Talk:Ward Churchill: Difference between revisions
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==article is imbalanced== |
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if you look at the great work he did as editor in the 1990s, eg the contintelpapers, this article is really unbalanced, focusing on cricitism and other recent matters <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/50.195.10.169|50.195.10.169]] ([[User talk:50.195.10.169|talk]]) 19:32, 7 January 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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::The problem is that since Churchill's habit of plagiarizing and fabrication has been exposed, you can't consider anything he wrote as a reliable source.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 19:48, 18 June 2013 (UTC) |
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:::Accusations of such behavior. [[Special:Contributions/198.189.193.83|198.189.193.83]] ([[User talk:198.189.193.83|talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned"> — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 02:20, 6 March 2014 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Compared to what it once was this article is extremely well balanced. Churchhill is a very controversial character. There was a time when all positive edits were being rejected wholesale. So congratulations to the ones who have brought this article back from the abyss [[User:Michaelgossett|Michaelgossett]] ([[User talk:Michaelgossett|talk]]) 20:05, 8 July 2013 (UTC) |
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== What is he doing today? == |
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If anyone could add this to the article, it would be helpful. <b>[[User:Kingturtle|Kingturtle =]]</b> <small>([[User talk:Kingturtle|talk]])</small> 16:37, 2 November 2013 (UTC) |
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:Today Churchill lives in Atlanta, and appears to be "professionally" (I hesitate to apply that word to what Churchill does)inactive.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 18:59, 2 November 2013 (UTC) |
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::It would be useful to say something about this, but he seems to have fallen off the Google News map recently. There is little or no sourcing on what he is doing today.--'''''[[User:ianmacm|<span style="background:#88b;color:#cff;font-variant:small-caps">♦Ian<span style="background:#99c">Ma<span style="background:#aad">c</span></span>M♦</span>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ianmacm|(talk to me)]]</sup>''''' 07:31, 3 November 2013 (UTC) |
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::Have a look at his web page. He's asking the United Nations to give him his job at CU back because he's a victim of human rights abuses. Or something like that.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 01:28, 4 November 2013 (UTC) |
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== On Blood Quantum issues == |
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While I am not advocating for this individual; for years he was riding high on the idea of Native American heritage. But our heritage is complicated in the U.S., and I would note some important problems in the way Indian heritage has been masked or race misrepresented. One problem is census takers of yesteryear; the notation of race involved self-reporting, (and no one wanted to be an Indian back then) and unfortunately, race and some other notations are not very reliable sources of blood quantum information. The Dawes Act and subsequent 'Rolls' are also problematic. It is accurate to say that there were notations of blood-quantum, but this depended on the note taker or observer. Modern databases with genealogy are also a problem. I have seen notations on Indian blood quantum in the Dawes Rolls, and the same individual is noted as 'white' by the worldwide LDS FamilySearch.org. I have written, bringing this to the attention of staff for the organization, who reply that they use census data whenever possible. At least they understood my concern. |
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All this considered, there may not be 'proof' that Mssr. Churchill is Native American in heritage, but there are important reasons to doubt some 'primary' sources which provide information on race. As yet another aside, there was a coroner's office in Virginia with a director who changed the death records of many Indian people of mixed heritage, to 'Negro.' I believe this was done to deceased members of the Pamunkey tribe, or a nearby band. |
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KSRolph [[Special:Contributions/70.36.140.221|70.36.140.221]] ([[User talk:70.36.140.221|talk]]) 07:27, 5 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:"Stay on topic: Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article. Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archival or removal." -[[User:Uyvsdi|Uyvsdi]] ([[User talk:Uyvsdi|talk]]) 17:42, 5 February 2014 (UTC)Uyvsdi |
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==2014 Counterpunch interview link== |
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{{U|Pokey5945}} just violated the [[WP:3rr|three reverts rule]] by repeatedly deleting an 2014 interview [http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/01/31/in-search-of-ward-churchill/] originally added by {{U|E.N.Stanway}}. Despite the fact that Pokey claims: "The link explicitly violates several aspects of WP policy on the external link section," he hasn't explained how. There's only four external links, so excessive linking isn't an issue. There are no violations in [[WP:ELNO]]. Since the interview with WITH Churchill, there's no violation of [[WP:ELBLP]]. The material is much more recent than other links, and the fact that it's linked on Churchill's personal site is irrelevant, since not everyone wants to go to his personal site. -[[User:Uyvsdi|Uyvsdi]] ([[User talk:Uyvsdi|talk]]) 22:28, 18 February 2014 (UTC)Uyvsdi |
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:Before this thread gets headed down the wrong path, I think it important to note that Pokey5945 hasn't actually violated the 3RR rule, as he did not exceed three reverts within any given 24 hour period. However, he has reverted the addition of the link four times in the past 48 hours, as seen here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Ward_Churchill&diff=595812963&oldid=595776435 1], [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Ward_Churchill&diff=595932255&oldid=595828021 2], [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Ward_Churchill&diff=596087022&oldid=595968424 3], [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Ward_Churchill&diff=596092337&oldid=596088168 4]. Two editors (E.N. Standway and Uyvsdi) feel that the link should be added. Pokey5945, would you please elaborate here on the Talk Page as to why you feel the link "explicitly violates several aspects of WP policy on the external link section"? Regards, [[User:AzureCitizen|AzureCitizen]] ([[User talk:AzureCitizen|talk]]) 22:49, 18 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::Several reasons: (1) The interview is already linked in the article body as a source, and it is thus redundant to give it a second link on WP. To do so smacks of POV-pushing. (2) There are many interviews with Churchill. This one is not particularly notable, or no more notable than the others. "Links in the 'External links' section should be kept to a minimum." (3) The link is to a non-RS. "External links in biographies of living persons must be of high quality and are judged by a higher standard than for other articles." (4) The interview is mostly about Churchill's complaints about the research misconduct process and subsequent legal wrangling, most of which are contentious or cannot be verified. "On articles with multiple points of view, avoid providing links too great in number or weight to one point of view, or that give undue weight to minority views."[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 23:20, 18 February 2014 (UTC) |
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<hr> |
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Pokey5495 is pushing his own narrow point of view, the very offense of which he is accusing others. Upon examination, none of his statements make any sense. |
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(1) The notion that a source should be referenced only once is comletely bogus. Each of the "external links" is previously referenced in the article. The link to ''[[Z Magazine]]'' seems to be broken, but it is cited twice in the text. The website www.Colorado.edu is referenced in eleven footnotes: 3(x5), 22(x2), 24, 3(x2), & 60. The site www.WardChurchill.net is cited in two footnotes: 5 & 67. The site www.theRaceToTheBottom.org is cited once, in note 45. The site www.CounterPunch.org is cited in four footnotes: 13(x2), 39 & 55, less than less than the number of references to Colorado University. Is that institution guilty of "POV-pushing"? The notion is further revealed as bogus by the fact that the first two times that the ''CounterPunch'' link was reverted, it was not yet "already linked in the article body as a source". [footnote numbers will change as the article is edited] |
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(2) Churchill's most recent interview is indeed "more notable than the others" precisely because it is the most recent, as indicated by the requests on the talk page for recent information about The Professor. If indeed there are "many interviews", then they should be listed in the main part of the article under the "works" section along with the lists of books and articles. People who want to learn about the subject will like having a quick reference to interviews, in addition to having the most recent interview in the "external links" section. |
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(3) ''[[CounterPunch]]'' is indeed a "quality source", definitely far more reliable than other sources in the article, such as the Colorado University. ''CounterPunch'' has been decreed to be "America's Best Political Newsletter." Check it out: http://www.CounterPunch.org If we are to be strict with the rules, then links to C.U. must definitely be deleted as violating WP:ELNO §4#2: "Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research..." |
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(4) To suggest that any of The Professor's statements "cannot be verified" would be disingenuous. To state that "most" of his statements "cannot be verified" is an outrageous and shameless lie, and would seem to free others from the normally-appropriate admonition to "assume good faith". Is Pokey5495 prepared to defend that statement? Certainly, the Colorado University failed to do so, as attested by the jurors in the subsequent trial and the researchers with the Colorado AAUP who investigated the matter. |
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One might question the motives of someone who would bring lies here. What motivation is there for Pokey5495, or Colorado University for that matter, to tell lies? Who is it who profits by these lies? Deep Throat recommended to "follow the money". It would seem that, through support for ACTA and other such "sock-puppets", Dick Cheney and the Koch brothers have a hand in all this. Perhaps Pokey5495 supports the principle that "truth is the first casualty of warfare" because he himself profits from war, or hopes to, and so advocates the present state of continual warfare as a matter of personal advancement. Perhaps he profits from the corporate exploitation of the earth, and uses the notion that "business is business" to justify this lying. Editing for profit seems to be against the rules of wikipedia. |
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One might hope that people who soil themselves with such lies are at least being compensated well. The alternatives are certainly pitiful. Maybe Pokey5495 is a compulsive liar, a psychopath perhaps, who delights in creating confusion and is unable to control himself. Or perhaps he is not conscious enough to be aware that he is lying, and repeats statements without regard for their validity. The ancient Greeks are said to have had the notion that "an unexamined life is not worth living". Some of the indigenous cultures of North America had similar notions. Some say that each person has a duty to ask "Who are we? Where did we come from? Why are we here?" Persons who bring lies here have surely never asked those questions, and would probably have difficulty doing so. In attempting to answer those questions, one must confront the indigenous notion that lying is a capital offense (i.e. liars are deemed unworthy of life) and the indigenist notion that the existence of the United States in North America (and even the presence of European peoples) lacks moral validity. |
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== Clarification needed! == |
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I propose that Pokey5495 either demonstrate an instance where Professor Churchill has engaged in deceit, in which case the implication that The Professor is deceitful can be dealt with in a forthright manner, or else admit to being deceitful and duplicitous himself (and engaging in POV-pushing), in which case he is definitely not qualified to discuss the matters at hand. Meanwhile, any further edits by Mr. Pokey5495 should be considered vandalism, since it would certainly be lunacy to attempt to "negotiate" truth. |
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As present the article says "It was in this book that Churchill first made the claim that the United States distributed "smallpox-infested blankets" to Indian tribes, a claim which he repeated several times over the next decade. The claim has been criticized as a falsification." |
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[[User:E.N.Stanway|E.N.Stanway]] ([[User talk:E.N.Stanway|talk]]) 16:20, 19 February 2014 (UTC) |
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<hr> |
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::Wow. Ad hominem city. So much for assuming good faith and trying for NPOV. WRT to the request for examples of Churchill's deceit, note his claim in the interview that there are no scholarly publications that refute him or accuse him of research misconduct(paraphrase). I can think of three examples of such just off the top of my head. I'm fine with including the interview so long as it is balanced by opposing viewpoints on the research misconduct question. I'm not okay with only pro-Churchill perspectives on the research misconduct issue on the list. For now I will leave the interview, but I will be adding balancing links to the list in a few days when I have time, unless you can articulate a reason not to.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 19:13, 19 February 2014 (UTC) |
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<hr> |
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Ad hominem indeed. That is exactly what it is to assert that Professor Churchill has been deceitful. So yet again Pokey5495 is hurling accusations against others which more aptly apply to him. And what is the reason that he would bring such deceit here? Apparently, he is attacking the character of Professor Churchill (what is known as character assassination) because he is not able to deal with the underlying issues on their own merits. Regardless of anything which is written or not written here, Ward Churchill is an internationally-recognized scholar who, along with other indigenist scholars such as Dee Brown, Vine Deloria Jr. and others, have dramatically raised the level of intellectual discourse in the United States. The fact that some people are unable to discuss the issues in a rational way, without resorting to deceit and ad hominem attacks, is an indication of the wide gap which yet remains between what constitutes the "dominant narrative" of American history and what is real and true. Let us remember that wikipedia standards of reliability demand that "any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources". Professor Churchill has repeatedly upheld that standard. |
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This reads like the whole concept of smallpox blankets used to destroy the indians is 1) an idea of Churchill, 2) is considered to be a falsification. |
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[[User:E.N.Stanway|E.N.Stanway]] ([[User talk:E.N.Stanway|talk]]) 23:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC) |
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<hr> |
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::You might want to look up "ad hominem" in the dictionary. It might also be productive to review the WP policies on good faith negotiation and NPOV.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 03:38, 20 February 2014 (UTC) |
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Yet in reality Churchill was found guilty of inventing an incident that allegedly happened at Fort Clark against the Mandan Indians in 1837. (Near Missouri river in todays North Dakota) and this story was found to be completely fabricated and that led to Churchill's being found guilty of academic misconduct. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/plag/5240451.0001.009?rgn=main;view=fulltext). |
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== external links == |
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There are other cases, proven and documented by contemporary sources, when smallpox blankets were really used to extirpate the indians and neither the use of smallpox, nor the intent to completely annihilate the indians is questioned. (http://www.umass.edu/legal/derrico/amherst/lord_jeff.html) |
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should not include blogs etc. They are there for people to read further - not to provide simple argumentation. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 03:08, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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Please reword the cited sentence so it states clearly what was questioned and proven false otherwise it is wrong and greatly misleading. (I would do it myself if i felt capable to.) |
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:Let's consider these one at a time, mostly per [[WP:ELMAYBE]]: {{xt|Sites that fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources.}}— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 03:28, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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[[Special:Contributions/176.63.176.112|176.63.176.112]] ([[User talk:176.63.176.112|talk]]) 16:01, 12 March 2017 (UTC). |
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::Nope and you must recall '''Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article.''' And '''Blogs, personal web pages and most fansites, except those written by a recognized authority.''' are "not" usable. Specifically also note '''External links in biographies of living persons must be of high quality and are judged by a higher standard than for other articles. Do not link to websites that are not fully compliant with this guideline or that contradict the spirit of WP:BLP.''' All the removed sites fail on ''all'' these grounds. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 04:01, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:None of the links below fall under the auspices of [[WP:EL]], and should be/remain removed. [[User:Thargor Orlando|Thargor Orlando]] ([[User talk:Thargor Orlando|talk]]) 14:45, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:okay, i have reworded it, now it is "It was in this book that Churchill first made the claim of an alleged incident in which the United States distributed "smallpox-infested blankets" to Indian tribes, a claim which he repeated several times over the next decade. The claim of this incident has been criticized as a falsification." It points to the particular falsification instead of denying the smallpox blankets (which are proven) altogether. However if anyone can make the text more fluent or clearer, pls dont hesitate.[[Special:Contributions/176.63.176.112|176.63.176.112]] ([[User talk:176.63.176.112|talk]]) 16:13, 12 March 2017 (UTC). |
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::Yes, that's already been stated. Do you have anything new to add to the conversation, given that we're not voting but discussing?— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 15:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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=== http://www.wardchurchill.net=== |
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As far as I can see this is a clear yes. We don't want to rely on this site to support factual statements, but it clearly meets the quoted criterion from ELMAYBE.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 03:25, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:Nope. Not his personal website per [[WP:SPS]], and not factual in nature nor allowable per [[WP:EL]] and of course '''The burden of providing this justification is on the person who wants to include an external link.''' [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 03:58, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::You're completely misconstruing SPS; it has fuck-all to do with external links. [[WP:ELNO]] has an explicit exception for this kind of case: {{xt|Except for a link to an official page of the article's subject}} You don't have to remind me of the burden. Obviously I'm attempting to meet it now.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 04:05, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::And the "Ward Churchill Solidarity Network" is '''not''' his "'''official page'''". Did you not read what it is? As it is '''not''' his '''official page''', it is '''not''' considered his '''official page''' for Wikipedia external links. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 04:08, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::Why do we think this is not his official page? There's a link where you can invite him to speak at events. [[User:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">Gamaliel</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">talk</font>]])</small> 04:17, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::For one thing '''at no point does it ascribe any direct connection to Ward Churchill''', etc. Official sites generally have a stated explicit and direct connection. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 08:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::"Official sites generally have a stated explicit and direct connection."{{cn}} Why do you think that? Is there a study on it? I'd think it would be much more likely that sites with domains like someonesname.net would carry a disclaimer if they were '''not''' official.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 13:41, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::{{ec}}SPS is still irrelevant to the question of external links. Furthermore Churchill books speaking engagements through that website, so how is it not official? He's obviously in charge of the content or why would he book his speaking engagements through it?— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 04:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::Is the fact that you can book the subject of the article for a speaking engagement not a stated explicit and direct connection to the subject of the article? [[User:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">Gamaliel</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">talk</font>]])</small> 17:51, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::Nope. "Official sites" tend to use that term -- this one specifically does ''not'' make that claim. That one can "contact" a person (no indication that the contact is not made through an intermediary on the site) does not make it the person's "official site." Note many "fan clubs: will relay letters to the person - though they are not an "official site." Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 18:06, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::::Do you have some source for this assertion you keep making? You're talking as if there's some objective definition of "official site." Is there one? If so it could settle this matter quickly. If not, we do need to discuss whether we're going to treat this as an official site.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 18:26, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::If you do not see "official" on a fan site, do you consider it "official"? Really? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard/Archive_2#Official_site] had a discussion: ''an official site is one that is controlled by the subject, not just approved by her.'', thus thie site is not "official" even if one can contact the subject of the fansite. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 18:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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I researched this one some years ago, tracing the ownership. At that time it was run by a grad student in PA, but I infer that it has Churchill's approval and perhaps participation. So it's somewhere in between a fan site and an official site in my view.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 21:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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Underlying the particular falsification would appear to be a second one, namely that the distribution of smallpox blankets by anyone in the USA ever happened at all. The notorious Fort Pitt incident was before the USA existed. There appears to be in fact zero evidence that any US citizen or agency ever did such a thing. But it's become an American myth, yet one which Ward Churchill was happy to liken to genocide. Cassandra <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/79.74.45.3|79.74.45.3]] ([[User talk:79.74.45.3#top|talk]]) 14:52, 19 December 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:"Inference" is not worth much here -- it is not registered to Churchill, is not linked directly to him at any point, and is clearly a "fan site" at best. Cheers -- but it sure is not "official." [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 21:37, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::I admit that I probably value my own inferences more highly than you would. But having read the site content for years now, it's pretty clear that the admin has access to posting private materials that only Churchill insiders would have. It's obvious--to ME--that it has Churchill's approval. While I admire WPs policies, I also think there should be some latitude for allowing editors' judgment in borderline cases, and I think this is one such case (as is the DU blog).[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 00:13, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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== Babel, babel == |
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::wardchurchill.net has a private registration through godaddy. I assume most official sites have private registration. It seems as if it's not a trivial question. E.g. [[Lucinda Williams]] links to lucindawilliams.com, which also has private registration and doesn't seem to say it's the official site, but it clearly is. How do they know, do you suppose?— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 22:08, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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As a long-time WP editor, I'm really put off by this article's excessive tirade about Churchill's heritage. It's not only un-encyclopedic, it's clearly an ad hominem exercise (as is most criticism of Churchill). A brief recap of the decades-long slurring would be adequate ... and leave room for a balanced critical description of the point-of-view he has consistently represented for all that time. Briefly said, it's currently the crappiest bio (of the living or the dead) I've encountered on Wikipedia in 14 years. [[User:Twang|Twang]] ([[User talk:Twang|talk]]) 06:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::<small>Interesting; wardchurchill.com seems to be for sale for $1600+ whereas wardchurchill.org isn't owned. Hmm....— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 22:10, 24 February 2014 (UTC)</small> |
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== External links modified (January 2018) == |
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Note: [[Wikipedia:ELN#http:.2F.2Fwww.wardchurchill.net.2F]]— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 23:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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:Sound editorial practice demands that we have affirmative evidence that a site is indeed "official" before we label it as such and provide it with that level of weight and deference. That is even more imperative in a BLP. |
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:However, that doesn't omit the possibility of including this link with a different label that is more directly supported by the material on the site and the available evidence. But that's a slightly different discussion and someone would have to establish that the site has enough useful, interesting, and high quality information that it would qualify as a good EL on its own merits (unlike official sites that almost always automatically qualify as a useful EL). [[User:ElKevbo|ElKevbo]] ([[User talk:ElKevbo|talk]]) 15:25, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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I have just modified 17 external links on [[Ward Churchill]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/821441775|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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::What form does "affirmative evidence" take? This question never occurred to me before.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 15:40, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060922112926/http://www.cu.edu/sg/messages/4218.html to https://www.cu.edu/sg/messages/4218.html |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060924200253/http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2005/44.html to http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2005/44.html |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050206103859/http://www.sdonline.org/33/ward_churchill.htm to http://www.sdonline.org/33/ward_churchill.htm |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071001015344/http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/news/churchill/indexDay5.shtml to http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/news/churchill/indexDay5.shtml |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090223203415/http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2005/may/19/keetoowah-band-says-churchill-is-honorary/ to http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2005/may/19/keetoowah-band-says-churchill-is-honorary |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071128124106/http://www.colorado.edu/news/reports/churchill/standingcommittee.html to http://www.colorado.edu/news/reports/churchill/standingcommittee.html |
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*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to https://portfolio.du.edu/portfolio/getportfoliofile?uid=86356 |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070712044609/http://www.plagiary.org/smallpox-blankets.pdf to http://www.plagiary.org/smallpox-blankets.pdf |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120629204440/http://www.colorado.edu/news/reports/churchill/report.html to http://www.colorado.edu/news/reports/churchill/report.html |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928080322/https://www.cu.edu/sg/messages/5704.html to https://www.cu.edu/sg/messages/5704.html |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930210803/http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/pdf/complaint.pdf to http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/pdf/complaint.pdf |
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*Added archive https://archive.is/20130915013857/http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/201015/346/Ward-Churchill-case-headed-to-Colorado-Supreme-Court to http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/201015/346/Ward-Churchill-case-headed-to-Colorado-Supreme-Court |
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*Added archive http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20010917071505/http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/dec95barsamian.htm to http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/dec95barsamian.htm |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070912073326/http://coloradoaim.org/Wardchurchillspreadthefunaround.htm to http://www.coloradoaim.org/Wardchurchillspreadthefunaround.htm |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050206103859/http://www.sdonline.org/33/ward_churchill.htm to http://www.sdonline.org/33/ward_churchill.htm |
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*Added archive https://archive.is/20040829135321/http://www.zmag.org/churchillaudio.html to http://www.zmag.org/churchillaudio.html |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060428033206/http://media.yaf.org/latest/03_21_06.cfm to http://media.yaf.org/latest/03_21_06.cfm |
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*Added archive https://archive.is/20130114003815/http://www.zmag.org/zspace/wardchurchill to http://www.zmag.org/zspace/wardchurchill |
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. |
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:::A solid, trustworthy claim by the site or the subject of the site that it is indeed "official" or directly controlled by the subject. We seem to be dancing all around the issue but that's what we really need. [[User:ElKevbo|ElKevbo]] ([[User talk:ElKevbo|talk]]) 15:58, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}} |
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::::The trouble is that many "official sites" contain no such claim, and yet they're used all over Wikipedia. E.g. lucindawilliams.com; there are plenty of others. Many say "official website" and many say "copyright by [nameofperson]" but many others don't. Your standard isn't universally met by sites that seem perfectly acceptable elsewhere on Wikipedia, so it can't be the proper de facto standard (obviously there's no de jure standard or we'd be having a different discussion).— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 16:12, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::I just noticed that wardchurchill.net presents itself as representing the "Ward Churchill Solidarity Network", and invites readers to "contact us". That's very explicitly a group identity. Not Churchill himself. This seals it for me--not an official website.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 23:23, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 14:09, 20 January 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::In the absence of clear and convincing evidence those other articles and sites are also open to be questioned by editors. If that were to happen, I'd expect interested editors to gather and weigh the available evidence. With a BLP the bar for evidence is raised and it's perfectly reasonable for us to insist on high quality evidence if you or others claim this site is official. To put it bluntly, the burden of proof is on those making the claim. [[User:ElKevbo|ElKevbo]] ([[User talk:ElKevbo|talk]]) 16:20, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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===Smallpox isn't caused by infected blankets=== |
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===http://www.theracetothebottom.org/ward-churchill/=== |
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The article reads: "In 2005, University of Colorado Boulder administrators ordered an investigation into seven allegations of research misconduct,[37] including three allegations of plagiarism, and four allegations of fabrication or falsification regarding the history of the Dawes Act, the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990, and statements that smallpox was intentionally spread to Native Americans by John Smith in 1614 and by the United States Army at Fort Clark in 1837 (not to be confused with the well-documented use of smallpox-infected blankets at Fort Pitt in 1764)." |
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As far as I can see this is a clear yes. We don't want to rely on this site to support factual statements, but it clearly meets the quoted criterion from ELMAYBE.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 03:25, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:Nope - it is a blog -- which is essentially a no-no per [[WP:EL]] [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 03:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::Blogs aren't "essentially a no-no." This one has some editorial control per [http://www.theracetothebottom.org/policies-disclaimer/], and the Churchill material was written by people close to the case. It seems to me, for these reasons, to be reasonably inclusible under [[WP:EL]].— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 04:08, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::I read and reread [[WP:EL]] and your exclusion that "it has ''some'' editorial control" does ''not'' stop it from being prohibited by [[WP:EL]]. Now find actual justification for it, otherwise it does not belong. Cheers. `[[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) |
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::::But first you said that it was prohibited by EL. Are you shifting the goalposts now? I gave a reason above. Will you engage with my argument?— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 04:14, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::I cited the policy -- and '''blogs as a rule are not allowed'''. No "goal [pst shifting" needed. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 08:19, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::Actual justification, as stated before and which you will not engage: It has interesting information about Churchill's career written by students and faculty who were there at the time. It gives the reader an interesting and informative perspective on events regarding the subject but is not suitable for use as a source in the article to support statements of fact.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 13:39, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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I agree, a clear yes. While a blog in name, it is actually a project of the DU law school. It was written by law professors and law students who attended the trial. This may be the only place on the web that explains much of the legal wrangling accurately. It is far more accurate than many of the newspaper accounts.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 21:20, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:The blogger was a student, and not a professor at all. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 21:34, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::There were multiple bloggers, mostly students, but several were profs. The larger point is that this was an academic exercise conducted by people with far more expertise than the newspaper reporters who covered the trial, and who give much more detailed and reliable information. It's also pretty close to NPOV. While "blogs" per se should probably be verboten in most cases, I think this one is an exception.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 00:05, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::The ''specific blogger'' who signed all the Churchill posts was identified on the site as a ''student'', not as a law professor. I trust that the list of bloggers on the site was accurate. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 00:14, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::You missed at least one professor, [[J. Robert Brown, Jr.]].[[User:The Magnificent Clean-keeper|TMCk]] ([[User talk:The Magnificent Clean-keeper|talk]]) 01:33, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::Kevin O'Brien was the other DU prof who contributed. Both attended the trial, as did the student bloggers.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 15:01, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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It is worth pointing out in the article that this is not an effective means of spreading smallpox. Smallpox is spread primarily by face to face contact, sneezing, saliva, etc.--not by sharing articles that have been used by infected people. Attempts at weaponizing the smallpox disease have failed. It is not an effective biological agent, not now, and not in the 18th century.[[Special:Contributions/107.77.207.110|107.77.207.110]] ([[User talk:107.77.207.110|talk]]) 01:47, 1 February 2018 (UTC) |
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Note: [[Wikipedia:ELN#http:.2F.2Fwww.theracetothebottom.org.2Fward-churchill.2F]]— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 23:43, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:Anyway, it happened at least once in the 1760s -- see [[Jeffery Amherst, 1st Baron Amherst]] and [[Henry Bouquet]] -- but I don't think there's any evidence it was a general or often-recurring practice. [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 02:30, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
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====Description of this link==== |
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{{u|Capitalismojo}}, why do you keep reverting back to an inaccurate description of this link while citing a guideline that has to do with the inclusion/exclusion of external links? It doesn't make sense. We're discussing above whether the link ought to be included in the external links section, but as long as it's in there, and you haven't removed it, why shouldn't it at least be described accurately?— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 21:32, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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==Where is he now?== |
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===http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/01/31/in-search-of-ward-churchill/=== |
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Or perhaps, what is he doing now? Has he retired? [[User:PaulinSaudi|''Paul, in Saudi'']] ([[User talk:PaulinSaudi|talk]]) 10:29, 21 October 2019 (UTC) |
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As far as I can see this is a clear yes. We don't want to rely on this interview to support factual statements, but it clearly meets the quoted criterion from ELMAYBE.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 03:25, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:Nope - pure editorial opinion. '''The burden of providing this justification is on the person who wants to include an external link.''' And I see no such justification. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 03:56, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::Calling this "pure editorial opinion" shows some kind of misconception on your part. It's an interview with the subject of the article. Therefore it contains "information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources." Surely you don't argue that Churchill is not a knowledgeable source about himself? Surely you didn't mean to say that his statements about himself are "pure editorial opinion"? Surely you don't think this is a reliable source for controversial facts, and thus it is reasonable that it should be included under [[WP:ELMAYBE]]. I find the information in this recent interview very useful in understanding the article's subject. I have no doubt that others will too. Thus it should be included.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 04:13, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::I'm inclined to agree with Collect. There were many opinions offered on Churchill, so I think we'd need a compelling reason to single this one out for inclusion. [[User:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">Gamaliel</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">talk</font>]])</small> 04:17, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::This isn't an opinion on Churchill, it's an interview with Churchill.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 04:20, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::I didn't look to closely, I was just going off Collect's description as "editorial opinion". Apologies, I should have looked closer. In that case, a lengthy interview with the subject of the article is a reasonable think to include in EL, so I support inclusion. [[User:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">Gamaliel</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">talk</font>]])</small> 04:22, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::Not only that - the article '''is already cited in the body of the BLP''' by the way. We do ''not'' iterate any sources already used in a BLP if one looks at [[WP:EL]] and the source remains editorial opinion in any case. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 08:22, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::What does it being a BLP have to do with whether we "iterate" sources, anyway? Also, it's not being used as a source when it's an EL. It hardly seems consistent for you to argue (a) it shouldn't be an EL because it's opinion and this is a BLP but also (b) it's already being used as a source in the article. Also, in what way is it "editorial opinion"? Whose opinion is it? I know I have '''the''' bur'''den''' to make a case for inclusion, but it's so hard to do when you only argue by assertion.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 13:37, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::::Read [[WP:EL]]: '''Sites that have been used as sources in the creation of an article should be cited in the article, and linked as references, either in-line or in a references section. Links to these source sites are not "external links" for the purposes of this guideline, and should not normally be duplicated in an external links section.''' which is fairly clear.[[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 14:30, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::::I read it. There's no need to shout. It says "not normally." I have my doubts about whether this counterpunch interview is reliable for anything in the body of the article, and think it satisfies EL:MAYBE. Have you now dropped your claim that BLP has anything to do with this? {{unsigned|Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|15:18, 24 February 2014}} |
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:::::::Really, Collect, there's no need for this gratuitous bolding. Other editors might misconstrue it as shouting. If this link is indeed already used as a source in the article, then I agree it should not be used in EL. That's the real issue here, no need for this confusing tangent about "editorial opinion". It might make sense for you to explain what you mean by that phrase in this context instead of just repeating it, if we find it necessary to discuss this matter beyond the duplication of links. [[User:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">Gamaliel</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">talk</font>]])</small> 17:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::::I have only been online for 32 years now -- and the bolding is to distinguish ''direct quotations from policy and guideline pages''. Cheers. Tell me when you have made it to 32 years <g>. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 18:08, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::::Fabuloso! I've been online for 42 years. When I came online one couldn't easily do bolding because many people were connecting over teletype machines. What do I win? Anyway, it's fine. Let's take this one out because it duplicates a reference in the body of the article. I'm not entirely happy with how it's used as a source, but that's a discussion for another subsection entirely.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 18:24, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::::: I've been online for 92 years. We couldn't bold on the telegraph, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o and we liked it]. [[User:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">Gamaliel</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Gamaliel|<font color="DarkGreen">talk</font>]])</small> 18:53, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::I just watched the first 5 seconds of that using an AAlib-based paper flipbook generator running on an emulator of Babbage's difference engine that outputs punched Jaquard loom control cards. Good times, good times.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 19:06, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:He hasn't held an academic post since he was fired from Boulder in 2007. The most recent Google News coverage is [https://www.pittsburghcurrent.com/ward-churchill/ here] in September 2018, when he spoke at an event in Pittsburgh.--'''''[[User:ianmacm|<span style="background:#88b;color:#cff;font-variant:small-caps">♦Ian<span style="background:#99c">Ma<span style="background:#aad">c</span></span>M♦</span>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ianmacm|(talk to me)]]</sup>''''' 10:36, 21 October 2019 (UTC) |
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On teletypes, one used "bell" to stress a current post. MLK's assassination got "five bells" on the AP wire. I only counted "online years" from Source/DJ/CompuServe starts. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 19:16, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::I learned to program BASIC on a teletype back in the early 70s. This interview is clearly an extremely biased take on the research misconduct controversy. Therefore, if it is included as an EL, it should balanced by other ELs that offer opposing views.[[User:Pokey5945|Pokey5945]] ([[User talk:Pokey5945|talk]]) 21:22, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::Keypunch here. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 21:34, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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==Good article reassessment== |
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:I could go either way with the other two links but this one doesn't seem like it's suitable for inclusion solely as an EL. It can and probably should be used as a source for adding or referencing material in this article but if we have to make a judgment between multiple links then this one that has only a single interview falls to the bottom of the list and should probably be excluded. [[User:ElKevbo|ElKevbo]] ([[User talk:ElKevbo|talk]]) 15:19, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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I have tagged this article for a good article reassessment. This article was listed as a good article back in 2009. Surprising. I just made some changes (reorganizing, adding information on personal life, and condensing the lead) that help, but it still doesn't fit the criteria for a good article. Too much unsourced material/original research. Also, there is little to nothing about Churchill's work or activities following the disposition of his lawsuit, so the article may need an update. I don't believe that it's well-written enough to be a good article, either. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.6.88|74.67.6.88]] ([[User talk:74.67.6.88|talk]]) 19:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC) |
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{{Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Ward Churchill/1}} |
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: I have no opinion about good article status, but noting for the record that the initial complainant, IP address 74.67.6.88, was [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/SunCrow/Archive blocked here] on 6 Feb as a sock of [[User:SunCrow]]. [[User:JoJo Anthrax|JoJo Anthrax]] ([[User talk:JoJo Anthrax|talk]]) 13:22, 15 March 2022 (UTC) |
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::We already took it out, actually, and no one seems too busted up about it, so I suppose out it will stay.— [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 15:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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Clarification needed!
[edit]As present the article says "It was in this book that Churchill first made the claim that the United States distributed "smallpox-infested blankets" to Indian tribes, a claim which he repeated several times over the next decade. The claim has been criticized as a falsification."
This reads like the whole concept of smallpox blankets used to destroy the indians is 1) an idea of Churchill, 2) is considered to be a falsification.
Yet in reality Churchill was found guilty of inventing an incident that allegedly happened at Fort Clark against the Mandan Indians in 1837. (Near Missouri river in todays North Dakota) and this story was found to be completely fabricated and that led to Churchill's being found guilty of academic misconduct. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/plag/5240451.0001.009?rgn=main;view=fulltext).
There are other cases, proven and documented by contemporary sources, when smallpox blankets were really used to extirpate the indians and neither the use of smallpox, nor the intent to completely annihilate the indians is questioned. (http://www.umass.edu/legal/derrico/amherst/lord_jeff.html)
Please reword the cited sentence so it states clearly what was questioned and proven false otherwise it is wrong and greatly misleading. (I would do it myself if i felt capable to.) 176.63.176.112 (talk) 16:01, 12 March 2017 (UTC).
- okay, i have reworded it, now it is "It was in this book that Churchill first made the claim of an alleged incident in which the United States distributed "smallpox-infested blankets" to Indian tribes, a claim which he repeated several times over the next decade. The claim of this incident has been criticized as a falsification." It points to the particular falsification instead of denying the smallpox blankets (which are proven) altogether. However if anyone can make the text more fluent or clearer, pls dont hesitate.176.63.176.112 (talk) 16:13, 12 March 2017 (UTC).
Underlying the particular falsification would appear to be a second one, namely that the distribution of smallpox blankets by anyone in the USA ever happened at all. The notorious Fort Pitt incident was before the USA existed. There appears to be in fact zero evidence that any US citizen or agency ever did such a thing. But it's become an American myth, yet one which Ward Churchill was happy to liken to genocide. Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.45.3 (talk) 14:52, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
Babel, babel
[edit]As a long-time WP editor, I'm really put off by this article's excessive tirade about Churchill's heritage. It's not only un-encyclopedic, it's clearly an ad hominem exercise (as is most criticism of Churchill). A brief recap of the decades-long slurring would be adequate ... and leave room for a balanced critical description of the point-of-view he has consistently represented for all that time. Briefly said, it's currently the crappiest bio (of the living or the dead) I've encountered on Wikipedia in 14 years. Twang (talk) 06:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
External links modified (January 2018)
[edit]Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 17 external links on Ward Churchill. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060922112926/http://www.cu.edu/sg/messages/4218.html to https://www.cu.edu/sg/messages/4218.html
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060924200253/http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2005/44.html to http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2005/44.html
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050206103859/http://www.sdonline.org/33/ward_churchill.htm to http://www.sdonline.org/33/ward_churchill.htm
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071001015344/http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/news/churchill/indexDay5.shtml to http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/news/churchill/indexDay5.shtml
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090223203415/http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2005/may/19/keetoowah-band-says-churchill-is-honorary/ to http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2005/may/19/keetoowah-band-says-churchill-is-honorary
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071128124106/http://www.colorado.edu/news/reports/churchill/standingcommittee.html to http://www.colorado.edu/news/reports/churchill/standingcommittee.html
- Added
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tag to https://portfolio.du.edu/portfolio/getportfoliofile?uid=86356 - Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070712044609/http://www.plagiary.org/smallpox-blankets.pdf to http://www.plagiary.org/smallpox-blankets.pdf
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120629204440/http://www.colorado.edu/news/reports/churchill/report.html to http://www.colorado.edu/news/reports/churchill/report.html
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928080322/https://www.cu.edu/sg/messages/5704.html to https://www.cu.edu/sg/messages/5704.html
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930210803/http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/pdf/complaint.pdf to http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/pdf/complaint.pdf
- Added archive https://archive.is/20130915013857/http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/201015/346/Ward-Churchill-case-headed-to-Colorado-Supreme-Court to http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/201015/346/Ward-Churchill-case-headed-to-Colorado-Supreme-Court
- Added archive http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20010917071505/http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/dec95barsamian.htm to http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/dec95barsamian.htm
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070912073326/http://coloradoaim.org/Wardchurchillspreadthefunaround.htm to http://www.coloradoaim.org/Wardchurchillspreadthefunaround.htm
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050206103859/http://www.sdonline.org/33/ward_churchill.htm to http://www.sdonline.org/33/ward_churchill.htm
- Added archive https://archive.is/20040829135321/http://www.zmag.org/churchillaudio.html to http://www.zmag.org/churchillaudio.html
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060428033206/http://media.yaf.org/latest/03_21_06.cfm to http://media.yaf.org/latest/03_21_06.cfm
- Added archive https://archive.is/20130114003815/http://www.zmag.org/zspace/wardchurchill to http://www.zmag.org/zspace/wardchurchill
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Smallpox isn't caused by infected blankets
[edit]The article reads: "In 2005, University of Colorado Boulder administrators ordered an investigation into seven allegations of research misconduct,[37] including three allegations of plagiarism, and four allegations of fabrication or falsification regarding the history of the Dawes Act, the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990, and statements that smallpox was intentionally spread to Native Americans by John Smith in 1614 and by the United States Army at Fort Clark in 1837 (not to be confused with the well-documented use of smallpox-infected blankets at Fort Pitt in 1764)."
It is worth pointing out in the article that this is not an effective means of spreading smallpox. Smallpox is spread primarily by face to face contact, sneezing, saliva, etc.--not by sharing articles that have been used by infected people. Attempts at weaponizing the smallpox disease have failed. It is not an effective biological agent, not now, and not in the 18th century.107.77.207.110 (talk) 01:47, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Anyway, it happened at least once in the 1760s -- see Jeffery Amherst, 1st Baron Amherst and Henry Bouquet -- but I don't think there's any evidence it was a general or often-recurring practice. AnonMoos (talk) 02:30, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Where is he now?
[edit]Or perhaps, what is he doing now? Has he retired? ''Paul, in Saudi'' (talk) 10:29, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
- He hasn't held an academic post since he was fired from Boulder in 2007. The most recent Google News coverage is here in September 2018, when he spoke at an event in Pittsburgh.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 10:36, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Good article reassessment
[edit]I have tagged this article for a good article reassessment. This article was listed as a good article back in 2009. Surprising. I just made some changes (reorganizing, adding information on personal life, and condensing the lead) that help, but it still doesn't fit the criteria for a good article. Too much unsourced material/original research. Also, there is little to nothing about Churchill's work or activities following the disposition of his lawsuit, so the article may need an update. I don't believe that it's well-written enough to be a good article, either. 74.67.6.88 (talk) 19:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • • GAN review not found
- Result: Delisted. Femke (talk) 15:58, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
Lack of citations, cleanup banners, lack of updates on post-2009 work, poor prose in areas (elaboration on the talk page) (t · c) buidhe 12:53, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- Comment. The "Writings" section definitely needs a trim / citation update that only uses primary source references as extra backup. That said, I'm not convinced "lack of updates on post-2009 work" is a problem. Google News seems to show that the only notable thing that happened after 2009 was the Supreme Court rejecting his appeal in 2013 - which is already in the article - and him showing up at U Colorado Boulder for a single 90-minute speaking / venting session in 2017, which was barely newsworthy and really just an excuse to tell his story again. Everything else seems to be retrospectives talking about the original incident, the 9/11 deal, and so on. It seems like he hasn't really done much of anything notable since 2009. (To be clear, I agree that the prose & citations in writing sections still need to be fixed for the article to stay a GA - just not the "comprehensive" concern.) SnowFire (talk) 18:50, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- Fair enough. (t · c) buidhe 19:17, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delist. No edits on the article after a month, problems remain unresolved. SnowFire (talk) 03:09, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
- Delist - this must be delisted, no improvements on warranted and reasonable buidhe and SnowFire suggestions.--౪ Santa ౪99° 03:51, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
- I have no opinion about good article status, but noting for the record that the initial complainant, IP address 74.67.6.88, was blocked here on 6 Feb as a sock of User:SunCrow. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 13:22, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
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