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Talk:Trivium (disambiguation)

Mark Passio talks about the trivium. This meaning should be somehow included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tilmanb (talk • contribs) 18:54, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 January 2021 and 19 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jakobkatchem.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Trivium Images/Media

I believe the image in the top right corner of the lead section can be placed somewhere more centered and aesthetically pleasing. The image seems to draw attention away from the article instead of towards. GarrettGartholomuleIII (talk) 01:17, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Trivia (education)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Trivia (education) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 4 § Trivia (education) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 19:04, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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-Vandalism removed. &mdash; [[User:ciphergoth|ciphergoth]] 11:43, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
+{{WikiProject Middle Ages |importance=high}}
+{{WikiProject Education |importance=Low}}
+{{WikiProject Philosophy |importance=Low |logic=yes}}
+}}
+{{Backwards copy|title=Education in Emerging Indian Society (F) 10.5 |url=http://www.scribd.com/doc/19999557/Education-in-Emerging-Indian-Society-F-105|year=c. 2008|author=mintu_kant2305}}
+{{Archive box | [[Talk:Trivium (disambiguation)]] }}
+Mark Passio talks about the trivium. This meaning should be somehow included.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Tilmanb|Tilmanb]] ([[User talk:Tilmanb#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tilmanb|contribs]]) 18:54, 18 June 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-== dialectics/logic ==
+==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment==
-i thought that dialectics was the analysis and comparision of two different viewpoints (see the page on dialectics) whereas logic is the study of the rules of inference and the rules themselves. perhaps i am  nitpicking, sorry.
+[[File:Sciences humaines.svg|40px]] This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2021-01-27">27 January 2021</span> and <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2021-05-19">19 May 2021</span>. Further details are available [[Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/California_State_University_Channel_Islands/Introduction_to_LGBT_Studies_(Spring_2021)|on the course page]]. Student editor(s): [[User:Jakobkatchem|Jakobkatchem]].
+{{small|Above undated message substituted from [[Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment]] by [[User:PrimeBOT|PrimeBOT]] ([[User talk:PrimeBOT|talk]]) 11:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)}}
-== Is this the singular form? ==
+== Trivium Images/Media ==
+I believe the image in the top right corner of the lead section can be placed somewhere more centered and aesthetically pleasing. The image seems to draw attention away from the article instead of towards.
-Is this the singular form of the word "trivia" in English? 06:46, 30 April 2007 [[User:131.215.220.112|131.215.220.112]] 00:29, 21 January 2006
+Garrett[[User:GartholomuleIII|GartholomuleIII]] ([[User talk:GartholomuleIII|talk]]) 01:17, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
+== "Trivia (education)" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
-:Apparently not - at least not in the sense of an inessential fact.  However, trivia is the plural of trivium if you are talking about more than one of these colleges.
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
-:<blockquote>I checked www.dictionary.com, and they define trivium as "The lower division of the seven liberal arts in medieval schools, consisting of grammar, logic, and rhetoric."[http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=trivium]  Dictionary.com does note that the word "trivia" is the plural of "trivia" (meaning more than one of those lower divisions)[http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=trivia].  However it does not say that trivium is a singular of trivia in the sense of "Insignificant or inessential matters; trifles."  Neither does Webster's online.[http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/trivium]</blockquote>
+An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect [[:Trivia (education)]] and has thus listed it [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|for discussion]]. This discussion will occur at {{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 4#Trivia (education)}} until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #3F00FF;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 19:04, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
-:So, that leads me to believe that Trivium is not a singular noun for an insignificant or inessential matter.[[User:Johntex|'''Johntex''']]\<sup>[[User_talk:Johntex|talk]]</sup> 04:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
-This raises some interesting (to me) points.  Some Latin words have different plurals in English with different meanings.  Opera is the Latin plural for Opus, but I do not think many people use it in that way.  Two plurals exist for antenna.  The latin one if it's on a bug (biology) and antennas if it is on an electronic device.  Technical editors of journals in biology or electronics would probably correct one to the other to fit their style sheet.
-Media/medium seem to be used in different numbers.
-Data is plural for datum, but is often used in English as a collective noun with a singular verb.  Datum itself is seldom used except on maps.  In that sense, it is used as a basis from which measurements are made.  One map that shows both dry land and water may have two of them. In that case, I have heard cartographers say "two datums."
-English borrows and makes use of words in different and wonderful ways.
-Jim
-Please take my post as light-hearted and do not read any crankiness into it =)
-Addressing your thoughts, in no logical order:  You need more friends who are better educated.  Many of us will say "opera" when referring to two *ahem* opuses.  We also use words like gymnasia, octopodes, datum, and antennae, and have been known to distinguish between alumni and alumnae.  We may refer to Beethoven and all his opera just because it sounds so much neater than "his opuses".  Some of us will fight to the death to keep "disinterested" distinct from "uninterested"; for this reason we'll check dictionaries to see if they got it right before we purchase them.
-The earliest ancestors of what we call "opera" were originally presented in the form of a collection of songs with some recitative between the songs.  Lots of opuses = opera.  The common usage evolved into a singular noun.   Your cartographer friends saying "two datums" do not well understand the language they are using, and don't seem to want to.  Apparently they simply parrot the mistakes of those around them - the result of a dismal educational system that doesn't believe in imposing correct grammar and usage onto poor, tender, young innocents.  I suspect if you told them that "The plural of datum is data" they'd tell you to get lost, so don't try.
-The Trivium was, in early mediæval times, the beginning of education; students started learning grammar at around seven years of age (which is where we get the term "grammar school").  The other two subjects came soon after.  By ten or twelve years of age the student would move on to the quadrivium, and would have finished that before entering university, where he would be studying philosophy and theology.  I'm not sure where the OP got "it was taught in universities" but I'm pretty sure that's dead wrong.  Charlemagne (early ninth century) wished to establish universal education, even for farm boys and yes, *gasp* even for girls, and ordered that the Trivium be taught to any kid who could get to the village magister to learn.
-I checked for the etymology of "trivia" in etymonline.com and find only that the word apparently was a neologism from 1902, arising from "trivial" which goes back to the fifteenth century.  Etymonline's fascination with three roads meeting (tri + via, or "three ways") seems not to grasp the meaning of the Trivium as the basis for rigorous training in clear thinking.
-Oh, and if anyone wishes to counter that the only thinking that was ever done in the middle ages was to argue about angels dancing on the head of a pin, you don't understand the middle ages.  That question was settled in ancient times, before the middle ages, and was simply one of the graduation exercises students might have had to argue (much like debating teams do today, they could be assigned to argue either side of an issue) before graduating.
-[[User:Alcuin of York|Alcuin of York]] 06:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)06:46, 30 April 2007
-== Metal or metal? Hmm... ==
-The word 'Metal' in the 'Metal band Trivium' disambiguation linked to the smooth, shiny stuff that you use to make robots and cutlery. I changed the link to heavy metal music, which is the thing that it was (presumably) referring to. Pax out.
-metalcore, they're not metal as they're closer to hardocre than metal, I"m editing this
-== Meaning of "grammar?" ==
-Didn't the word "grammar" have a broader meaning in medieval universities? I remember a professor of mine once told my class it wasn't grammar as we know it in modern times... <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/207.156.4.2|207.156.4.2]] ([[User talk:207.156.4.2|talk]]) 03:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
-"Grammar", as used by Dorothy L. Sayers in her famous essay on The Trivium ("The Lost Tools of Learning" presented at Oxford, 1947), referred to the underlying structure which makes it possible to understand a subject as a whole.  The underlying structure of mathematics is an understanding of arithmetic and numbers; the underlying structure of history is the time line; of geography it's the map.  (These might be poor examples; I'm pulling them off the top of my head, where there are a lot of cobwebs as well.)  Anyway, I believe Ms. Sayers's use of the word is pretty close to its original meaning.
-[[User:Alcuin of York|Alcuin of York]] 07:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
-== vandalism ==
-for some reason, linking to this page from the "Trivia" article leads to a page that reads "wilson smells like poo". But if you then click discussion and then article you find the full Trivium article. Its a weird sort of bug but I'm not sure how you'd fix that. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/80.3.96.10|80.3.96.10]] ([[User talk:80.3.96.10|talk]]) 14:02, 17 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
-==Move request==
-From [[WP:RM]]:
-*'''[[:Trivium_(education)]] → [[:Trivium]]''' — The trivium (grammar, logic and rhetoric) is a cornerstone philosophy of all western education and is what I was expecting to see when I came here; only to find that it'd been used for some unknown 'metal band' with NN history, I moved the metal band from 'Trivium' to 'Trivium_(Band)' with intent to make the above move but couldn't as 'trivium' was already in use.  If someone could make the swap across it'd be appreciated.  I need not stress that an academic philosophy as integral as trivium is of higher relevance to some band that has put out two self-published albums in their lifetime.  :P  If not, maybe I should make a band named rhetoric! :P —[[User:Jachin|Jachin]] 01:31, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
-** "Trivium" also means "something trivial" (singular of "[[trivia]]"), as at http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20000529/101683.html . And "Trivium" is used as a name for various things, as a Google search for "trivium" will show. I redirected [[:Trivium]] to [[:Trivia (disambiguation)]], where all the meanings of "trivium" and "trivia" and "trivial" are. [[User:Anthony Appleyard|Anthony Appleyard]] 05:31, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
-*'''Support''' move. This is the primary meaning of "trivium". Who uses the singular of ''trivia''? but we should have a dab header for those who do. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] <small>[[User talk:Pmanderson|PMAnderson]]</small> 22:43, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
-*"''The trivium (grammar, logic and rhetoric) is a cornerstone philosophy of all western education''": I was never taught logic or rhetoric at my [[grammar school]] or any other school. And of the [[quadrivium]] which followed it, I was taught arithmetic from the beginning at infants school, not waiting for the trivium to finish. The trivium is likely important history, but only history. [[User:Anthony Appleyard|Anthony Appleyard]] 22:51, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
-*Sounds to me like "Trivium" should be a disambiguation page. BTW, the original move should have been to "Trivium (band)", since band is not a proper nou and thus does not need capitalisation. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 00:06, 3 June 2007 (UTC)