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m Removed deprecated parameters in {{Talk header}} that are now handled automatically (Task 30)
 
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{{DYK talk|19 February|2017|entry= ... that the upcoming television series '''''[[Runaways (TV series)|Runaways]]''''' was first developed in 2008 as a feature film by [[Marvel Studios]] but was shelved due to the success of ''[[The Avengers (2012 film)|The Avengers]]''?|nompage=Template:Did you know nominations/Runaways (TV series)}}
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⚫
== Cast section ==

So, what is the edit-warring all about now? The cast can almost perfectly be broken into three groups: kids (protagonists), parents (antagonists) and recurring. As the series is new, I am not expecting a lot in the recurring section, but the parent/kid split is noted in several sources. Since our viewpoints have no weight versus that of reliable sources, we include it as such. - [[User:Jack Sebastian|Jack Sebastian]] ([[User talk:Jack Sebastian|talk]]) 02:43, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
:Well, given that it was you that started the edit-warring, I am the one that is most interested in your answer to your own question. Especially when it's so interesting that you preach for [[WP:BRD|BRD]] and against edit-warring, then go against both of those yourself. It is also interesting how you state that [[WP:other stuff exists|other stuff exists]], especially when the first paragraph in its lead states "These "other stuff exists" arguments can be valid or invalid" - much like now.
:Now onto content, not contributor. The [[WP:CONSENSUS|CONSENSUS]] of the Television WikiProject and Television Manual of Style is that only three sections are necessary in any cast section - Main (as credited in the opening credits or per reliable sources), Recurring (appearances in three or more episodes) and Guest (normally only notable guests, in two or less episodes). That is, real-life groups, not in-universe groupings per [[WP:INUNIVERSE|INUNIVERSE]] (and also, for your wording, [[WP:PROTAGONIST|PROTAGONIST]]). That also includes no Guest Starring, Special Guest, etc. sections. Yes, that also includes not having any specific Kids and Parents section. ''This'' is a consensus - different editors adding it to the article without starting any form of discussion, that's their personal belief on what should be in the article, that's not a consensus, as you [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Runaways_(TV_series)&diff=812654025&oldid=812652926 state].
:It is far more than two editors want it, one doesn't, as you also [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Runaways_(TV_series)&diff=812654273&oldid=812654153 stated] - if you open up the page history to a lot more than the past fifty contributions, you'll see that there are a far lot more edits concerning it. (However, we all know that content disputes are never solved by how many people there are on each side; that is, after all, a vote.) That means that the bold edit is adding the headers, and once these have been reverted, the discussion needs to unfold here on the talk page. -- '''[[User:AlexTheWhovian|<span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span>]]'''''[[User talk:AlexTheWhovian#top|<sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup>]]'' 03:47, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

::Okay, since you decided to champion this (goody), let's look at your asserions, bypassing the [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]]:
:::{{font color | green |''other stuff exists arguments can be valid or invalid" - much like now.''}}
:::So, feel free to argue how it is invalid.
:::{{font color | green |''The consensu of the Television WikiProject and Television Manual of Style is that only three sections are necessary in any cast section - Main (as credited in the opening credits or per reliable sources), Recurring (appearances in three or more episodes) and Guest (normally only notable guests, in two or less episodes)''...''that also includes not having any specific Kids and Parents section''}}
::You might want to give that MOS another look; it doesn't say what you think it does. But please, feel entirely free to note how we ''only'' note main/recurring/guest. It isn't INUNIVERSE to note the basic breakdown of characters. Plus, you note a "guest star" who isn't credited as such. I'm not opposed to Main/Recurring/Guest but ignoring the elephant in the room is stupid.
::Additionally, you make the feeble argument that consensus decided against noting the adversarial nature of the cast of characters; I guess I just don;t see that. So prove to me that you have a valid consensus. That's all I am asking. - [[User:Jack Sebastian|Jack Sebastian]] ([[User talk:Jack Sebastian|talk]]) 16:45, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Amusing how you accuse others of personal attacks, then do the same. Clearly you're such the companion here, bucko.
:::Let's go on a journey, an unexpected adventure, and read [[WP:TVCAST]]: {{tq|It may be appropriate to split the cast listing by "Main" and "Recurring" cast or characters.}} I'm not seeing anything about a Kids or Parents section? I also recommend that you read the archives of both the Television WikiProject and Television Manual of Style talk pages, not just the latter; you might find it most enlightening.
:::It is certainly [[WP:INUNIVERSE|INUNIVERSE]] to split the cast into sections that are based on in-universe events. In the credits of the series, which is determined by the series producers, there is no differentiating between the ages of the characters, and thus, there should be no such differentiation here. If you wish to gain consensus to update the cast guideline and support the addition of extra sections, then that's up to you to start a discussion elsewhere. -- '''[[User:AlexTheWhovian|<span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span>]]'''''[[User talk:AlexTheWhovian#top|<sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup>]]'' 03:08, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

For Your Information. My edits was so a person a more easy to read the Cast section list and the Parents group is named the Pride or calling them that in the Article would work too. [[User:Brownshoes22|Brownshoes22]] ([[User talk:Brownshoes22|talk]]) 00:23, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
:That would work for me, esp. since the Pride is wikilinked. Add that to the adversarial nature of the charcters as cited by sources, and that might work just fine. - [[User:Jack Sebastian|Jack Sebastian]] ([[User talk:Jack Sebastian|talk]]) 02:45, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
::I disagree, for the very reasons as presented above. You have no essay, guideline or policy support, or WikiProject or Manual of Style to support, to split the credits into sections that are not displayed as such in the credits. Shall we have the same discussion twice in the same section? -- '''[[User:AlexTheWhovian|<span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span>]]'''''[[User talk:AlexTheWhovian#top|<sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup>]]'' 03:08, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Alex is correct. If a cast list needs to be split, we do say based on crediting and not any other subjective measure—particularly not in-universe categorisation. - [[User:Adamstom.97|adamstom97]] ([[User talk:Adamstom.97|talk]]) 09:26, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

::::Cool, we appear to have a marked difference of opinion, equally supported and opposed. Let's initiate an RfC, and get some more opinions on the subject. I haven't heard anything yet that alters my opinion that articles have the freedom to present themselves how they wish, and I believe that the cast separation is helpful and germane to the article, and not in-universe. As others disagree, lets get more eyes on the discussion, please. - [[User:Jack Sebastian|Jack Sebastian]] ([[User talk:Jack Sebastian|talk]]) 16:56, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

:::::'''articles have the freedom to present themselves how they wish'''{{citation needed}} <br>[[User:Weeb Dingle|Weeb Dingle]] ([[User talk:Weeb Dingle|talk]]) 02:14, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

== Old Lace placement in article ==

There has been some disagreement about where to place Old Lace's description in the article. The [[WP:STATUSQUO]] from [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Runaways_(TV_series)&oldid=810985809 this article state] on November 18, 2017, has the info in the cast section, under main. My reasoning and support of this location, is yes, there is no actor attached or credited as Old Lace, but she is still a character, and the section is called "Cast and characters", not just "Cast" (if it was just that, then yes, listing Old Lace would not be correct). "Main" felt like the best subsection of "Cast and characters" to place the info since Old Lace is considered a Runaway member in the comics. However, adding it under "Recurring" or "Guest" would also be acceptable in my opinion, simply as long as the content is listed under the level 2 "Cast and characters" heading. I don't feel it is quite accurate to include it in the "Production" section. Casting doesn't work in my eyes, because the issue of no actor attached becomes more apparent here, when all the other info in this section is about actors joining the project, and I don't feel any of the other subsections there currently would work, nor the need to create a single one just for this info. - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 07:02, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
:And to me, it is clear the cast section is meant for actors, as in humans, who appear in the credits, hence the reason there is so much guidance on listing entries there based on the series' credits as per [[MOS:TVCAST]]. No one is being credited for "playing" Old Lace—this is not a motion-capture performance like Andy Serkis in Lord of the Rings or Planet of the Apes. These sections, sometimes called "Cast" or sometimes called "Cast and characters", all share the same type of information:
:* [real person] as [fictional character]: [description]
:or
:* [fictional character] ([real person]): [description]

:The key point being: "real person". A visual/animatronic effect like Old Lace should be in the "Production" section. I don't have a preference on where... I'm guessing "Filming" would make the most sense, but Old Lace is not a cast member. Old Lace is VFX.
:Also, would have been nice if, while we were discussing, you had left the status quo as it currently stood, as opposed to reaching into the past to find an edit that supported your interpretation. —[[User:Joeyconnick|Joeyconnick]] ([[User talk:Joeyconnick|talk]]) 18:13, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
::But as formatted (without a bullet), that is not indicating that anyone is "playing" Old Lace in my opinion, and I think others will not think that as well or get that interpretation. And as I stated, if it is a matter of credits, I'd be fine moving the info out of the "Main" section, and to the bottom of "Recurring". Also, as to the [[WP:STATUSQUO]], the version I linked was how the info initially was added to the article before its premiere. Then you edited the article to move the info elsewhere, which I took as "Bold". I believe I then reverted it, for you to undo my edit, (so "Revert") and we did that once more before I started this discussion. So the version I put the article to, is the STATUSQUO as it is the version before the disputed change (the moving of the info out of the "Cast and characters" section). - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 06:24, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
:::I agree with Favre that the Old Lace information should be placed in the "Cast and characters" section and not in any of the "Production" subsections as it doesn't fit in any of those per [[WP:TVPRODUCTION]]. Since the character has not appeared in series regular manner, I would put it at the bottom of "Recurring". - [[User:Brojam|Brojam]] ([[User talk:Brojam|talk]]) 07:03, 16 December 2017 (UTC)


== PRIDE stand for.. ==
== PRIDE stand for.. ==
Line 76: Line 36:


Won't discuss plot here, but will just note that the episode features DeVaughn Nixon as Darius Davis and Marlene Forte as Graciela Aguirre. - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 00:47, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Won't discuss plot here, but will just note that the episode features DeVaughn Nixon as Darius Davis and Marlene Forte as Graciela Aguirre. - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 00:47, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

⚫
== Split of the cast section? ==

Is it worthwhile to make this split? {{u|JesseRafe}} your edits aren't wrong, per se, but as I stated in [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Runaways_%28TV_series%29&type=revision&diff=936946427&oldid=936905782 my edit summary], I don't agree with the outright removal of these characters. Especially, in agreeing with what {{u|YgorD3}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Runaways_%28TV_series%29&type=revision&diff=937203437&oldid=937194265 said], some of these characters are important to the plot of the series, even if they were simply guest roles. - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 17:42, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
:I'm starting a rough mock up of a character article in my sandbox [[User:Favre1fan93/sandbox/2|here]]. - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 18:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks, you and Ygor are right, that I deleted too many. It seemed to be about 10% of the page (by display lines, not bytes) which to me felt egregious. Perhaps the plot-pivotal ones can be kept and listed with the recurring roles, without the extra subheadings of seasons, which for only a dozen or so names, would reduce the length of the article and the TOC to more manageable/scrollable sizes. I'll let someone who has a more longterm interest in the article make those changes if they agree, as I was just driving by after watching the series. Cheers, [[User:JesseRafe|JesseRafe]] ([[User talk:JesseRafe|talk]]) 14:19, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
:::Well it should be a cherry pick of characters. If we're going to remove characters, we should just do a straight split, leaving just the main/starring here. And then relevant guest can be discussed in the production section. - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 00:19, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

== Episode/season split ==

Hi! I'm new to Wikipedia, so I'm not really sure how it works, but should we split the episodes or seasons off into their own article, since ''Runaways'' is a relatively popular show, I think, and it has so many episodes? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:SirLou|SirLou]] ([[User talk:SirLou#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/SirLou|contribs]]) 16:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:{{re|SirLou}} Hi there! Welcome to Wikipedia. Please read [[WP:TVSPLIT]] regarding this. The series does not have enough total episodes to justify a stand alone episode list. As for season articles, that could potentially happen, but there is not enough info currently in article to warrant or justify a split. The info may be out there, and as such, any planned splits should most likely be created as [[WP:DRAFT|draft articles]] first to be built out to a point that a split would be viable. - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 22:12, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
::Reverted split to articles for seasons 1 and 2. 0% consensus for this and does not meet [[WP:TVSPLIT]] or [[WP:SPLIT]]. Size of non-table prose is only 31 kB and series is over, so article is unlikely to ever get much bigger (certainly not to nearly double in size). —[[User:Joeyconnick|Joeyconnick]] ([[User talk:Joeyconnick|talk]]) 16:58, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
:::Thanks {{u|Joeyconnick}}. The content was also a copy/paste of what was already here, not adding anything more that would help justify a split (ie more season specific information than series specific). - [[User:Favre1fan93|Favre1fan93]] ([[User talk:Favre1fan93|talk]]) 19:04, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 21:06, 15 July 2024

PRIDE stand for..

[edit]

Peomoting Reslerce Independoe Dedication Excellence

I think as on the big check on one episde!--Brownshoes22 (talk) 23:33, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Episode 201

[edit]

Hi there friends. I was at New York Comic Con and saw the first episode of season 2. Here's some info if we want to put this on the article:

  • Director: Allison Liddi-Brown
  • Writers: Josh Schwartz & Stephanie Savage
  • All main cast members are still credited, with Julian McMahon being promoted to starring (and receiving last billing)

Won't discuss plot here, but will just note that the episode features DeVaughn Nixon as Darius Davis and Marlene Forte as Graciela Aguirre. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:47, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Split of the cast section?

[edit]

Is it worthwhile to make this split? JesseRafe your edits aren't wrong, per se, but as I stated in my edit summary, I don't agree with the outright removal of these characters. Especially, in agreeing with what YgorD3 said, some of these characters are important to the plot of the series, even if they were simply guest roles. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:42, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm starting a rough mock up of a character article in my sandbox here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, you and Ygor are right, that I deleted too many. It seemed to be about 10% of the page (by display lines, not bytes) which to me felt egregious. Perhaps the plot-pivotal ones can be kept and listed with the recurring roles, without the extra subheadings of seasons, which for only a dozen or so names, would reduce the length of the article and the TOC to more manageable/scrollable sizes. I'll let someone who has a more longterm interest in the article make those changes if they agree, as I was just driving by after watching the series. Cheers, JesseRafe (talk) 14:19, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well it should be a cherry pick of characters. If we're going to remove characters, we should just do a straight split, leaving just the main/starring here. And then relevant guest can be discussed in the production section. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:19, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Episode/season split

[edit]

Hi! I'm new to Wikipedia, so I'm not really sure how it works, but should we split the episodes or seasons off into their own article, since Runaways is a relatively popular show, I think, and it has so many episodes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SirLou (talk • contribs) 16:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SirLou: Hi there! Welcome to Wikipedia. Please read WP:TVSPLIT regarding this. The series does not have enough total episodes to justify a stand alone episode list. As for season articles, that could potentially happen, but there is not enough info currently in article to warrant or justify a split. The info may be out there, and as such, any planned splits should most likely be created as draft articles first to be built out to a point that a split would be viable. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:12, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Reverted split to articles for seasons 1 and 2. 0% consensus for this and does not meet WP:TVSPLIT or WP:SPLIT. Size of non-table prose is only 31 kB and series is over, so article is unlikely to ever get much bigger (certainly not to nearly double in size). —Joeyconnick (talk) 16:58, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Joeyconnick. The content was also a copy/paste of what was already here, not adding anything more that would help justify a split (ie more season specific information than series specific). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:04, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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