Talk:Breaking Bad: Difference between revisions
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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Northeastern_University/Advanced_Writing_in_the_Business_Administration_Professions_(Spring_2018) | assignments = [[User:AJ94Dubai|AJ94Dubai]] }} |
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== [[Los Pollos Hermanos]] == |
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Why does Rian Johnson's opinion matter enough to garner its own section in the article? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.206.61.27|71.206.61.27]] ([[User talk:71.206.61.27#top|talk]]) 07:35, 4 November 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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I created an article for [[Los Pollos Hermanos]], since there's been real-life LPH restaurants as well.--[[User:Prisencolin|Prisencolin]] ([[User talk:Prisencolin|talk]]) |
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== Objectively greatest show of all time? == |
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== Inadequate explanation of title == |
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There is footnote 5 showing sources for that bold claim. However there should be accompanying mention that other more objective sources do not make that finding. I list sources. |
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''According to Gilligan, the title is a Southern colloquialism meaning "to raise hell".'' |
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I chose 5 popularly credible sites (who use objective methods, not writer opinions) that I would consider to have authoritative weight (and no, huffingtonpost is not one of them): |
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tvguide.com |
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imdb.com |
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ranker.com |
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rottentomatoes.com |
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metacritic.com |
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The phrase "breaking bad" apparently cannot mean "to raise hell" since it is the wrong part of speech. Additionally, Wiktionary defines the root phrase "break bad" as follows: |
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As of the time I type this these respectively placed it 9th, 2nd, 4th, ?th, and tied with 3 others for 1st |
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1. (colloquial, of an event or of one's fortunes) To go wrong; to go downhill.<br> |
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FYI, if you're curious, as of the time I type this, firsts were respectively |
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2. (colloquial, especially Southern US and Midwestern US, of a person) To go bad; to turn toward immorality or crime. |
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Sopranos; |
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Game of Thrones; |
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Simpsons; |
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?; and |
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The Larry Sanders Show, Season 4 / Murder One: Season 1 / The Larry Sanders Show: Season 6 / Breaking Bad: Season 5 |
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This is substantially different from the idea of "raising hell" anyway. |
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http://www.tvguide.com/news/tv-guide-magazine-60-best-series-1074962/<BR> |
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http://www.imdb.com/search/title?num_votes=5000,&sort=user_rating,desc&title_type=tv_series<BR> |
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http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/greatest-tv-shows-of-all-time<BR> |
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? (I could not locate an all time list in rottentomatoes)<BR> |
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http://www.metacritic.com/browse/tv/score/metascore/all/filtered?sort=desc |
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Hopefully someone who is familiar with this expression can look at this. [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:1AD:5274:51ED:10BC|2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:1AD:5274:51ED:10BC]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:1AD:5274:51ED:10BC|talk]]) 20:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC) |
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Look, I loved the show. LOVED it. I'm just calling for objectivity. (If you want subjective, I might say to choose Buffy!) |
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:The actual meaning shouldn't matter as Gilligan's interpretation is all that counts. If he thinks it means "to raise hell" and that's why he chose it for the show then that's just his misunderstaning. Perhaps a line could be added to say that this isn't the actual meaning of to break bad? [[User:FishandChipper|FishandChipper]] [[User_talk:FishandChipper|🐟]][[Special:Contributions/FishandChipper|🍟]] 09:07, 19 July 2022 (UTC) |
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Furthermore, metacritic (i.e. Guiness) only refers to <b>a single season</b>. If nothing else whatsoever, that should be indicated. Most certainly the phrase "all time" does not belong. |
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::Misunderstanding the meaning of an expression is one thing; defining it in a grammatically impossible manner is a different level of error. Perhaps he thought it meant "raising hell"? [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:F9D1:D8AF:1D14:8DE9|2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:F9D1:D8AF:1D14:8DE9]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:F9D1:D8AF:1D14:8DE9|talk]]) 00:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC) |
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:::Nope, we have to go with what Gilligan said, even if he is grammatically wrong. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 00:27, 2 August 2022 (UTC) |
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== Changes From Was to Is == |
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Finally, footnote 5 selects <b>opinions</b> from <b>individual</b> writer-reviewers. Does that really mean anything compared to tvguide, imdb, ranker, rottentomatoes and metacritic, which are aggregators? |
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Whomever decided to arbitrarily remove the dates (years of production) and also (apparently), decided to change description of past television shows from was to is without discussion and with some "secret or hidden" instructions not to change it back has literally sent searches away from Wikipedia and to other websites for searches to see if television shows are still in production. This has without a doubt been done without discussion within the PUBLIC Wikipedia community. So before changing it back, explain why you are doing so. I have come across dozens of these changes without any given reason except a coded invisible thing stating "do not change to was" [[Special:Contributions/2600:1700:8A90:ECF0:C12B:82C:21EF:285E|2600:1700:8A90:ECF0:C12B:82C:21EF:285E]] ([[User talk:2600:1700:8A90:ECF0:C12B:82C:21EF:285E|talk]]) 06:02, 20 July 2022 (UTC) |
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I am not an editor so if anyone wants to run with any of this, go nuts[[Special:Contributions/70.119.177.3|70.119.177.3]] ([[User talk:70.119.177.3|talk]]) |
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:"Is" is correct and always has been. Please read [[WP:TVNOW]]. TV shows don't stop being a TV show just because they are complete; they still exist. You wouldn't refer to a film, novel, comic book, album, or any other piece of fiction or media as "was" once it's complete, so you wouldn't a TV series either. [[User:Drovethrughosts|Drovethrughosts]] ([[User talk:Drovethrughosts|talk]]) 12:07, 20 July 2022 (UTC) |
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:Already discussed [[Talk:Breaking Bad/Archive 2#Greatest Series of All Time??|here]] with consensus. Someone tried to rehash it [[Talk:Breaking Bad/Archive 3#"One of the greatest television series of all time"|here]], but earlier consensus was pointed out. |
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:Unless all versions of the show have been destroyed and it was impossible to view it further, we treat all TV shows as existing in the present tense, across WP. See [[MOS:TENSE]] --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 12:08, 20 July 2022 (UTC) |
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:I don't believe there is anything to discuss. [[Special:Contributions/EauZenCashHaveIt|EauZenCashHaveIt]] ([[User talk:EauZenCashHaveIt#top|I'm All Ears]]) 09:57, 23 July 2016 (UTC) |
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== Is this a "neo western"? == |
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If that's all there is to it, fine. I thank all of those who spent significant time considering earlier discussions. I am also impressed at your recollection of them and supplied links. However, the cited earlier discussions were subjectively argumentative. I am suggesting something new, objectively based reconsideration. I know everyone's time is very valuable, but I think a critical read of what I compiled is worthwhile. I know it's long, but save for a time-wasting mention of Buffy (forgive me, excise that sentence!), I put a lot of careful and specific analysis into this talk section. However I'll let it go if experts still feel there's nothing to do here.[[Special:Contributions/24.27.72.99|24.27.72.99]] ([[User talk:24.27.72.99|talk]]) 09:39, 11 October 2016 (UTC) |
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Ninety percent of this is Walter White at school, Walter White at home, Walter White drives his car somewhere. It hardly seems to be a "neo western" as in a latter-day version of Shane or Fistful of Dollars. [[User:Mains Olsen|Mains Olsen]] ([[User talk:Mains Olsen|talk]]) 10:21, 4 August 2022 (UTC) |
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yeah definitely a questionable statement - not that i disagree but thats something completely opinion based. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Azwick|Azwick]] ([[User talk:Azwick#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Azwick|contribs]]) 23:29, 8 May 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:I'm not sure you really watched the show. Those are pretty hyperbolic assertions of the show. You need to present a much more detailed analysis and supply much more actual evidence that contradicts the show's label as a "neo-western". Assertions like "Ninety percent of this..." isn't reliable information to go by in changing a key piece of the article's information. Provide more evidence and specificity. [[Special:Contributions/168.26.153.205|168.26.153.205]] ([[User talk:168.26.153.205|talk]]) 17:19, 6 September 2022 (UTC) |
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:Wholly agree. As it stands, I think that's a rather exaggerated and senseless claim that does not belong in an encyclopedia. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:21, 17 September 2018 (UTC) |
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:For information, re the edit summary in [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Breaking_Bad&diff=859987085&oldid=859973305 this revert], the "hidden comment" is this: |
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::"NOTE: The statement "Breaking Bad is widely regarded as one of the greatest television series of all time" is properly supported by multiple reliable sources in "Critical reception". Per "WP:CITELEAD", statements in the lead do not need to be cited if they repeat properly cited information appearing later in the article; moreover, an editorial consensus needs to be reached before adding any citations to the lead. Please refer to "Greatest Series of All Time??" on Talk:Breaking Bad for a more detailed explanation." |
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:So, I'm not sure why the sources are provided there. The hidden comment says they need not be. Rhe discussion thread that the (undated) hidden note refers to was in 2014 and,, as noted above, can be found at [[Talk:Breaking_Bad/Archive_2#Greatest_Series_of_All_Time??]].It was quite lengthy discussion, but not an[[WP:RfC]]. I'm suggesting that the claim, as it stands is not justified. Looking at the sources quoted: |
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::[[Frazier Moore]] said "This drama series retired undefeated as TV's best ever." That was five years ago. But he claim is not "greatest television series" but "'''best drama series'''"; |
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::[[Allen St John]] argues his case, but his assessment was made before the series finished? He admits he takes "an alternative take on sports, entertainment and pop culture"; |
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::[[David Bianculli]] said: "The best — and biggest, and most recent — of the bunch ..." But the bunch was "'''most exciting recent TV''' offerings on DVD." not all TV series ever produced; |
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::Unnamed from Yahooo, quotes [[Tim Molloy]], who does indeed say "This is the best show ever made." So yes that's quite a strong claim; |
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::[[Walter Hickey]] said it was "considered '''one of''' the best television shows ever made."; |
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::[[Richard Lawson (TV critic)|Richard Lawson]] said "We're just gonna come right out and say it: Breaking Bad is The Best Show", So yes, again, that's quite a strong claim; |
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::[[Maureen Ryan]] said "... is '''one of''' the great shows of television’s Golden Age." |
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:So, apart from New Zealander Molloy, all the critics are American? And do they consider all television shows ever made across the world? Of course not, and neither would they be qualified to judge. |
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:I think the claim made needs to be adjusted, it's really not justified based on just these reviews. But perhaps there are others not yet seen. I'm still rather doubtful that a US TV series, judged only by a relatively small number of US critics, justifies such a huge claim. Even if we could all agree on what "greatest" actually means. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:05, 17 September 2018 (UTC) |
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::{{re|Martinevans123}} Late reply, & I agree with your position but your best bet here is to take it to a [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard noticeboard] (if you haven’t done so already) since the prior consensus will just get replayed here. That’s if you still care, though, and the strongest argument can be made with regards to [[WP:UNDUE]] weight which specifies that claims like ‘widely’ must be supported by the MAJORITY of reliable sources. It’d definitely take some time to extensively google search all of them to skim for ‘greatest’, so it’s certainly up to you. [[User:Barely made one|Barely made one]] ([[User talk:Barely made one|talk]]) 04:01, 28 October 2018 (UTC) |
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== External links modified (January 2018) == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just modified 2 external links on [[Breaking Bad]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/821881382|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131122032655/http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/09/breaking-bad-complete-series-blu-ray-includes-2-hour-documentary-alternate-ending.html to http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/09/breaking-bad-complete-series-blu-ray-includes-2-hour-documentary-alternate-ending.html |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130220125205/http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/02/writers-guild-awards-2013-full-winners-list.html to http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/02/writers-guild-awards-2013-full-winners-list.html |
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. |
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Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 04:25, 23 January 2018 (UTC) |
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== Articles for some Season 3 episodes? == |
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I noticed some episodes of Season 3, such as One Minute, have no articles. Is there any objection to me creating an article for at least "One Minute?" As in, has this already been discussed in the past? [[User:Hummerrocket|<span style="background-color: #FFD700; color: #4169E1; font: Comic; font-size:110%">Hummerrocket</span>]] [[User talk:Hummerrocket|<span style = "color: #2E8B57; font-style: italic">(talk)</span>]] 16:35, 25 November 2018 (UTC) |
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::I wondered the same thing about sections being added for the episodes not yet included. I'd definitely be interested in helping to contribute to the episode summaries if no one else is currently working on that. Great article! --[[User:LauraStephens435|LauraStephens435]] ([[User talk:LauraStephens435|talk]]) 03:12, 16 September 2020 (UTC) |
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== Illogical definition == |
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It says: |
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:The title comes from the Southern colloquialism "breaking bad", meaning to "raise hell" or turn to a life of crime. |
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"breaking bad" and "to 'raise hell' or turn to a life of crime" are different parts of speech. It does not make any grammatical sense to say that one means the other. Because I am unfamiliar with the expression "breaking bad", I do not know how best to fix it, but possibly the definition should instead say "'raising hell' or turning to a life of crime". [[Special:Contributions/86.141.248.157|86.141.248.157]] ([[User talk:86.141.248.157|talk]]) 00:43, 10 February 2019 (UTC) |
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== [[Los Pollos Hermanos]] == |
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I created an article for [[Los Pollos Hermanos]], since there's been real-life LPH restaurants as well.--[[User:Prisencolin|Prisencolin]] ([[User talk:Prisencolin|talk]]) |
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== Pages for Todd and Lydia? == |
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== Soft(ly)-spoken == |
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Every other main character from Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul has their own dedicated Wikipedia page, other than Todd Alquist and Lydia Rodarte-Quayle. Given that they have main cast billing like everyone else who has a page and are decently important to the story's developments, I think they should have pages of their own. That being said, I don't want to go and make one without consulting other Wikipedians first. [[Special:Contributions/109.234.179.37|109.234.179.37]] ([[User talk:109.234.179.37|talk]]) 19:25, 17 October 2022 (UTC) |
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Breaking_Bad&diff=next&oldid=953525194 This edit] changed "soft-spoken" to "softly-spoken". Yes, theoretically an adjective should be modified by an adverb, not by another adjective, but "soft-spoken" is widely used, and it's in my dictionary, while I've never heard "softly-spoken" (or seen it written, until now), and it isn't in my dictionary. I think the edit should be reverted. -- [[User:UKoch|UKoch]] ([[User talk:UKoch|talk]]) 14:14, 30 April 2020 (UTC) |
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:We need significant development and/or reception jnformation about them...just have starring positions doesn't assure that. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 20:23, 17 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:But there is "softly spoken". So either the hyphen should be deleted, or the edit should be reverted. -- [[User:UKoch|UKoch]] ([[User talk:UKoch|talk]]) 14:47, 30 April 2020 (UTC) |
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{{Talk:Breaking Bad/GA4}} |
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== Add Tess Harper to "Recurring Characters" == |
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::It's been reverted. [[User:Crimsonite~enwiki|Crimsonite~enwiki]] ([[User talk:Crimsonite~enwiki|talk]]) 16:33, 30 April 2020 (UTC) |
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: |
Actress Tess Harper played Diane Pinkman, Jesse's mother, per [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tess_Harper Wikipedia page]. --[[User:Threadbareparson|Threadbareparson]] ([[User talk:Threadbareparson|talk]]) 07:58, 24 July 2023 (UTC) |
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I created an article for Los Pollos Hermanos, since there's been real-life LPH restaurants as well.--Prisencolin (talk)
Inadequate explanation of title
[edit]According to Gilligan, the title is a Southern colloquialism meaning "to raise hell".
The phrase "breaking bad" apparently cannot mean "to raise hell" since it is the wrong part of speech. Additionally, Wiktionary defines the root phrase "break bad" as follows:
1. (colloquial, of an event or of one's fortunes) To go wrong; to go downhill.
2. (colloquial, especially Southern US and Midwestern US, of a person) To go bad; to turn toward immorality or crime.
This is substantially different from the idea of "raising hell" anyway.
Hopefully someone who is familiar with this expression can look at this. 2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:1AD:5274:51ED:10BC (talk) 20:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- The actual meaning shouldn't matter as Gilligan's interpretation is all that counts. If he thinks it means "to raise hell" and that's why he chose it for the show then that's just his misunderstaning. Perhaps a line could be added to say that this isn't the actual meaning of to break bad? FishandChipper 🐟🍟 09:07, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Misunderstanding the meaning of an expression is one thing; defining it in a grammatically impossible manner is a different level of error. Perhaps he thought it meant "raising hell"? 2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:F9D1:D8AF:1D14:8DE9 (talk) 00:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Nope, we have to go with what Gilligan said, even if he is grammatically wrong. Masem (t) 00:27, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Misunderstanding the meaning of an expression is one thing; defining it in a grammatically impossible manner is a different level of error. Perhaps he thought it meant "raising hell"? 2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:F9D1:D8AF:1D14:8DE9 (talk) 00:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Changes From Was to Is
[edit]Whomever decided to arbitrarily remove the dates (years of production) and also (apparently), decided to change description of past television shows from was to is without discussion and with some "secret or hidden" instructions not to change it back has literally sent searches away from Wikipedia and to other websites for searches to see if television shows are still in production. This has without a doubt been done without discussion within the PUBLIC Wikipedia community. So before changing it back, explain why you are doing so. I have come across dozens of these changes without any given reason except a coded invisible thing stating "do not change to was" 2600:1700:8A90:ECF0:C12B:82C:21EF:285E (talk) 06:02, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
- "Is" is correct and always has been. Please read WP:TVNOW. TV shows don't stop being a TV show just because they are complete; they still exist. You wouldn't refer to a film, novel, comic book, album, or any other piece of fiction or media as "was" once it's complete, so you wouldn't a TV series either. Drovethrughosts (talk) 12:07, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
- Unless all versions of the show have been destroyed and it was impossible to view it further, we treat all TV shows as existing in the present tense, across WP. See MOS:TENSE --Masem (t) 12:08, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Is this a "neo western"?
[edit]Ninety percent of this is Walter White at school, Walter White at home, Walter White drives his car somewhere. It hardly seems to be a "neo western" as in a latter-day version of Shane or Fistful of Dollars. Mains Olsen (talk) 10:21, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not sure you really watched the show. Those are pretty hyperbolic assertions of the show. You need to present a much more detailed analysis and supply much more actual evidence that contradicts the show's label as a "neo-western". Assertions like "Ninety percent of this..." isn't reliable information to go by in changing a key piece of the article's information. Provide more evidence and specificity. 168.26.153.205 (talk) 17:19, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
Pages for Todd and Lydia?
[edit]Every other main character from Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul has their own dedicated Wikipedia page, other than Todd Alquist and Lydia Rodarte-Quayle. Given that they have main cast billing like everyone else who has a page and are decently important to the story's developments, I think they should have pages of their own. That being said, I don't want to go and make one without consulting other Wikipedians first. 109.234.179.37 (talk) 19:25, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
- We need significant development and/or reception jnformation about them...just have starring positions doesn't assure that. Masem (t) 20:23, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
GA Review
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Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Breaking Bad/GA4. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs) 02:02, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Coming back to this after 9 years.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:02, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
- Is there any information on the casting process for the other actors available?
- Hank, in recovery, tracks Gale's death to Gus and the drug trade, so he plans to kill Hank Who is "he" in this sentence in the Season 4 recap?
- a remote turret and frees Jesse How does a turret kill anyone? Be more specific
- 206 TV experts? critics
- Needs info on syndication and home media releases
- Has the music used in the show been recognized in any way? How does it fit in thematically?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:55, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
- I'm failing this review because you have made no significant contributions to the article and have not notified the main contributors of the nomination so they could rectify any problems.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 15:59, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Done Did copyediting to fix bullet points #2 and #3. signed, Willondon (talk) 22:31, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Good to see. If you can address the remaining issues, feel free to ping me after you nominate it and I'll be quicker to get the review started.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 23:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Add Tess Harper to "Recurring Characters"
[edit]Actress Tess Harper played Diane Pinkman, Jesse's mother, per Wikipedia page. --Threadbareparson (talk) 07:58, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
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