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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 15 dates. [show]

March 24, 2005, April 5, 2007, March 20, 2008, April 24, 2008, April 9, 2009, April 16, 2009, April 1, 2010, April 21, 2011, April 5, 2012, March 28, 2013, May 2, 2013, April 17, 2014, April 2, 2015, April 9, 2015, and April 28, 2016

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On 5 April 2009, it was proposed that this article be moved from Maundy Thursday to Holy Thursday. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Archives

Split (?)

In 2005 there was apparently a page named "Chrism Mass" which became a redirect to "Chrism". I switched the redirect to here as (1) the mass is about more than just chrism, and (2) this is traditionally the day on which it is held. I have subsequently expanded the section regarding the Chrism Mass and should not wish it to appear to "overwhelm" the rest of the article. As the originally titled page remains a redirect, I cannot make the herein proposed change, (as I apparently screwed that up the last time I tried something similar). On the otherhand, if the consensus is that the material should remain here, then nevermind. (I thought about listing this under Requested Moves, but as this concerns a section only, wasn't sure if that applied.) Mannanan51 (talk) 00:31, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be split. It's a very distinct liturgy which is separate from the celebration of Maundy Thursday. Hymnodist.2004 (talk) 04:29, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Article Title

I question the wisdom of titling the article using a name that not only is more-or-less only used in the UK but also contains a hapax legomenon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.121.6.113 (talk) 15:50, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You're not the first, but it's been discussed before (see the earlier discussion section on "Article Name") and was settled in a previous RfC. (Also, it's not exactly a hapax legomenon, as I understand the term. More of a fossil word.) Nitpicking polish (talk) 16:06, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Even if there has been a discussion before, it can be discussed again. I for one believe the article should be moved to "Holy Thursday", which seems to be definitely more used throughout the English-speaking world than Maundy Thursday. Would anyone have a solid reason to oppose moving the article, while keeping both names in the lead? Dan Palraz (talk) 16:15, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am Catholic evangelical Christian and I was raised in Catholic schools, in Ohio USA and we Always called it Maundy Thursday, in the morning at morning Mass w washing of the feet, the priest and nuns called it Holy Thursday, but the Evening Mass,the priests and everyone called it Maundy Thursday! Then I in turn raised my daughters in an evangelical Lutheran church and we always call it Maundy Thursday! Same with my 87 year old dad who goes to a Missouri synod Church, they also say Maundy Thursday! So please just keep the name!

Matter of fact, under the Google trending articles today, it has Maundy Thursday, down not Holy Thursday and the first article was Wikipedia! Thank you! Just my opinion! But I had read that someone thought only in UK it is said Maundy Thursday there only!? Which nope, is not true! Blessings to all! SandcastleLyndy (talk) 17:57, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chrism Mass

If the term "Maundy Thursday" is retained for this article, then the Chrism Mass should be moved. The Chrism Mass was traditionally celebrated on this day, but the reason has nothing to do with "Maundy". --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 19:45, 7 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of what the day is called, the Chrism Mass is still celebrated by a number of churches on this day, and remains an important part of the Holy Week observances. As far as its having "nothing to do with "Maundy", it specifically memorializes what some denominations regard as the founding of the priesthood at the Last Supper on "Maundy" Thursday. Much of the substance was moved two years ago when the Chrism Mass page was re-created (see above). The material here could stand some trimming back now, but some discussion should be retained. -Happy Maundy Thursday. Mannanan51 (talk) 16:14, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the Catholic Church in England and Wales, the Chrism Mass is normally celebrated on the Wednesday before Maundy Thursday. Maundy Thursday is reserved for the Mass of the Lord's Supper. In checking this it is on the wednesday in Liverpool (https://liverpoolmetrocathedral.org.uk/events/event/chrism-mass/), Southwark (https://www.stgeorgescathedral.org.uk/whats-on/chrism-mass-2024/?d=638471394000000000) Birmingham (https://www.stchadscathedral.org.uk/events/mass-of-chrism-3/) Nottingham and others. In 2024 Westminster has it on Tuesday 26th March.

The Chrism mass is NOT the Mass of The Lords Supper. It is a separate Mass usually at a Cathedral, during which three containers of Oil (usually Olive, and I can remember going to Makro one year to get it for my cathedral) are consecrated as "holy chrism," (confirmation, ordination, coronation)" "the oil of catechumens," (baptism) and "the oil of the sick." (self explanatory) 82.38.212.33 (talk) 13:10, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Possible dates of Maundy Thursday

The text of the article says Maundy Thursday will "always" fall between 19th March and 22nd April, but the list of forthcoming dates shows that it will fall on 2nd May this year (2024). Maybe I have misunderstood something and this isn't a contradiction, but even so, it could do with some clarification. Hephae3tion (talk) 08:36, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This time indication only referred to the Western counting system, 2nd May is the date of the Eastern one. This year's date is 28 March in the Western church.--Medusahead (talk) 09:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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+{{Old move |date=5 April 2009 |from=Maundy Thursday |destination=Holy Thursday |result=not moved |link=Talk:Maundy Thursday/Archive 1#Requested move}}
-<!-- From Template:Oldafdfull -->{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="text-align:center;"
-|-
-| width="48px" | [[File:Evolution-tasks2.png|50px|Articles for deletion]]
-|| A large discussion, on 2009-04-05, was held on whether this article should be named ''Maundy Thursday'' or ''Holy Thursday''. The result of [[Talk:Maundy Thursday/Archive 1#Requested_move|the discussion]] was that the article will {{{result|'''retain'''}}} the title  ''Maundy Thursday''.
-|}
 {{archivebox|
 * [[/Archive 1|2005–2010]]
-* [[/Archive 2|2011]]
+* [[/Archive 2|2011–2016]]
 }}
-==Section on name==
-The section on the origins of the name are extremely interesting. I had always assumed that the name came from the Latin "mandatum", but I did not know about the other theories. Perhaps some of the information here could go in [[Wikipedia: Main Page]]
-as a "Did you know". [[User:ACEOREVIVED|ACEOREVIVED]] ([[User talk:ACEOREVIVED|talk]]) 00:50, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
-Or at least, it could go in when it is Maundy Thursday this year! [[User:ACEOREVIVED|ACEOREVIVED]] ([[User talk:ACEOREVIVED|talk]]) 11:39, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
-== Disambiguation ==
-I've [[WP:BB|been bold]] and made [[Holy Thursday]] a dab page. The name "Holy Thursday" appears to be truly ambiguous; it refers either to [[Maundy Thursday]] or [[Ascension Day]], so a disambiguation page is appropriate. I've added the dab page to the categories appropriate to both the pages to which it points. [[User:Tonywalton|Tonywalton]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Tonywalton|Talk]]</sup> 23:04, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
-:A disambiguation page is only appropriate for two topics that have an ambiguous topic if one of them is not the primary topic. I don't think there was any reason to delete the redirect history if you thought a disambiguation page would be better there, and I restored the redirect since I didn't see any discussion at [[Talk:Holy Thursday]]. In this case, Maundy Thursday seems like a plausible primary topic for "Holy Thursday", and the Feast of the Ascension is dabbed from a hatnote (per [[WP:TWODABS]]). -- [[User:JHunterJ|JHunterJ]] ([[User talk:JHunterJ|talk]]) 13:19, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
-== What is the history of observations of Maundy Thursday? ==
-The article lacks information regarding the history of observations.  Some questions to get started: When is the first recorded observation (after, of course, the original)?  What form did these observations take? -- [[User:Ke4roh|ke4roh]] ([[User talk:Ke4roh|talk]]) 18:17, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
-== citations for footwashing during Maundy Thursday ==
-There is a conspicuous lack of citations in the section on footwashing on Maundy Thursday. While this is understandable since there is a separate article on the practice footwashing, there should be citations here specifically for groups implementing this practice on Maundy Thursday in particular. I wonder (without sufficient knowledge), if this is true for groups with a strong tradition of footwashing, but perhaps without strong tradition of Maundy Thursday recognition at all, eg. [[Schwarzenau Brethren]]?
-[[User:Sondra.kinsey|Sondra.kinsey]] ([[User talk:Sondra.kinsey|talk]]) 04:39, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
-== Jesus had The Last Supper on Thursday 14 Nisan 3790 HC / April 6, 30 AD / 6.4.783 AUC ==
-Jesus had his [[Last Supper]] on Thursday 14 Nisan 3790 HC / April 6, 30 AD / 6.4.783 AUC: the night before the first night of [[Passover]]. [[Special:Contributions/2601:589:4705:C7C0:445B:F831:9E37:DBE7|2601:589:4705:C7C0:445B:F831:9E37:DBE7]] ([[User talk:2601:589:4705:C7C0:445B:F831:9E37:DBE7|talk]]) 20:46, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
-:What is your source for this statement? Without a source we can't include it in the article. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 02:12, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
-== Inappropriate influence of the Anglican Church over Wikipedia policy ==
-Why is this article titled "Maundy Thursday" despite the fact that that name is in common use by only two denominations? That seems inappropriate. The article itself states that the name is not widely used outside of England. Given that this is the 21st century and not the 17th a name for the holiday only commonly used in England would not seem to me to be a particularly important name for the day.
-*Oh settle down--the Anglican Illuminati haven't taken over the joint. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 02:06, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
-@Drmies (and the unsigned instigator), the "Illuminati" might not be the flaring firecrackers that people like the person you are responding to seems to think they are regarded as, at least in Canada. According to the Wikipedia article on Anglicans, "The Anglican Church of Canada (ACC or ACoC) is the Province of the Anglican Communion in Canada.[...] In 2007, the Anglican Church counted 545,957 members on parish rolls in 2,192 congregations organised into approximately 1300 parishes. The 2011 Canadian Census counted 1,631,845 self-identified Anglicans (5 percent of the total Canadian population), making the Anglican Church the third largest Canadian church after the Roman Catholic Church and the United Church of Canada. The Queen of Canada's Canadian Royal Style continues to include the Style Defender of the Faith (French: Défenseur de la Foi), and the Canadian Monarch continues her countenance of two Chapels Royal in the Realm." - - - - -  Note well that 5% of the entire Canadian population, many of whom are neither Christian nor theists, is quite a big chunk of those who would even be discussing this in the first place. My point? The name "Maunday Thursday" is used by a significant number of Canadian Christians, although it is true that this causes no changes in the train schedules. (By contrast, some largely Roman Catholic countries in Europe change the train schedules for the observance of Corpus Christi. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Christi_(feast) ... this does not happen in Canada. This is a serious question to clear up if Wikipedia is purporting to be serious. Basically, one in twenty Canadians were Anglicans in 2011, undoubtedly less now, because of massive immigration of non-Anglicans under all parties alike, which is another topic, but my point is that "Maundy Thursday" is still used by a non-insignificant percentage of Canadians, which I posit in opposition to the absurd claims being made by those who want to delete this article. (Not expecting a long reply, just saying.)[[User:77Mike77|77Mike77]] ([[User talk:77Mike77|talk]]) 01:30, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
-:I'm pretty sure the IP editor was arguing for a change of name to Holy Thursday, rather than deleting the article.  Of course, he's right, as there has never been a good reason to keep the term that is less commonly used, less general, and less useful to Wikipedia readers.[[User:LedRush|LedRush]] ([[User talk:LedRush|talk]]) 15:12, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
-Where do you live? "Holy Thursday" must be a local expression there. "Maunday Thursday" is known by Anglicans everywhere. It would be a non-Anglican who would look up "Maunday Thursday", so to not have it as the title makes no sense.[[User:77Mike77|77Mike77]] ([[User talk:77Mike77|talk]]) 02:41, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
-::<s>Well, we only have about 2,000 Anglicans in the US, and there's only about 115k in North America, so, yeah, virtually no one uses that term in this hemisphere.</s>  While we're at it, the number of English speakers worldwide who use the term is dwarfed by the number of people who use "Holy Thursday", so I don't really care what term Anglicans use other than how it contributes to the total number of people  who use the term and how that compares to the number of people who use "Holy Thursday".[[User:LedRush|LedRush]] ([[User talk:LedRush|talk]]) 12:31, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
-::::?? According to the infobox, there are: "3 million total adherents (2015 estimate),[1] 1,504,273 communicant members and 1,956,042 baptized members (2014)[2]" of the  US Episcopalian Church. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 13:10, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
-:::::My bad, I was looking at the numbers on WP for the Anglican Church.  Everything else I said holds up fine, though.[[User:LedRush|LedRush]] ([[User talk:LedRush|talk]]) 16:35, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
-:In the Catholic Church, it is known as "Holy Thursday". I agree with the IP, the current name is too Anglo-centric. [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 09:50, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
-::In the Catholic Church in England, & no doubt some other Anglophone countries, it is normally called Maundy Thursday. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 13:12, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
-:::Like I said, too Anglo-centric (both the state and the state religion). In Ireland - a largely English-speaking country, only the Church of Ireland, a minority denomination, uses the term MS. [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 14:07, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
-:If any of you feel that 2009 is long enough ago to see if there is now a consensus on changing the title of this article, then raise an RFC with some well-reasoned cogent arguments. Most of the arguments on both sides of the various discussions have been opinion or "I don't like it" or based on their personal experience through their denominational allegiences. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:11, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
-::The same was true of the 2009 decision. Yes - time to revisit this. [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 11:44, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
-:::A broad consensus among the Wikipedia community was formed to retain the current title of the article, Maundy Thursday ([[Talk:Maundy_Thursday/Archive_1#Requested_move|see here]]). The term Maundy Thursday is widespread and is found in all branches of Christianity, including Catholicism, Anglicanism, Protestantism and Orthodoxy (though some parts of these branches may use a multitude of other less common names for Thursday in Holy Week, in addition to Maundy Thursday). In the Catholic Church, [https://www.ordinariate.org.uk/cmsAdmin/uploads/holy-week-and-easter-with-the-ordinariate-in-london_001.pdf personal ordinariates] use the term Maundy Thursday and so does the [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10068a.htm ''Catholic Encyclopedia'']. The Church of England, mother Church of the Anglican Communion, chiefly uses the word Maundy Thursday for this observance ([https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/principal-services/holy-communion/seasonal/maundy.aspx see link]). The Presbyterian Churches, a Protestant denomination also use the term Maundy Thursday ([https://books.google.com/books?id=XFuxHoWQKsEC&pg=PA75&dq=Maundy+Thursday+Presbyterian&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5M94T9CrNqT20gG8u5GtDQ&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false see link]). Even in the Western Orthodox Churches, the term Maundy Thursday refers to Thursday in Holy Week ([http://www.stgregoryoc.org/article/article-archive/the-ceremonies-of-holy-week/ see link]). In addition to Churches, countries that observe Maundy Thursday as a holiday officially refer to the day as such - see [http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/50/section/19#section-19-6 United Kingdom legislation] (a predominantly Protestant country) and [http://www.gov.ph/2007/07/24/republic-act-no-9492/ Philippines legislation] (a predominantly Catholic country). The term Holy Thursday is ambiguious because in some denominations, as [[User:Angr]] pointed out, the term Holy Thursday refers to Ascension Thursday. The consensus, as well as these facts, should be respected as it was carefully thought out. I hope this helps. With regards, [[User:Anupam|Anupam]]<sup>[[User talk:Anupam|Talk]]</sup> 15:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
-::::Very sensible. There are redirects and so on. No doubt we will all reconvene next year, but until then I suggest we leave it. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 16:13, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
-::::The arguments have always favored the term Holy Thursday, and the previous discussion bears that out.  While these sources are old, they provide the basis for determining what I think everyone understands, in English, the majority of sources use Holy Thursday, and even for non-English users, this remains true.
-:The official Catholic term in English is "Holy Thursday" http://www.vatican.va/liturgical_year/holy-week/2009/index_en.htm
-:Methodists in the US use "Holy Thursday" in what appears to be an official capacity.
-:Internationally, Lutherans officially say "Maundy Thursday".  http://www.lutheranworld.org/News/LWI/EN/2032.EN.html
-:American Presbytarians officially use "Maundy".  http://www.pcusa.org/missionyearbook/Apr/09.htm
-:Orthodox Catholic Church seems to use "Holy" (or "Holy and Great")
-:Anglicans use "Maundy"  http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acns/news.cfm?mode=entry&entry=A908EEFA-0FA9-AFB6-3632ACDD53A6D8D1
-:Baptists don't appear to celebrate the holiday
-This looks like the classic WP situations where people want to prescribe that their use of a term should be forced on everyone despite clear WP naming policy. "Wikipedia generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the criteria listed above."[[User:LedRush|LedRush]] ([[User talk:LedRush|talk]]) 18:41, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
-:Lets do a Google search of both terms. I'd be happy to accept the verdict of Google for WP:Common. [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 09:25, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 == Split (?) ==
@@ Line 85: / Line 21: @@
 I question the wisdom of titling the article using a name that not only is more-or-less only used in the UK but also contains a hapax legomenon  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/64.121.6.113|64.121.6.113]] ([[User talk:64.121.6.113#top|talk]]) 15:50, 5 June 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 : You're not the first, but it's been discussed before (see the earlier discussion section on "Article Name") and was settled in a previous [[Talk:Maundy_Thursday/Archive_1#2009_Discussion_.28Thanks.29|RfC]]. (Also, it's not exactly a hapax legomenon, as I understand the term. More of a [[fossil word]].) [[User:Nitpicking polish|Nitpicking polish]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking polish|talk]]) 16:06, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
+:: Even if there has been a discussion before, it can be discussed again. I for one believe the article should be moved to "Holy Thursday", which seems to be definitely more used throughout the English-speaking world than Maundy Thursday. Would anyone have a solid reason to oppose moving the article, while keeping both names in the lead? [[User:Dan Palraz|Dan Palraz]] ([[User talk:Dan Palraz|talk]]) 16:15, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
+:::I am Catholic evangelical Christian and I was raised in Catholic schools, in Ohio USA and we Always called it Maundy Thursday, in the morning at morning Mass w washing of the feet, the priest and nuns called it Holy Thursday, but the Evening Mass,the priests and everyone called it Maundy Thursday! Then I in turn raised my daughters in an evangelical Lutheran church and we always call it Maundy Thursday! Same with my 87 year old dad who goes to a Missouri synod Church, they also say Maundy Thursday! So please just keep the name!
+:::Matter of fact, under the Google trending articles today, it has Maundy Thursday, down not Holy Thursday and the first article was Wikipedia! Thank you! Just my opinion! But I had read that someone thought only in UK it is said Maundy Thursday there only!? Which nope, is not true! Blessings to all! [[User:SandcastleLyndy|SandcastleLyndy]] ([[User talk:SandcastleLyndy|talk]]) 17:57, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
 == Chrism Mass ==
@@ Line 90: / Line 30: @@
 If the term "Maundy Thursday" is retained for this article, then the Chrism Mass should be moved.  The Chrism Mass was traditionally celebrated on this day, but the reason has nothing to do with "Maundy". --[[User:Richardson mcphillips|Richardson mcphillips]] ([[User talk:Richardson mcphillips|talk]]) 19:45, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 : Regardless of what the day is called, the Chrism Mass is still celebrated by a number of churches on this day, and remains an important part of the Holy Week observances. As far as its having "nothing to do with "Maundy", it specifically memorializes what some denominations regard as the founding of the priesthood at the Last Supper on "Maundy" Thursday. Much of the substance was moved two years ago when the Chrism Mass page was re-created (see above). The material here could stand some trimming back now, but some discussion should be retained. -Happy Maundy Thursday. [[User:Mannanan51|Mannanan51]] ([[User talk:Mannanan51|talk]]) 16:14, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
+::In the Catholic Church in England and Wales, the Chrism Mass is normally celebrated on the Wednesday before Maundy Thursday. Maundy Thursday is reserved for the Mass of the Lord's Supper. In checking this it is on the wednesday in Liverpool (https://liverpoolmetrocathedral.org.uk/events/event/chrism-mass/), Southwark (https://www.stgeorgescathedral.org.uk/whats-on/chrism-mass-2024/?d=638471394000000000) Birmingham (https://www.stchadscathedral.org.uk/events/mass-of-chrism-3/) Nottingham and others. In 2024 Westminster has it on Tuesday 26th March.
+::The Chrism mass is NOT the Mass of The Lords Supper. It is a separate Mass usually at a Cathedral, during which three containers of Oil (usually Olive, and I can remember going to Makro one year to get it for my cathedral) are consecrated as "holy chrism," (confirmation, ordination, coronation)" "the oil of catechumens," (baptism) and "the oil of the sick." (self explanatory) [[Special:Contributions/82.38.212.33|82.38.212.33]] ([[User talk:82.38.212.33|talk]]) 13:10, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
+== Possible dates of Maundy Thursday  ==
+The text of the article says Maundy Thursday will "always" fall between 19th March and 22nd April, but the list of forthcoming dates shows that it will fall on 2nd May this year (2024). Maybe I have misunderstood something and this isn't a contradiction, but even so, it could do with some clarification. [[User:Hephae3tion|Hephae3tion]] ([[User talk:Hephae3tion|talk]]) 08:36, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
+:This time indication only referred to the Western counting system, 2nd May is the date of the Eastern one. This year's date is 28 March in the Western church.--[[User:Medusahead|Medusahead]] ([[User talk:Medusahead|talk]]) 09:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)