Talk:Leadership training (Boy Scouts of America)

Leadership training

Wood Badge is pretty well covered, but the background and connections or path between the various adult training programs could be covered here. The adult section is pretty thin right now because I started the youth program section with content about the history of NYLT that I moved from that page. Some pages about the Venturing training programs like Kodiak had not been included in the overview.

The "controversy" section attempts to document some volunteers' dissatisfaction with changes made by the national staff. Some leaders I am friends with are unhappy with the fact that NYLT is now coed. If someone can find a reliable source for this, this info ought to be added too.

I suggest that general info about leadership in other BSA articles be moved here. The Boy Scouts of America article contains a brief section on leadership that I added some time ago because I didn't have the time to create this article at that time. It remains a pretty high-level overview, but does need to be updated. — btphelps ^{(talk) (contribs)} 05:01, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I see that you replaced Youth Leadership Training Continuum with Leadership training (Boy Scouts of America). When I started the Youth Leadership Training Continuum was in three articles so I was trying to remove redundancy. To add to my confusion it seems that Boy Scouts of America and Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America) repeat much information and some of the information in Leadership training (Boy Scouts of America). I would love to have a discussion about what goes where but whats the process and who decides? Reviewing Leadership training (Boy Scouts of America), it contains 90+% youth leadership information since the history from National Youth Leadership Training is now there. If Leadership training (Boy Scouts of America) was changed to Youth leadership training (Boy Scouts of America) and the adult information was removed, it would be clearer. The adults probably need their own page to talk about adult programs and Wood Badge. Now to the suggestion to merge National Youth Leadership Training and NYLT program, since the history has been moved, that is an option. The section Merged with Venturing training should be moved to Leadership training (Boy Scouts of America). And I'm not sure about the purpose of the Program controversy section. The Leadership Skills section could be replaced by NYLT program. Easier said than done. BTW Venturing Leadership Skills Course has been replaced by Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews.

Also NThurston was shown as adopting articles named "Youth Leadership Training" and "Adult Leadership Training", but I don't know what's happening as those titles no longer are shown on Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Adoptions. "The times they are a changing" Skipper Tryon2 (talk) 02:57, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Pinetreeweb and other non-RS

www.pinetreeweb.com is a personal website. It is one of many non-reliable sources used in various scouting articles. If you think it meets RS for this article, please take it to WP:RSN, but do not remove maintenance tags until resolved. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Pinetreeweb was developed by a single individual, that is true. Just because a site is the work of a single author doesn't invalidate the site as a reliable source. You need to evaluate the expertise of the individual author as a source. The single individual who owned and developed PineTreeWeb.com is regarded as an expert by the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America, and helped rewrite the national junior leader training manual for them, as described in this article. The entire site was in fact not his own work, but is almost entirely a collection of resources of interest to Scouters. To quote from the site's home page describing the Pine Tree camp which the site owner led:

"This page is dedicated to the Scouts of Pine Tree Camp, the Junior Leader Training Conference of the Viking Council in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Beginning in 1989, Pine Tree served as the proving grounds for redesign of the Junior Leader Training Conference, a week-long leadership development program sponsored by local Councils for the top youth leaders of Scout troops. In addition to changes in program and Scoutcraft activities, a renewed emphasis on the values of Scouting was a key element. These efforts led to the revision of the Junior Leader Training Conference Staff Guide in 1993 and the incorporation of new elements in the leadership training programs of the BSA. The emphasis on Scouting as a special place (a "safe haven"), and the use of the reflection process were two of the most significant enhancements."

You also marked the work of Béla Bánáthy "Leadership Development - World Scouting Reference Papers, No. 1." as possibly unreliable. Banathy, as his Wikipedia biography notes, was an educator and researcher known world-wide for his work. The paper referenced above was published the Boy Scout World Bureau. If that's not an authoritative source about Scouting, then no sources on Wikipedia are trustworthy.

As to the other questioned source, A History of the White Stag Leadership Development Program, I am the author of that content. I attest that the content has been meticulously researched and is accurate. As to my own qualifications, I have been directly involved in junior leader training since 1968 and have written a book on the subject that's sold over 4000 copies over a number of years.

You've done a lot of fine work on WP, and deserve a lot of credit for your many hours. It appears by your remark above that you have some concern about the reliability of "many non-reliable sources used in various scouting articles". If your concern is genuinely wider, I suggest you take it up with the Wikiproject Scouting. As for these three specific sources, I believe the comments above address your concerns and I've removed your tags marking the sources above as non-RS. — btphelps ^{(talk to me) (what I've done)} 20:37, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

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New changes

Let's discuss these major changes before we start hacking at this piece. Thanks. --evrik ^(talk) 21:52, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@Evrik:, Please respect WP:ONUS and stop restoring contents removed with a valid reason. You're getting it backward. Removal stays until consensus says otherwise, NOT stays until consensus is established. Graywalls (talk) 22:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

There is no consensus. You are acting unilaterally. --evrik ^(talk) 22:05, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@Evrik:, ever realize that contents were added in the first place unilaterally? Please carefully read WP:ONUS. The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.. Drmies also advised you that restoring removed contents is not helpful Special:Diff/1227745989 here. Graywalls (talk) 22:15, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

That's one person's opinion. However, there is this whole discussion: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1153#User:Graywalls_reported_by_User:72.83.72.31. --evrik ^(talk) 17:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

WP:ONUS is not "one person's opinion". @Evrik:, Any idea who started that drive-by report? No registered user came forward taking responsibility. Graywalls (talk) 08:00, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@Evrik:, what has been done to attempt to achieve consensus on contents you're wishing to restore? Graywalls (talk) 23:30, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Graywalls is obviously correct both in terms of policy and content here. 12.75.41.67 (talk) 06:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)