprof|Umpyprof]] ([[User talk:Umpyprof|talk]]) 02:36, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
+:::Very few, if any, persons that are licensed to work on fire alarm systems are also inclined to edit Wikipedia. Your expertise in the area would be greatly appreciated as there is a deficiency in a lot of the fire safety material on this site, as evidenced by the inaccurate terminology used here in favor of the "more common" name. [[User:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#6BAD2D">Recon</span>]][[User talk:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#2F3833">rabbit</span>]] 14:29, 22 February 2024 (UTC)