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* <nowiki>[[The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time#Reception and legacy|The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time]]</nowiki> The anchor (#Reception and legacy) is no longer available because it was [[Special:Diff/739199994|deleted by a user]] before. <!-- {"title":"Reception and legacy","appear":{"revid":339751340,"parentid":339638905,"timestamp":"2010-01-24T17:07:51Z","removed_section_titles":["Critical reception"],"added_section_titles":["Reception and legacy"]},"disappear":{"revid":739199994,"parentid":738987863,"timestamp":"2016-09-13T10:14:59Z","removed_section_titles":["Reception and legacy"],"added_section_titles":["Reception","Legacy","CITEREF2006"]}} -->
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== "[[:.mpk]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
== Discontinued dates for the N64 ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]

The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=.mpk&redirect=no .mpk]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at {{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 February 21#.mpk}} until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Pizzaplayer219|<b style="background:#f5b836;color:#d12b1f;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Pizzaplayer219</b>]][[User talk:Pizzaplayer219|<sup>Talk</sup>]]<sub title="C" style="margin-left:-22q;">[[special:Contributions/Pizzaplayer219|Contribs]]</sub> 16:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
I found the other dates which I presume the N64 Discontinued in.
== "[[:.MPK (Memory Pack)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==

[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
''Source'': https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=.MPK_(Memory_Pack)&redirect=no .MPK (Memory Pack)]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at {{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 February 21#.MPK (Memory Pack)}} until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Pizzaplayer219|<b style="background:#f5b836;color:#d12b1f;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Pizzaplayer219</b>]][[User talk:Pizzaplayer219|<sup>Talk</sup>]]<sub title="C" style="margin-left:-22q;">[[special:Contributions/Pizzaplayer219|Contribs]]</sub> 16:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

== "[[:.MPK]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
* Japan: April 30, 2002
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
* Australia: May 11, 2003
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=.MPK&redirect=no .MPK]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at {{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 February 21#.MPK}} until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Pizzaplayer219|<b style="background:#f5b836;color:#d12b1f;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Pizzaplayer219</b>]][[User talk:Pizzaplayer219|<sup>Talk</sup>]]<sub title="C" style="margin-left:-22q;">[[special:Contributions/Pizzaplayer219|Contribs]]</sub> 16:07, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
* Europe: May 16, 2003
* North America: November 30, 2003
* Korea: 2003
* Brazil: 2003
* China: December 31, 2016 (iQue Player)
<!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:LeoBeyene|LeoBeyene]] ([[User talk:LeoBeyene#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LeoBeyene|contribs]]) 20:39, 27 November 2021 (UTC)</span>
:[[WP:USERG]]. Simple, Fandom and other open wikis are not reliable sources. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 21:25, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Oh... I'm sorry about that. I didn't know about "reliability" or sources and citations. -- [[LeoBeyene]]

== Proposed merge of [[Nintendo 64 technical specifications]] into [[Nintendo 64#Technical specifications]] ==
{{Archive top|status=merge|result=Consensus to merge <span style="background:#F3F3F3; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 21:23, 22 April 2022 (UTC)}}
Not notable enough on it's own, and also seems overly detailed for what it's describing (goes into heavy detail on the GPU and some other things which may not be interesting to most people). ― [[User:Blaze Wolf|<b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze&nbsp;Wolf</b>]][[User talk:Blaze Wolf|<sup>Talk</sup>]]<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze&nbsp;Wolf#6545</sub> 17:02, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

:Note that I first asked about this at [[WT:VG]] to see if it would be worth my time starting a merge discussion. ― [[User:Blaze Wolf|<b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze&nbsp;Wolf</b>]][[User talk:Blaze Wolf|<sup>Talk</sup>]]<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze&nbsp;Wolf#6545</sub> 17:47, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
:'''Merge'''Per reasons above + Reasons discussed in [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games]]. <span style="color:cyan;">[[User:PerryPerryD|PerryPerryD]]</span> 17:47, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' - per nomination and Wikiproject conversation linked by PerryPerry above. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 18:08, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Merge and also merge [[Nintendo 64 programming characteristics]]''' for the same reasons. This is way too technical for a generalist encyclopedia. We're not a how-to guide for programming on N64. [[User:Axem Titanium|Axem Titanium]] ([[User talk:Axem Titanium|talk]]) 01:13, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
*:{{ping|Axem Titanium}} I was actually planning on proposing a merge for that one after this one had closed to simplify the merge discussion (I doubt anyone would oppose to that but agree with this nom but you never know). ― [[User:Blaze Wolf|<b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze&nbsp;Wolf</b>]][[User talk:Blaze Wolf|<sup>Talk</sup>]]<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze&nbsp;Wolf#6545</sub> 01:40, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' per nom and WT:VG. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 09:54, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' per nom and WT:VG.[[User:Newfiebluejay|<span style="background-color: blue; color: white">Newfiebluejay</span>]] ([[User talk:Newfiebluejay|talk]]) 13:01, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== Competition ==

It's occurred to me that the lead's description of the Saturn as one of the primary competitors for the Nintendo 64 doesn't make much sense. Outside of Japan, the Saturn was no longer a serious contender by the end of 1997: third party support had completely dropped off, with the Saturn's most loyal third party publishers announcing well in advance that they were going to finish what they could put out in time for Christmas 1997 and that would be it, and Sega had already announced the Dreamcast was coming, killing confidence in the Saturn. Outside of Japan, the Nintendo 64 didn't launch until late 1996 or later. So with the exception of the Japanese market, the Saturn and Nintendo 64 only competed for about a year, much of that during the N64's "honeymoon period" when competition was essentially irrelevant. (And even in Japan, the PlayStation overshadowed the Saturn as a competitor.) Basically, the N64 arrived just as the Saturn was saying goodbye.

So, I'm proposing that we remove the Saturn from that statement, possibly replacing it with the Dreamcast, which at least shared the market with the N64 for its entire lifespan. [[User:Martin IIIa|Martin IIIa]] ([[User talk:Martin IIIa|talk]]) 15:43, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

:Please tell me why "Most of [my] assertions [...] are completely mistaken".

:And no, this discussion is not about why the PS2 is a N64 competitor console, but about why the Saturn is not.

:Ok, anyway, now you are cordially invited to make arguments why the PS2 should be described as a primary N64 competitor console.

:My arguments why I think this is clearly not the case still are that in terms of console generation, performance, success, target group and lifespan, the PS2 was in a completely different, not comparable league. In addition, I couldn't find any reliable media coverage according to which the N64 competed with the PS2.

:Again: Just because the N64 was discontinued after the launch of the PS2 doesn't mean it "competed" with it. According to this logic, the NES would have competed with the Genesis, the SNES with the PS1, and the GameCube with the Xbox 360.-- [[User:Maxeto0910|Maxeto0910]] ([[User talk:Maxeto0910|talk]]) 20:53, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
::{{tq|"(T)he Saturn was no longer a serious contender by the end of 1997&nbsp;... Outside of Japan, the Nintendo 64 didn't launch until late 1996 or later."}} According to an April 1998 financial report ([https://web.archive.org/web/20040504003308/http://sega.jp/IR/en/ar/ar1998/ar98.pdf p. 7]), Sega's consumer product sales (''i.e.'', its home consoles/software, excluding its arcade business) experienced a staggering <u>75.4%</u> decline outside of Japan during March 1997–March 1998 relative to the previous year, which neatly coincides with the Western launch of the Nintendo 64. Correlation does not equal causation, but one way to interpret this data is that American and European consumers who had still been on the fence regarding their preference for a fifth generation console in 1995–1996 overwhelmingly chose Nintendo over Sega after the former finally threw its hat into the ring, and that the N64 was thus the final nail in the Saturn's coffin. In that sense, the competition between the two consoles, though short-lived, is not historically insignificant.[[User:TheTimesAreAChanging|TheTimesAreAChanging]] ([[User talk:TheTimesAreAChanging|talk]])
:::Maxeto0910 - The trouble is that your assertions, in addition to being incorrect, are too vague and broad to comment on concisely, and speaking specifically of your edit summary assertions, they have nothing to do with your removal of the PlayStation 2 from the statement anyway. Whether the Saturn or the PlayStation 2 was more of a competitor has no bearing on whether either was a primary competitor.
:::The discussion is clearly marked "competition", and please tell me you aren't going to argue that it makes sense to [[WP:EDITWAR]] over one item in a list while another item in the same list is under discussion on the talk page after an edit summary directed you there.
:::Of course the NES competed with the Genesis, the SNES with the PS1, and the GameCube with the Xbox 360. Comments like that make me wonder if you are just trying to shoehorn all console history into discrete console generations for the sake of oversimplification.
:::TheTimesAreAChanging - The competition was significant to the Saturn, but not to the Nintendo 64. This is similar to how we might list the PlayStation as a primary competitor of the Neo Geo CD, but listing the Neo Geo CD as a primary competitor of the PlayStation would be ludicrous.--[[User:Martin IIIa|Martin IIIa]] ([[User talk:Martin IIIa|talk]]) 12:37, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

::::Again: It would be nice if you could explain to me why my assertions are incorrect instead of accusing me of it again and again.

::::And in what way are they too vague and broad? The PS2 was one console generation (5th vs 6th) above the N64, had much more raw computational power (<1 vs 6.2 GFLOPS), sold about 5 times as many units (32 mio. vs >155 mio.) and was way longer on the market until it was discontinued (6 vs 13 years).

::::"Whether the Saturn or the PlayStation 2 was more of a competitor has no bearing on whether either was a primary competitor."

::::I never used this as an argument for why the PS2 isn't a N64 competitor console, I just wanted to make it more clear with this comparison.

::::Sorry, but 2 explained and constructive reverts clearly don't meet the definition of an "edit war", especially since I came to the discussion page after you directed me here the first time.

::::No, the NES clearly didn't compete with the Genesis just because it was still on the market after the Genesis launched. There was virtually no competition between Nintendo and Sega promoting the NES over the Genesis or vice versa. That came with the SNES. The same applies for the other examples. Your approach is an oversimplification, as it is (nearly) solely based on release and discontinuation years and doesn't take into account market circumstances sufficiently. And yes, console generations are indeed a classification of consoles that competed against each other, see [[Home video game console generations]].-- [[User:Maxeto0910|Maxeto0910]] ([[User talk:Maxeto0910|talk]]) 17:59, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

:::::P.S.: I also tend to keep the Saturn as a N64 competitor console in the lead, as it clearly competed against the N64. Even if the competition didn't last for long; that doesn't matter.-- [[User:Maxeto0910|Maxeto0910]] ([[User talk:Maxeto0910|talk]]) 19:00, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
::::::I have to be honest, Maxeto0910: The level of ignorance you're claiming here makes it very difficult to hold a conversation with you. You're claiming ignorance of fundamental points such as what "competition" means (by claiming the PS2 did not compete with the N64 because it overpowered and outsold it), what edit warring is (by claiming that it doesn't count as edit warring so long as the editor leaves an edit summary and decrees his own revert "constructive"), of edit time stamps (by claiming that you came to the talk page after I directed you here the first time rather than after I reverted you again and repeated my directive to use the talk page), of basic console history (by claiming the NES and Genesis were never promoted against each other), and what "oversimplification" means (by claiming it's an oversimplification to say competition is defined by anything more than generational classification). Incidentally, at the time the N64 was categorized as the first console of a new generation, so by your own definition the Saturn and PlayStation did not compete with the N64 at all.
::::::So, I'm not sure what more I can say beyond look up the words "competition" and "oversimplification", check out [[WP:Edit warring]], read up on some console history (try the search term "Sega does what Nintendon't", for instance), and ''then'' form an opinion on which consoles competed with which. [[User:Martin IIIa|Martin IIIa]] ([[User talk:Martin IIIa|talk]]) 00:33, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
:::::::I will spare myself the polemics and simply comment briefly on the points you raised, which you either took out of context or did not understand.
:::::::1) You have brazenly picked out the two points which alone don't make sense. I mentioned them along with a number of other aspects to make clear that the PS2 wasn't a N64 console in any respect. Yes, of course the PS2 was overpowered compared to the N64 because it was a console of the next generation and basically launched when the N64 was pretty much at the end of its lifespan. What I way trying to say is that these two systems are simply not properly comparable, regardless of which standards are applied (except, of course, your release/discontinued date approach, which doesn't make much sense).
:::::::2) Of course, it was not edit warring, at least not started by me. I explained in detail why the PS2 can't be considered a N64 competitor console in any way. You undid my edit and simply directed me to the talk page without a proper explanation why my arguments were wrong. Basic principle of epistemology: If reasoned evidence is presented and you believe it to be false, it is your responsibility to prove it rather than simply removing it without further explanation. If anyone here should have engaged in edit warring, it's you.
:::::::3) Just as I said: As long as you don't make arguments, there's no basic for a discussion. You have to make arguments why the points I mentioned in my edit summaries were wrong. And when there are different reasoned oppinions, we can discuss them on the talk page. However, as I said, you just undid my edits without any explanation related to my points, so there was nothing to argue about, which is why I didn't came to the talk page for so long. You would have had to refute at least one of my argumentation points on the talk page (or at least in the edit summary); before that, there is no reason for me to go to the talk page, because there is no basis for discussion.
:::::::4) No, I didn't claim that it's oversimplification "to say competition is defined by anything more than generational classification." I was just saying that it is a gross oversimplification if the indicators that define competition are solely based on release and discontinuation years, as yours are most of the time. Console generations, however, take into account market circumstances, which is why they are far superior in making statements about which systems competed against each other and are largely seen as a meaningful indicator, in contrast to just comparing when two systems were released/discontinued.
:::::::5) Categorized by whom and when? What is considered a console generation (especially retrospectively) is not defined by the manufacturers, but by media coverage and the general public opinion.
:::::::6) That's quite funny, because Sega's marketing campaign "Sega does what Nintendon't" shows well that my approach makes more sense, as Sega promoted its Genesis over the SNES with this term, and that's just what I was saying. You claimed that the NES competed with the Genesis, and I said it didn't and argued that "There was virtually no competition between Nintendo and Sega promoting the NES over the Genesis or vice versa. That came with the SNES." This campaign is a prime example.-- [[User:Maxeto0910|Maxeto0910]] ([[User talk:Maxeto0910|talk]]) 00:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
:I agree with TheTimesAreAChanging - Sega and Nintendo were very much in contention, the Saturn and the N64 were part of the same console generation and Sega tried to do the same thing by releasing the Dreamcast early. Sega tried to beat their competition to the market. Check out some old issues of NextGen, EGM, etc in archive.org and you will see they very much covered a horserace amongst these consoles. '''[[User:Andrevan|Andre]]'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">[[User_talk:Andrevan|🚐]]</span> 01:19, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
:I've been doing a lot of reading and writing about the Saturn lately actually. It's been quite interesting to see how many multiplatform games Saturn got with PS1 back in 1995. And then throughout 1996 momentum slowed and games started to be cancelled. And in 1997, support fell off a cliff. And that exactly when the N64 was being revealed, promoted, launched, and on the market. Back then, the industry couldn't handle 3 separate platforms, and Nintendo squeezed out Sega. (And even in 1998 when Saturn was on life support, they were still competitors. They weren't competeing ''well'', but competing poorly is still competing. They were still undeniably ''there''.) So all in all, I feel very strongly towards them being considered competitors. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 01:36, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 20:55, 8 April 2024

Former good article nomineeNintendo 64 was a Engineering and technology good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 13, 2009Good article nomineeNot listed
January 18, 2009Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

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