Talk:Hundred Days: Difference between revisions
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{{OnThisDay|date1=2006-02-26|oldid1=41379525|date2=2007-02-26|oldid2=110960840|date3=2009-03-20|oldid3=278368801|date4=2010-03-20|oldid4=350726984|date5=2011-02-26|oldid5=416050673|date6=2012-03-20|oldid6=482804397|date7=2014-03-20|oldid7=600462598}} |
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== "Inconstant" carried 1,000 men? == |
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== New articles == |
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Under the heading "Return to France", the second sentence states "<i>On 26 February 1815, when the British and French guard ships were absent, he slipped away from Portoferraio on board the French brig Inconstant <b>with some 1,000 men</b> and landed at Golfe-Juan..."</i> (emphasis added). This is confusingly written, as it suggests that there were "some 1,000 men" aboard the "Inconstant" with Napoleon; an impossibility. That ship was a mere 96 feet long, and normally carried no more than 160 men. There would be no space aboard such a small ship to fit 1,000 men, and their weight would have sunk her! Perhaps the bulk of the men were borne by <i>other</i> craft that accompanied the "Inconstant". Can someone more knowledgeable about this particular incident rewrite this to clarify? [[User:Bricology|Bricology]] ([[User talk:Bricology|talk]]) 20:52, 23 May 2021 (UTC) |
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One of the new articles is the [[Waterloo Campaign]] previously a redirect to this article. Most of the content for this article is copied from sections in this one. For more details see [[Talk:Battle of Waterloo#New articles]] -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 13:48, 16 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:I've added some details of Napoleon's fleet. [[User:Tevildo|Tevildo]] ([[User talk:Tevildo|talk]]) 06:43, 14 August 2022 (UTC) |
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== "Kingdom of France" versus "France" == |
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== Civilian casualties == |
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I'm not exactly clear on why the troops of the deposed Napoleon escaping from Elba count in the belligerents list as representing "France" while the actual government of France after Napoleon was deposed is relegated to being the "Kingdom of France". Shouldn't the belligerents on Napoleon's side be identified as "Bonapartists" at this point rather than as if they were "France"? [[User:Zachary Klaas|Zachary Klaas]] ([[User talk:Zachary Klaas|talk]]) 14:58, 18 June 2022 (UTC) |
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Should there be some mention of civilian casualties? I know the war was driven by large set piece battles and army manoeuvres but there must be some sources covering the impact on the local population.[[User:Geni|©Geni]] ([[User talk:Geni|talk]]) 04:38, 12 May 2015 (UTC) |
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== Requested move 14 August 2022 == |
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I am extracting a detailed account of the advance/retreat from Waterloo to Paris from William Silburn's books. There were some civilian casualties, but no numbers are given and it seems to have been mainly rape and pillage rather than murder. |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. '' |
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The result of the move request was: '''not moved.''' <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small> [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 04:12, 21 August 2022 (UTC) |
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At the moment there is a brief mention [[Waterloo Campaign#Invasion of France and the occupation of Paris (18 June – 7 July)]] of the problems. Wellington forbade his army to pillage ([[s:Nevilles general order]]) and issued the [[Malplaquet proclamation]], but Blucher's Prussians considered the French enemies and according they plundered the populace and wantonly destroyed property during their advanced (Gifford 1817, p. 1494). It was particularly bad/notable at surrender of [[Avesnes]] (Gifford 1817, p. 1494). |
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Some Dutch-Belgian troops did pillage and to officers identified as taking part were dismissed from Wellington's army and sent them to the King of the Netherlands to punish them at his discression. (Siborne 1848, p. 703). It was not that the British soldiers were angels in comparison to their allies, its just they knew very well what Wellington thought of them ("scum of the earth") and knew with certainty that he would hang any of them who disobeyed his orders -- the veterans had also seen the difference in the behaviour of the Spanish and French population towards their invaders during the Peninsula War, so knew that Wellington's approach had positive affects for them. |
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There were also bound to have been incidental civilians deaths in the storming of some towns. One can not fire artillery rounds into an inhabited town and always miss civilians, but these are not systematically recorded in the general histories that I have read. |
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*{{Citation|ref=none |last=Gifford |first=C. H. |year=1817 |title=History of the Wars Occasioned by the French Revolution, from the Commencement of Hostilities in 1792, to the End of 1816: Embracing a Complete History of the Revolution|publisher=W. Lewis |page=[http://books.google.com/books?id=GioLAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1494 1494]}} |
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*{{Citation|ref=none |last=Siborne |first=William |year=1848 |title=The Waterloo Campaign, 1815 |edition=4th |location=Westminster |publisher=A. Constable |url=http://archive.org/details/waterloocampaig01sibogoog}} |
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However the [[Waterloo Campaign]] was not the only campaign in the [[Minor campaigns of 1815]]. The [[Hundred Days#Civil War|Civil War]] in La Vendée must have involved casualties (if only of the sort of tit-for-tat executions). In several places during the advance of the Army of the Upper Rhine (Austo-German Army), the Austrians inflicted reprisals on the civilian population for real or imagined attacks by civilians. For example General Rappe states in his memoirs "The enemy's General revenged himself for this defeat by devastation. The day after the battle he set on fire the village of Souffelweyersheim, under pretext that the peasants had fired on his troops. "This was not the fact, and the name of the Crown Prince of [[William I of Württemberg|Württemberg]] will remain for ever sullied by an action which plunged a multitude of families into misery" (Rapp 1823, p. 370). |
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*{{Citation|ref=none |last=Rapp |first=comte Jean |year=1823 |title=Memoirs of General Count Rapp: First Aide-de-camp to Napoleon |publisher=H. Colburn and Company |pages=[http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0gdBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA359#v=onepage&q&f=false 359]– |url=https://archive.org/details/memoirsofgeneral00rapp}} |
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There were other similar instances elsewhere. Here is an extract from another contemporary account which details some attacks on civilians and justifies them using a common view of many supporters of the Coalition forces (after 25 years of near continuous war): |
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{{collapse top|}} |
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Some idea may be formed of the vast force of the allies, which entered France in this direction, when it is known that the Austrian force disposable on the Upper Loire, exclusive of the armies from Italy, amounted to 100,000 men.(M'Queen 1816, pp. 418–419) |
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The advance of the main armies gave the numerous free corps assembled in Alsace and the Vosges mountains, opportunities to attack the line of the allied communication and carry off the baggage. But the continued advance of fresh troops, gave the allies an opportunity of organizing a sufficient force in moveable columns, which soon cleared the country of these marauders, who equally annoyed friend and foe; and whom the allies treated with great severity, as they exercised the greatest cruelties upon the allied troops who fell into their hands. In this difficult undertaking, the hardy and indefatigable Sons of the Don were employed; and whose perseverance soon ferreted out, and destroyed these troublesome bands.(M'Queen 1816, pp. 419) |
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The disposition of a great part of the people of this part of France was, and had always been, most hostile and rancorous against the allies; and this hatred now showed itself in numerous instances, which brought down destruction on their heads. The villages of [[Hogentheim]] and [[Mulhouse|Mülhausen]] gave the first-example of the most shocking excesses. In the former, a German soldier, after having his eyes put out, was hung up alive. The most dreadful punishment followed upon the instant. The aged, the women, and the children, suffered with the wicked perpetrators.(M'Queen 1816, p. 419) |
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At [[Mulhouse|Mülhausen]], two soldiers were shot by a clergyman. His house was surrounded, and he was destroyed with it. Half a league from this, six h[[uhlan]]s inquired at a boy in a farm-house, the name of the next village—instead of answering, a man was shot from his horse. The boy was immediately cut down by the side of his mother. Similar was the conduct of the people in this part of France, and similar was their punishment. Wherever the allied troops met with resistance from the country people, every thing was destroyed. [I slightly reorders the wording in the next sentence (PBS):] Accounts from that quarter said: |
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{{quote| |
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"For six days, the sky has been red every day with the flames of burning villages. Where a single shot is directed from them upon the allies, all is levelled to the ground. A dreadful judgment hangs over France—the crimes of preceding times are visited upon their descendants, who rival them in the commission of enormities." |
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}} |
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Indeed, in numerous instances, the French people seem to have lost all sense of honour, justice, and regard for truth; and seemed to make these principles their sport (M'Queen 1816, pp. 419–420). |
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*{{Citation|ref=none |last=M'Queen |first=James |year=1816 |title=A narrative of the political and military events, of 1815; intended to complete the narrative of the campaigns of 1812, 1813, and 1814 |pages=[http://books.google.com/books?id=aF8IAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA418 418]–}} |
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{{collapse bottom}} |
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So yes there were civilian casualties but I do not know of any source that has tried to estimate how many. -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 10:51, 12 May 2015 (UTC) |
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==War of the Seventh Coalition and Hundred Days== |
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Should these article really be the same? [[User:Uspzor|Uspzor]] ([[User talk:Uspzor|talk]]) 01:24, 31 October 2014 (UTC) |
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:For those who do not realise: the [[War of the Seventh Coalition]] currently redirects to here. Given the underdevelopment of this article, what is it that you would include (or if you prefer exclude) and what new information would you add to an article on the [[War of the Seventh Coalition]] that would not appear this article? -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 09:27, 9 November 2014 (UTC) |
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::IMO the Hundred Days are about the government of Napoleon as a whole and the Seventh Coalition about the war itself. [[User:Uspzor|Uspzor]] ([[User talk:Uspzor|talk]]) 17:18, 9 November 2014 (UTC) |
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Does any one else supports this? What do you think [[User:PBS|PBS]]? [[User:AdjectivesAreBad|AdjectivesAreBad]] ([[User talk:AdjectivesAreBad|talk]]) 08:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC) |
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I have created a table of articles to show what exists and a possible way of view them: |
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{{chart top|width=100%|Articles on the [[Hundred Days]]}} |
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{{chart/start}} |
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{{chart|boxstyle=background:lightyellow;||||||||||||WA6|WA6=[[War of the Sixth Coalition]]}} |
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{{chart|||||||,|-|-|-|v|-|^|-|v|-|-|.|}} |
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{{chart|boxstyle=background:lightyellow;||||||CAMP14NE||CAMP14SW||FON| |PEA14|CAMP14NE=[[Campaign in north-east France (1814)]]||CAMP14SW=[[Campaign in south-west France (1814)]]|FON=[[Treaty of Fontainebleau (1814)]]|PEA14=[[Treaty of Paris (1814)]]}} |
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{{chart|||||||||||||S|P|Z}} |
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{{chart|boxstyle=background:lightpink;||||||||||||ELB|ELB=[[Isle of Elba]]}} |
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{{chart|||||||||||S|P|Z}} |
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{{chart||||||CON|P|HUN|P|PEA15|HUN=[[Hundred Days]]|CON=[[Congress of Vienna]]|PEA15=[[Treaty of Paris (1815)]]}} |
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{{chart|||,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.}} |
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{{chart||NEO| |MIN| |WAT| |FPG |NEO=[[Neapolitan War]]|MIN=[[Minor campaigns of 1815]]|WAT=[[Waterloo Campaign]]|FPG=[[French Provisional Government (1815)]]}} |
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{{chart||!|||||!||||!|}} |
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{{chart||`|NEOC||)|MIL|)|OOB|NEOC={{Campaignbox Neapolitan War}} |MIL=[[Military mobilisation during the Hundred Days]] |OOB=[[Order of Battle of the Waterloo Campaign|Order of Battle]]}} |
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{{chart|| |||||!||||!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | |)|ROC|)|WCS| |ROC=[[Battle of Rocheserviere]] |WCS=[[Waterloo Campaign: Start of hostilities (15 June)|Start of hostilities]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | |!||||!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | |`|SUF|)|BAL|SUF=[[Battle of La Suffel]]||BAL=[[Duchess of Richmond's ball]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | ||||!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | ||||||)|QUA|-|LIG |SUF=[[Battle of La Suffel]]|QUA=[[Battle of Quatre Bras]]|LIG=[[Battle of Ligny]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!| || |! |}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|`|OOBQ|` |OOBL|OOBQ=[[Quatre Bras order of battle]] |OOBL=[[Ligny order of battle]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | ||||!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | ||||||)|QUA|-|LIG |QUA=[[Waterloo Campaign: Quatre Bras to Waterloo|Quatre Bras to Waterloo]]|LIG=[[Waterloo Campaign: Ligny through Wavre to Waterloo|Ligny through Wavre to Waterloo]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | ||||!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | ||||||)|WAT|-|WAV |WAT=[[Battle of Waterloo]]|WAV=[[Battle of Wavre]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|)|BFL|BFL=[[List of Waterloo Battlefield locations]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|)|LOC|-|SF|-|WAT|-|MSG|LOC=North|SF=[[Sonian Forest]]|WAT=[[Waterloo, Belgium|Waterloo]]|MSG=[[Mont-Saint-Jean, Waterloo|Mont-Saint-Jean]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|)|LOC|-|ONE|-|TWO|LOC=West|ONE=[[Hougoumont]]|TWO=[[Lion's Mound]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|)|LOC|-|ONE|-|TWO|LOC=Centre|ONE=[[Waterloo Elm]]|TWO=[[La Haye Sainte]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|)|LOC|-|ONE|-|TWO|-|THR|-|FOU|LOC=East|ONE=[[Papelotte]]|TWO=[[La Haye, Lasne]]|THR=[[Smohain]]|FOU=[[Frischermont]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|`|LOC|-|ONE|-|TWO|-|THR|-|FOU|-|FIV|-|SIX|LOC=South|ONE=[[La Belle Alliance]]|TWO=[[Decoster's house]]|THR=[[Plancenoit ]]|FOU=[[Rossomme]] |FIV=[[Caillou Museum]] |SIX=[[Chantelet]] }} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!| |}} |
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{{chart|| | | | ||||||)|WP1|WP1=[[Waterloo Campaign: Waterloo to Paris (18–24 June)|Waterloo to Paris, 1st week]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|`|MAL|MAL=[[Malplaquet proclamation]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!| |}} |
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{{chart|| | | | ||||||)|WP2|WP2=[[Waterloo Campaign: Waterloo to Paris (25 June – 1 July)| Waterloo to Paris, 2nd week]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|)|ABD|-|PEA|ABD=[[Abdication of Napoleon (1815)]]|PEA=[[Waterloo Campaign: peace negotiations|Peace negotiations]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|`|ROC|ROC=[[Battle of Rocquencourt]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!| |}} |
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{{chart|| | | | ||||||)|WP3|WP3=[[Waterloo Campaign: Waterloo to Paris (2–7 July)|Waterloo to Paris, 3rd week]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|)|ISS|ISS=[[Battle of Issy]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|!|}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!|`|ABD|ABD=[[Convention of St. Cloud]]}} |
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{{chart|| | | | | | || ||!| |}} |
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{{chart|| | | | ||||||`|FOR|FOR=[[Reduction of the French fortresses in 1815|Reduction of the French fortresses]]}} |
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{{chart/end}} |
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{{chart bottom}} |
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I have not included in this list the articles to be found on [[Wikisource]] see: |
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*[[s:Final Act of the Congress of Vienna]] |
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*[[s:Portal:Hundred Days]] |
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*[[s:Portal:Waterloo Campaign]] |
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[[User:Uspzor|Uspzor]] as you can see from this diagram apart from the this article ([[Hundred Days]]) we have three detailed articles on the military conflict that year, how do you envisage that these articles ought to be rearranged. For example I am not sure how the events in the article [[Abdication of Napoleon (1815)]] falls neatly into either "the government of Napoleon as a whole" or "the Seventh Coalition about the war itself". I am most interested to hear your views as at the moment I think that some further development of this article is needed to homogenise the sections "5 Waterloo Campaign", "6 Napoleon abdicates", "7 Prussians enter Paris", and "8 Other campaigns and wars". -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 15:58, 31 August 2015 (UTC) |
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=="Participants of the War of the Seventh Coalition" map== |
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It seems to me that this map is wrong, at least about [[Louisiana_Purchase|Louisiana]]. Can anybody sort that out? |
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-- [[User:Falep|Falep]] ([[User talk:Falep|talk]]) 09:49, 14 January 2016 (UTC) |
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== Please explain why you think "on the morning" is better than "in the morning" on the talk page... == |
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[[:Hundred Days]] → {{no redirect|War of the Seventh Coalition}} – Consistency with the wars of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_First_Coalition First], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Second_Coalition Second], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Third_Coalition Third], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Fourth_Coalition Fourth], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Fifth_Coalition Fifth], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Sixth_Coalition Sixth] Coalitions, per [[WP:CRITERIA]]. [[User:Spekkios|Spekkios]] ([[User talk:Spekkios|talk]]) 03:14, 14 August 2022 (UTC) |
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In English, "''on the morning of...''" is the idiomatic way to specify the morning of a given date, such that the morning hours are, in a sense, part of the date. "''In the morning of''" might make better sense to a non-idiomatic English speaker, because the usual way to specify the morning hours is "in the morning." The same idiomatic construction applies to the afternoon, evening and night. You will not find "your way" in literature, scholarly works, or journalism written by an idiomatic English writer or speaker, no matter how much better it sounds to your ear. Which of these phrases sounds more correct to you?: |
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* '''Oppose'''. "Hundred Days" is by far the common name. [[User:Walrasiad|Walrasiad]] ([[User talk:Walrasiad|talk]]) 13:31, 14 August 2022 (UTC) |
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::::"....are to be married on the afternoon of 20 June..." |
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* '''Oppose''': [[Hundred Days]] gets [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/redirectviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&sort=views&direction=1&view=list&page=Hundred%20Days far more hits]. [[User:YorkshireExpat|YorkshireExpat]] ([[User talk:YorkshireExpat|talk]]) 15:43, 14 August 2022 (UTC) |
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::::"....are to be married in the afternoon of 20 June..." |
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* '''Comment''': On the matter of consistency, the current procedure of simply qualifying this when appropriate as the "War of the Seventh Coalition, also known as the Hundred Days (March – July 1815)" like is the case of the [[French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars]] page should be sufficient for that regard. "Hundred Days" is a clear case of [[WP:COMMONNAME]] within historiography to maintain it as the title. [[User:Sleath56|Sleath56]] ([[User talk:Sleath56|talk]]) 20:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC) |
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(Leaving out the preposition would avoid the controversy entirely.)--[[User:Quisqualis|Quisqualis]] ([[User talk:Quisqualis|talk]]) 03:40, 7 January 2017 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 13:13, 17 August 2022 (UTC) |
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::::@[[User:Quisqualis|Quisqualis]] [[WP:BRD|BRD]] means "Bold Revert, Discuss", not "Bold Revert, Make a statement, Revert". |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] --> |
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::::I would agree with you if that was the phrase that was in use, but this includes a subdivision with "early": One would say "early in the afternoon of 15 July"; "early in the evening of 15 July", I hear no difference with "early in the morning of 15 July" and I do not see a grammatical difference. -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 09:26, 7 January 2017 (UTC) |
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</div><div style="clear:both;"></div> |
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:::::@PBS: In diagramming the original sentence: |
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:::::::::"[Unable to remain in France or escape from it,] ''Napoleon surrendered himself'' [to Captain Frederick Maitland of HMS Bellerophon] [early] '''''on''''' [the morning of] '''''15 July''''', [and was :::::::::transported to England.]" |
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:::::the material ''in italics'' is the basic narrative of the sentence, "''Napoleon surrendered himself on 15 July''.". "Early" is not an essential part of the sentence, but "on" is important, in that designates the date. That is why "on" is called for here. |
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:::::The temptation to employ the expression "early ''in'' the morning ''on''" is understandable; while idiomatic, it is, however, less formal than the overall style of the article. I must assert, however, that "early ''in'' the morning ''of''" is not idiomatic English. Since the original phrasing, as I found it, contained "of 15 July", my preference is to retain "of" and change "in," to maintain idiomatic, somewhat formal English. |
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:::::It may be noted that I spent several hours reading, digesting and converting this French-tinged article to idiomatic, encyclopedic English in my various edits.--[[User:Quisqualis|Quisqualis]] ([[User talk:Quisqualis|talk]]) 01:02, 8 January 2017 (UTC) |
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::::::I think this must be a dialect problem, and I do not agree with removing "in", but have not opinion on the use of "on 15 July" or "of 15 July". |
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::::::Not French tinged but Victorian tinged (as the '''Attribution''' in the References section indicates -- per [[WP:PLAGIARISM]]). Also I presume from your edits that you are American, otherwise why concatenate "[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Hundred_Days&type=revision&diff=759062834&oldid=758719014 north east] France" (see [[MOS:COMPASS]])? |
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::::::-- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 10:35, 9 January 2017 (UTC) |
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== |
== Belligerents == |
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While writing the [[List of battles of the Hundred Days]], I noticed that many alleged belligerents in the infobox of this article aren't mentioned anywhere else as participating in combat, e.g. Sweden, Baden, Liechtenstein, Saxony. Looks like Russian, Danish, Portuguese, Spanish etc. troops never saw combat action, but were only kept in reserve, and had some occupation duties after other forces cleared Napoleonic forces, or arrived too late to take part. The precise situation is unknown, especially because most of these claims in the infobox and the main body are [[WP:UNSOURCED]]. I've done some improvements, but I ran into more problems in doing so. It is striking that many of the states who were allegedly belligerents according to the infobox are not mentioned as having mobilised according to the infobox at [[Military mobilisation during the Hundred Days]]: Baden, Bavaria, Denmark, Liechtenstein, Portugal, Saxony, Sicily, Spain, Sweden, Tuscany, Württemberg, not even Naples. We do know some of these saw action (Sicily, Tuscany, Württemberg, and Naples were active in the [[Neapolitan War]], for example), so this doesn't say everything yet. It could be that some troops were submerged in larger units under the command of an officer from some other state, e.g. Bavarian and Sardinian troops in an Austrian-dominated unit with an Austrian commander, so that doesn't mean these states did not participate. But we really need RS for [[WP:V]] on these claims. We can't just go around saying every little state in Europe *cough* Liechtenstein *cough* played a part in defeating Napoleon because they had like 20 soldiers in reserve that never marched towards the battlefield, let alone saw combat action. Cheers, [[User:Nederlandse Leeuw|Nederlandse Leeuw]] ([[User talk:Nederlandse Leeuw|talk]]) 13:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC) |
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== CN Spam == |
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:''Also see the section above this one ([[#Please explain why you think "on the morning" is better than "in the morning" on the talk page...]])'' |
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I replaced the fifteen <nowiki>{{cn|date=November 2022}} tags with a single {{More citations needed section|date=November 2022}} tag</nowiki>. Citation Needed spam makes any article hard to read, but having the tag at the end of nearly every line ''in a list'' is especially dreadful. Can we please not put them back unless we can get it down to less than half? Cheers, [[User:Last1in|Last1in]] ([[User talk:Last1in|talk]]) 00:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC) |
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Since my last edit there have been a number of edits some of them were reverts of my last revert edits, despite the fact that that there was not a consensus for them per [[WP:BRD]]. To help stabilise the situation I am going to list the reverts I am making and the reason for them: |
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*The [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Hundred_Days&type=revision&diff=764403872&oldid=760427349 diff] from which I am working. The removals are in red |
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#removed "accompanied by the municipal body{{red|,}}" — it is better as a clause because the sentence can be constructed without the clause "Count Chabrol addressed Louis XVIII in..." |
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#Cosmetic changes such as removing a space in "British involvement" — I will not comment on any other such changes. |
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#"with some 1,000 men{{red|,}} and landed at [[Golfe-Juan]]{{red|,}} between [[Cannes]] and [[Antibes]]{{red|,}} on 1 March 1815" — an Oxford comma is not needed before the and as there is no other "and" in the sentence there is no need to distinguish sub-clauses. The other commas are not needed, but in this case I will leave the in place as they do no harm, but in other places where I think they are unhelpfulbI will revert them without further comment. If another party disagrees with the revert then please discuss them further on this talk page before reverting reverts. |
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#{{red|<nowiki>''</nowiki>}}"If any of you will shoot his Emperor, here I am."{{red|<nowiki>''</nowiki>}} The added double single quotes turns the quote in to italics. This is contrary to the MOSS see [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Italics and quotations]] so I am removing all such changes. |
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#{{red|"}}ought to be brought to Paris in an iron cage{{red|"}} the source does not have it as a quote and it may well be paraphrasing (particularly as the original was in French) — so I am removing the quotes and they should not be put back without a inline citation to back them up. |
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#Lanjuinais —I have left the initial full name uncovered by an intermediate edit, but have made an alteration to the text (not a revert) to remove the second link to a mention of the man (per [[MOS:DUPLINK]). |
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#south west —I have put back the hyphen (south-west) for all such compass points see[MOS:COMPASS]] |
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#I have reverted the change "At the Congress of Vienna, the [[Concert of Europe|Great Powers of Europe]]" to "At the Congress of Vienna, the Great Powers of Europe (Austria, Great Britain, Prussia and Russia)" because the [[Concert of Europe]] is a post Napoleonic era term and linking to it is unhelpful: see [[Quadruple Alliance (1815)]] and the [[Holy Alliance]], as well as the [[Concert of Europe]] to see why. |
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#I have removed the addition of "''[[francs-tireurs]]'' {{red|(civilian snipers)}} because ''francs-tireurs'' as the article says at this time: "During the wars of the French Revolution, a franc-tireur was a member of a corps of light infantry organized separately from the regular army." Light infantry are not "civilian snipers", their closet equivalent in the British army were the Rifle regiments such as the [[95th Foot]], in this case they would probably be closer to the [[Levée en masse]] of the early revolutionary wars. This is a highly controversial issue, because of the attitude of the Prussians towards guerilla warfare verged on fanatical hatred and it lasted in successor German armies up until the the destruction of the ''Wehrmacht'' at the end of Second World War (see [[Martens Clause]]). |
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#reverted "small-scale combat" to "in detail" — "in detail" is a term of art and is not the same as "small-scale combat" for example the [[Battle of Ligny]] was not "small-scale combat". I have linked it to the article [[Defeat in detail]] |
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#reverted "drove for the Prussian outposts" to "drove in the Prussian outposts" it is a different meaning of drove this meanin is "smashed in" not the "driving" of animals attached to carts (or the driving of motorcars). |
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#reverted "placing their forces at [[Mont-Saint-Jean, Belgium|Mont-Saint-Jean]]," to "and secured Napoleon's favoured "central position". This shows a total misunderstanding of the campaign. Mont-Saint-Jean was not the central position it was close to the centre of Wellington's cantonments (his headquarters were in Brussels). Napoleon did not get there until the 18th of June he was driving the wedge as the paragraph starts by saying on the 15th of June. |
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#revert "who had died shortly" to " to "where she had died shortly" the significance is to the place ''where'' she died. |
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#revert "addressed the king" to "addressed the King" see [[MOS:JOBTITLES]] bullet point 2. |
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#revert "which were known to harbour many royalists" to "which were known to contain many royalists" for the reasons given both in the previous section and in [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 574#Can Admins make changes to an article that don't show on the History?|this tea house archive]]. |
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-- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 17:11, 19 February 2017 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 09:32, 8 March 2024
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on February 26, 2006, February 26, 2007, March 20, 2009, March 20, 2010, February 26, 2011, March 20, 2012, March 20, 2014, March 20, 2017, and March 20, 2022. |
On 14 August 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to War of the Seventh Coalition. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
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"Inconstant" carried 1,000 men?
[edit]Under the heading "Return to France", the second sentence states "On 26 February 1815, when the British and French guard ships were absent, he slipped away from Portoferraio on board the French brig Inconstant with some 1,000 men and landed at Golfe-Juan..." (emphasis added). This is confusingly written, as it suggests that there were "some 1,000 men" aboard the "Inconstant" with Napoleon; an impossibility. That ship was a mere 96 feet long, and normally carried no more than 160 men. There would be no space aboard such a small ship to fit 1,000 men, and their weight would have sunk her! Perhaps the bulk of the men were borne by other craft that accompanied the "Inconstant". Can someone more knowledgeable about this particular incident rewrite this to clarify? Bricology (talk) 20:52, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
- I've added some details of Napoleon's fleet. Tevildo (talk) 06:43, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
"Kingdom of France" versus "France"
[edit]I'm not exactly clear on why the troops of the deposed Napoleon escaping from Elba count in the belligerents list as representing "France" while the actual government of France after Napoleon was deposed is relegated to being the "Kingdom of France". Shouldn't the belligerents on Napoleon's side be identified as "Bonapartists" at this point rather than as if they were "France"? Zachary Klaas (talk) 14:58, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
Requested move 14 August 2022
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 04:12, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Hundred Days → War of the Seventh Coalition – Consistency with the wars of the First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Coalitions, per WP:CRITERIA. Spekkios (talk) 03:14, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. "Hundred Days" is by far the common name. Walrasiad (talk) 13:31, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose: Hundred Days gets far more hits. YorkshireExpat (talk) 15:43, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: On the matter of consistency, the current procedure of simply qualifying this when appropriate as the "War of the Seventh Coalition, also known as the Hundred Days (March – July 1815)" like is the case of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars page should be sufficient for that regard. "Hundred Days" is a clear case of WP:COMMONNAME within historiography to maintain it as the title. Sleath56 (talk) 20:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:13, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Belligerents
[edit]While writing the List of battles of the Hundred Days, I noticed that many alleged belligerents in the infobox of this article aren't mentioned anywhere else as participating in combat, e.g. Sweden, Baden, Liechtenstein, Saxony. Looks like Russian, Danish, Portuguese, Spanish etc. troops never saw combat action, but were only kept in reserve, and had some occupation duties after other forces cleared Napoleonic forces, or arrived too late to take part. The precise situation is unknown, especially because most of these claims in the infobox and the main body are WP:UNSOURCED. I've done some improvements, but I ran into more problems in doing so. It is striking that many of the states who were allegedly belligerents according to the infobox are not mentioned as having mobilised according to the infobox at Military mobilisation during the Hundred Days: Baden, Bavaria, Denmark, Liechtenstein, Portugal, Saxony, Sicily, Spain, Sweden, Tuscany, Württemberg, not even Naples. We do know some of these saw action (Sicily, Tuscany, Württemberg, and Naples were active in the Neapolitan War, for example), so this doesn't say everything yet. It could be that some troops were submerged in larger units under the command of an officer from some other state, e.g. Bavarian and Sardinian troops in an Austrian-dominated unit with an Austrian commander, so that doesn't mean these states did not participate. But we really need RS for WP:V on these claims. We can't just go around saying every little state in Europe *cough* Liechtenstein *cough* played a part in defeating Napoleon because they had like 20 soldiers in reserve that never marched towards the battlefield, let alone saw combat action. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
CN Spam
[edit]I replaced the fifteen {{cn|date=November 2022}} tags with a single {{More citations needed section|date=November 2022}} tag. Citation Needed spam makes any article hard to read, but having the tag at the end of nearly every line in a list is especially dreadful. Can we please not put them back unless we can get it down to less than half? Cheers, Last1in (talk) 00:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
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