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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 March 2022

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Section 'Beginning of World War II, 1939' Change: The Polish military envoy to France, general Stanisław Burhardt-Bukacki, upon receiving the text of the message sent by Gamelin, alerted marshal Śmigły: "I received the message by general Gamelin. Please don't believe a single word in the dispatch".[24] The following day, the commander of the French Military Mission to Poland, General Louis Faury, informed the Polish Chief of Staff, General Wacław Stachiewicz, that the planned major offensive on the western front had to be postponed from 17 September to 20 September. On September 17, French divisions were ordered to retreat to their barracks along the Maginot Line, a withdrawal that was completed on October 17.

to

Gamelin made it clear to the Supreme Allied War Council that he would not commit to an offensive, even if the Poles held out for two to three months, suggesting that previous guarantees given may have been deliberately misleading to buy the French time for a war on their own terms.^[1]

justification: The section currently is partly unsourced (the section on the withdrawal to the Maginot Line) and the quote from Bukacki is more relevant to the Polish response to the perceived betrayal, than evidence of it. Also, the given quote only seems to appear in the Polityka magazine, which itself has no citations, and all other references I could find to this either cite the same Polityka article, or this Wikipedia article. 80.238.115.65 (talk) 22:21, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ CIENCIALA, ANNA M. “POLAND IN BRITISH AND FRENCH POLICY IN 1939: DETERMINATION TO FIGHT—OR AVOID WAR?” The Polish Review, vol. 34, no. 3, University of Illinois Press, 1989, pp. 199–226, http://www.jstor.org/stable/25778439.

Not done for now: Your suggested edit doesn't contain all of the (sourced and valid) information present in the prior version. I'll include a citation needed tag for the unsourced parts if it's not there yet, though. If you wish to write a better version that includes all of the information, feel free to include in a comment and tag me, or include in a comment and set the edit request to non-answered again. Thanks for your suggestion. Amadeus²² 🙋 🔔 18:39, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 June 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change "...including the rise and empowerment of the Third Reich (Nazi Germany), the rise of the Soviet Union (USSR) as a dominant superpower with control of large parts of Europe..." in the lead to

"...including the rise and empowerment of Nazi Germany, the rise of the Soviet Union as a dominant superpower with control of large parts of Europe...".

There's no need to use two names for the same thing when only one would suffice. Rousillon (talk) 18:45, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nythar (talk) 04:53, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] CIENCIALA, ANNA M. “POLAND IN BRITISH AND FRENCH POLICY IN 1939: DETERMINATION TO FIGHT—OR AVOID WAR?” The Polish Review, vol. 34, no. 3, University of Illinois Press, 1989, pp. 199–226, http://www.jstor.org/stable/25778439.

[1]

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+== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 March 2022 ==
-== France and Britain ... did not declare war on the Soviet Union ==
+{{edit extended-protected|Western betrayal|answered=yes}}
-They weren't oblidged to do it, let's not mix apples of betrayal (Germany) and  oranges of realism (SU).[[User:Xx236|Xx236]] ([[User talk:Xx236|talk]]) 05:48, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
+Section 'Beginning of World War II, 1939'
+Change:
+The Polish military envoy to France, general Stanisław Burhardt-Bukacki, upon receiving the text of the message sent by Gamelin, alerted marshal Śmigły: "I received the message by general Gamelin. Please don't believe a single word in the dispatch".[24] The following day, the commander of the French Military Mission to Poland, General Louis Faury, informed the Polish Chief of Staff, General Wacław Stachiewicz, that the planned major offensive on the western front had to be postponed from 17 September to 20 September. On September 17, French divisions were ordered to retreat to their barracks along the Maginot Line, a withdrawal that was completed on October 17.
+to
-== Subsection on [[Operation Unthinkable]] ==
+Gamelin made it clear to the Supreme Allied War Council that he would not commit to an offensive, even if the Poles held out for two to three months, suggesting that previous guarantees given may have been deliberately misleading to buy the French time for a war on their own terms.<ref>CIENCIALA, ANNA M. “POLAND IN BRITISH AND FRENCH POLICY IN 1939: DETERMINATION TO FIGHT—OR AVOID WAR?” The Polish Review, vol. 34, no. 3, University of Illinois Press, 1989, pp. 199–226, http://www.jstor.org/stable/25778439.</ref>
-I have added this subsection. The planning of [[Operation Unthinkable]] is a source support for two issues presented in the article: that Yalta agreement was not honored by Soviet Union, up to considering military enforcement, and that the enforcement might not be realistically possible. I do not insist on keeping this section, but please discuss with me before removing. There is already a reference in the article to Operation Unthinkable, but it drums up the sensation ("enlist Nazi troops") which I think seriously distorts the issue. [[User:Szafranpl|Szafranpl]] ([[User talk:Szafranpl|talk]]) 10:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
-== Section needed on modern Ukraine and the western betrayal against them with regards to the Budapest Memorandum! ==
+justification: The section currently is partly unsourced (the section on the withdrawal to the Maginot Line) and the quote from Bukacki is more relevant to the Polish response to the perceived betrayal, than evidence of it. Also, the given quote only seems to appear in the Polityka magazine, which itself has no citations, and all other references I could find to this either cite the same Polityka article, or this Wikipedia article. [[Special:Contributions/80.238.115.65|80.238.115.65]] ([[User talk:80.238.115.65|talk]]) 22:21, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
-The title says it all, young independent Ukraine gave up 2500(!) inherited ex-CCCP live nuclear warheads, for security guarantee but they got a literal toilet paper undersigned by USA, UK, France and later China. None of them have fired even a blank warning shot while Vlad Putin is eating .ur alive... [[Special:Contributions/80.99.11.157|80.99.11.157]] ([[User talk:80.99.11.157|talk]])  <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 14:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+{{reflist-talk}}
-== Is the long quotation from[[Ernest Mandel]] [[WP:UNDUE|due]]? ==
+:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:'''<!-- Template:EEp --> Your suggested edit doesn't contain all of the (sourced and valid) information present in the prior version. I'll include a citation needed tag for the unsourced parts if it's not there yet, though. If you wish to write a better version that includes all of the information, feel free to include in a comment and tag me, or include in a comment and set the edit request to non-answered again. Thanks for your suggestion. [[User:Amadeus1999|<span style="color: #3D5F83">'''Amadeus<sup><small>22</small></sup>'''</span>]] [[User talk:Amadeus1999|🙋]] [[Help:Notifications|🔔]] 18:39, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
+== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 June 2022 ==
-Ping [[User:Albrecht]] re [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Western_betrayal&oldid=prev&diff=990530220&diffmode=source&fbclid=IwAR04l_sfmk1rtc2x0SOQH-XrTfV0pyuTsLZsmLp1NAwGWAFk3GkFVqHJDFg]. I am concerned that the opinion of this person is not [[WP:UNDUE|due]]. Could you comment on why we  need such a long quote here? I would be willing to compromise by shortening his opinion to a single sentence, that seems more reasonable. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 02:57, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
-:Significant source, needed for neutrality for this conspiracy theory.[[User:Birbor|Birbor]] ([[User talk:Birbor|talk]]) 14:01, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
+{{edit extended-protected|Western betrayal|answered=yes}}
-:I take your point that the large block quote probably takes up [[WP:UNDUE|undue]] space relative to a fairly small subsection &mdash; but this points, I think, to a wider and more structural problem with the article: the "[[Western_betrayal#Poland|Poland]]" section goes into extraordinary detail to effectively make a case for a "Western betrayal" interpretation of WWII, and does so without clearly distinguishing ''empirical facts'' from their (partisan) ''interpretation'' (''pace'' the user above, I wouldn't call it a "conspiracy theory"; merely a metanarrative that should be open to various levels of contestation and rebuttal). The problem is that this large and sweeping section contains virtually zero contrary viewpoints or criticism; so, relative to this great mass of "pro-Western betrayal" content, I don't think Mandel's counterargument is out of place or excessive. That said, I'm open to any number of suggestions on how best to structure the article to accommodate diverging points of view. [[User:Albrecht|Albrecht]] ([[User talk:Albrecht|talk]]) 19:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
+Change "...including the rise and empowerment of the Third Reich (Nazi Germany), the rise of the Soviet Union (USSR) as a dominant superpower with control of large parts of Europe..." in the lead to
+"...including the rise and empowerment of Nazi Germany, the rise of the Soviet Union as a dominant superpower with control of large parts of Europe...".
+There's no need to use two names for the same thing when only one would suffice. [[User:Rousillon|Rousillon]] ([[User talk:Rousillon|talk]]) 18:45, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
+:{{done}}<!-- Template:EEp --> [[User:Nythar|Nythar]] ([[User talk:Nythar|talk]]) 04:53, 19 June 2022 (UTC)