Talk:Kinmen: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Latest revision as of 03:55, 3 July 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kinmen article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 3 months

This level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Geography Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Geography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of geography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GeographyWikipedia:WikiProject GeographyTemplate:WikiProject Geographygeography

Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Geography To-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : See Requested articles/Social sciences/Geography, cities, regions and named places and Missing articles about Locations
Assess : Tag related article talk pages with {{WikiProject Geography}}. To help assess the quality and importance of geography articles, please see: Unassessed geography articles and Unknown-importance geography articles.
Cleanup : See Geography articles needing attention
Deletion sorting : Listed at Geographic related deletion discussions
Geographical coordinates : See Articles missing geocoordinate data by country
Infobox : See Geography articles needing infoboxes
Map : See Wikipedia requested maps
Notability : See Geography articles with topics of unclear notability
Photo : See Wikipedia requested photographs of places
Stubs : See Geography stubs

Taiwan High‑importance

	Taiwan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Taiwan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Taiwan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TaiwanWikipedia:WikiProject TaiwanTemplate:WikiProject TaiwanTaiwan
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Islands

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islands, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of islands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslandsWikipedia:WikiProject IslandsTemplate:WikiProject IslandsIslands

view · edit

Frequently asked questions

Q: Should "Jinmen" have its own article?

A: No. Kinmen is a postal romanization of the Chinese name 金門. This transliteration system was developed in the 1890s. It is based on pronunciation in Southern Mandarin, a dialect spoken in the Lower Yangtze region, including the city of Nanjing. The spelling Kinmen is often used in material published by the Taiwanese government.^[1]

"Jinmen" is a transliteration of the same characters made using the pinyin system. Pinyin spelling reflects pronunciation in putonghua, a standardized form of the Northern Mandarin dialect spoken in Beijing and other northern cities. Schools in China have taught pupils Northern Mandarin pronunciation since the 1930s.^[2] Pinyin was adopted by China in 1958 and internationally in 1979.^[3] Taiwanese schools also teach Northern Mandarin pronunciation, called Guoyu in Taiwan. The government adopted pinyin in 2009.^[4]

An article called Jinmen would essentially duplicate this article.

References

^ For example, 2019-2020 Taiwan at a glance, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of China (Taiwan), October 2019, pp. 1, 22.
^ The National Language Commission published a pronuncation standard in 1932. (Commonly used words in the National Language (国语常用字汇)).
^ Times Revises Style of Chinese spelling", New York Times, March 4, 1979.
^ Shih Hsiu-Chuan, "Hanyu Pinyin to be standard system in 2009." Taipei Times, Sept. 18, 2008.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

瓊林蔡氏家廟風獅爺.JPG

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:38, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Area of Islands given to too many decimal places?)

• Total	150.456 km2 (58.091 sq mi)

This seems excessive and clearly the area value provided has been estimated in one set of units. Is the area truly known to 0.001 km2 which is about 0.1 ha or less than half an acre? It might be with satellites these days but what is wrong with '150km2' ('58 sq mi')?

[1] For example, 2019-2020 Taiwan at a glance, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of China (Taiwan), October 2019, pp. 1, 22.

[2] The National Language Commission published a pronuncation standard in 1932. (Commonly used words in the National Language (国语常用字汇)).

[3] Times Revises Style of Chinese spelling", New York Times, March 4, 1979.

[4] Shih Hsiu-Chuan, "Hanyu Pinyin to be standard system in 2009." Taipei Times, Sept. 18, 2008.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{Talk header}}
-{{Vital article|class=B|level=5|link=Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Countries|anchor=Taiwan (14 articles)}}
-{{WikiProject Geography|class=B|importance=low}}
+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1=
-{{WikiProject Taiwan|class=B|importance=high}}
+{{WikiProject Geography|importance=low}}
+{{WikiProject Taiwan|importance=high}}
+{{WikiProject Islands}}
+}}
 {{User:MiszaBot/config
 |archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav}}
@@ Line 16: / Line 19: @@
 {{FAQ|collapsed=no}}
+== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
-== Recent changes ==
+The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
+* [[commons:File:瓊林蔡氏家廟風獅爺.JPG|瓊林蔡氏家廟風獅爺.JPG]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2023-02-21T17:38:29.814675 | 瓊林蔡氏家廟風獅爺.JPG -->
-I recently made [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Kinmen&type=revision&diff=985505371&oldid=984865383 various edits to the article] which I will justify in this post.
+Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Wind Lion God in Kinmen County|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 17:38, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
-*A paragraph on the pinyin name, "Jinmen," was added. On GBooks, Jinmen is used far more than "Chin-men," a Wade-Giles spelling which was given more coverage in the article prior to my recent edits. As the island's Cold War prominence faded in the 1980s and 1990s, usage for Kinmen declined, but not nearly as much as usage for Quemoy. Check out [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Kinmen%2CJinmen%2CQuemoy%2CChin-men&year_start=1990&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3 this ngram].
-:Since I have been accused of being a pinyin supporter, I should note that my preferred spelling of the island's name is "Quemoy." This is the spelling used by published dictionaries and encyclopedias. It would be the article's title if we followed our own naming guidelines.
-*My removal of [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Kinmen&type=revision&diff=985319069&oldid=985316007 this reference] was questioned. The Ministry of the Interior doesn't make "the rules," so I don't understand the objection. The reference is a Chinese-language PDF that was removed from the MOI site years ago. IMO, [http://multilingual.mofa.gov.tw/web/web_UTF-8/MOFA/glance2019-2020/English.pdf this source], from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, is superior. This is just about neater sourcing since the various branches of the Taiwanese government provide consistent information.
-*I have to wonder why the 1958 bombardment and the island’s Cold War status were removed from the lead. These issues are surely more relevant than the names of the outlying island and the status of the disbanded Fujian Province.
-*I have restored the discussion of travel restrictions to the lead.
-*I have asked around to try to determine why so many Wikipedia editors add the phrase "Republic of China" to article text. It might look like an infiltration by the KMT. But as near as I can tell, it's not really a political statement. These editors argue the ROC is "official" because the Taiwanese government occasionally uses it. Of course, the government uses "Taiwan" as well. Asking how the government would do it is not how editing is supposed to work. Copy editors should select a dictionary and appropriate reference works and follow the usage in those. In this case, relevant reference works almost invarably use “Taiwan.” Our guidelines recommend ''[[The Chicago Manual of Style]],'' which in turn recommends ''[https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tw.html The World Factbook]'' for this purpose. "Taiwan" is also more practical since “People’s Republic of China” and “Republic of China” are confusingly similar names.
-*The reason the island is called Quemoy has nothing to do with the university. So this information doesn’t belong in the names section.
-*I’d have restored the information that Taiwan officially uses pinyin to the “Names” section. The way it was written, it sounded like postal romanization is still a thing. [[User:5440orSleep|5440orSleep]] ([[User talk:5440orSleep|talk]]) 08:56, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
-:{{tq|infiltration by the KMT}} is an immediately block-able offense. <span style="color: #8B0000">Caradhras</span>Aiguo (<small>[[User talk:CaradhrasAiguo|leave language]]</small>) 14:00, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
-::Is there a guideline regarding KMT infiltration? It was just a joke. [[User:5440orSleep|5440orSleep]] ([[User talk:5440orSleep|talk]]) 17:21, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
-::: "The reason the island is called Quemoy has nothing to do with the university. So this information doesn’t belong in the names section." No, but it is an example of the usage of the term in a prominent context in the local area. Hence it is warranted for the name section; hence it is readded. [[User:Geographyinitiative|Geographyinitiative]] ([[User talk:Geographyinitiative|talk]]) 03:50, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
-:::: This material makes it sound like the term "Quemoy" has become more popular in recent years. First off, I am not convinced that this is actually true. I walked around the island and I didn't see even one sign that said "Quemoy." The islanders I talked to made a point of saying "Kinmen." (I remember this because I thought it was odd that they didn't use the Chinese name when speaking to me.) Certainly usage for Quemoy has declined since the 1990s. Even if Quemoy really was making a comeback, it applies a horserace spin to the issue that I don't think is appropriate. [[User:5440orSleep|5440orSleep]] ([[User talk:5440orSleep|talk]]) 23:45, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
-== Non-native Namings ==
-It is [[WP:UNDUE]] "prominence of placement" to add foreign language content not cited to native-native communication between the residents of the area. [[User:Geographyinitiative|Geographyinitiative]] ([[User talk:Geographyinitiative|talk]]) 03:46, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
-== Greater Kinmen ==
+== Area of Islands given to too many decimal places?) ==
-"Greater Kinmen" is not listed in the [https://geonames.nga.mil/namesgaz/ Geonames database]. The island is given as "Kinmen Island." [https://chrome-extension://gphandlahdpffmccakmbngmbjnjiiahp/https://multilingual.mofa.gov.tw/web/web_UTF-8/MOFA/glance2019-2020/English.pdf MOFA] doesn't mention Greater Kinmen either. Information that is this obscure doesn't belong in the opening paragraph. [[User:5440orSleep|5440orSleep]] ([[User talk:5440orSleep|talk]]) 01:11, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
+ • Total	150.456 km2 (58.091 sq mi)
+This seems excessive and clearly the area value provided has been estimated in one set of units. Is the area truly known to 0.001 km2 which is about 0.1 ha or less than half an acre? It might be with satellites these days but what is wrong with '150km2' ('58 sq mi')?