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Changing the 2020 census numbers

The problem with never changing the 2020 census population on the chart is that some of the MSA definitions have changed since 2020, and comparing the 2023 estimates for the current definition of an MSA to the 2020 census report for a previous definition of that MSA may be grossly misleading about any changes in population. Donald Albury 21:08, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When the new 2023 delineations were released, I manually went through each one of them and recalculated the MSAs given the new boundaries. Since MSAs are defined by county borders, I just used the source from the OMB which listed each county of the new boundaries and updated the 2020 Census figures to reflect those. The 2020 Census column in this chart is indeed the population figures given the new boundaries. Coulraphobic123 (talk) 01:12, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even worse, I see many pages with 2010 and even 2000 data. These should be removed unless there is no more recent data, right? Keystone18 (talk) 15:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would say the choices are: 1) update them; 2) place an {{Update}} or {{Update inline}} tag; 3) leave them alone because they are correct in their context (assuming they show the year the data is from). Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 15:05, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The navbox

Minor question, but in {{U.S. city population tables}}, should the numbers include Puerto Rico? Kk.urban (talk) 22:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As Puerto Rico is a part of the United States, that would seem to make sense. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 23:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Census Bureau does separate statistical areas into two categories, the United States and Puerto Rico, and so do our lists. However, it makes sense to include Puerto Rico, because it's on our pages. Kk.urban (talk) 00:24, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Can the 2023 estimates be used on respective pages, or are the 2020 full census numbers what should be used? Keystone18 (talk) 15:35, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can add estimates in addition to the 2020 count, but the 2020 count is the primary number used. Criticalthinker (talk) 17:44, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And preferably official estimate figures from the US Census Bureau, though if other estimates are used then the sources should be cited. Coulraphobic123 (talk) 02:43, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Keystone18 (talk) 21:20, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Boise City is in Oklahoma

The link for Boise, ID says Boise City, ID. Boise city is in Oklahoma. The link correctly points to Boise, ID. The tag should probably be adjusted to the correct city so that there is no confusion. 64.89.105.195 (talk) 19:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the MSA, as defined by the Office of Management and Budget and reported by the Census Bureau, is "Boise City-Nampa, ID", and of the CSA, "Boise City-Mountain Home-Ontario, ID-OR". The entry in the list is correct. Donald Albury 20:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New Map

The 2023 metropolitan and micropolitan statistical area map has now been published (https://www.census.gov/geographies/reference-maps/2023/geo/cbsa.html). Could you please update the map on the article? 141.156.171.41 (talk) 22:02, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 }}
+== Changing the 2020 census numbers ==
-== Population Accuracy ==
+The problem with never changing the 2020 census population on the chart is that some of the MSA definitions have changed since 2020, and comparing the 2023 estimates for the current definition of an MSA to the 2020 census report for a previous definition of that MSA may be grossly misleading about any changes in population. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 21:08, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
-The numbers in the table are inconsistent with numbers shown for the same figure on other Wikipedia pages. For example, SF Bay Area MSA is shown as ~4M here, but over 7M in other pages [[Special:Contributions/71.191.218.90|71.191.218.90]] ([[User talk:71.191.218.90|talk]]) 15:41, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
+:When the new 2023 delineations were released, I manually went through each one of them and recalculated the MSAs given the new boundaries. Since MSAs are defined by county borders, I just used the source from the OMB which listed each county of the new boundaries and updated the 2020 Census figures to reflect those. The 2020 Census column in this chart is indeed the population figures given the new boundaries. [[User:Coulraphobic123|Coulraphobic123]] ([[User talk:Coulraphobic123|talk]]) 01:12, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
+::Even worse, I see many pages with 2010 and even 2000 data. These should be removed unless there is no more recent data, right?  [[User:Keystone18|Keystone18]] ([[User talk:Keystone18|talk]]) 15:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
+:::I would say the choices are: 1) update them; 2) place an {{tl|Update}} or {{tl|Update inline}} tag; 3) leave them alone because they are correct in their context (assuming they show the year the data is from). [[User:StefenTower|<span style="color: green;">'''Stefen <span style="white-space: nowrap;">Tower<sub>s among the rest!</sub></span>'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:StefenTower|Gab]] • [[Special:Contributions/StefenTower|Gruntwerk]]</sup> 15:05, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
+== The navbox ==
-:Whatever is shown here are the official numbers. This is an article about official OMB-defined Metropolitan Statistical Areas. Other articles on metropolitan areas either use these delineations, exclusively, or include them in a more general understanding of a "metropolitan area." [[User:Criticalthinker|Criticalthinker]] ([[User talk:Criticalthinker|talk]]) 23:43, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
-::But the numbers being used are inaccurate population figures of these MSAs.
-::One example, is that the New Orleans-Metairie, MSA you have a population of 972k+. But the census shows to population estimate to be 1,246k. The 972k+ number is from a different categorized as the New Orleans urban (a smaller area within the overall MSA).
-::Look at New Orleans-Metairie, MSA on this table for the 2022 population estimates. It looks like the same error for every MSA.  [[Special:Contributions/2603:6011:3B00:AF04:A8AF:5A5B:FA65:172C|2603:6011:3B00:AF04:A8AF:5A5B:FA65:172C]] ([[User talk:2603:6011:3B00:AF04:A8AF:5A5B:FA65:172C|talk]]) 00:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
-:::What’s here are official numbers for urban areas. But they are NOT the official numbers for Metropolitan Statistical Areas, which this page is about. It’s not a page about urban areas. [[Special:Contributions/2603:6011:3B00:AF04:A8AF:5A5B:FA65:172C|2603:6011:3B00:AF04:A8AF:5A5B:FA65:172C]] ([[User talk:2603:6011:3B00:AF04:A8AF:5A5B:FA65:172C|talk]]) 00:33, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
-:That’s because the person running page is using population data for urban areas instead population data fo Metropolitan Statistical Areas. I posted a link to the correct data in the article, but that link was removed, but the data stays wrong.  [[Special:Contributions/2603:6011:3B00:AF04:A8AF:5A5B:FA65:172C|2603:6011:3B00:AF04:A8AF:5A5B:FA65:172C]] ([[User talk:2603:6011:3B00:AF04:A8AF:5A5B:FA65:172C|talk]]) 00:37, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
-::The defintions and boundaries for all combined statistical areas (metropolitan, micropolitan, and combined) are defined by the US Office of Management and Budget. These were only recently redefined and delineated as of July 2023, and as such, the figures have been recalculated. The new definition and boundaries for these areas can be found here [https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/OMB-Bulletin-23-01.pdf]. If you look at page 42 of the document (45 of the PDF), it begins the delineations of each of the metropolitan areas and New Orleans is on page 64 (67 of the PDF) and consists of the following parishes in Louisiana and their populations: Jefferson, Orleans, Plaquemines, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. James, and St. John the Baptist. If you are confusing metropolitan area for combined statistical area (which takes into account New Orleans as well as other surrounding statistical areas, which are also defined in the link provided), that list is currently in the process of being updated given the new 2023 definitions as listed in the link. These are the definitions and boundaries that are being used for this table, and as such, the numbers are correct and accurate.  [[User:Coulraphobic123|Coulraphobic123]] ([[User talk:Coulraphobic123|talk]]) 01:03, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
+Minor question, but in {{tl|U.S. city population tables}}, should the numbers include Puerto Rico? [[User:Kk.urban|Kk.urban]] ([[User talk:Kk.urban|talk]]) 22:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
-== Recent changes by the 2023 OMB Bulletin ==
+:As Puerto Rico is a part of the United States, that would seem to make sense. [[User:StefenTower|<span style="color: green;">'''Stefen <span style="white-space: nowrap;">Tower<sub>s among the rest!</sub></span>'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:StefenTower|Gab]] • [[Special:Contributions/StefenTower|Gruntwerk]]</sup> 23:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
-Hi there from the [[:de:Portal:Vereinigte Staaten]]! Is there any kind of a summary of all changes by the new 2023 OMB Bulletin regarding new delineations and up-/downgrades of areas to/from MSAs? As there will not take place a new census earlier than 2030, is it therefore necessary to add all the particular county inhabitant numbers of 2020, or is there anywhere a line-up of all numbers of re-defined MSAs one can refer to as a source? It is hard to keep track of things here, as a non-native English speaker. By the way, we prefer to work with census data only and want to avoid using data from an estimate. Thank you for your support. Regards [[User:Dionysos1988|Dionysos1988]] ([[User talk:Dionysos1988|talk]]) 21:51, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
+::The Census Bureau does separate statistical areas into two categories, the United States and Puerto Rico, and so do our lists. However, it makes sense to include Puerto Rico, because it's on our pages. [[User:Kk.urban|Kk.urban]] ([[User talk:Kk.urban|talk]]) 00:24, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
+==Question==
-:Perhaps this is what you're looking for?
+Can the 2023 estimates be used on respective pages, or are the 2020 full census numbers what should be used?  [[User:Keystone18|Keystone18]] ([[User talk:Keystone18|talk]]) 15:35, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
-:https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/OMB-Bulletin-23-01.pdf
-:We've discussed this above in the "Census estimates for 2023 next year" section of this talk page. [[User:Criticalthinker|Criticalthinker]] ([[User talk:Criticalthinker|talk]]) 10:27, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
-::Thank you for your reply. Actually I thought about a separate document of a summary of all changes compared to 2020. Right now I have updated the whole list. [[User:Dionysos1988|Dionysos1988]] ([[User talk:Dionysos1988|talk]]) 12:02, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
-:::No such list exists. You have to simply compare the previous delineation list to the most recent one. [[User:Criticalthinker|Criticalthinker]] ([[User talk:Criticalthinker|talk]]) 08:41, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
+:You can add estimates in addition to the 2020 count, but the 2020 count is the primary number used. [[User:Criticalthinker|Criticalthinker]] ([[User talk:Criticalthinker|talk]]) 17:44, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
-== Youngstown metropolitan area ==
-Can anyone explain why [[Mercer County, Pennsylvania]] is not listed as part of the [[Youngstown metropolitan area]], although it's included on the map, and in the census source? It's listed as a separate micropolitan statistical area, but I don't know why. [[User:Kk.urban|Kk.urban]] ([[User talk:Kk.urban|talk]]) 22:34, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
+::And preferably official estimate figures from the US Census Bureau, though if other estimates are used then the sources should be cited. [[User:Coulraphobic123|Coulraphobic123]] ([[User talk:Coulraphobic123|talk]]) 02:43, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
+:::Thank you!  [[User:Keystone18|Keystone18]] ([[User talk:Keystone18|talk]]) 21:20, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
-:The Office of Management and Budget periodically (one or twice a decade) revises the definitions of MSAs. While Mercer County was included in the Youngstown-Warren-Boardman MSA in 2013, it is not included in the Youngstown-Warren MSA as of 2023.<ref>{{Cite web |date=July 21, 2023 |title=Revised Delineations of Metropolitan Statistical Areas, Micropolitan Statistical Areas, and Guidance on the Uses of the Delineations of These Areas |url=https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/OMB-Bulletin-23-01.pdf |access-date=July 21, 2023 |website=Executive Office of the President |page=78}}</ref>
-:{{talkref}} [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 00:17, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
+== Boise City is in Oklahoma ==
-== Youngstown metropolitan area -- population error ==
-The Youngstown OH stats must be off. All three numbers (2023, 2020, % change) are exactly the same as the next entry, Savannah GA metropolitan area. The different ranking numbers also point to a transcription error. [[User:Mason.Jones|Mason.Jones]] ([[User talk:Mason.Jones|talk]]) 15:44, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
+The link for Boise, ID says Boise City, ID. Boise city is in Oklahoma. The link correctly points to Boise, ID. The tag should probably be adjusted to the correct city so that there is no confusion. [[Special:Contributions/64.89.105.195|64.89.105.195]] ([[User talk:64.89.105.195|talk]]) 19:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
-:The 2020 census population for Youngstown-Warren MSA is wrong in that list, but I have not found a 2023 population estimate for the MSA, so I did not edit the list. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 16:48, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
+:The name of the MSA, as defined by the Office of Management and Budget and reported by the Census Bureau, is "Boise City-Nampa, ID", and of the CSA, "Boise City-Mountain Home-Ontario, ID-OR". The entry in the list is correct. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 20:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
-:: I found the error and changed the figures. They were clearly listed by U.S. Census on their 2023 populations estimates webpage. [[User:Mason.Jones|Mason.Jones]] ([[User talk:Mason.Jones|talk]]) 18:15, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
-:::And I could not find it, even though I knew it had to be there. But, then, I was in a rush and had to leave for a while. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 18:49, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
+== New Map ==
-== Changing the 2020 census numbers ==
+The 2023 metropolitan and micropolitan statistical area map has now been published (https://www.census.gov/geographies/reference-maps/2023/geo/cbsa.html). Could you please update the map on the article? [[Special:Contributions/141.156.171.41|141.156.171.41]] ([[User talk:141.156.171.41|talk]]) 22:02, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
-The problem with never changing the 2020 census population on the chart is that some of the MSA definitions have changed since 2020, and comparing the 2023 estimates for the current definition of an MSA to the 2020 census report for a previous definition of that MSA may be grossly misleading about any changes in population. [[User talk:Donald Albury|Donald Albury]] 21:08, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
-:When the new 2023 delineations were released, I manually went through each one of them and recalculated the MSAs given the new boundaries. Since MSAs are defined by county borders, I just used the source from the OMB which listed each county of the new boundaries and updated the 2020 Census figures to reflect those. The 2020 Census colum in this chart is indeed the population figures given the new boundaries. [[User:Coulraphobic123|Coulraphobic123]] ([[User talk:Coulraphobic123|talk]]) 01:12, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
-== The navbox ==
-Minor question, but in {{tl|U.S. city population tables}}, should the numbers include Puerto Rico? [[User:Kk.urban|Kk.urban]] ([[User talk:Kk.urban|talk]]) 22:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
-:As Puerto Rico is a part of the United States, that would seem to make sense. [[User:StefenTower|<span style="color: green;">'''Stefen <span style="white-space: nowrap;">Tower<sub>s among the rest!</sub></span>'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:StefenTower|Gab]] • [[Special:Contributions/StefenTower|Gruntwerk]]</sup> 23:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
-::The Census Bureau does separate statistical areas into two categories, the United States and Puerto Rico, and so do our lists. However, it makes sense to include Puerto Rico, because it's on our pages. [[User:Kk.urban|Kk.urban]] ([[User talk:Kk.urban|talk]]) 00:24, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
-==Question==
-Can the 2023 estimates be used on respective pages, or are the 2020 full census numbers what should be used?  [[User:Keystone18|Keystone18]] ([[User talk:Keystone18|talk]]) 15:35, 25 April 2024 (UTC)