Talk:Filipino people: Difference between revisions
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== Revert adding sports figures to the infobox photo == |
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== hmm..that's wierd. == |
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in [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Filipino_people&diff=prev&oldid=600705874 this] revert I was intending to remove just [[Tim Tebow]], as my understanding is that he is not Filipino. I inadvertantly removed several others who are Filipino as well, though. I'll leave it to other editors to restore those photos if that is appropriate. It seems to me as if the addition ought to have gotten consensus here before being done. I haven't followed it, but hasn't there been quite a bit of "churn" in the infobox photos here? [[User:Wtmitchell|Wtmitchell]] [[User talk:Wtmitchell|(talk)]] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 08:11, 22 March 2014 (UTC) |
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==What's this Mestizo bias in the infobox?== |
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:After digging, I see that the [[Filipino people]] article asserted the population of the Philippines to be 94M, citing [http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2794.htm this source] (which says that the 2010 estimate was 94.01M, and which is probably one of many sources asserting somewhat differing figures), and that the [[Visayans]] article asserts that there were 98 million Visayans as of 2010. That first article speaks of the number of persons resident in the Philippines. That second article speaks of the number of people belonging to the Visayan ethnic group. Some portions of those two universes overlap, and some do not. Checking this, I found that the cite supporting the figure of 98M in the ''Visayans'' article did not support the assertion, and I have placed a {{tl|fv}} tag in the article. [[User:Wtmitchell|Wtmitchell]] [[User talk:Wtmitchell|(talk)]] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 21:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC) |
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So it's come to my attention that somebody keeps reverting my edits, and replacing them with every single random Mestizo Filipino they can find. Listen, there are like already four Mestizos in this infobox, and perhaps [[Muhammad Kudarat|Sultan Kudarat]]'s legitimacy comes to the fact that he was proclaimed a Philippine national hero by Ferdinand Marcos, probably the ONLY one as a native of Mindanao. |
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== Austronesian == |
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Just a thought. Isn't it erroneous to say that "Americans" are white people that descended from the Anglo-Saxons. Although majority of Americans are, it is erroneous to say so since there are Americans that do not descend from the Anglo-Saxons or are even white. Safe to say, not all Filipinos are descended from Austronesians. You cannot classify Enrique Iglesias, Apple d App or Joseph Estrada or Henry Sy as Austronesian. You cannot classify Filipinos as a race but a nationality that descended from many races. I am proud to be Filipino but I cannot classify myelf as Austronesian. And let's be fair, the aboriginal Negritoes are Filipinos too! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/101.112.21.237|101.112.21.237]] ([[User talk:101.112.21.237|talk]]) 04:17, 29 March 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== I Have Made Changes to the Images/Mosaic Discussion Section == |
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: Well, Ausronesian people are simply a linguistic group. They speak Austronesian languages as a native language. There's many Filipinos with European descent they are all Austronesians. It's not an ethnicity. Filipinos, Malays and Hawaiians are all seperate ethnicities within the Austronesian linguistic group. You see "Austro-" means "sailor", and maritime Southeast Asia is all islands, thus Austronesian simply is another word for "sailing islands". The languages in the Austronesian family are the "sailing languages" just like the Italic-Romance language are the "love languages". Iglesias simply has Austronesian origin since his mother is Filipino. Austronesian is just a race. [[User:PacificWarrior101|PacificWarrior101]] ([[User talk:PacificWarrior101|talk]]) 04:49, 31 March 2012 (UTC)PacificWarrior101 |
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As you people have known, a huge edit war took place between I and some IP user from Britain, faking to be an embassy worker and a worker for the [[King of Spain]]. So here is a section, for discussions regarding the people on the mosaic and infobox simply to prevent another huge edit war from taking place. |
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::Actually Austronesian means "South Islander" from Greek (cf. Australia, from ''Terra Australis'' "southern land"; Polynesia, "many islands"; Micronesia, "tiny islands"). "Romance" in Romance language is also derived from the city (and empire) [[Rome]]. The connotations of love was because Latin-derived languages were used in the middle ages for stories about adventures of knights, which later extended to love stories. -- <small>[[User:Obsidian Soul|<font color=0>'''O'''</font><font color=gray>BSIDIAN</font>]]</small><font size="3" face =times new roman>†</font><small>[[User talk:Obsidian Soul|<font color=0>'''S'''</font><font color=gray>OUL</font>]]</small> 07:58, 31 March 2012 (UTC) |
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So, I have added [[Muhammad Kudarat|Sultan Kudarat]] in favor of [[José María of Manila]], since is he the only Philippine national hero from the Moro region. Additionally I have also added [[Aleem Said Ahmad Basher|Said Basher]] albeit he is a national Islamic imam, in to accompany the existing Roman Catholic priests ([[Pedro Calungsod]] and [[Francisca del Espíritu Santo Fuentes]]). This equalizes it, two Roman Catholics and two Muslims. |
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::: Yes, ''Romance'' originates from the fact that the Spanish, Portuguese and Italian (etc) languages all descended from Latin, the Roman language. But these languages later became associated with love and drama, and literally. Which is why they are also called the "love language" or "sexy languages" and thus the "Romance" name fits them exactly right for two reasons. Roman-Latin descent and use for love and drama languages/movies. A lot of places that end with "-nesia" are Greek and Latin descneded. ''Indonesian'' literally can mean "indegenous islands" or "Indian islands". "Indo-" has been used LOTS of times. There's french Indochina. The Slavic languages are known as the "manly languages". [[User:PacificWarrior101|PacificWarrior101]] ([[User talk:PacificWarrior101|talk]]) 04:21, 1 April 2012 (UTC)PacificWarrior101 |
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Also, I have put [[Jesús A. Villamor]] since he was a prominent Filipino fighter during World War II. |
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::But yes, Austronesian is more inclusive than Anglo-Saxon, as it's both an ethnic and linguistic classification. It's the predominant "base" ethnolinguistic group and enumerating different ethnicities and numerous admixtures would be far too complicated. You can not also restrict its definition to mere nationality or "race". The former would exclude Filipinos that have since been assimilated or migrated to other countries and adopted another nationality (e.g. the Filipino populations of Guam, Palau, Hawaii, etc.), and the latter is an arbitrary classification assigned externally (unlike ethnicity which is self-identified) and would exclude naturalized Filipinos that did not descend from native stock even if they refer to themselves as such. A more accurate comparison would be to [[Germanic peoples]] or [[Uralic peoples]] rather than Anglo-Saxon or American. -- <small>[[User:Obsidian Soul|<font color=0>'''O'''</font><font color=gray>BSIDIAN</font>]]</small><font size="3" face =times new roman>†</font><small>[[User talk:Obsidian Soul|<font color=0>'''S'''</font><font color=gray>OUL</font>]]</small> 07:58, 31 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Any opposing opinions, objections should be discussed on this section. [[User:PacificWarrior101|PacificWarrior101]] ([[User talk:PacificWarrior101|talk]]) 16:56, 19 May 2014 (UTC)PacificWarrior101 |
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== Regions with significant populations (2014-9 revision) == |
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::::True.-- <small>[[User:Obsidian Soul|<font color=0>'''O'''</font><font color=gray>BSIDIAN</font>]]</small><font size="3" face =times new roman>†</font><small>[[User talk:Obsidian Soul|<font color=0>'''S'''</font><font color=gray>OUL</font>]]</small> 04:54, 7 April 2012 (UTC) |
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Seeing a problem with some of the figures in this list, I [[WP:BOLD]]ly revised the whole list. For those who want to check out my changes, generally what I did was this: |
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== Filipino article on Ethnipedia == |
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#I located the latest "Stock Estimate of Overseas Filipinos" [http://www.cfo.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1340:stock-estimate-of-overseas-filipinos&catid=134 here]. It was the 2012 estimate [http://www.cfo.gov.ph/images/stories/pdf/StockEstimate2012.pdf here] |
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#I tried to verify each figure in the list using the source cited for it |
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#If I was able to verify the figure, I compared it with the Stock Estimate figure and made a judgement about which figure to use |
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#If I was not able to verify the figure in the list, I used the stock estimate figure |
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#I then manually sorted the list into order by the population figure |
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#I then compared the sorted list with figures in the 2012 stock estimate, adding entries from the stock estimate into the list (I added Singapore, Brunei, Macau, Jordan, Algeria, Angola, Equatorial Guinea, perhaps others, using "xx" for the inserted number of the item) |
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#I then renumbered the list items sequentially, removing items numbered higher than 35 from the list (the template currently displays only 32 entries) |
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There are some obvious problems with this |
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Check it out. |
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* Using the stock guide figure counts only [[Philippine Overseas Employment Administration|POEA]] Filipinos in a country. This is probably close to correct for most countries, and wildly incorrect for some countries. |
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* Figures from some other sources are problematic. For example, the Australia figure is for persons in Australia who were born in the Philippines. This miscounts non-filipinos born in the Philippines who happen to reside in Australia as Filipinos, and miscounts Filipinos born in Australia as non-filipinos. |
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But then, we're looking for reasonable estimates with source support, not exact headcount figures. [[User:Wtmitchell|Wtmitchell]] [[User talk:Wtmitchell|(talk)]] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 21:36, 23 July 2014 (UTC) |
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==Move discussion in progress== |
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ethnipedia.wikia.com <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:PacificWarrior101|PacificWarrior101]] ([[User talk:PacificWarrior101|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/PacificWarrior101|contribs]]) 04:45, 31 March 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Belizean people#Requested move 2 April 2015 |Talk:Belizean people]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Belizean people crosspost --> —[[User:RMCD bot|RMCD bot]] 12:59, 2 April 2015 (UTC) |
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== Asking for permission to remove Charice and Bruno Mars? == |
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A singer with a prostitute-image (Charice) does not make a good representation of Filipinos. Bruno Mars isn't even full-Filipino. I doubt he even speaks any Philippine language as a native language. Language is one of the key traits that defines an ethnicity otherwise it just becomes descent/ancestry. I understand that nobody is 100% in reality, but Bruno Mars is half Filipino and half Puerto Rican. People like Jose Rizal do count because most of his ancestors are from the Philippines, but yes he has Hispanic descent. I think Bruno Mars should go on the [[Filipino-American]] article. Someone like [[Brian Viloria]] should replace Bruno Mars or Charice. Also, where did Lapu-Lapu go too? He's regarded as one of the first national heroes of the Philippines because he was the first to resist colonial rule? Where did he go? There's some unnecessarry people in the infobox. Not because of personal interests, but it's just logics. We got a prostitute-like (not exactly prostitute but LIKE) singer, and a half-Puerto Rican taking place of a national hero (Lapu-Lapu) and example of a proud Filipino born outside the Philippines (Viloria). Viloria is born in Hawaii, but his parents are from the Philippines and he still speaks Tagalog as a native language. Viloria is even proud that he attains Filipino citizenship. This is...kind of ridiculous. [[User:PacificWarrior101|PacificWarrior101]] ([[User talk:PacificWarrior101|talk]]) 06:05, 13 April 2012 (UTC)PacificWarrior101 |
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:Nobody responds today, I'm changing it. [[User:PacificWarrior101|PacificWarrior101]] ([[User talk:PacificWarrior101|talk]]) 12:36, 13 April 2012 (UTC)PacificWarrior101 |
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== Can we clean up this article? == |
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It frequently includes links to pages not remotely relevant to the value of the article, e.g. universities and journals. The writing style should also be cleaned up to remove redundant information, and make it more readily understandable. |
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The article cites a lot of references, but it interprets the data therein liberally, often arriving at extremely subjective and oversimplified conclusions. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/202.92.128.30|202.92.128.30]] ([[User talk:202.92.128.30|talk]]) 19:10, 11 October 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Revert adding sports figures to the infobox photo
[edit]in this revert I was intending to remove just Tim Tebow, as my understanding is that he is not Filipino. I inadvertantly removed several others who are Filipino as well, though. I'll leave it to other editors to restore those photos if that is appropriate. It seems to me as if the addition ought to have gotten consensus here before being done. I haven't followed it, but hasn't there been quite a bit of "churn" in the infobox photos here? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 08:11, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
What's this Mestizo bias in the infobox?
[edit]So it's come to my attention that somebody keeps reverting my edits, and replacing them with every single random Mestizo Filipino they can find. Listen, there are like already four Mestizos in this infobox, and perhaps Sultan Kudarat's legitimacy comes to the fact that he was proclaimed a Philippine national hero by Ferdinand Marcos, probably the ONLY one as a native of Mindanao.
You might as well rename this article "Catholic Mestizos of Southeast Asia" if you are going to fill the infobox with 7/10 Mestizo Catholics. PacificWarrior101 (talk) 05:00, 18 April 2014 (UTC)PacificWarrior101
Here we go again, same idiot reverting my changes in a pathetic attempt to make Filipinos look Hispanic. PacificWarrior101 (talk) 02:49, 4 May 2014 (UTC)PacificWarrior101
I Have Made Changes to the Images/Mosaic Discussion Section
[edit]As you people have known, a huge edit war took place between I and some IP user from Britain, faking to be an embassy worker and a worker for the King of Spain. So here is a section, for discussions regarding the people on the mosaic and infobox simply to prevent another huge edit war from taking place.
So, I have added Sultan Kudarat in favor of José María of Manila, since is he the only Philippine national hero from the Moro region. Additionally I have also added Said Basher albeit he is a national Islamic imam, in to accompany the existing Roman Catholic priests (Pedro Calungsod and Francisca del Espíritu Santo Fuentes). This equalizes it, two Roman Catholics and two Muslims.
Also, I have put Jesús A. Villamor since he was a prominent Filipino fighter during World War II.
Any opposing opinions, objections should be discussed on this section. PacificWarrior101 (talk) 16:56, 19 May 2014 (UTC)PacificWarrior101
Regions with significant populations (2014-9 revision)
[edit]Seeing a problem with some of the figures in this list, I WP:BOLDly revised the whole list. For those who want to check out my changes, generally what I did was this:
- I located the latest "Stock Estimate of Overseas Filipinos" here. It was the 2012 estimate here
- I tried to verify each figure in the list using the source cited for it
- If I was able to verify the figure, I compared it with the Stock Estimate figure and made a judgement about which figure to use
- If I was not able to verify the figure in the list, I used the stock estimate figure
- I then manually sorted the list into order by the population figure
- I then compared the sorted list with figures in the 2012 stock estimate, adding entries from the stock estimate into the list (I added Singapore, Brunei, Macau, Jordan, Algeria, Angola, Equatorial Guinea, perhaps others, using "xx" for the inserted number of the item)
- I then renumbered the list items sequentially, removing items numbered higher than 35 from the list (the template currently displays only 32 entries)
There are some obvious problems with this
- Using the stock guide figure counts only POEA Filipinos in a country. This is probably close to correct for most countries, and wildly incorrect for some countries.
- Figures from some other sources are problematic. For example, the Australia figure is for persons in Australia who were born in the Philippines. This miscounts non-filipinos born in the Philippines who happen to reside in Australia as Filipinos, and miscounts Filipinos born in Australia as non-filipinos.
But then, we're looking for reasonable estimates with source support, not exact headcount figures. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 21:36, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Move discussion in progress
[edit]There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Belizean people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 12:59, 2 April 2015 (UTC)