Talk:Penang: Difference between revisions
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== Further improvements for GA status == |
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{{British-English}} |
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== Tourism == |
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This article can still be further improved for it to be of GA standard. Will get to it soon. In the meantime, any form of assistance or suggestions from editors are greatly appreciated. |
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"Penang was the venue for several blockbuster movies, such as Anna and the King and the French film Indochine." |
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Anna and the King was a box office flop. The word "historical" is more appropriate than "blockbuster". Indochine did well in the art-house market but not the mainstream market. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Adaml11600|Adaml11600]] ([[User talk:Adaml11600|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Adaml11600|contribs]]) 07:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Based on other articles on sub-division level territories, such as [[Hong Kong]], [[Sabah]] and [[Sarawak]], the content on NGOs, military installations, galleries and even the state's firsts are not an absolute requirement for a GA. [[User:Vnonymous|Vnonymous]] ([[User talk:Vnonymous|talk]]) 10:58, 2 March 2018 (UTC) |
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== Penang Island == |
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todo: make 2 diff. articles: Penang (state) and Penang Island |
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--[[User:Zenogantner|Zenogantner]] |
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== A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion == |
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: As it is now this article [[Penang]] is about the whole state, that includes the island and the Seberang Perai. Is there something only specific to Penang Island that you wanted to write, Zenogantner? -- [[User:Sabre23t|sabre23t]] 02:59, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC) |
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: |
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* [[commons:File:Chow Kon Yeow.jpg|Chow Kon Yeow.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2019-09-07T17:07:15.290379 | Chow Kon Yeow.jpg --> |
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Chow Kon Yeow.jpg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 17:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC) |
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== "international honour" section is mostly all bad == |
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== "Pearl of the Orient" == |
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"Pearl of the Orient" is controversal. |
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The title referred to [[Hong Kong]] for many years. |
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I wonder when it started to refer to Penang. |
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Can the poster quote some reference of this title? -- [[User:Kowloonese|Kowloonese]] 08:46, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC) |
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The "International honor and utilities" section is mostly, but not entirely, terrible. Most entries are low-effort tourist pablum list-of entries from random newspapers, websites, and magazines. These "list of places with the best street food" or "best places to retire that you've never heard of" listicles are throwaway filler that newspapers pad their pages with to sell travel ads. There's no honor to be had from being listed there, and none of these entries should be listed here. They are factually and encyclopedically worthless. But there's a few entries in this list that ''are'' notable - really the two UNESCO entries. That's all, really. And neither has a reference. I'm inclined to just remove all the rest, source the UNESCO ones, and I think the article would be entirely the better for it. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]]'''··–·'''[[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 20:02, 15 April 2022 (UTC) |
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: I didn't post that, but I've recently heard that on a Canadian TV travel show, which visited both Hong Kong and Penang (among other places). It did say the Pearl thing about Penang, but didn't mention Pearl about HK. But, Google does show that HK is the more famous Pearl: [http://www.googlefight.com/cgi-bin/compare.pl?q1=%22Pearl+of+the+Orient%22+%22Hong+Kong%22&q2=%22Pearl+of+the+Orient%22+%22Penang%22&B1=Make+a+fight%21&compare=1&langue=us 2,540 vs. 1,990 hits]. --[[User:Menchi|Menchi]] 20:43, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC) |
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== GA review invalidated == |
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:: Just for a note, Penang is often refer as oriental garden(东方花园) in chinese as used by many local chinese newspaper. However, the title of "Pearl of Orient" was seen in tourism brochure written in english. Since there is no further evidence, the origins of the title is unclear. |
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The GA review in 2018 was conducted by [[User:Semi-auto]], a sockpuppet of the nominator, [[User:Vnonymous]]. Because self-reviews of nominations are not allowed at GAN, the original review has been invalidated and the GA status stripped from the article. This does not prevent the article from being nominated again at some point in the future, and an independent GA review being conducted at that time. (Discussion about this was brought to ANI, and also at [[WT:GAN]].) [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 01:47, 17 April 2022 (UTC) |
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pearl of the orient has always been understood as the Philippines |
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== IPA needed? == |
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A Journal source from the literatures of ZAINAL AKHIRUDDIN DATUK HJ. ZAINAL ALAM: Penang was never "Pearl of the Orient". It was a British way of being proactive and having a sense of mission to develop the Island and to portray that they did some good architecture of Pulo Pinang (Penang). The Sultan of Kedah traded-in this deserted Island of 7 Achinese Family atap houses at Balik Pulau with some few Gujerat Merchants from India in Tanjungpura (Georgetown) in return for 'Armed Forces' strenght to protect Langkawi and his palace from Siamese invasion . . . Penang was never 'Beautiful' during colonial days, Zainal Akhiruddin stressed, "If the word 'beautiful' is to be mentioned of Penang, originally, it meant the white sandy beaches of Batu Ferringhi". |
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It looks like the oral spelling of Penang could be in different targets, some call it Pen-ang and some Pe(e)-nang. [[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 04:04, 20 September 2022 (UTC) |
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Actually, I would say its more of a literal translation from Malay dubbed Penang as 'Pulau Pinang Pulau Mutiara', thus the Pearl of the Orient, but I'd say its quite popular among the locals, just a matter of opinion and perception. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/60.50.27.170|60.50.27.170]] ([[User talk:60.50.27.170|talk]]) 11:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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{{Talk:Penang/GA2}} |
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:: http://books.google.com.my/books?id=oBYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA77&dq=penang+pearl+of+the+orient&hl=en&ei=OhoxTcWfCIOIrAe6ov3hCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBDgy#v=onepage&q=penang%20pearl%20of%20the%20orient&f=false |
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:: http://books.google.com.my/books?id=RDguAQAAIAAJ&q=penang+pearl+of+the+orient&dq=penang+pearl+of+the+orient&hl=en&ei=HxkxTc_kHofrrQfHpOW2CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAg |
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:: [[User:Yosri|Yosri]] ([[User talk:Yosri|talk]]) 03:56, 15 January 2011 (UTC) |
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== Etymology == |
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Anyone know the meaning of the word Penang? |
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In Chinese, Penang is referred to as the Island or city of "Bin Nang" (檳榔嶼 or 檳城) where "bin nang 檳榔" is a chinese transliteration of some kind of fruit [[Arecae catechu L.]] Was the fruit named after the island or vise verse? |
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[[User:Kowloonese|Kowloonese]] 08:46, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC) |
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: From the tree . Oxford says: 1883 I. L. BISHOP in ''Leisure Ho''. 202/2: "Pinang ('''from the pinang, or areca-palm''') is the proper name of the island." [emphasis added] --[[User:Menchi|Menchi]] 20:43, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC) |
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: The Areca Palm is commonly known as the Betel-nut Palm, hence Penang can also be translated Betelnut. [[User:Ptilinopus|Ptilinopus]] ([[User talk:Ptilinopus|talk]]) 07:10, 9 September 2015 (UTC) |
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== Penang is famous for ... == |
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''was "Just A Simple Question"''<br> |
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what EXACTLY is penang famous for...? like every state in Malaysia, it must be famous for something else except the nature in it... for example, langkawi is famous for it's chocolate... every trip to langkawi will end up in bags and bags of chocolate... so that leads to my question.. what is penang's fame? |
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:Washing powder. My Singaporean friends say it is cheaper in Penang. [[User:Andrew Yong|Andrew Yong]] 20:00, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
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:Penang [[Char Koay Teow]]. Penang Mamak [[Nasi Kandar]]. [[Pasembur]]. Yep, Penang food. ;-) -- [[User:Sabre23t|sabre23t]] 13:31, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
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:Alternately, have a look at this page of [http://www.penang.gov.my/epf.html Penang's First] for further ideas on what Penang is famous for. ;-) -- [[User:Sabre23t|sabre23t]] 13:38, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
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On clickpenang.com, '''Zainal Akhiruddin Datuk Hj. Zainal Alam''' says, '''"Nasi Kandar, in its original meaning, is a meal comprises of rice, fish curry, spiced roasted beef, and bolied egg with ladysfinger (bendi) all mixed in assortment on a single plate"''' check-out '''"Ais Kacang"''' at the same webforum on Penang and the ingenious '''"Device A Better Penang Rather Than An Ex-Pearl Of The Orient".''' |
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And don't forget Laksa Penang...Boeing. |
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Penang is famous for its diversity of people, which means it is also famous for the number of its cultural events (Malaysia as a whole has one of the highest numbers of public holidays anywhere in the world, and Penang takes full advantage), as well as its food (Malay specialities like laksa, popia, ice cendul, ice kecang, nasi kandar; a very wide variety Indian and Chinese foods, respectable number of European foods and , unfortunately, a growing number of fast food outlets). The island used to be famous for the quality of its water - best in Orient up until a few years ago ... unfortunately although the water remains good quality it's not like it used to be. |
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Lastly, re Langkawi, chocolates?? It's famous for the Gamat - a worm that,when split into two, can reassemble itself. Great healing properties obviously. It appears in Gamat Oil, Gamat cough mixture, etc. |
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Gamat is actually sea cucumber, not a worm.--[[User:Wai Hong|Wai Hong]] 13:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC) |
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== Separate Articles for Penang Island == |
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There are a number of subjects that can be written under the article "Penang Island" as distinct from Penang. For example, geographical features, a detailed description of the Island's culture and the residents' way of life can be added in the "Penang Island" article. However, aspects such as government and foreign trade should be retained under the "Penang" article. Hyperlinks and cross reference may be added for convenience. |
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[[User:Ac101|Cheng]] 12:26, 25 July 2005 (UTC) |
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When ONE speaks or write about PENANG, it means a focus on issues and matters relating to the ISLAND paradise. The mainland has little to talk about as it has limited attraction and historical factor (65% rural homes/5% modern residential/10% industrialization/10% commercial buildings/10% other slow developments. The Penang State Stadium at Batu Kawan is magnificient but a white elephant today in this tight budget years (perhaps suitable come year 2050) since it was expensively built for sake of stimulating the property value of the district. |
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[ref:forum.clickpenang.com](Ali)'''"The 7 blunders of Penang"; comment by Zainal Akhiruddin'''. |
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On Clickpenang.com You can also view pictures from the so called "Worlds Largest Toy Museum " |
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== Culture and economy == |
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This is poorly edited. Cuisine should be dealt with separately from Culture and Economy. The The article on Kelantan should be used as a guideline for the Penang article. |
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It deals with Culture and Economy separately. |
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== Technology and Industrial Development in Penang - Missing? == |
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Penang is the most advanced state within Malaysia in electronics manufacturing, industrial automation and mechanical industry. It is indeed the silicon valley in Malaysia. Should there be something to talk about? |
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== Penang bridge == |
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Can anyone confirm whether or whether not the plans to extend the first bridge are still ongoing now that the second bridge is planned [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] 14:31, 2 April 2006 (UTC) |
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The bridge extension is on going, and slated to complete by September 2008 (although we know that that's unlikely to finish on the date they say it will)[[User:Martianunlimited|Martianunlimtied]] |
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== Penang Free School == |
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Penang Free School was founded by Anglican Missionaries (Rev. Hutchings) not Catholic Missionaries. |
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== Lengthy article == |
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I think there should be a few new articles about certain aspects of Penang, such as places of interest,etc. Then, these articles should be linked to the Penang article[[User:Wai Hong|Wai Hong]] 12:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC) |
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== Pictures layout == |
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I do think that proper alignment of the pictures so that they fit nicely and neatly into the page is better than trying to put them alongside the write-up and making them look disorganized and out of alignment. Anyhow, the pictures should always be in the relevant categories. Any comments about a better layout? |
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I've tried to arrange the pictures. I hope it's ok. Besides, other contributors please recognise that spaces between the written material are for the purpose of picture alignment. --[[User:Wai Hong|Wai Hong]] 12:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC) |
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== South Channel == |
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I've created an aritcle for the channel separating Penang island from Seberang Perai. I think it's called South Channel. I translated it from the Malay ''Selat Selatan''. Are there any disagreements? |
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[[User:Wai Hong|Wai Hong]] 09:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:"Selat" translates into "Straits" so perhaps Southern Straits is a better translation. However, I feel as a geographic article, it is probably best to use the original name bar the existance of another, proper, English approximate. For example, [[Chao Praya]] river is known as that instead of "General River" or "River of the Kings" - so perhaps the very least, "Selatan Straits" is better. --[[User:Rajanr|Rajan Rishayakaran]] 06:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC) |
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== Highest population density? == |
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On "The state has the highest population density in Malaysia with 2,031.74 people per square kilometre on the island and 865.99 people per square kilometre on the mainland." - according to the [[Kuala Lumpur]] article, Kuala Lumpur has a population density of almost 3 times more than Penang. Something's inaccurate, either in this article or in Kuala Lumpur's. --[[User:Rajanr|Rajan Rishayakaran]] 06:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC) |
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* Maybe both are incorrect,we are going to need the latest census readings in order to articulate further on the matter. |
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*Actually Kuala Lumpur is not a state but rather a Federal Territory. Surely Kuala Lumpur is denser than Penang, but for states, Penang has the highest population density. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:MoZulWan|MoZulWan]] ([[User talk:MoZulWan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MoZulWan|contribs]]) 08:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Gross Regional Product == |
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What is gross regional product? Can anyone enlighten me on this?[[User:Wai Hong|Wai Hong]] 06:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC) |
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==Rate this article,please== |
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I found this article is getting better and better. Can someone assess this article, for a better rate class? or maybe we can get a GA or FA? Thank you[[User:Zack2007|Zack2007]] 15:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC) |
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:This looks like a good B to me. I'm an outsider here, but I reviewed the cities & countries for Version 0.5 so I've seen a lot of similar articles. I'd look at [[Singapore]] (GA) or [[Bangalore]] (FA) to see how things are handled with similar articles. Things to work on IMHO are: |
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*References/notes are VERY weak at the moment - compare [[Singapore]] - it would get an immediate rejection as GA or FA on those grounds. There are several external refs - these need to be listed as internal refs with proper citations. I personally like to see a mix of book and online refs. |
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*The culture section obviously needs expansion - that is a core subject in these types of articles. Things like architecture are nice but less critical, unless the architecture is unique as in [[Bath, Somerset|Bath]] (former FA). |
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*Be very careful with sections such as "Character of Penang" which ''may'' encapsulate how local people see themselves, or how Malaysian people generally perceive Penang, but there are serious problems with this type of thing. Any such description needs cited authoritative sources (for example, a major Malay newspaper, or a respected book about Penang or Malaysia), otherwise it becomes simply "people say" (speculation) or "The Penang Tourist Board say" (biased) - neither of which belongs in an encyclopedia. I would suggest merging the section into the new Culture section once that is written. |
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*Also be careful with sections labeled "trivia" or "references in popular culture," as these often snowball as every passing teenager starts adding in minor film stars from Penang, movie scenes shot there, etc. (See [[Steve Biko]] for an extreme example). Much of the "trivia" seems to be serious content that could be merged into the article. I think if you move the "references in popular culture" section into the "culture" section, that would help avoid that problem. I realise that places tend to be proud of these connections, but note that GAs and FAs (like Singapore and Bangalore) avoid such sections - with good reason. If it's in a separate "Culture of Penang" section anyone seriously researching references to Penang in pop songs etc will be able to find the content in the appropriate place. |
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:I think if you can fix the above, and clean up organisation a bit, the article has a good shot at GA or FA - there is a lot of good content here! Also, I saw this get accidentally added to Version 0.5 recently, so you may be interested to know - this article will almost certainly be included in Version 0.7. I specifically proposed including all Malaysian states when we began setting things up recently, and no objections were raised. [[User:Walkerma|Walkerma]] 06:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC) |
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I think the article still reads like one of the tourist brochures you can pick up at the airport <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Pirates Of Penang|Pirates Of Penang]] ([[User talk:Pirates Of Penang|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pirates Of Penang|contribs]]) 09:11, 7 October 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Removal of Chinese name == |
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For background, please see [[Talk:Kuching#Language]]. Basically, Chinese is not an official language of Malaysia, so by convention, we should not be using it in the article (otherwise, we have no objective standard for inclusion of alternative names - we might as well put the Swahili transliteration in as well). Jawi has a better claim because it is an alternative script for Malay, which is the official language of Malaysia. [[User:Johnleemk|Johnleemk]] | [[User talk:Johnleemk|Talk]] 12:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC) |
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I'm removing all languages other than English and native language, per [[WP:UE]]. [[User:Earth|__earth]] <sup>([[User talk:Earth|Talk]])</sup> 06:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC) |
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== Images Don't Appear in the Traditional Chinese Page == |
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HELP! Does anyone how to contact someone who could make the images in the Traditional Chinese Page to appear? |
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See the link below and click on the first search result. |
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Thank you! |
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[http://zh-yue.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=penang Penang in Traditional Chinese] |
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== Crime - no sources == |
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Today, April 13th, it was noted in the Malaysian daily tabloid The Sun that the Wikipedia article on Penang was basically bull. I checked it, and there are some bold statements that lack citation. I'm not exactly an experienced user (to put it mildly) so I just put some citation needed tags in there. [[User:Catxk|Catxk]] 12:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC) |
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I think that the article about Penang crime should be removed unless with exact source, or else the article should not be in here ([[User:KyoriAsh|KyoriAsh]] 03:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)) |
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:The [[The Sun (Malaysia)]] is basically ''kertas tandas'', quality-wise IMHO. Wikipedia is what its editors make of it. If there are citation and verification issues be [[WP:BOLD]] and fix it. --[[User:Eqdoktor|Eqdoktor]] 10:21, 10 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== World's Oldest Newspaper or Malaysia Oldest Newspaper? == |
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One thing I have to clearify first: I went to www.takungpao.com.hk and found nothing about the newspaper that established BEFORE Kwong Wah Yit Poh. Please stated the source please? ([[User:KyoriAsh|KyoriAsh]] 04:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)) |
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:Its most definitely NOT the oldest newspaper in the world, there are several papers that go all the way back to the 1600s and still printing - [http://www.wan-press.org/article2823.html Oldest newspapers still in circulation]. In Malaysia, [[New Straits Times]](1845) and [[The Malay Mail]](1896) are older. In Penang, I think the Straits Echo (defunct) may be older than 1910. Kwong Wah Yit Poh can only claim at best to be the oldest Chinese paper (still in circulation) in Malaysia.--[[User:Eqdoktor|Eqdoktor]] 10:16, 10 May 2007 (UTC) |
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::For the Topic, I missed the "Chinese", should be World's Oldest Chinese Language Newspaper... ([[User:KyoriAsh|KyoriAsh]] 17:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)) |
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== Wikiproject Malaysia == |
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Calling all Malaysian Wikipedians around the world!! It is high time for us to start our own WikiProject for Malaysia..any one can create/assiting me to create WikiProject Malaysia. [[User:Marcusaffleck|Marcusaffleck]] 11:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC) |
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== Map == |
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Map is not good - I didn't know there was such a thing as "Penang" and after looking at these maps I still cant tell where. I guess from the fact that its part of wikiproject malaysia and occupied by the Japanese that its close to them?[[User:Tourskin|Tourskin]] 01:31, 11 August 2007 (UTC) |
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== Trivia == |
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"Penang is the most geometrically rectangular country in the world." This is a boo boo... Penang is a state not a country. Please have this removed. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Adaml11600|Adaml11600]] ([[User talk:Adaml11600|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Adaml11600|contribs]]) 01:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Famous Penangnites == |
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SM Zainal Abidin Al-Haj : Educationist |
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Datuk Hj. Zainal Alam : Broadcaster |
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Zainal Akhiruddin : Management Facilitator |
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== Greater Metropolitan Area of Penang == |
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I have never heard of this term being used. Sounds like original research. A quick google search also reveals nothing, except this page and other mirrors. [[User:Kawaputra|<font color="#299">kawaputra</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Kawaputra|<font color="#678">torque</font>]]</sup> 11:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC) |
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== Language Confusion == |
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Your article states many languages but fails to state that the official language of Penang is the national language of Malaysia - bahasa Melayu! You'll find everyone can communicate in this language in Penang, all the government institutions use this language, and all the public signs are written in this language. |
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There is a large part of chinese cummunity that tries to ignore this language by using some chinese dialects, using chinese characters on displays etc., but in the end bahasa Melayu is the language that is compulsory at schools. |
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Other languages are local languages spoken by various groups. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/60.48.162.157|60.48.162.157]] ([[User talk:60.48.162.157|talk]]) 01:47, 2 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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I agree. Too much emphasis on unofficial chinese languages discriminating the offcial language in Penang and one that is spoken by nearly everyone. Also, if the section 'Religion' can state from the start that the official religion is Islam why the same can't be done in the language section starting with: the official language is Bahasa Melayu? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Homo hi|Homo hi]] ([[User talk:Homo hi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Homo hi|contribs]]) 12:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== [[Penang Botanic Gardens]] == |
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Greetings from a damp & cold England. I am currently putting together an article on the [[Penang Botanic Gardens]], as well as one on its first superintendent, [[Charles Curtis (botanist)|Charles Curtis]]. Unfortunately, I am unable to find any free use photographs of the gardens and its flora & fauna which would improve the article. Can someone upload some suitable photos and let me know so that I can incorporate them. Cheers. --[[User:Daemonic Kangaroo|Daemonic Kangaroo]] ([[User talk:Daemonic Kangaroo|talk]]) 12:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC) |
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== [[Demography]] == |
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"It is also the only non-Malay dominated state in Malaysia." |
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- This is so untrue. Sabah and Sarawak are both non-Malay dominated state. Unless you're referring to Bumiputera, than it is acceptable. Please learn to be Malaysian, guys. Malaysia is not only Peninsular Malaysia. Not all Bumiputera are Malays. Got it? |
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[[User:Pinangjawa|Pinangjawa]] ([[User talk:Pinangjawa|talk]]) 17:48, 28 September 2009 (UTC) |
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:I agree. I think this statement should be removed [[User:Twy1|Twy1]] ([[User talk:Twy1|talk]]) 04:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC) |
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== Religion == |
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In Penang, non-Malays are majority. So, it is improbable that Islam is the majority religion.[[User:Seethakathi|Seethakathi]] ([[User talk:Seethakathi|talk]]) 06:26, 7 January 2011 (UTC) |
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==File:Loh-guan-lye-new-wing.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion== |
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| An image used in this article, [[commons:File:Loh-guan-lye-new-wing.jpg|File:Loh-guan-lye-new-wing.jpg]], has been nominated for speedy deletion at [[Wikimedia Commons]] for the following reason: ''Copyright violations'' |
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| Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so ([[commons:COM:SPEEDY]] has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. |
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''This notification is provided by a Bot'' --[[User:CommonsNotificationBot|CommonsNotificationBot]] ([[User talk:CommonsNotificationBot|talk]]) 15:19, 22 July 2011 (UTC) |
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== Awards & Recognitions == |
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A new editor has added this section 3 times, entirely unreferenced. I've mentioned on his talk page: [[User_talk:Ginson Lim]] that even if referenced, it is probably [[WP:UNDUE]], and contrary to [[WP:TRIVIA]]. Possibly a couple of the items are worth a mention, but some are certainly trivial. An entirely unreferenced section is not acceptable. Whatever is added will certainly need a proper source. Since I have removed it twice, I will not do so again - I'll leave it to consensus here to decide what to do with it. Thanks. <span style="font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#000;">[[User:Begoon|<span style="color:#0645AD;">Begoon</span>]] [[User talk:Begoon|<span style="color:gray;"><sup>talk</sup></span>]]</span> 15:40, 30 September 2014 (UTC) |
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Ok, since it's been 4 days, and Ginson Lim hasn't commented, and there have been no other replies, I'm removing the section again. As I say, it's entirely unsourced, and full of trivia, so I don't think it should be left in indefinitely. If anyone wants to source any of it and reintroduce those parts, then please do. Thanks. <span style="font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#000;">[[User:Begoon|<span style="color:#0645AD;">Begoon</span>]] [[User talk:Begoon|<span style="color:gray;"><sup>talk</sup></span>]]</span> 13:08, 4 October 2014 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just added archive links to {{plural:7|one external link|7 external links}} on [[Penang]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=678310040 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120316160746/http://www.scipub.org/fulltext/ajes/ajes24121-128.pdf to http://www.scipub.org/fulltext/ajes/ajes24121-128.pdf |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120131071722/http://rihlah.nl.sg:80/Paper/Abdur-Razzaq%20Lubis.pdf to http://rihlah.nl.sg/Paper/Abdur-Razzaq%20Lubis.pdf |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20111107230652/http://www.nst.com.my/nst/articles/3jew/Article to http://www.nst.com.my/nst/articles/3jew/Article/ |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20101224100630/http://www.theactorsstudio.com.my:80/past-venues/green-hall-penang-seating-and-pictures/ to http://www.theactorsstudio.com.my/past-venues/green-hall-penang-seating-and-pictures/ |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110929115400/http://cipa.icomos.org/text%20files/antalya/25.pdf to http://cipa.icomos.org/text%20files/antalya/25.pdf |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100817061447/http://www.usm.my:80/bi/main.asp?tag=sejarah to http://www.usm.my/bi/main.asp?tag=sejarah |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110718094132/http://www.wdm.org.uk/campaigns/aid/casestudies/malaysia.htm to http://www.wdm.org.uk/campaigns/aid/casestudies/malaysia.htm |
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== External links modified == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Penang]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=707246286 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110830162733/http://terence-ang.blogspot.com/2010/11/birding-in-penang-part-one-migratory.html to http://terence-ang.blogspot.com/2010/11/birding-in-penang-part-one-migratory.html |
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== External links modified == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Penang]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=707941379 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110830162733/http://terence-ang.blogspot.com/2010/11/birding-in-penang-part-one-migratory.html to http://terence-ang.blogspot.com/2010/11/birding-in-penang-part-one-migratory.html |
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== External links modified == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just modified {{plural:9|one external link|9 external links}} on [[Penang]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=739253154 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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*Corrected formatting/usage for https://penangstory.net.my/docs/Abs-PaulHKratoska.doc |
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*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gcis&lng=en&dat=32&geo=-152&srt=npan&col=aohdq&va=&pt=a |
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*Corrected formatting/usage for https://penangstory.net.my/docs/Abs-PaulHKratoska.doc |
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== External links modified == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just modified 46 external links on [[Penang]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=781374675 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110708202650/http://www.statistics.gov.my/ccount12/click.php?id=2127 to http://www.statistics.gov.my/ccount12/click.php?id=2127 |
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. |
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Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 21:13, 20 May 2017 (UTC) |
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== Two sections on cuisine == |
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Shouldn't there just be one? |
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[[User:Holland85|Holland85]] ([[User talk:Holland85|talk]]) 05:32, 5 September 2017 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 14:52, 7 May 2024
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Penang article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Penang has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: May 1, 2024. (Reviewed version). |
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on August 11, 2007, August 11, 2011, August 11, 2012, August 11, 2014, and August 11, 2015. |
Further improvements for GA status
[edit]This article can still be further improved for it to be of GA standard. Will get to it soon. In the meantime, any form of assistance or suggestions from editors are greatly appreciated.
Based on other articles on sub-division level territories, such as Hong Kong, Sabah and Sarawak, the content on NGOs, military installations, galleries and even the state's firsts are not an absolute requirement for a GA. Vnonymous (talk) 10:58, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
[edit]The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
"international honour" section is mostly all bad
[edit]The "International honor and utilities" section is mostly, but not entirely, terrible. Most entries are low-effort tourist pablum list-of entries from random newspapers, websites, and magazines. These "list of places with the best street food" or "best places to retire that you've never heard of" listicles are throwaway filler that newspapers pad their pages with to sell travel ads. There's no honor to be had from being listed there, and none of these entries should be listed here. They are factually and encyclopedically worthless. But there's a few entries in this list that are notable - really the two UNESCO entries. That's all, really. And neither has a reference. I'm inclined to just remove all the rest, source the UNESCO ones, and I think the article would be entirely the better for it. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 20:02, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
GA review invalidated
[edit]The GA review in 2018 was conducted by User:Semi-auto, a sockpuppet of the nominator, User:Vnonymous. Because self-reviews of nominations are not allowed at GAN, the original review has been invalidated and the GA status stripped from the article. This does not prevent the article from being nominated again at some point in the future, and an independent GA review being conducted at that time. (Discussion about this was brought to ANI, and also at WT:GAN.) BlueMoonset (talk) 01:47, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
IPA needed?
[edit]It looks like the oral spelling of Penang could be in different targets, some call it Pen-ang and some Pe(e)-nang. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:04, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
GA Review
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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- This review is transcluded from Talk:Penang/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: HundenvonPenang (talk · contribs)
Reviewer: ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 09:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC) Reviewing per request. I hope I'll have enough time to look thoroughly.
Preliminary spot checks
[edit]- I'm unsure about the copyright status of the flag and insignia. They seem to be copyrighted under Malaysian law.
- The Commons file appears to be in public domain. There is the Malaysian Copyright Act 1987, but flags of subnational divisions (states and federal territories) are exempt (having gone through the Commons files for other such flags). hundenvonPG (talk) 12:49, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- I checked with a few others. Malaysian government works are only copyrighted for 50 years, so by now any copyright of these two should have long expired. Though the new insignia is from 1988... unless it's considered a derivative of the original...--ZKang123 (talk) 13:34, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Quite possibly, seeing the heraldry being largely similar to the flag (though I'm no legal expert). The other thing was, by comparison, the insignias for Sabah and Sarawak, and the Federal Territories flag were adopted after 1987 (much more recent theoretically-speaking, but most likely they are in public use in a similar sense, hence them being in Commons). hundenvonPG (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Earwig showed no immediate issues.
Lead
[edit]- "on the northwest coast of Peninsular Malaysia, by the Malacca Strait." -> "along the Malacca Strait" and remove comma.
- "RM451 billion" -> Include Template:ToUSD value.
- Fixed Added template in sentence. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:49, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- "primarily through the Penang International Airport, the nation's third busiest." I find this statement a little unclear. Do you mean like goods imported/exported through the airport? Also busiest in terms of what?
- Fixed Thanks for pointing out the oversight. In actual fact, PIA is third busiest in passenger traffic. Rewritten as such: "primarily through the Penang International Airport which is also the nation's third busiest in passenger traffic" hundenvonPG (talk) 12:49, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 09:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hey ZKang123. Glad to see your feedback. Will be making amendments as we go along. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:49, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
History
[edit]- I say the "Prehistory" and "Early history" sections are short enough to be merged under "Early history".
- Fixed Concurred. Each was just a para long. Merged both under "Early history". hundenvonPG (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- "The Cherok Tok Kun megalith, uncovered at Bukit Mertajam in 1845, features Pali inscriptions that suggest the Hindu-Buddhist Bujang Valley civilisation, which was based in present-day Kedah, had established its authority over certain parts of Seberang Perai by the 6th century."
- I felt this chunk should be rewritten to focus more on the fact that the civilisation had authority on the island. Like: "Pali inscriptions on the Cherok Tok Kun megalith suggest the Hindu-Buddhist Bujang Valley civilisation, which was based in present-day Kedah, had authority over certain parts of Seberang Perai by the 6th century."
- Fixed Rewritten as per suggestion to put focus on the mainland being part of Bujang Valley. Though there isn't archaeological evidence of the island coming under that civilisation. hundenvonPG (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- I felt this chunk should be rewritten to focus more on the fact that the civilisation had authority on the island. Like: "Pali inscriptions on the Cherok Tok Kun megalith suggest the Hindu-Buddhist Bujang Valley civilisation, which was based in present-day Kedah, had authority over certain parts of Seberang Perai by the 6th century."
- Is it known why even after independence, Malaysia still maintains the annual payments? Seems like a future rabbit hole of research... Especially I heard about disputes between Kedah and Penang.
- To my knowledge, this is rather opaque. I haven't come across publications touching on the "why". Only that the payments continue to this day (they are made by the federal government, not the Penang state government). On another note, it has inflamed relations between the two states (Kedah persistently demanding larger annual payments and laying claim on Penang, which in the current political climate is easily turned into "ammunition" by the opposing parties governing both states). hundenvonPG (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- "taking maritime trade from Dutch posts in the region" – "diverting maritime commerce away from Dutch outposts in the area."
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- "By 1808, a local government for George Town was in place, whilst the establishment of the Supreme Court of Penang marked the birth of Malaysia's modern judiciary." – "By 1808, George Town had established its local government, while the founding of the Supreme Court of Penang marked the birth of Malaysia's modern judiciary."
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- "In 1826, Penang, Singapore and Malacca were incorporated into the Straits Settlements, with George Town as the capital. However, Singapore soon supplanted George Town as Southeast Asia's premier entrepôt. In 1832, Singapore replaced George Town as the capital of the Straits Settlements."
- Suggest shortening and merging this part to the previous paragraph (or the latter paragraph).
- "In 1826, Penang was the capital of the Straits Settlements which included Singapore and Malacca. As Singapore soon supplanted George Town as the region's premier entrepôt, Singapore became the capital instead in 1832."
- Fixed Rephrased and merged with previous para as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- "The population growth also created social problems, such as inadequate sanitation and health facilities, as well as rampant crime, with the latter culminating in street violence and rioting in 1867."
- "However, the population growth created social problems such as inadequate sanitation, health facilities, and rampant crime, culminating in street violence and rioting in 1867."
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- "However, the population growth created social problems such as inadequate sanitation, health facilities, and rampant crime, culminating in street violence and rioting in 1867."
- "Sun, in particular, chose George Town as the headquarters for the Tongmenghui in Southeast Asia". I don't think the rest of the sentence is as relevant in the scope of this article. But I would elaborate a bit of how the Tongmenghui was an anti-Qing republican organisation, and add when Sun chose George Town as headquarters.
- Fixed Point taken. Rewritten sentence, making it succinct and more towards Tongmenghui's role in overthrowing the Qing dynasty. hundenvonPG (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 13:19, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- For ref 51, is there a better source to attribute to the sentence about Penang's involvement in WW1?
- Fixed Concurred. Replaced with Andrew Barber's cite. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- "on 19 December 1941, after suffering days of aerial attacks." "on 19 December 1941 after daily aerial attacks."
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- "was put to use as a major submarine base" – "was converted/reused/used as a..."
- Fixed Rephrased to "converted". hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- "After Japan's surrender, British marines launched Operation Jurist on 3 September 1945 to retake Penang Island, making George Town the first settlement in Malaya to be liberated from the Japanese."
- This sentence is a bit odd; I understand it's more of the British reassuming control from the Japanese government.
- "Following Japan's surrender, George Town was the first Malayan settlement liberated by British marines through Operation Jurist on 3 September 1945."
- Fixed Rephrased similarly. Though according to Barber's book, British forces that participated were still uncertain at that point (days after the surrender) if the Japanese would put up resistance. The marines were to call in naval gun support if resistance was encountered, only to find a disciplined Japanese handover upon landing. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Also ref 52 "Barber, Andrew (2010). Penang At War : A History of Penang During and Between the First and Second World Wars 1914–1945. AB&B. ISBN 9789834337230." – it would further benefit if you are able to provide the page numbers through inline citations.
- Fixed As per below. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- "This made George Town the first city within the Federation of Malaya, and by extension, Malaysia. " – This sentence requires attribution
- Fixed Shifted citation from Wong to the end of the sentence. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- "George Town was a free port since colonial times, but its status was rescinded by the Malaysian federal government in 1969." – "George Town's status as a free port was rescinded by the..."
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- "the then Chief Minister Lim Chong Eu " – Remove "the then"
- Similarly for ref 49 "Daniel Goh, P. S. (2014). "Between History and Heritage: Post-Colonialism, Globalisation, and the Remaking of Malacca, Penang and Singapore" (PDF). Trans-Regional and -National Studies of Southeast Asia.", please also provide page numbers to the various attributions.
- In fact I say most of the book sources used throughout the article needs page numbers.
- Fixed As per below. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- "masterminded the creation of" – would just say "established"
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- "However, persistent brain drain, exacerbated by federal policies that favoured the development of Kuala Lumpur, meant that Penang was no longer at the forefront of the country's economy by the 21st century.[49][67] This, coupled with the deteriorating state of affairs in general, such as incoherent urban planning, poor traffic management and the dilapidation of George Town's heritage enclave due to the repeal of the Rent Control Act in 2001, led to simmering discontent within Penang's society"
- "Persistent brain drain, aggravated by federal policies prioritizing the growth of Kuala Lumpur, resulted in Penang losing its leading position in the national economy by the 21st century. This decline, compounded by various issues including incoherent urban planning, poor traffic management and the dilapidation of George Town's historic district following the repeal of the Rent Control Act in 2001, contributed to growing dissatisfaction within Penang society."
- Fixed Sounds good. Rewritten para. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- For the paragraph: "In response, George Town's civil societies..." reword to: "In response, civil societies in George Town mobilized public support to rejuvenate the city. Resentment against the Barisan Nasional (BN) administration led to the Pakatan Rakyat bloc (now Pakatan Harapan) rising to power through the 2008 state elections. Efforts to preserve George Town's heritage architecture led to the city's historical core being designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2008/that year."
- Fixed Likewise, rewritten para. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Any further history since 2008?
- In terms of pivotal events, not much. From this resident's perspective, it's more of a period of economic growth and stability; 2008 was the last watershed moment. Penang didn't experience the kind of political turbulence that affected many other states following the 2020–2022 Malaysian political crisis. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
More to come for the subsequent sections. Please bear in mind to provide page numbers for book sources.--ZKang123 (talk) 05:24, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Fixed Thanks for pointing out too. I've revamped book citations accordingly, with pages added. Do let me know if there is any that needs more tweaking. hundenvonPG (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Geography
[edit]Continued.
- Penang is the second smallest state in Malaysia by size after Perlis, with a total land area of just 1,049 km2 (405 sq mi).
- Reword to: With a total land area of only 1,049 km2 (405 sq mi), Penang is the second smallest state in Malaysia after Perlis.
- Fixed Rewritten as suggested. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Reword to: With a total land area of only 1,049 km2 (405 sq mi), Penang is the second smallest state in Malaysia after Perlis.
- I think it will be better to cite the various land area data from the Malaysia government website or state government.
- Fixed Citations from Penang Institute and the National University of Malaysia added to land area data. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- "The state is
roughlydivided by the Penang Strait, whichmeasuresis onlya mere3 km (1.9 mi) wide at the narrowest point."- Given Penang Island is 295 km2 and Seberang Perai is 748 km2, I won't say "roughly divided", as it quite implies they are almost nicely divided (400 and 600).
- Fixed Point taken. Rewritten as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Might also add a fact on the strait "widest point". I think whats important is to highlight like the average width of the Strait.
- Fixed Data on the strait is scarce, but there is a source on its largest width. "Widest point" info added into the sentence with the citation. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Given Penang Island is 295 km2 and Seberang Perai is 748 km2, I won't say "roughly divided", as it quite implies they are almost nicely divided (400 and 600).
- "On the other hand, the city of Seberang Perai covers the whole mainland half of Penang."
- Eh, from the map below, Seberang Perai seems to cover only a bit of the mainland half... Also I need the exact page number of ref 84.
- Fixed Page number added for ref 84. It's more of a graphical representation though, not an actual map. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Seberang Perai indeed covers the whole mainland portion, though I haven't had an idea to really depict it on the map (aside from maybe enlarging the font?). There isn't like a method to make curved labels on WP pushpin maps, for example. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Eh, from the map below, Seberang Perai seems to cover only a bit of the mainland half... Also I need the exact page number of ref 84.
- "The capital city of George Town encompasses the entirety of Penang Island"
- Similarly I would at most say along the west coast of Penang Island... Also "capital city" -> "state capital"
- Fixed Rephrased to "state capital". Although de facto, George Town as an administrative unit/city does cover the whole island and the surrounding islets. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Similarly I would at most say along the west coast of Penang Island... Also "capital city" -> "state capital"
- "within the state" – "of the state"
- Fixed Rephrased likewise. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- ", land reclamation projects have been undertaken at high-demand areas." such as? Also it would help to indicate such areas on a map.
- Fixed Added "particularly along the island's east coast" into the sentence, as per the two citations. While much of the areas where reclamation was carried out weren't explicitly stated, two stood out: Seri Tanjung Pinang and Andaman Island. In the map, the former is too close to Tanjong Tokong and may make both labels less legible, but Andaman Island has been indicated. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- "Penang features" – "Penang has"
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- " a tropical rainforest climate, under the" – remove comma
- I don't think that table indicating Temperature (day), (night) etc is necessary. Also the climate chart basically repeats the same information.
- Fixed Concurred. Removeed both the table and the chart. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- "The central hills of Penang Island, including Penang Hill, are an important green lung for George Town." – not sure if its from the source. The word "green lung" sounds rather promotional.
- Fixed Agreed with this too. Removed prose. hundenvonPG (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 12:31, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
Governance and politics
[edit]- I don't see much problems with this section. Rather well-written.
- "based primarily on commerce and trade, rather than agriculture" – remove comma
- Fixed hundenvonPG (talk) 10:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Since the 2008 state election, the DAP, part of the ruling Pakatan Harapan (PH) coalition, has been the single largest party in the state's legislature, thereby holding the position of the head of government." – this last part should have a citation. Tbh, this sentence doesn't make as much sense; a party cannot hold the position of the head of government.
- Fixed Noted on this. Removed prose entirely, as there isn't any restriction on whichever party (from within any coalition) appointed to lead the government. hundenvonPG (talk) 10:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm unsure of the use of "far right" to describe PN.
- Fixed In fact, PN (and its major component PAS) has been described either as "far right", "right wing" or "moving to the far right" by The Diplomat, The Edge and James Chai at ISEAS. The degree of how far right that coalition is may be ambigious, but certainly their consistent right-wing ethnocentric agenda isn't. Replaced "far right" with "right wing". hundenvonPG (talk) 10:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think the small table of the percentage of party seats is unnecessary.
- Fixed Agreed. Table removed. hundenvonPG (talk) 10:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- "After Pakatan Rakyat (predecessor to the present-day Pakatan Harapan) was voted into power in 2008" – no need the bracketed portion since it was explained earlier.
- Fixed Removed prose in parentheses. hundenvonPG (talk) 10:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Moreover, George Town is twinned with five sister cities and six friendship cities, while Seberang Perai has formed partnerships with one sister city and one friendship city. " – needs citation
- Fixed This was actually based on the list of sister cities within the respective city articles, but point taken. Removed sentence. hundenvonPG (talk) 10:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Demographics
[edit]- Suggest splitting the first sentence.
- "Penang, with a population of 1,740,405 as of 2020" – "As of 2020, the population of Penang was 1,740,405."
- "has the highest population density of all Malaysian states (excluding the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur and Putrajaya), at 1,659/km2 (4,300/sq mi)." – "With a population density of 1,659/km2 (4,300/sq mi), Penang has the highest population density of all Malaysian states."
- I might exclude the mention of the Federal Territories since from my understanding they aren't exactly states right?
- Fixed Concurred. Sentence split as per suggestion and Federal Territories omitted; technically the FT aren't states to begin with. hundenvonPG (talk) 10:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Due to its more compact land area, the city's population density of 2,595.8/km2 (6,723/sq mi) was double that of Seberang Perai." – need citation
- Also "Due to its more compact land area, George Town has twice the population density of Seberang Perai at [value]"
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion and shifted census citation to the end of the sentence. hundenvonPG (talk) 10:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also "Due to its more compact land area, George Town has twice the population density of Seberang Perai at [value]"
. More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 03:11, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- "while ethnic Indians made up nearly 9% of the state's populace." – "of the state's populace" is unnecessary.
- Fixed Removed "of the state's populace" hundenvonPG (talk) 03:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- "remains a Chinese-majority city with over half of its population being Chinese as of 2020." – "with over half of its population being Chinese" I felt like already saying George Town is Chinese-majority quite implies that fact. Unless you give a firm percentage.
- Fixed Noted on this. Trimmed down sentence as such: "Chinese comprised over 51% of George Town's population". hundenvonPG (talk) 03:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Btw for the language subsection, does the Penang state constitution state the official language(s)? Might mention it first.
- Fixed As per below. Interesting side note: the online copy of the constitution is in both Malay & English. hundenvonPG (talk) 03:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- "where the major languages commonly in use..." – "where Malay, English, Hokkien, Mandarin and Tamil are widely spoken."
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion hundenvonPG (talk) 03:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- "encouraged its use among some within the Chinese and Indian" – "encouraged its adoption by the Chinese and Indian..."
- Fixed Ditto, rephrased. hundenvonPG (talk) 03:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oh I see that Malay as the official language shown later. I would suggest talking about the status of the Malay language as the official state language first in this language subsection, then mention the other major languages spoken.
- Fixed Moved prose on the status of Malay to the second para in the section, ahead of the other languages. hundenvonPG (talk) 03:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- "to have set up a dedicated department" – "to have a dedicated department."
- Fixed Rephrased too. hundenvonPG (talk) 03:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- " is a prime example of the peaceful coexistence of various religions in Penang." – This part is rather unecyclopedic. I think it's fine to mention Phil Street as where many various places of worship are located, however, and I will keep the street's nickname. Suggest rephrasing
- Fixed Point taken; sentence sounded quite odd at first. Trimmed down sentence: "... houses multiple places of worship belonging to Muslim, Taoist, Hindu and Christian communities, all located in close proximity to each other". hundenvonPG (talk) 03:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 02:14, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- "formed the Penang Harmony Corporation as a means to further enhance" – remove "as a means"
- Fixed "as a means" removed hundenvonPG (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Economy
[edit]- "tiny size" -> small size
- Fixed hundenvonPG (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Add ToUSD values for all RM currency mentions
- Fixed hundenvonPG (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- "second highest among Malaysian states" – I'm guessing number one goes to Sarawak?
- Yes, in terms of states (FTs excluded), Sarawak is the highest. Trimmed sentences to just "the second highest among Malaysian states after Sarawak". hundenvonPG (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- "was a time when George Town" - no need "a time"
- Fixed Removed "a time" hundenvonPG (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Under Lim's leadership" – also suggest deleting. I think its clear the developments were under his tenure.
- Fixed Removed "Under Lim's leadership" hundenvonPG (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- "The state's gold and jewellery industry originates from the founding of the Penang Goldsmith Association in 1832. Jewellery from Penang is exported to over 20 foreign markets, including Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, Canada and the United States. " – sentence needs citation.
- Fixed Moved attributed 'The Star' citation to the end of sentence. hundenvonPG (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- " influential personalities" – "important people"
- Fixed Rephrased as per suggestion hundenvonPG (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think the mining and agriculture subsections can just be merged into the manufacturing subsection.
- Fixed Removed mining and agriculture subsections, as they're at most just two to three sentences long; GDP-wise, their share is dwarfed by services and manufacturing. hundenvonPG (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 05:45, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Sorry if I haven't been getting back to this; I have other things on my plate at the moment.--ZKang123 (talk) 02:33, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- No worries. Feel free to circle back whenever it's convenient. hundenvonPG (talk) 04:37, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Culture
[edit]- "throughout any given year." – throughout the year.
- Fixed hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "including but not limited to" - "but not limited to" is unnecessary
- Fixed Removed "but not limited to" hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- ", in particular," – also remove
- Fixed Removed hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Are there also special Eid al-Fitri celebrations in Penang for the Malay population, or CNY more focussed given Penang is more Chinese-majority?
- To my knowledge, Eid al-Fitri in Penang is rather similar to the west coast of Peninsular Malaysia, at least in customs. Open houses, Ramadan markets, etc, none that are distinct compared to the other states. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "to bag the international Literary Festival Award " – "to achieve the..."
- Fixed hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Would also mention Chingay in the festivals as well. Actually I think the entire mention of Chingay could be shifted to the previous section on festivals.
- Fixed Concur, although Chingay parades in Penang are on a smaller scale, I believe, compared to that in Singapore. Still it involves significant road closures and (from my observation) attracts quite a crowd yearly. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "George Town is the birthplace of a distinct form of the Chingay procession. Introduced in 1919, Penang's variant of Chingay includes the act of balancing gigantic flags on one's head or hands." – I think this could be further concise into "George Town is credited as the origin of a unique form of the Chingay procession in Penang, which involves participants balancing oversized flags on their heads or hands."
- Fixed Paraphrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Performing arts and street art could be merged under arts. Also, any further mention of museums and/or some art council for Penang? And also Penang literature? Theatre? Especially Wayang Kulit and so on?
- Fixed Merged performing and street arts into a single section. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- On other aspects of culture:
- The state museum is the main museum in Penang. There are also a few privately-owned museums elsewhere, but it appears there isn't much in sources to further expand on the subject of museums other than a listing. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Fixed For literature, sources are quite limited, but I've added a para on Penang's role as a translation hub. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Fixed Theatre has been covered under the 'arts' section; Penang is the birthplace of both Bangsawan and boria. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- On other aspects of culture:
- Fixed Merged performing and street arts into a single section. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "In spite of its small size" – "Despite its..."
- Fixed hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Education, Healthcare
[edit]- "standing at 99.5% as of 2014." – Any recent update on this statistic?
- Only that UN source. Literacy statistics by states are hard to come by, and not even available in DOSM publications. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Also remove "As of 2020".
- Fixed Removed hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps can elaborate little more on Penang's education system? For example, what is the subject of instruction, or depending on the language-school medium? Does Penang have a Ministry of Education as well?
- Penang doesn't have a ministry for education. Education is under the jurisdiction of the federal government and as such, the education system throughout the country is highly standardised. On the topic of education within Penang, the only aspects that could be highlighted would be the distinctions, ie home to some of the oldest schools in the country. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- For healthcare, compared to other Malaysian states, is it stated if Penang has the best quality of life? What's its ranking?
- DOSM did produce a "Malaysian Well-being Index" at one point to measure quality of life, but there isn't any state level statistics either ([1]) hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Might also mention HIV, obesity rates and immunisation if any information can be found.
- Fixed Added a sentence on obesity rates with attribution. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Media
[edit]- "was once the nucleus of Malaysia's print press." – according to whom? Seems "nucleus" is directly quoted, or otherwise please rephrase.
- Fixed Rephrased to "hub" hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Actually the media section could be shifted under "culture", like Singapore does.
- Fixed Moved the media section to under 'culture'. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Any details about data connectivity in Penang?- I see it's covered under the Utilities section.
- Perhaps also mention about press freedom in Penang if there's any commentary about it.
- Fixed Added a sentence & attributions on Penang's press freedom under the British. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Transport
[edit]- I believe this section should be shifted after the geography section
- Fixed Moved transport section to after 'geography' hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "George Town is physically connected to mainland Seberang Perai" – I would say "Penang Island is physically connected to..."
- Fixed Changed to "Penang Island" hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "The city's first tram system, originally powered by steam, began operations in the 1880s.[299] Although trams became obsolete by 1936" – combine the latter sentence to the former.
- Fixed Combined both sentences as such: "... but trams became obsolete by 1936" hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "another colonial legacy, the trishaw, still plies the city's streets, albeit catering primarily for tourists." – "The trishaw from the colonial era still plies the city's streets, catering primarily to tourists"
- Fixed Paraphrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- There needs to be a citation for the Penang Hill Railway
- Fixed Citation added. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "public bicycle-sharing service, with " – remove comma
- Fixed hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Utilities
[edit]- Would also shift this after the geography section before the transport section
- Fixed Moved utilities section to before 'transport' hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Might mention about water demand in Penang.
- Fixed Added in prose & citation about water demand. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "However, it is heavily dependent on one single raw water resource – the Muda River, which forms the northern border between Seberang Perai and Kedah, and provides over 80% of Penang's water supply." – "However, over 80% of Penang's water supply comes from the Muda River, which forms the northern border between Seberang Perai and Kedah."
- Fixed Paraphrased as per suggestion, without "however". hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- "as well as incessant political disputes " – "and constant political disputes"
- Fixed Paraphrased as per suggestion. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Penang doesn't have a desalination plant or reservoirs? Penang is really unlike Singapore on dealing with water supply and more dependent on other states.
- Penang does have a handful of reservoirs (mentioned in the section) that act as a reserve in the case of disruption. But apart from that, it doesn't have an alternative supply (admittedly this is one area where Penang should've done better; Singapore's story could've been a case study, but so far, I haven't seen the state authorities going in that direction). hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Anything about sanitation and recycling?
- Fixed Added a para on waste management/recycling. Sanitation is standardised throughout the country under Indah Water and I don't have much to go on regarding that. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Many thanks ZKang123 for the thorough review. Pretty sure all points have been addressed, but feel free to add on if there's any I misssed. hundenvonPG (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Ok almost there. Just going over the recent changes and remarks. I think it's also fine to mention that Penang's education system is the same as the federal level, saying that education in Penang is under the purview of the federal government. Also, are you sure reservoirs are mentioned in the utilities section or in the article at all? Cos I don't find it.
- Overall the edits are good. Just a little more.--ZKang123 (talk) 13:28, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks I've just expanded on education being under federal jurisdiction, with some elaboration.
- And yes, the reservoirs are mentioned under 'utilities':
- "To counter water supply disruptions, PBAPP has contingency plans in place to draw water from alternative sources such as Ayer Itam Dam, Teluk Bahang Dam and Mengkuang Dam". hundenvonPG (talk) 14:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Overall
[edit]GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not) |
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Overall: |
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That's all for me. Putting on hold as concerns are being addressed.--ZKang123 (talk) 07:13, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Satisfied with all changes. Passed--ZKang123 (talk) 14:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
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