Talk:Ahmad Shah Massoud: Difference between revisions
Files used on this page or its Wikidata item are up for deletion |
GreenC bot (talk | contribs) Add {{reflist-talk}} to #Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2024 (via reftalk bot) |
||
(30 intermediate revisions by 18 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{Talk header}} |
|||
{{Vital article|class=C|level=5|link=Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Military personnel, revolutionaries, and activists|anchor=Asia (41 articles)}} |
|||
{{Round in circles|search=yes}} |
{{Round in circles|search=yes}} |
||
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|vital=yes|living=n|listas=Massoud, Ahmad Shah|1= |
|||
{{talkheader|archive_age=60|archive_bot=Lowercase sigmabot III}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Military history |
|||
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1= |
|||
|class =C |
|||
<!-- B-Class 5-criteria checklist --> |
|||
|B1 <!-- Referencing and citations --> =n |
|B1 <!-- Referencing and citations --> =n |
||
|B2 <!-- Coverage and accuracy --> =y |
|B2 <!-- Coverage and accuracy --> =y |
||
Line 10: | Line 9: | ||
|B4 <!-- Grammar and style --> =y |
|B4 <!-- Grammar and style --> =y |
||
|B5 <!-- Supporting materials --> =y |
|B5 <!-- Supporting materials --> =y |
||
|Biography=y|Middle-Eastern=y}} |
|Biography =y |
||
|Middle-Eastern =y}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Biography |
{{WikiProject Biography|military-work-group=y|military-priority=Low|politician-work-group=y|politician-priority=Low}} |
||
{{WikiProject Afghanistan |
{{WikiProject Afghanistan|importance=mid}} |
||
{{WikiProject Central Asia |
{{WikiProject Central Asia|importance=mid}} |
||
{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Simon_Fraser_University/Globalization_and_Media_-_D203_(Fall_2015) | assignments = [[User:Lutfi17|Lutfi17]] }} |
|||
}} |
}} |
||
{{OnThisDay|date1=2004-09-09|oldid1=5776124|date2=2005-09-09|oldid2=22937814|date3=2007-09-09|oldid3=156655007|date4=2008-09-09|oldid4=237130785|date5=2016-09-09|oldid5=738559348|date6=2018-09-09|oldid6=858676445|date7=2019-09-09|oldid7=914841241|date8=2021-09-09|oldid8=1043262211}} |
{{OnThisDay|date1=2004-09-09|oldid1=5776124|date2=2005-09-09|oldid2=22937814|date3=2007-09-09|oldid3=156655007|date4=2008-09-09|oldid4=237130785|date5=2016-09-09|oldid5=738559348|date6=2018-09-09|oldid6=858676445|date7=2019-09-09|oldid7=914841241|date8=2021-09-09|oldid8=1043262211}} |
||
Line 26: | Line 25: | ||
}} |
}} |
||
⚫ | |||
== Another Semi-protected Edit Request 28/5/2020== |
|||
If you need a source for "Massoud was assassinated at the instigation of al-Qaeda and Taliban in a suicide bombing on September 9, 2001" then Johnathon L. Lee's 2019 book "A History from 1260 to the Present" says so page 647. Paragraph from the book with relevant information is |
|||
⚫ | Dost Mohammad Khan was a Pathan/Pakhtun speaker and Ahmed Shah Massoud was a TAJIK/Persian speaker, they are not related in any way. Please correct this mistake as it leads to disinformation for students/readers wanting to learn about history. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Zaryab Ayyub Khan|Zaryab Ayyub Khan]] ([[User talk:Zaryab Ayyub Khan#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Zaryab Ayyub Khan|contribs]]) 21:36, 2 September 2021 (UTC)</small> |
||
"By the autumn of 2001 bin Laden felt he was in a strong enough position |
|||
to interfere directly in Afghanistan’s internal afairs. On 9 September two |
|||
Tunisian al-Qa‘ida operatives disguised as journalists were granted an |
|||
interview with Ahmad Shah Mas‘ud. During their meeting they exploded |
|||
a bomb concealed in a video camera, which killed themselves, Mas‘ud and |
|||
several of his aides. It was the frst, but tragically not the last, instance of |
|||
a suicide bombing in Afghanistan. Two days later, on 11 September 2001, |
|||
nineteen Arabs, mostly citizens of Saudi Arabia, hijacked four American |
|||
passenger planes and crashed two of them into the World Trade Center |
|||
in New York and a third into the Pentagon. Te fourth plane, intended |
|||
to attack the White House, crashed in a feld afer its passengers bravely |
|||
fought the hijackers. In all more than 3,000 people died in the 9/11 attacks, |
|||
including six Pakistani citizens, and thousands more were injured." <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/111.220.26.234|111.220.26.234]] ([[User talk:111.220.26.234#top|talk]]) 17:11, 27 May 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== |
== Would like to add a reliable citation for the page. == |
||
The line "A street in New Delhi, India, is named after Ahmad Shah Massoud. It is the first time that such an honour has been extended to a leader from that country as part of close ties between Afghanistan and India.[citation needed]" is missing the citation as of now. Would like to add a source for this from MEA, India([https://eoi.gov.in/kabul/?0208?sa021 Link]) [[User:Rupz0|Rupz0]] ([[User talk:Rupz0|talk]]) 10:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC) |
|||
I think the article is comprised of hyperbole when it states that "The Soviet army and the Afghan communist army were mainly defeated by Massoud and his mujahideen in numerous small engagements between 1984 and 1988. Most sources acknowledge that the Soviet army only rarely experienced in defeats or reversals in combat during the war. The Soviets' real problem is that they did not have a strategy, or even the intention, of using their forces to achieve a military victory in Afghanistan. Generally, the Soviets engaged only in periodic, sweeping, large scale offensives designed to destroy guerrillas infrastructure and troop concentrations. Upon achieving these goals (to one degree of another), the Soviets always pulled their forces back to their starting positions. After these engagements, the guerrillas would reoccupy lost ground and begin rebuilding infrastructure and military strength. The Soviet goal was only to set back the guerrillas' capacity to wage war, if even temporarily. Therefore, it's incorrect to state that the Soviets were "defeated" tactically or strategically in any way. |
|||
== Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2024 == |
|||
As for the Afghan communist army, yes, it is quite true that it suffered regular - and sometimes colossal - defeats throughout the war. The Soviets invested considered finances, time, materiel, and other resources in a quixotic effort to build-up the battle efficiency of the Afghan communist army. Generally these Soviet efforts failed, and often the Soviet army was compelled to scatter guerrilla offensives that made ground as a result of the failures of the Afghan communist army. In this sense, the Soviets - much like the Americans afterward - incurred a massive defeat in the area of Afghan state building. But these reversals, it must be understood, rarely involved actual Soviet units being defeated on the ground by their adversaries. |
|||
{{Edit semi-protected|Ahmad Shah Massoud|answered=yes}} |
|||
As for Ahmad Shah Massoud, it must be acknowledged that he was a brilliant and successful guerrilla leader during the 1980s war. Massoud was rarely, if ever, seriously defeated by the Soviets. Massoud's success lay in his sage understanding that his forces, being just partisans, were no match in open battle for the Soviets, who possessed overwhelming firepower. Therefore, Massoud strove to achieve the next best result, which was to harass the Soviets endlessly, and retreat before their military might in slow, predetermined, organized manner. Massoud always knew the exact moment when continued resistance against Soviet offensives would be futile; at that point, he always led superbly organized and executed retreats to fallback points that had been previously established by the guerrillas. This means that Massoud's organization was flexible enough and sufficiently durable to remain in the field as a thorn in the side of the Soviets and the Afghan communists indefinitely. |
|||
A council led the foundation and a jury, consisting of impartial university lecturers, decided on the works of artists. |
|||
Change to |
|||
One final comment. The article is in error in stating that Gorbachev's "bleeding wound" comment referred specifically to the losses of the Soviet forces in the war. That's simply not what Gorbachev meant. Rather, Gorbachev was saying that Afghanistan itself - the nation, the people, the society - were a "bleeding wound." Gorbachev was indicating that the USSR was morally and ethically at fault for turning Afghanistan into a ruin. In this sense, Gorbachev was articulating the anti-war attitude that had been typical of Soviet "liberals (to the extent that such people existed in Soviet politics) since the beginning of the conflict. Gorbachev was simply telling the world that the USSR's prosecution of the Afghan war was unconscionable, and that was one of his reasons for organizing the withdrawal in 1987-89. |
|||
[[User:Kenmore|Kenmore]] ([[User talk:Kenmore|talk]]) 02:54, 11 July 2021 (UTC) |
|||
A council led the foundation and a jury, consisting of impartial university lecturers, and decided on the works of artists. [[User:Alexander M Baker|Alexander M Baker]] ([[User talk:Alexander M Baker|talk]]) 06:45, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
|||
⚫ | |||
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> The grammar is correct. Leaving out the parenthetical phrase {{tq|"consisting of impartial university lecturers"}}, the sentence simply reads {{tq|"A council led the foundation and a jury decided on the works of artists"}}. [[User:Liu1126|Liu1126]] ([[User talk:Liu1126|talk]]) 18:13, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
|||
== Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2024 == |
|||
{{edit semi-protected|Ahmad Shah Massoud|answered=yes}} |
|||
A street in New Delhi, India, is named after Ahmad Shah Massoud. It is the first time that such an honour has been extended to a leader from that country as part of the close ties between Afghanistan and India.<ref>https://eoi.gov.in/kabul/?0208?sa021</ref> [[User:Rupz0|Rupz0]] ([[User talk:Rupz0|talk]]) 07:24, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
|||
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:AlphaBetaGamma|ABG]] <small> ([[User talk:AlphaBetaGamma|Talk/Report any mistakes here]]) </small> 04:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC) |
|||
⚫ | |||
{{reflist-talk}} |
|||
== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion == |
|||
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: |
|||
* [[commons:File:Flag flown in Panjshir (2019).svg|Flag flown in Panjshir (2019).svg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2021-09-16T04:38:25.611766 | Flag flown in Panjshir (2019).svg --> |
|||
Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Northern Alliance flag flown in Panjshir 2021.svg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 04:38, 16 September 2021 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 03:23, 3 September 2024
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ahmad Shah Massoud article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 2 months |
Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting. |
This level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 9, 2004, September 9, 2005, September 9, 2007, September 9, 2008, September 9, 2016, September 9, 2018, September 9, 2019, and September 9, 2021. |
Parent information is incorrect
[edit]Dost Mohammad Khan was a Pathan/Pakhtun speaker and Ahmed Shah Massoud was a TAJIK/Persian speaker, they are not related in any way. Please correct this mistake as it leads to disinformation for students/readers wanting to learn about history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaryab Ayyub Khan (talk • contribs) 21:36, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
Would like to add a reliable citation for the page.
[edit]The line "A street in New Delhi, India, is named after Ahmad Shah Massoud. It is the first time that such an honour has been extended to a leader from that country as part of close ties between Afghanistan and India.[citation needed]" is missing the citation as of now. Would like to add a source for this from MEA, India(Link) Rupz0 (talk) 10:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2024
[edit]This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
A council led the foundation and a jury, consisting of impartial university lecturers, decided on the works of artists.
Change to
A council led the foundation and a jury, consisting of impartial university lecturers, and decided on the works of artists. Alexander M Baker (talk) 06:45, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: The grammar is correct. Leaving out the parenthetical phrase
"consisting of impartial university lecturers"
, the sentence simply reads"A council led the foundation and a jury decided on the works of artists"
. Liu1126 (talk) 18:13, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2024
[edit]This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
A street in New Delhi, India, is named after Ahmad Shah Massoud. It is the first time that such an honour has been extended to a leader from that country as part of the close ties between Afghanistan and India.[1] Rupz0 (talk) 07:24, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
References
- C-Class level-5 vital articles
- Wikipedia level-5 vital articles in People
- C-Class vital articles in People
- C-Class military history articles
- C-Class biography (military) articles
- Military biography work group articles
- C-Class Middle Eastern military history articles
- Middle Eastern military history task force articles
- C-Class biography articles
- Low-importance biography (military) articles
- C-Class biography (politics and government) articles
- Low-importance biography (politics and government) articles
- Politics and government work group articles
- WikiProject Biography articles
- C-Class Afghanistan articles
- Mid-importance Afghanistan articles
- WikiProject Afghanistan articles
- C-Class Central Asia articles
- Mid-importance Central Asia articles
- WikiProject Central Asia articles
- Selected anniversaries (September 2004)
- Selected anniversaries (September 2005)
- Selected anniversaries (September 2007)
- Selected anniversaries (September 2008)
- Selected anniversaries (September 2016)
- Selected anniversaries (September 2018)
- Selected anniversaries (September 2019)
- Selected anniversaries (September 2021)