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''The Amen break was even included as one of a few preset rhythms in the Windows digital audio sequencing and remixing program [[The Tuareg]] by professional programmer Bram Bos. The program focuses on the rhythmic manipulation of [[.WAV (RIFF WAVE)]] audio files. The Tuareg later evolved into [[Tu2 (Tuareg 2)]], and later into [[TunaFish]] which added [[VST]] and [[VSTi]] support for effects and instruments.''
{{GA|00:02, 26 May 2024 (UTC)|topic=Music|page=1|oldid=1225670580}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=GA|1=
{{WikiProject Electronic music|importance=high}}
{{WikiProject R&B and Soul Music |importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Hip hop |importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Pop music |importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Rock music |importance=Low}}
}}
{{Ref ideas
|{{cite web|last=Kemp|first=Sam|url=https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-most-sampled-band-in-music-the-history-of-the-amen-break/|title=The most sampled band in music: The history of the 'Amen' break|work=[[Far Out (magazine)|Far Out]]|date=September 20, 2021|accessdate=May 15, 2023}}
}}
{{DYK talk|19 June|2024|image=Amen break sample image.png|entry=... that the '''[[Amen break]]''' ''(waveform pictured)'' gained popularity because it offered an easy way to create [[jungle music]]?|nompage=Template:Did you know nominations/Amen break}}
{{Talk:Amen break/GA1}}


==Did you know nomination==
is this really relevant or necessary? i don't think so. [[User:Dreamyshade|Dreamyshade]] 21:21, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
{{Template:Did you know nominations/Amen break}}


== Waveform ==
----


Probably a wider question on licensing, but seeing this on DYK made me think – is a waveform a [[derivative work]]? The original audio must have been used in the creation of the waveform image. [[User:MIDI|MIDI]] ([[User talk:MIDI|talk]]) 09:36, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Yeah I think so. Dates on stuff like this would be nice though, as referring to the "rhythmic manipulation of wav files" sounds like it was a fairly fresh concept at the time :) [http://www.bootleg-jim.com]


:Technically? No doubt about it.
----
:Legally? I wouldn't worry about it. I wonder if there's a distinction between a (sufficiently zoomed-out) waveform and a spectrograph, as you can retrieve the original audio with appreciable resolution from the latter but not the former. [[User:Remsense|<span style="border-radius:2px 0 0 2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F;color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]][[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="border:1px solid #1E816F;border-radius:0 2px 2px 0;padding:1px 3px;color:#000">诉</span>]] 09:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

::Appreciate that a waveform showing amplitude over time is not sufficient to reconstruct (or even approximate) the original work, but that's not relevant in this being a derivative work of copyrighted media. Reading [[WP:DERIVATIVE]], my interpretation is that while we may be able to justify the waveform's inclusion under fair use, it's not something that can be released as PD, as the file has been, without the recording itself being PD. I think I'll raise this elsewhere as it's not specific to this article. [[User:MIDI|MIDI]] ([[User talk:MIDI|talk]]) 14:00, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Not necessary. It was included in many programs as grooves, rhytms, samples and a lot of other stuff, doesn't need to be mentioned I think.
:::Please link the discussion if you do, I'd be interested. [[User:Remsense|<span style="border-radius:2px 0 0 2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F;color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]][[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="border:1px solid #1E816F;border-radius:0 2px 2px 0;padding:1px 3px;color:#000">诉</span>]] 14:02, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Reezpekt.
::::Will do - I'm gonna strike the image from the MP (currently leaving a note on [[Talk:Main page]]) then when I find the time I'll start a topic somewhere. The only previous mention of this I've found is [[Wikipedia:Media_copyright_questions/Archive/2008/September#Screenshots_of_copyrighted_Audio_files]], which suggests that other editors may agree with my thoughts (I'll tag them in too). [[User:MIDI|MIDI]] ([[User talk:MIDI|talk]]) 14:21, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Richard L Spencer complaint ==

The founder of The Winstons added the following text to the article:

'''It is known that the drummer, G.C. Coleman,nor the copyright owner Richard L. Spencer,the grammy award winning composer and performer of the hit "Color Him Father," has never received any royalties for the sampling.It is once again the old habit of euro-centricity of copying and then claimimg the ideas of Black people.From the whites on the plantations in the south who chalked their faces with black soot and created Amos and Andy, as well as Al Jolson, to Benny Goodman hiring Black arrangers to write the music scores that made him "the king of swing,"to the shameful theft of R&B music from the Blacks like Chuck Berry, Little Richard,and others, by white music pimps who "created' someting called Rock and Roll, and installed Elvis,Jerry Lee Lewis,The Beatles, and other marginally talented souls, who of course , made billions while we die in poverty.So what else is new? Brittany Spears and M&M?'''

The text was posted form a computer in US (Charlotte) so I assume it was the real Richard Spencer.
Mr Spencer, if it was really you please tell us how we can get in touch with you. I think something should be done regarding the royalties, it's not fair.
Greetings.

==Stupid image/phrase==

removed the image and its caption("the most influential 5.[xx] seconds in electronic music history"). It adds nothing.


Stupid image? Got a better idea to visualise a sample loop? STOP REMOVING STUFF OR YOU GONNA GET BANNED! I know it's not your first time...


Why visualize it in the first place? It's a 5 second audio loop. Not to mention the caption is incredibly non-NPOV, along with much of the rest of the article (but I don't feel like cleaning that up right now). I think the image is pointless, but I won't delete it completely. The caption has to change, however.

Amen is the only loop which created a new style of music. If you can prove it wrong please do.

But why is it the most influential? You can't verify a statement like that with facts.

It was the most influential loop in history of electronic music because it was the only time when a simple 5sec sample break created a new subculture and new style of music. It is was used in thousands of tracks and it is the most often sampled break in history. Those are the facts.

Despite the lack of sources in the statement "most often sampled break in history," I won't dispute it, simply because it is quite possibly true. However, the phrase "the most influential 5.20 seconds in the history of electronic music" is a very opinionated phrase, and it needs to be removed, along with many other things in the article. I mean, seriously, "The amen break is still to be found in many d'n'b tracks today and every dj knows that nothing is as sure to send the crowd wild as the amen break"? come on. that kind of wording doesn't belong in an encyclopedia.

I think the image does add a small something to the article. I edited the caption to be neutral. [[User:Dreamyshade|Dreamyshade]] 05:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
: I like the image. Please keep it. [[User:Omphaloscope|Omphaloscope]] &raquo; [[User_talk:Omphaloscope|talk]] 22:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

== Sound sample? ==

Any chance of getting a sound sample (or a link to one) here? Without hearing it, I have no idea how the amen break sounds. [[User:Riki|Riki]] 08:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 14:21, 19 June 2024

GA Review

[edit]
Passed. Joeyquism (talk) 00:02, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Amen break/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: LunaEclipse (talk · contribs) 14:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Joeyquism (talk · contribs) 20:48, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Hello! As someone who used to make really horrible boom bap instrumentals on FL Studio, I know all too well about this break. I'll get the review done in the coming days (or hours, depends on how much time I have). --Joeyquism (talk) 20:48, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. Only things I could find:
  • Though "Color Him Father" became a top-10 R&B hit and won a Grammy Award, "Amen Brother", received little notice at the time of release. — Remove the comma after "Amen Brother", and add a comma in between "Amen" and "Brother" (or remove commas from all other instances of "Amen, Brother" for consistency).

 Done 🌙Eclipse (talk) (contribs) 23:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • [...] and "Keep It Going Now" by Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock. — Change the wikilink to use the ampersand instead of the word "and". "Rob Base & DJ E-Z Rock" is the name of the group; the ampersand is part of this name.

 Done 🌙Eclipse (talk) (contribs) 23:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. Otherwise, no issues with MoS.
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. Looks good.
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). Since there are so few sources listed, I'm just going to do all of them:
  • [1] Source supports Spencer's leadership of the group and statute of limitations stuff. No copyvio.
  • [2] Source supports nearly everything except the £24,000 claim (the article says "gathered more than £18,000 ($26,000)", so you can use this instead). If there is a different source that states £24,000, use that one instead. If there is none, just say "more than £18,000".

 Done 🌙Eclipse (talk) (contribs) 23:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • [3] Source supports everything it is used as a citation for. No copyvio — some sentences come kinda close, but they're so short that I can't see any other way to phrase these things without drifting into WP:ELEVAR territory. However, this phrase needs some in-line attribution or paraphrasing because of the quote: In "King of the Beats" by Mantronix (1988), the Amen break is "chopped up, layered and processed so that the drums became central to the track rather than simply a rhythmic bedding".

 Done 🌙Eclipse (talk) (contribs) 23:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • [4] Source supports Amen break use in Straight Outta Compton and Keep It Going Now. No copyvio.
  • [5] Source supports Amen break use in drum and bass and jungle music. No copyvio.
  • [6] Source supports Amen break use in Futurama theme song. No copyvio.
  • [7] Source supports information on Spencer's death. No copyvio.
2c. it contains no original research. Don't see anything that violates this.
2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. Copyvio check comes back fine, with the highest similarity score at 27.5% from the BBC (source 2).
3. Broad in its coverage:
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. Looks good.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). Stays focused throughout.
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. Neutral point of view maintained.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. No edit warring here.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. All images used are fair use or public domain. Sample of Amen break is both below 10% of the original audio (15.6 seconds) and 30 seconds.
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. Everything is relevant to the topic, but can the drum notation get a caption? I would assume most people reading about a drum break would have some idea of what it shows, but I can't speak for everyone.

 Done 🌙Eclipse (talk) (contribs) 23:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

7. Overall assessment. @LunaEclipse: For now, I'm putting this on hold. Some very minor things with prose and references need to be addressed, but otherwise it looks pretty good. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to let me know by pinging me. Thank you for your hard work on this article! --Joeyquism (talk) 22:34, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@LunaEclipse: Looks better. Passing now. --Joeyquism (talk) 00:02, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

[edit]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 02:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(
)
[[File:|140px|Waveform of the Amen break ]]
Waveform of the Amen break
  • ... that the Amen break (waveform pictured) gained popularity because it offered an easy way to create jungle music?
Improved to Good Article status by LunaEclipse (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

🌙Eclipse (talk) (contribs) 00:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • Very good nom here! Love this topic and glad it's gonna be good to go for DYK. Recently passed GA review, so that covers its new enough, presentable, and well-sourced considerations. It is also long enough, and the hook is interesting and well-sourced as well. A lot of ALT hooks can be constructed for this one, but ALT0 is good. Good job on this one Soulbust (talk) 14:35, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Waveform

[edit]

Probably a wider question on licensing, but seeing this on DYK made me think – is a waveform a derivative work? The original audio must have been used in the creation of the waveform image. MIDI (talk) 09:36, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Technically? No doubt about it.
Legally? I wouldn't worry about it. I wonder if there's a distinction between a (sufficiently zoomed-out) waveform and a spectrograph, as you can retrieve the original audio with appreciable resolution from the latter but not the former. Remsense诉 09:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Appreciate that a waveform showing amplitude over time is not sufficient to reconstruct (or even approximate) the original work, but that's not relevant in this being a derivative work of copyrighted media. Reading WP:DERIVATIVE, my interpretation is that while we may be able to justify the waveform's inclusion under fair use, it's not something that can be released as PD, as the file has been, without the recording itself being PD. I think I'll raise this elsewhere as it's not specific to this article. MIDI (talk) 14:00, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please link the discussion if you do, I'd be interested. Remsense诉 14:02, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Will do - I'm gonna strike the image from the MP (currently leaving a note on Talk:Main page) then when I find the time I'll start a topic somewhere. The only previous mention of this I've found is Wikipedia:Media_copyright_questions/Archive/2008/September#Screenshots_of_copyrighted_Audio_files, which suggests that other editors may agree with my thoughts (I'll tag them in too). MIDI (talk) 14:21, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Amen_break&oldid=1229931415"