Talk:Greenwich: Difference between revisions
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==town and borough== |
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{{British English}} |
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Greenwich is both the name of the historic riverside town and the large borough in which it is situated. The London Borough of Greenwich also includes the towns of Woolwich, Eltham and Plumstead. The Millenium Dome and North Greenwich Station are about three miles from Greenwich Town Centre, north of Charlton. |
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== East Greenwich == |
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The University of Greenwich and the Trinity College of Music are now based in the former Naval College buildings between Greenwich Park and the river. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:195.92.198.75|195.92.198.75]] ([[User talk:195.92.198.75|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/195.92.198.75|contribs]]){{#if:23 February 2003| 23 February 2003|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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I followed the link to this page from another page for 'East Greenwich'- what you have here is a lot of stuff about Greenwich, as the tourists know it. East Greenwich is different - it has a dynamic industrial history (sorry you don't note my various books on that!) but archaeological finds in the past year look to rewrite the history of both East Greenwich and tourist Greenwich - with all its stories of royalty and myths about the navy. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.2.223.224|92.2.223.224]] ([[User talk:92.2.223.224|talk]]) 08:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==East Greenwich Library== |
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: A little late, but for future reference see [[Greenwich Peninsula]] [[User:Pterre|Pterre]] ([[User talk:Pterre|talk]]) 13:44, 2 October 2011 (UTC) |
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== Anachronism ? == |
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I have deleted the image of East Greenwich Library, as it is non free. Please take another free picture if you want to keep it. [[User:Justinc|Justinc]] 20:47, 26 September 2005 (UTC) |
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I know that I should just rewrite the stuff, but haven´t got the time required at the moment. |
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==Jack Barret== |
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There are some grave inconsistencies in this, as an example this one : |
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"Anne of Denmark had a house built by Inigo Jones on the hill above, overlooking the hospital" |
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I know how this can be read, seen from today´s point of view, but phrases like this does indeed make the understanding of the history wrong. |
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Anne was long dead when Charles, who commissioned the hospital, was born. So how could she build a house overlooking this hospital ??? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.45.233.17|82.45.233.17]] ([[User talk:82.45.233.17|talk]]) 10:10, 28 January 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Coordinate error == |
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Removed "Jack Barret born in Greenwich born 1989 he is mad chill." [[User:Ninevah|Ninevah]] 23:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC) |
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{{tlc|geodata-check}} |
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==Pronunciation== |
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The following coordinate fixes are needed for Grenwich-0,0,0,0 —[[Special:Contributions/77.98.211.58|77.98.211.58]] ([[User talk:77.98.211.58|talk]]) 20:54, 18 April 2011 (UTC) |
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Most locals pronounce Greenwich more like "gren-idge" (to rhyme with "fridge") than "gren-itch", but I'm not sure what that should look like in IPA, so I've not modified anything... [[User:Eddpayne|edd]] 20:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC) |
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:And so they are, already. Please explain your request more fully below and remove the "tlc|" from the {{tlp|geodata-check}} tag when you have done so. Regards, [[User:TransporterMan|'''<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; font-size:small; color:blue;">T<span style="font-size:x-small;">RANSPORTER</span>M<span style="font-size:x-small;">AN</span></span>''']] ([[User talk:TransporterMan#top|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; font-size:x-small;">TALK</span>]]) 13:59, 21 April 2011 (UTC) |
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:I've taken out the phrase 'by the locals'. Do we say "New York pronounced 'noo york' by the locals"? How the locals say it is how it is. |
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:Eddpayne is correct, 'gren-idge' would be the way any local would say it . If you weren’t from South East London you might go for 'gren-itch'. Only a lost American tourist would pronounce the 'w'. [[User:Junius|Junius]] 12:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC) |
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== Lord Romney == |
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:There seems to be a strong view that 'grenn-idge' is the way the locals pronounce it, and a sound opinion that 'how the locals say it is how it is'. And yet there's still no mention of this pronunciation in the article; just 'grenn-itch' and 'grinn-itch'. [[User:Russ London|Russ London]] 19:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC) |
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This figure, mentioned as having power to charter the original market in 1700, is identifiable as [[Henry Sydney, 1st Earl of Romney]] because {a} he was alive in 1700, (b) he seems to have been the only Earl Romney with the name Henry, and (c) he held important offices including [[Groom of the Stole]] and [[Master-General of the Ordnance]]. It is reasonable to surmise that the latter post, with connections to the nearby [[Royal Arsenal|Woolwich Warren]] and to the naval establishment, was the basis of his control over the Greenwich land. It would be preferable to replace the guesswork with a specific citation. Cheers, [[User:Bjenks|Bjenks]] ([[User talk:Bjenks|talk]]) 07:08, 23 December 2011 (UTC) |
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::'How the locals say it is how it is' is somewhat debatable. New Yorkers say "Noo Yoik", Liverpudlians say "Liverpewel" and south-east Londoners also say "Ew'am" (for [[Eltham, London|Eltham]]). Is there an official Wikipedia policy we could turn to here? [[User:Mattmm|Mattmm]] 15:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC) |
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== Coordinate error == |
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Lol, New Yoik would be if the word was properly New Yerk. You're thinking of 'yowuck' |
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Does anyone know WHY greenwich has such an odd pronunciation? I can only assume the word was actually green wich (which means green beach or something, right?) in antiquity.. |
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{{tlc|geodata-check}} |
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Isn't the bottom line that no-one really says "grin", everyone (with an idea) says "gren" or thereabouts, so surely the article should be updated? |
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The following coordinate fixes are needed for |
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:''Longman Pronunciation Dictionary by [[John C. Wells]]'' gives 'gren ɪtʃ, with 'grɪn ɪtʃ and 'gren ɪdʒ as alternatives, or gren-itch, grin-itch, gren-idge in "normal" spelling. [[User:LDHan|LDHan]] 16:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::Yeah it should be gren-idge, some of the train announcers (about 10 years ago) would pronouce the w that annoyed me and I was only 8 lol [[User:Wolfmankurd|Wolfmankurd]] 20:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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I've added a pronunciation sound file with the standard pronunciation (as per Wells) of /'grenɪtʃ/. [[User:Hassocks5489|Hassocks5489]] ([[User talk:Hassocks5489|talk]]) 22:24, 1 January 2008 (UTC) |
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==Location of Greenwich== |
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—{{subst: vivek}} |
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OS give the location of Greenwich as TQ395775 which does not appear to be directly on the meridian. [[User:MRSC|MRSC]] • [[User_talk:MRSC|Talk]] 09:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC) |
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the errors is that the greenwich is nor in eastern hemisphere neither in western hemisphere its longitude is just 00°00′00″ |
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Well the meridian goes through the middle of the park, a short way from the town centre. [[User:Artybrad|Artybrad]] 23:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC) |
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:Well, actually, some of Greenwich is in the Eastern Hemisphere, and some of it is in the Western Hemisphere. In any event, 0° can be expressed as either 0° E or 0° W, so the coordinates in the article are not incorrect. It is a peculiarity of the infobox used in the article that if one enters 0.0000 in the longitude field, the longitude is displayed as 0.0000 E. [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 19:31, 8 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== |
== Market photo == |
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The photo of the market is not at all representative of the market or its environs. (In fact, I suspect it might be a photo of the small market by the clock tower rather then the market in Greenwich town centre). Does anybody have a suitable replacement? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/135.196.89.57|135.196.89.57]] ([[User talk:135.196.89.57|talk]]) 12:58, 27 August 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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When was it founded and when was it annexed by London? |
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:It's surprising there is no history section- at the moment it looks like a tourist guide...[[User:Gustav von Humpelschmumpel|Gustav von Humpelschmumpel]] 15:25, 26 May 2007 (UTC) |
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::Is that a bit better? Probably needs a copyed, and someone else might want to put a slightly different spin on it. There's the wider history of the boro' to consider too, it became popular again from about 1750, and many of the houses (on the hill) date from that period into the Georgian era. The history of the market is worth considering too, I think it's Carolinian. There's the almshouse (below) and also Greenwich quay and the sea capts' houses. Oh, and a para on the observatory. Also, more varied refs to be cited. [[User:Kbthompson|Kbthompson]] 10:51, 29 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== |
== Introductory inconsistencies == |
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The second paragraph of the article is almost entirely incorrect or misleading. |
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*Added pedestrian, cycle, revised river travel. |
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*Removed extraneous bus detail, timetables and frequency should be on the bus page (they don't all exist, but that's where they should be) |
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HTH [[User:Kbthompson|Kbthompson]] 10:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC) |
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It is incorrect to say that Greenwich is in East London, and misleading to say that it is sometimes described as such (since such description, if it happens, would be erroneous). There are online examples of Greenwich being described as in "East London", but they appear to be mentions in passing, rather than authoritative claims of fact. One of them has even been corrected since the article was referenced. Referring to the Wikipedia article on the subject of [[East London]], it can be seen that the whole of East London lies north of the Thames, whereas Greenwich lies on the south bank of the Thames. It may be technically true to say that Greenwich is sometimes described as being in East London, but any such description is wrong and has no place being repeated in an encyclopaedic article. |
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==Anomoly== |
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Can anyone explain why there is a reference to "Trinity College" in a 1689 will [http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=870727&queryType=1&resultcount=4 here] when the Trinity College of Music was founded in 1872 and the Trinity Hospital has supposedly only been known as "Trinity Hospital" [http://www.greenwich.gov.uk/Greenwich/LeisureCulture/Architecture/TrinityHospital.htm]? [[User:Gustav von Humpelschmumpel|Gustav von Humpelschmumpel]] 23:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:Many almshouses were known as ''colleges'' at their establishment, I think the Charterhouse almshouse is much the same. The model was an Oxbridge College - residents had rooms but ate and (were required to) worship in common. That's the best I can offer. [[User:Kbthompson|Kbthompson]] 10:46, 29 May 2007 (UTC) |
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It is incorrect to say that Greenwich is one of the five boroughs of the London Docklands. This article is about Greenwich, and it's clear from the first paragraph that a separate article exists to cover the [[Royal Borough of Greenwich]], which is indeed one of the five boroughs mentioned. Greenwich itself, which this article is about, is a small town in the extreme northwest corner of the Royal Borough of Greenwich. It is not a borough, let alone one of the five boroughs of the London Docklands. |
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==Top image== |
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: Fixed. [[User:Paul W|Paul W]] ([[User talk:Paul W|talk]]) 13:32, 26 September 2016 (UTC) |
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Do we really have to have the boring map in the infobox- surely the article would look much more attractive with a photo (such as the one on the UNESCO box?). [[User:Gustav von Humpelschmumpel|Gustav von Humpelschmumpel]] |
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:I moved the box and it looks a lot better IMO. It would be nice if we could get the other London boxes to give a space for an image as all the U.S. ones do (i.e. [[New York City]], [[Chicago]]). [[User:Gustav von Humpelschmumpel|Gustav von Humpelschmumpel]] 12:27, 27 May 2007 (UTC) |
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It is incorrect to say that Greenwich is connected to Canary Wharf (or anywhere else) by the East London Line. The East London Line does not pass through Greenwich, nor does it pass through Canary Wharf. The Docklands Light Railway, which is a completely separate rail system, connects Greenwich and Canary Wharf, as correctly noted in the Transport section towards the end of the article. |
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==Sister cities?== |
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:I have fixed this. [[User:Paul W|Paul W]] ([[User talk:Paul W|talk]]) 13:27, 26 September 2016 (UTC) |
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It's a long time since I've made any major edits and I don't want to delete the paragraph only for it to be rolled back. Someone with more recent experience than me may wish to make the necessary updates. Thank you in advance. |
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I would urge the people helping to maintain the page subject to add its list of sister cities. --enm 20:50, 11 Sep. 2007 (UTC) |
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[[User:Arcman|Arcman]] ([[User talk:Arcman|talk]]) 11:17, 25 September 2016 (UTC) |
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:The town is not a political entity. Its parent, the [[London Borough of Greenwich]] would be the appropriate place for such information. [[User:Kbthompson|Kbthompson]] ([[User talk:Kbthompson|talk]]) 12:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/5mYjJHOZA?url=http://www.greenwich.gov.uk/Greenwich/LeisureCulture/RoyalGreenwich/RoyalGreenwich.htm to http://www.greenwich.gov.uk/Greenwich/LeisureCulture/RoyalGreenwich/RoyalGreenwich.htm |
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==Greenwich Heritage Centre== |
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There seems to be a problem with the website - can someone else check it. [[User:Jackiespeel|Jackiespeel]] ([[User talk:Jackiespeel|talk]]) 09:33, 2 May 2017 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090414202633/http://www.greenwich.gov.uk/Greenwich/Travel/LocalTravelServices/RiverBoatCruise.htm to http://www.greenwich.gov.uk/Greenwich/Travel/LocalTravelServices/RiverBoatCruise.htm |
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== Origin of place names == |
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"Some vestiges of the Danish camps may be traced in the names of Eastcombe and Westcombe". The source for this from 1796, but it is contradicted in article [[Westcombe Park]], that states: "Westcombe is a topographical place name, derived from Combe, a common old English word for 'valley'". I think the last one makes more sense. --[[User:Finn Bjørklid|Finn Bjørklid]] ([[User talk:Finn Bjørklid|talk]]) 22:03, 28 January 2018 (UTC)] |
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Combe is in fact a Brythonic name element, predating even the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons, although the East & West are certainly Old English. Unfortunately the claim is correctly cited from a source that appears reputable so probably cannot be removed without a source contradicting the existing citation. Sadly I doubt any such source exists that is specific enough to count, regardless, I hope the article at [[combe]] is enough evidence that the claim in the article is absurd and so I have removed it [[User:Tristanjlroberts|Tristanjlroberts]] ([[User talk:Tristanjlroberts|talk]]) 15:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC) |
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== Move discussion in progress == |
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There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Greenwich (disambiguation)#Requested move 21 February 2021 |Talk:Greenwich (disambiguation)]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Greenwich (disambiguation) crosspost --> —[[User:RMCD bot|RMCD bot]] 21:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC) |
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East Greenwich
[edit]I followed the link to this page from another page for 'East Greenwich'- what you have here is a lot of stuff about Greenwich, as the tourists know it. East Greenwich is different - it has a dynamic industrial history (sorry you don't note my various books on that!) but archaeological finds in the past year look to rewrite the history of both East Greenwich and tourist Greenwich - with all its stories of royalty and myths about the navy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.223.224 (talk) 08:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
- A little late, but for future reference see Greenwich Peninsula Pterre (talk) 13:44, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Anachronism ?
[edit]I know that I should just rewrite the stuff, but haven´t got the time required at the moment. There are some grave inconsistencies in this, as an example this one : "Anne of Denmark had a house built by Inigo Jones on the hill above, overlooking the hospital" I know how this can be read, seen from today´s point of view, but phrases like this does indeed make the understanding of the history wrong. Anne was long dead when Charles, who commissioned the hospital, was born. So how could she build a house overlooking this hospital ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.233.17 (talk) 10:10, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
Coordinate error
[edit]{{geodata-check}}
The following coordinate fixes are needed for Grenwich-0,0,0,0 —77.98.211.58 (talk) 20:54, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
- And so they are, already. Please explain your request more fully below and remove the "tlc|" from the {{geodata-check}} tag when you have done so. Regards, TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 13:59, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Lord Romney
[edit]This figure, mentioned as having power to charter the original market in 1700, is identifiable as Henry Sydney, 1st Earl of Romney because {a} he was alive in 1700, (b) he seems to have been the only Earl Romney with the name Henry, and (c) he held important offices including Groom of the Stole and Master-General of the Ordnance. It is reasonable to surmise that the latter post, with connections to the nearby Woolwich Warren and to the naval establishment, was the basis of his control over the Greenwich land. It would be preferable to replace the guesswork with a specific citation. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 07:08, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Coordinate error
[edit]{{geodata-check}}
The following coordinate fixes are needed for
—{{subst: vivek}}
the errors is that the greenwich is nor in eastern hemisphere neither in western hemisphere its longitude is just 00°00′00″
- Well, actually, some of Greenwich is in the Eastern Hemisphere, and some of it is in the Western Hemisphere. In any event, 0° can be expressed as either 0° E or 0° W, so the coordinates in the article are not incorrect. It is a peculiarity of the infobox used in the article that if one enters 0.0000 in the longitude field, the longitude is displayed as 0.0000 E. Deor (talk) 19:31, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
Market photo
[edit]The photo of the market is not at all representative of the market or its environs. (In fact, I suspect it might be a photo of the small market by the clock tower rather then the market in Greenwich town centre). Does anybody have a suitable replacement? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.196.89.57 (talk) 12:58, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Introductory inconsistencies
[edit]The second paragraph of the article is almost entirely incorrect or misleading.
It is incorrect to say that Greenwich is in East London, and misleading to say that it is sometimes described as such (since such description, if it happens, would be erroneous). There are online examples of Greenwich being described as in "East London", but they appear to be mentions in passing, rather than authoritative claims of fact. One of them has even been corrected since the article was referenced. Referring to the Wikipedia article on the subject of East London, it can be seen that the whole of East London lies north of the Thames, whereas Greenwich lies on the south bank of the Thames. It may be technically true to say that Greenwich is sometimes described as being in East London, but any such description is wrong and has no place being repeated in an encyclopaedic article.
It is incorrect to say that Greenwich is one of the five boroughs of the London Docklands. This article is about Greenwich, and it's clear from the first paragraph that a separate article exists to cover the Royal Borough of Greenwich, which is indeed one of the five boroughs mentioned. Greenwich itself, which this article is about, is a small town in the extreme northwest corner of the Royal Borough of Greenwich. It is not a borough, let alone one of the five boroughs of the London Docklands.
- Fixed. Paul W (talk) 13:32, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
It is incorrect to say that Greenwich is connected to Canary Wharf (or anywhere else) by the East London Line. The East London Line does not pass through Greenwich, nor does it pass through Canary Wharf. The Docklands Light Railway, which is a completely separate rail system, connects Greenwich and Canary Wharf, as correctly noted in the Transport section towards the end of the article.
- I have fixed this. Paul W (talk) 13:27, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
It's a long time since I've made any major edits and I don't want to delete the paragraph only for it to be rolled back. Someone with more recent experience than me may wish to make the necessary updates. Thank you in advance. Arcman (talk) 11:17, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
External links modified
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Greenwich Heritage Centre
[edit]There seems to be a problem with the website - can someone else check it. Jackiespeel (talk) 09:33, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
External links modified
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Origin of place names
[edit]"Some vestiges of the Danish camps may be traced in the names of Eastcombe and Westcombe". The source for this from 1796, but it is contradicted in article Westcombe Park, that states: "Westcombe is a topographical place name, derived from Combe, a common old English word for 'valley'". I think the last one makes more sense. --Finn Bjørklid (talk) 22:03, 28 January 2018 (UTC)]
Combe is in fact a Brythonic name element, predating even the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons, although the East & West are certainly Old English. Unfortunately the claim is correctly cited from a source that appears reputable so probably cannot be removed without a source contradicting the existing citation. Sadly I doubt any such source exists that is specific enough to count, regardless, I hope the article at combe is enough evidence that the claim in the article is absurd and so I have removed it Tristanjlroberts (talk) 15:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Move discussion in progress
[edit]There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Greenwich (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC)