Talk:Hundred Days: Difference between revisions
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{{OnThisDay|date1=2006-02-26|oldid1=41379525|date2=2007-02-26|oldid2=110960840|date3=2009-03-20|oldid3=278368801|date4=2010-03-20|oldid4=350726984|date5=2011-02-26|oldid5=416050673|date6=2012-03-20|oldid6=482804397|date7=2014-03-20|oldid7=600462598|date8=2017-03-20|oldid8=771161909|date9=2022-03-20|oldid9=1078230275}} |
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{{old move|date=14 August 2022|destination=War of the Seventh Coalition|result=not moved|link=Special:Permalink/1104904101#Requested move 14 August 2022}} |
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== February 2017 == |
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:''Also see the section above this one ([[#Please explain why you think "on the morning" is better than "in the morning" on the talk page...]])'' |
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Since my last edit there have been a number of edits some of them were reverts of my last revert edits, despite the fact that that there was not a consensus for them per [[WP:BRD]]. To help stabilise the situation I am going to list the reverts I am making and the reason for them: |
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*The [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Hundred_Days&type=revision&diff=764403872&oldid=760427349 diff] from which I am working. The removals are in red |
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#removed "accompanied by the municipal body{{red|,}}" — it is better as a clause because the sentence can be constructed without the clause "Count Chabrol addressed Louis XVIII in..." |
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#Cosmetic changes such as removing a space in "British involvement" — I will not comment on any other such changes. |
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#"with some 1,000 men{{red|,}} and landed at [[Golfe-Juan]]{{red|,}} between [[Cannes]] and [[Antibes]]{{red|,}} on 1 March 1815" — an Oxford comma is not needed before the and as there is no other "and" in the sentence there is no need to distinguish sub-clauses. The other commas are not needed, but in this case I will leave the in place as they do no harm, but in other places where I think they are unhelpfulbI will revert them without further comment. If another party disagrees with the revert then please discuss them further on this talk page before reverting reverts. |
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#{{red|<nowiki>''</nowiki>}}"If any of you will shoot his Emperor, here I am."{{red|<nowiki>''</nowiki>}} The added double single quotes turns the quote in to italics. This is contrary to the MOSS see [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Italics and quotations]] so I am removing all such changes. |
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#{{red|"}}ought to be brought to Paris in an iron cage{{red|"}} the source does not have it as a quote and it may well be paraphrasing (particularly as the original was in French) — so I am removing the quotes and they should not be put back without a inline citation to back them up. |
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#Lanjuinais —I have left the initial full name uncovered by an intermediate edit, but have made an alteration to the text (not a revert) to remove the second link to a mention of the man (per [[MOS:DUPLINK]]). |
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#south west —I have put back the hyphen (south-west) for all such compass points (see [[MOS:COMPASS]]). |
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#I have reverted the change "At the Congress of Vienna, the [[Concert of Europe|Great Powers of Europe]]" to "At the Congress of Vienna, the Great Powers of Europe (Austria, Great Britain, Prussia and Russia)" because the [[Concert of Europe]] is a post Napoleonic era term and linking to it is unhelpful: see [[Quadruple Alliance (1815)]] and the [[Holy Alliance]], as well as the [[Concert of Europe]] to see why. |
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#I have removed the addition of "''[[francs-tireurs]]'' {{red|(civilian snipers)}} because ''francs-tireurs'' as the article says at this time: "During the wars of the French Revolution, a franc-tireur was a member of a corps of light infantry organized separately from the regular army." Light infantry are not "civilian snipers", their closet equivalent in the British army were the Rifle regiments such as the [[95th Foot]], in this case they would probably be closer to the [[Levée en masse]] of the early revolutionary wars. This is a highly controversial issue, because of the attitude of the Prussians towards guerilla warfare verged on fanatical hatred and it lasted in successor German armies up until the the destruction of the ''Wehrmacht'' at the end of Second World War (see [[Martens Clause]]). |
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#reverted "small-scale combat" to "in detail" — "in detail" is a term of art and is not the same as "small-scale combat" for example the [[Battle of Ligny]] was not "small-scale combat". I have linked it to the article [[Defeat in detail]] |
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#reverted "drove for the Prussian outposts" to "drove in the Prussian outposts" it is a different meaning of drove this meanin is "smashed in" not the "driving" of animals attached to carts (or the driving of motorcars). |
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#reverted "placing their forces at [[Mont-Saint-Jean, Belgium|Mont-Saint-Jean]]," to "and secured Napoleon's favoured "central position". This shows a total misunderstanding of the campaign. Mont-Saint-Jean was not the central position it was close to the centre of Wellington's cantonments (his headquarters were in Brussels). Napoleon did not get there until the 18th of June he was driving the wedge as the paragraph starts by saying on the 15th of June. |
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#revert "who had died shortly" to " to "where she had died shortly" the significance is to the place ''where'' she died. |
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#revert "addressed the king" to "addressed the King" see [[MOS:JOBTITLES]] bullet point 2. |
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#revert "which were known to harbour many royalists" to "which were known to contain many royalists" for the reasons given both in the previous section and in [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 574#Can Admins make changes to an article that don't show on the History?|this tea house archive]]. |
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#reverted "with sufficient numbers of experienced troops" to "with a leavening of experienced troops" the metaphor of "leavening" is cleared as it explains what was sufficient and why. |
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#reverted "turning on 28 June to {{red|oppose}} the 40,000" to "turning on 28 June to check the 40,000". "check" explains the reason for turning it iwas what in military terminology is called a "holding action" see for example: "The Union Army of Virginia was saved from destruction by an effective rearguard action and hasty retreat across Bull Run Creek" ({{citation|last1=Murray|first1=Professor of Archaeology Tim|last2=Murray|first2=Tim|title=Memoirs of a Texan: War|url=|date=December 2009|publisher=FastPencil Inc|isbn=978-1-60746-118-0|page=[https://books.google.com/books?id=1lLtuS6ASV0C&pg=PA103 103]}}) or the [[action at Genappe]] (17 June 1815) |
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-- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 17:45, 19 February 2017 (UTC) |
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== Switzerland and Liechtenstien == |
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Were Switzerland and Liechtenstein really belligerents during this period ? I don't see any mention of them. |
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--[[User:21stCenturySloth|21stCenturySloth]] ([[User talk:21stCenturySloth|talk]]) 11:50, 30 April 2019 (UTC) |
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== "Inconstant" carried 1,000 men? == |
== "Inconstant" carried 1,000 men? == |
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== Requested move 14 August 2022 == |
== Requested move 14 August 2022 == |
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<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top --> |
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{{requested move/dated|War of the Seventh Coalition}} |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. '' |
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The result of the move request was: '''not moved.''' <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small> [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 04:12, 21 August 2022 (UTC) |
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---- |
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[[:Hundred Days]] → {{no redirect|War of the Seventh Coalition}} – Consistency with the wars of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_First_Coalition First], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Second_Coalition Second], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Third_Coalition Third], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Fourth_Coalition Fourth], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Fifth_Coalition Fifth], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Sixth_Coalition Sixth] Coalitions, per [[WP:CRITERIA]]. [[User:Spekkios|Spekkios]] ([[User talk:Spekkios|talk]]) 03:14, 14 August 2022 (UTC) |
[[:Hundred Days]] → {{no redirect|War of the Seventh Coalition}} – Consistency with the wars of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_First_Coalition First], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Second_Coalition Second], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Third_Coalition Third], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Fourth_Coalition Fourth], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Fifth_Coalition Fifth], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Sixth_Coalition Sixth] Coalitions, per [[WP:CRITERIA]]. [[User:Spekkios|Spekkios]] ([[User talk:Spekkios|talk]]) 03:14, 14 August 2022 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''': [[Hundred Days]] gets [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/redirectviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&sort=views&direction=1&view=list&page=Hundred%20Days far more hits]. [[User:YorkshireExpat|YorkshireExpat]] ([[User talk:YorkshireExpat|talk]]) 15:43, 14 August 2022 (UTC) |
* '''Oppose''': [[Hundred Days]] gets [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/redirectviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&sort=views&direction=1&view=list&page=Hundred%20Days far more hits]. [[User:YorkshireExpat|YorkshireExpat]] ([[User talk:YorkshireExpat|talk]]) 15:43, 14 August 2022 (UTC) |
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* '''Comment''': On the matter of consistency, the current procedure of simply qualifying this when appropriate as the "War of the Seventh Coalition, also known as the Hundred Days (March – July 1815)" like is the case of the [[French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars]] page should be sufficient for that regard. "Hundred Days" is a clear case of [[WP:COMMONNAME]] within historiography to maintain it as the title. [[User:Sleath56|Sleath56]] ([[User talk:Sleath56|talk]]) 20:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC) |
* '''Comment''': On the matter of consistency, the current procedure of simply qualifying this when appropriate as the "War of the Seventh Coalition, also known as the Hundred Days (March – July 1815)" like is the case of the [[French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars]] page should be sufficient for that regard. "Hundred Days" is a clear case of [[WP:COMMONNAME]] within historiography to maintain it as the title. [[User:Sleath56|Sleath56]] ([[User talk:Sleath56|talk]]) 20:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 13:13, 17 August 2022 (UTC) |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] --> |
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</div><div style="clear:both;"></div> |
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== Belligerents == |
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While writing the [[List of battles of the Hundred Days]], I noticed that many alleged belligerents in the infobox of this article aren't mentioned anywhere else as participating in combat, e.g. Sweden, Baden, Liechtenstein, Saxony. Looks like Russian, Danish, Portuguese, Spanish etc. troops never saw combat action, but were only kept in reserve, and had some occupation duties after other forces cleared Napoleonic forces, or arrived too late to take part. The precise situation is unknown, especially because most of these claims in the infobox and the main body are [[WP:UNSOURCED]]. I've done some improvements, but I ran into more problems in doing so. It is striking that many of the states who were allegedly belligerents according to the infobox are not mentioned as having mobilised according to the infobox at [[Military mobilisation during the Hundred Days]]: Baden, Bavaria, Denmark, Liechtenstein, Portugal, Saxony, Sicily, Spain, Sweden, Tuscany, Württemberg, not even Naples. We do know some of these saw action (Sicily, Tuscany, Württemberg, and Naples were active in the [[Neapolitan War]], for example), so this doesn't say everything yet. It could be that some troops were submerged in larger units under the command of an officer from some other state, e.g. Bavarian and Sardinian troops in an Austrian-dominated unit with an Austrian commander, so that doesn't mean these states did not participate. But we really need RS for [[WP:V]] on these claims. We can't just go around saying every little state in Europe *cough* Liechtenstein *cough* played a part in defeating Napoleon because they had like 20 soldiers in reserve that never marched towards the battlefield, let alone saw combat action. Cheers, [[User:Nederlandse Leeuw|Nederlandse Leeuw]] ([[User talk:Nederlandse Leeuw|talk]]) 13:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC) |
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== CN Spam == |
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I replaced the fifteen <nowiki>{{cn|date=November 2022}} tags with a single {{More citations needed section|date=November 2022}} tag</nowiki>. Citation Needed spam makes any article hard to read, but having the tag at the end of nearly every line ''in a list'' is especially dreadful. Can we please not put them back unless we can get it down to less than half? Cheers, [[User:Last1in|Last1in]] ([[User talk:Last1in|talk]]) 00:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 09:32, 8 March 2024
This level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on February 26, 2006, February 26, 2007, March 20, 2009, March 20, 2010, February 26, 2011, March 20, 2012, March 20, 2014, March 20, 2017, and March 20, 2022. |
On 14 August 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to War of the Seventh Coalition. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Index
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This page has archives. Sections older than 61 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
"Inconstant" carried 1,000 men?
[edit]Under the heading "Return to France", the second sentence states "On 26 February 1815, when the British and French guard ships were absent, he slipped away from Portoferraio on board the French brig Inconstant with some 1,000 men and landed at Golfe-Juan..." (emphasis added). This is confusingly written, as it suggests that there were "some 1,000 men" aboard the "Inconstant" with Napoleon; an impossibility. That ship was a mere 96 feet long, and normally carried no more than 160 men. There would be no space aboard such a small ship to fit 1,000 men, and their weight would have sunk her! Perhaps the bulk of the men were borne by other craft that accompanied the "Inconstant". Can someone more knowledgeable about this particular incident rewrite this to clarify? Bricology (talk) 20:52, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
- I've added some details of Napoleon's fleet. Tevildo (talk) 06:43, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
"Kingdom of France" versus "France"
[edit]I'm not exactly clear on why the troops of the deposed Napoleon escaping from Elba count in the belligerents list as representing "France" while the actual government of France after Napoleon was deposed is relegated to being the "Kingdom of France". Shouldn't the belligerents on Napoleon's side be identified as "Bonapartists" at this point rather than as if they were "France"? Zachary Klaas (talk) 14:58, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
Requested move 14 August 2022
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 04:12, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Hundred Days → War of the Seventh Coalition – Consistency with the wars of the First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Coalitions, per WP:CRITERIA. Spekkios (talk) 03:14, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. "Hundred Days" is by far the common name. Walrasiad (talk) 13:31, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose: Hundred Days gets far more hits. YorkshireExpat (talk) 15:43, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: On the matter of consistency, the current procedure of simply qualifying this when appropriate as the "War of the Seventh Coalition, also known as the Hundred Days (March – July 1815)" like is the case of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars page should be sufficient for that regard. "Hundred Days" is a clear case of WP:COMMONNAME within historiography to maintain it as the title. Sleath56 (talk) 20:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:13, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Belligerents
[edit]While writing the List of battles of the Hundred Days, I noticed that many alleged belligerents in the infobox of this article aren't mentioned anywhere else as participating in combat, e.g. Sweden, Baden, Liechtenstein, Saxony. Looks like Russian, Danish, Portuguese, Spanish etc. troops never saw combat action, but were only kept in reserve, and had some occupation duties after other forces cleared Napoleonic forces, or arrived too late to take part. The precise situation is unknown, especially because most of these claims in the infobox and the main body are WP:UNSOURCED. I've done some improvements, but I ran into more problems in doing so. It is striking that many of the states who were allegedly belligerents according to the infobox are not mentioned as having mobilised according to the infobox at Military mobilisation during the Hundred Days: Baden, Bavaria, Denmark, Liechtenstein, Portugal, Saxony, Sicily, Spain, Sweden, Tuscany, Württemberg, not even Naples. We do know some of these saw action (Sicily, Tuscany, Württemberg, and Naples were active in the Neapolitan War, for example), so this doesn't say everything yet. It could be that some troops were submerged in larger units under the command of an officer from some other state, e.g. Bavarian and Sardinian troops in an Austrian-dominated unit with an Austrian commander, so that doesn't mean these states did not participate. But we really need RS for WP:V on these claims. We can't just go around saying every little state in Europe *cough* Liechtenstein *cough* played a part in defeating Napoleon because they had like 20 soldiers in reserve that never marched towards the battlefield, let alone saw combat action. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
CN Spam
[edit]I replaced the fifteen {{cn|date=November 2022}} tags with a single {{More citations needed section|date=November 2022}} tag. Citation Needed spam makes any article hard to read, but having the tag at the end of nearly every line in a list is especially dreadful. Can we please not put them back unless we can get it down to less than half? Cheers, Last1in (talk) 00:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- C-Class level-5 vital articles
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- All WikiProject France pages
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