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{{DISPLAYTITLE:Talk:''Neighbours''}}
{{DISPLAYTITLE:Talk:''Neighbours''}}
{{Talk header}}
{{Talk header}}
{{Vital article|topic=Society|level=5|class=GA}}
{{Australian English|date=September 2010}}
{{Australian English|date=September 2010}}
{{Article history
{{ArticleHistory
| action1 = GAN
| action1 = GAN
| action1date = 01:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
| action1date = 01:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
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| currentstatus = GA
| currentstatus = GA
| topic = television
| topic = television
|otd1date=2010-03-18|otd1oldid=350564705
|otd2date=2013-03-18|otd2oldid=544910126
|otd3date=2015-03-18|otd3oldid=651758296
|otd4date=2017-03-18|otd4oldid=770903347
|otd5date=2022-03-18|otd5oldid=1077818960
|otd6date=2023-03-18|otd6oldid=1145325682
}}
}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=GA|vital=yes|1=
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{{WikiProject Australia |class=GA |importance=high |Melbourne=yes |Melbourne-importance=Top |television=yes |tv-importance=mid}}
{{WikiProject Australia|importance=high |Melbourne=yes |Melbourne-importance=Top |television=yes |tv-importance=mid}}
{{WikiProject Soap Operas| class=GA}}
{{WikiProject Soap Operas}}
{{WikiProject Television|class=GA|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Television|importance=Mid}}
{{WPKylie|class=GA|importance=mid}}
{{WikiProject Kylie Minogue|importance=mid}}
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{{OnThisDay|date1=2010-03-18|oldid1=350564705|date2=2013-03-18|oldid2=544910126|date3=2015-03-18|oldid3=651758296|date4=2017-03-18|oldid4=770903347|date5=2022-03-18|oldid5=1077818960}}


{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn |target=/Archive index |mask=/Archive <#> |leading_zeros=0 |indexhere=yes}}
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== [[MOS:DATETOPRES]] ==
== Including British Channels on Neighbours ==


Per this policy, {{!xt|2023–present}} is false, as 2023 is the present. And stating "no other soap does this" is false, and it also continues to set a negative presedence on soap articles that they do not follow MOS policies, which they ''should''. MOS is a must follow. This has also been established at several other articles within the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Soap Operas]] and ignoring the MOS is violating Wikipedia's policies. {{!xt|2023–present}} infers we are not in 2023, when in fact, we are. Many like to [[Wikipedia:IGNORE|ignore the MOS]], when it '''must''' be followed. Needing to discuss whether to follow MOS, which '''must''' be followed, seems futile, and would also classify as a [[WP:LOCALCONSENSUS]], which soap groups, or ''Neighbours''-related articles cannot senselessly do, especially in order to avoid adhering to an established MOS policy. If one so chooses, {{xt|since 2023}} would be more appropriate, as it establishes an on-going establishment of time. '''<span style="font-size:95%;">[[User:livelikemusic|<span style="color:#2980b9">livelikemusic</span>]]</span>''' <span style="font-size:95%;">([[User talk:livelikemusic|<span style="color:#8e44ad">TALK!</span>]])</span> 01:16, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
I am trying to improve the Neighbours page by adding the British channels that aired the Australian soap opera because Neighbours didn't just air in Australia, it also aired in the United Kingdom as well, and even throughout the entire run and towards the end it was made for just UK audiences, that's why I included the correct date on when the soap finished which was 29 July 2022. I understand that it ended on 28 July in Australia but I kindly ask if my edit on list of British channels that aired Neighbours can be approved because like I said, it didn't just air in Australia, it aired in the UK as well and Grundy funded the show for the BBC and Channel 5 funded it as well, thank you.
:We need to be clear on what DATETOPRES actually says. It does ''not'' forbid using –present for date ranges; it quotes [[WP:DATED]] to say this should "usually be avoided". DATED is discussing prose writing, whereas DATETOPRES also considers tables and infoboxes, which is where this range is being used in Neighbours articles. DATETOPRES also makes no distinction for ongoing circumstances that begin in the current year, so please stop claiming it does. It does, however, give us the clear alternative of "Since 2023" (or any other year), which I don't have any objection to. I would be happy to switch to that in infoboxes, although probably not at [[List of Neighbours characters]]. [[User:U-Mos|U-Mos]] ([[User talk:U-Mos|talk]]) 08:38, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
[[Special:Contributions/82.19.124.151|82.19.124.151]] ([[User talk:82.19.124.151#top|talk]]) 22:56, 12 November 2022 (UTC) [[Special:Contributions/82.19.124.151|82.19.124.151]] ([[User talk:82.19.124.151|talk]]) 22:56, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
⚫
:::Thank you, [[User:U-Mos]]. I was about to comment this myself. - [[User:Therealscorp1an|Therealscorp1an]] ([[User talk:Therealscorp1an|talk]]) 10:41, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:I understand where you are coming from, but the infobox airdates are meant for the original airdates only (18 March 1985 – 28 July 2022). I understand that ''Neighbours'' was a huge show in the United Kingdom, however making the accusation that the finale was made primarily for British audiences in [[WP:OR]]. If we were to add the British airdates in the infobox, then all the other airdates in different countries should be added as well. That's Ireland, New Zealand, Belgium and even the United States for a while, but this would clutter the already long infobox. I hope you understand. - [[User:Therealscorp1an|Therealscorp1an]] ([[User talk:Therealscorp1an|talk]]) 23:37, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
:The Infobox Television template is very clearly documented. For the 'network' parameter, it says "The original network(s) on which the show has appeared. '''Do not add foreign broadcasters here'''. Use links if articles are available." (Emphasis mine.)
:Similarly, the 'last_aired' parameter, it says "The first air date of the show's last episode '''on its original network'''." (Again, emphasis mine.)
:This is why your edits to the infobox are being reverted; there's nothing you can say that will change the fact that the edits you want to make are not supported by the template guidelines.
:I don't think anyone is disputing that the UK is an important market for the show. But that's covered elsewhere in the article. The last paragraph of the lead mentions the popularity of the show in the UK, and in the Broadcast section, the UK is the only international market to have a subsection of its own.
:In summary, the infobox is a summary of information filled out per the template guidelines, and the rest of the article has the detail and nuance. I don't think there's any mistaking that the UK was an important market for the show. [[User:H. Carver|H. Carver]] ([[User talk:H. Carver|talk]]) 01:46, 13 November 2022 (UTC)


== Network vs Channel ==
Well actually Grundy and Fremantle, the two production companies who made Neighbours have always said that the UK, has always been it's main broadcast partner, so it makes sense that the UK networks BBC One and Channel 5 should be on the list of networks which broadcast, so can you please think about it and let me revert your edit, thanks. [[Special:Contributions/82.19.124.151|82.19.124.151]] ([[User talk:82.19.124.151#top|talk]]) 00:32, 13 November 2022 (UTC) [[Special:Contributions/82.19.124.151|82.19.124.151]] ([[User talk:82.19.124.151|talk]]) 00:32, 13 November 2022 (UTC)


Under 'Original release', Networks are noted as Seven Network, Network 10, 10 Peach and Amazon Freevee. Both the wholesale network swap of 1986 and the switch to 10 Peach in 2011 are covered within the article. However I feel that it's erroneous to refer to 10 Peach in this section, as it's not a Network in and of itself, it's just one of several Network 10 digital multichannels. I would argue that this section need only reference Network 10 once for the period January 20, 1986 to July 28, 2022, and that the standalone reference to 10 Peach airdates be removed. Is this too granular or semantics? I've never proposed a change or posed a question like this before, so not sure if this is an appropriate level of detail. [[User:Tinascousin|Tinascousin]] ([[User talk:Tinascousin|talk]]) 04:50, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
== Back on Network 10? ==
:You're absolutely right, according to [[Template:Infobox television]] (which uses [[Fox Broadcasting Company]] as an exemplar). I'll make the change. [[User:U-Mos|U-Mos]] ([[User talk:U-Mos|talk]]) 09:59, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

AUS viewers may be able to help with this. We know that the show is returning for first broadcast on "Network 10" in Australia, per the announcement video. Is this confirmation that it has been promoted back to the main channel? Or can "Network 10" refer to the network as a whole, meaning it might well still be on 10 Peach? [[User:U-Mos|U-Mos]] ([[User talk:U-Mos|talk]]) 13:26, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

:It means that from now on, Neighbours will be shown on the main channel instead of 10 Peach [[Special:Contributions/82.19.124.151|82.19.124.151]] ([[User talk:82.19.124.151#top|talk]]) 19:29, 17 November 2022 (UTC) [[Special:Contributions/82.19.124.151|82.19.124.151]] ([[User talk:82.19.124.151|talk]]) 19:29, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

::{{ping|U-Mos}} I assumed that it meant Network 10 as a whole. 10 Peach is owned by them and has been the channel episodes have been broadcast on for the past 11 or so years, so I am assuming that it still means 10 Peach, but with limited information at the moment, I could be wrong. - [[User:Therealscorp1an|Therealscorp1an]] ([[User talk:Therealscorp1an|talk]]) 21:05, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

:::10's social media channels (both main channel and 10 Peach) have posted a video, but with the Network 10 branding, which could indicate main channel. Is it worth leaving off the infobox for the time being? [[User:U-Mos|U-Mos]] ([[User talk:U-Mos|talk]]) 21:28, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

::::I don't mind if we keep it as it is or we just also update the 10 Peach bracket, so both have open dashes, until we get more information. Also, I am assuming that we do not add Amazon Prime or Freevee to the infobox as it will not the original broadcaster? - [[User:Therealscorp1an|Therealscorp1an]] ([[User talk:Therealscorp1an|talk]]) 21:33, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Actually, I think we should. This is a co-production deal, which makes Freevee (not Prime though) an original network for the show's return. They have commissioned the show with Network 10. [[User:U-Mos|U-Mos]] ([[User talk:U-Mos|talk]]) 21:38, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
:If anything, on the little information we have we're assuming that 10 is still commissioning the show with Amazon, but given they're showing it first in Australia that seems likely enough to keep as listed. [[User:U-Mos|U-Mos]] ([[User talk:U-Mos|talk]]) 21:49, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

:Should it even be in the infobox as '2022-' for Network 10? I don't see how that works with sources saying that production won't even start until 2023. Feels like it should either be '2023-', or not entered until broadcasting of new episodes starts again. [[User:H. Carver|H. Carver]] ([[User talk:H. Carver|talk]]) 22:44, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
::A bit annoying, but 2022 because the finale was on Network 10 in July. [[User:U-Mos|U-Mos]] ([[User talk:U-Mos|talk]]) 22:54, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
:::Ah, I understand now. Feels like this is something that could be made clearer in the article; there's one mention I can see of the finale being on Network 10 (outside of the lead), but it's not entirely clear this was the first broadcast rather than a repeat or showing addition to 10 Peach. Are there reliable Australian media references that can support this?
:::Also - just throwing this out there - as 2022 was a finale, arguably the infobox could more accurately reflect the broadcast history by reading '2022, 2023-' or '2022 (finale), 2023-'. [[User:H. Carver|H. Carver]] ([[User talk:H. Carver|talk]]) 23:40, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

== List of countries where Neighbours was shown ==

In the article here and other pages elsewhere on the internet it's mentioned that Neighbours was shown in more than 60 countries. I've tried to find a list of all countries or to compile such list myself, but I had no luck. The countries I was able to verify are listed in the German language article. Maybe someone can add more countries? -- [[User:MenschHeidt|MenschHeidt]] ([[User talk:MenschHeidt|talk]]) 11:22, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
⚫
:The countries I am aware of is Australia, the UK, Ireland, New Zealand, the US, Canada and Belgium. Are there any more? - [[User:Therealscorp1an|Therealscorp1an]] ([[User talk:Therealscorp1an|talk]]) 23:51, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

== Mackenzie article ==

Hello Neighbours fans, I'm continually ashamed at the lack of a page for arguably the show's most important character in the last few years, so I've started a draft at [[Draft:Mackenzie Hargreaves]]. Mostly information culled from elsewhere currently, with a skeleton for structure and a few bare links to incorporate. Feel free to jump in and contribute! [[User:U-Mos|U-Mos]] ([[User talk:U-Mos|talk]]) 14:58, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:Article is now [[Mackenzie Hargreaves|in the mainspace]]. [[User:U-Mos|U-Mos]] ([[User talk:U-Mos|talk]]) 16:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 07:02, 17 March 2024

Good articleNeighbours has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 30, 2009Good article nomineeListed
On this day...Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 18, 2010, March 18, 2013, March 18, 2015, March 18, 2017, March 18, 2022, and March 18, 2023.


MOS:DATETOPRES

[edit]

Per this policy, 2023–present is false, as 2023 is the present. And stating "no other soap does this" is false, and it also continues to set a negative presedence on soap articles that they do not follow MOS policies, which they should. MOS is a must follow. This has also been established at several other articles within the Wikipedia:WikiProject Soap Operas and ignoring the MOS is violating Wikipedia's policies. 2023–present infers we are not in 2023, when in fact, we are. Many like to ignore the MOS, when it must be followed. Needing to discuss whether to follow MOS, which must be followed, seems futile, and would also classify as a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS, which soap groups, or Neighbours-related articles cannot senselessly do, especially in order to avoid adhering to an established MOS policy. If one so chooses, since 2023 would be more appropriate, as it establishes an on-going establishment of time. livelikemusic (TALK!) 01:16, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We need to be clear on what DATETOPRES actually says. It does not forbid using –present for date ranges; it quotes WP:DATED to say this should "usually be avoided". DATED is discussing prose writing, whereas DATETOPRES also considers tables and infoboxes, which is where this range is being used in Neighbours articles. DATETOPRES also makes no distinction for ongoing circumstances that begin in the current year, so please stop claiming it does. It does, however, give us the clear alternative of "Since 2023" (or any other year), which I don't have any objection to. I would be happy to switch to that in infoboxes, although probably not at List of Neighbours characters. U-Mos (talk) 08:38, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, User:U-Mos. I was about to comment this myself. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 10:41, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Network vs Channel

[edit]

Under 'Original release', Networks are noted as Seven Network, Network 10, 10 Peach and Amazon Freevee. Both the wholesale network swap of 1986 and the switch to 10 Peach in 2011 are covered within the article. However I feel that it's erroneous to refer to 10 Peach in this section, as it's not a Network in and of itself, it's just one of several Network 10 digital multichannels. I would argue that this section need only reference Network 10 once for the period January 20, 1986 to July 28, 2022, and that the standalone reference to 10 Peach airdates be removed. Is this too granular or semantics? I've never proposed a change or posed a question like this before, so not sure if this is an appropriate level of detail. Tinascousin (talk) 04:50, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're absolutely right, according to Template:Infobox television (which uses Fox Broadcasting Company as an exemplar). I'll make the change. U-Mos (talk) 09:59, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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