Talk:Developing country: Difference between revisions
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== Climate Change == |
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==Improve section on common characteristics== |
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Hi there, |
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I've done some work on a new section on common characteristics. I think this is important for laypersons to grasp some of the problems that people in developing countries are dealing with. I looked around in related Wikipedia articles to see if there was a good description anywhere. So far, I have not found much yet. However, I did find this paragaph under [[Third World]] and am thinking of perhaps moving and updating it to here (the word "Third World" would be replaced with "developing country"). However, this could also open up a mine field as there might be many controversial issues there. What do you think? This is the paragraph in question: |
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I am new (to this page and to wikipedia editing) so apologies if I am not adhering to guidelines. Please do correct me! I think that in general, but in particular for this section we need to write about the leadership of developing countries in adapting and building resilience to climate change and that they are not just portrayed as victims. I have started to do this by adding a sentence or two on Bangladesh but there is much more that can be added. [[User:MduToit74|MduToit74]] ([[User talk:MduToit74|talk]]) 13:17, 30 November 2020 (UTC)MduToit74 |
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== Developing country as a historical term == |
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''However, despite decades of receiving aid and experiencing different development models (which have had very little success), many Third World countries' economies are still dependent on developed countries, and are deep in debt.<ref>[http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm "First, Second and Third World"]</ref> There is now a growing debate about why Third World countries remain impoverished and underdeveloped after all this time. Many argue that current methods of aid are not working and are calling for reducing foreign aid (and therefore dependency) and utilizing different economic theories than the traditional mainstream theories from the West.<ref>[[Ozay Mehmet|Mehmet, Ozay]], (1995). Mainstream economic development theories have failed to come up with a model that appropriately supports development in the Third World. Westernizing the Third World (Ch 1), Routledge</ref> Historically, development and aid have not accomplished the goals they were meant to, and currently the global gap between the rich and poor is greater than ever,<ref name="Westra">Westra, Richard (2011). "Renewing Socialist Development in the Third World", [[Journal of Contemporary Asia]], 41(4): 519-543.</ref> though not everybody agrees with this.<ref name="cliodynamics.ru">Korotayev A., Zinkina J. [http://cliodynamics.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=361&Itemid=1 On the structure of the present-day convergence. ''Campus-Wide Information Systems''. Vol. 31 No. 2/3, 2014, pp. 139-152]</ref>'' [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 02:54, 27 March 2018 (UTC) |
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In the introduction, it says that Developing country is equal to LMIC, whereas I think most people think of Least Developed Countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_developed_countries when they say Developing country. In the 1970's the world, in regards to income, looked like a Bactrian Camel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactrian_camel while it since the last 20 years or so looks more like a Dromedary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromedary, see the 1970 compared to 2015 figures here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World#Great_Divergence_and_Great_Convergence. Less than 10% of the world's population live in countries that are low-income and thus in what we used to call Developing countries. Perhaps a billion or so live in high income countries, so left are more than 5 billion people, the bulk of humanity, who lives in middle-income countries. The terms Developing/Developed countries are therefore out-dated as the world no longer is divided in two. Let's take Hunger as an example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger#/media/File:Hunger_Map_2020_World_Food_Programme.svg. Some countries in Europe (Developed Countries) have a higher proportion of people suffering from hunger than a quite large number of countries in Developing countries. So, just like the use of 1st/2nd/3rd world countries describing how the Cold War divided the world, but where people still use Third World countries as a term for low-income countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model, I would like to change the content in the article so that the term Developing country also is viewed as a term belonging to how the world '''was''' divided, but not is anymore. -- Please also refer to the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Developing_country/Archive_1#Discussion_about_name_change_(again) for a previous similar discussion. [[User:Olle Terenius (UU)|Olle Terenius (UU)]] ([[User talk:Olle Terenius (UU)|talk]]) 15:56, 19 January 2021 (UTC) |
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: I think I am making good progress on this section on common characteristics (still not finished). I've just added a sub-section on global warming. Will still do more work on that.[[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 13:13, 4 May 2018 (UTC) |
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: I took part in the previous discussion, so for people who are new, please take a look at that archived discussion link. I personally don't think this statement is true: "I think most people think of Least Developed Countries when they say Developing country". Is there any evidence for it or just a gut feeling? I don't have evidence at hand either but as far as I can see from the literature, newspaper articles, websites, blogs etc. the term "developing countries" is currently still used interchangeably with "low and middle income countries" (maybe it'll change in future?), and includes the sub-articles of e.g. [[Least developed countries]], [[Small Island Developing States]], [[Landlocked developing countries]], [[Heavily indebted poor countries]] (there is probably some overlap and repetition between those articles which ought to be improved). Note that I also started a discussion here about a possible new category for "developing countries topics": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Categories#New_category_for_articles_that_deal_with_topics_in_developing_countries? Overall, the guiding principle for the naming of Wikipedia articles is [[WP:Commonname]]. It'll be interesting to hear what everyone else things. - Apart from that, nothing would stop you, [[User:Olle Terenius (UU)|Olle Terenius (UU)]], from improving the content of this article and adding more information, using reliable sources. A good starting point would be the section on "definitions" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country#Definitions). Also the section on "opportunities" needs reworking (it's actually a left over section from an earlier version of the article). [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 12:11, 25 January 2021 (UTC) |
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:: I've done more work on this section but it's still not great. In the next few days I am going to rework the sub-section on global warming, based on feedback I received from a colleague. [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 03:59, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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::Given that developing countries do not have a very coherent definition, I would not start further discussion topics related to them. In my opinion, it is better to have specific rankings of development indicators (GDP per capita, infrastructure, health, etc.) across all countries than to have very broad but not very precise articles on developing countries or to restrict attention to an arbitrarily picked set of countries. I would follow the World Bank approach in that as they are the biggest experts [[Special:Contributions/99.225.143.94|99.225.143.94]] ([[User talk:99.225.143.94|talk]]) 12:50, 14 June 2024 (UTC) |
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::: I've completed my round of edits on the section on global warming, trying to improve logical flow and taking out repetitions. I hope it's better now. My main aim was to introduce the main concepts; I hope it's not overly detailed but just the right amount of detail together with the overview information. [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2018 (UTC) |
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== The Gulf, Chile, Mauritius, Seychelles == |
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==Added more information about criticisms about use of the term== |
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I have just updated and added some more information in the section about criticisms about the use of the term. I have also added a bit about this in the lead section. Does someone want to help me improve this further? [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 01:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC) |
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How is UAE, Qatar, and the gulf countries except Yemen not developed?🤫🤫🤫 democratic no but developed yes [[User:Nlivataye|Nlivataye]] ([[User talk:Nlivataye|talk]]) 15:57, 27 January 2021 (UTC) |
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==Discussion about name change (again)== |
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: [[User:Nlivataye|Nlivataye]] we can only go by what the published sources say. Do you have a publication handy that states that those countries are not grouped as developing countries? If yes, then please add that information with the source. Thanks. [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 01:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC) |
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Does anyone want to suggest that we change the name of this article from "developing country" to LMICs? I am not in favour of that as per [[WP:Commonname]] but I am interesting to hear a discussion. An outcome could be to rename the article and to redirect "developing country" to LMIC. Personally, I think we should wait with such a step until we see a clear indication that big organizations, like the UN, are phasing out the use of the term. So far I am not seeing that (apart from World Bank). - In addition we could think further about how to improve this article and related sub-articles like [[Least Developed Countries]]. [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 01:33, 5 March 2020 (UTC) |
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:: Most likely human rights and violence agaisnt women. [[User:13Sundin|13Sundin]] ([[User talk:13Sundin|talk]]) 08:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC) |
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:We might consider changing the whole article from being an actively used concept to a concept belonging to the past. The world is now mainly consisting of middle-income countries and thus developing and developed is a description of how the world looked at the end of the colonial era, but not now. Then the new articles would be Low income country, Lower middle income country, Upper middle income country, and High income country. And a number of things from this article could be moved into those. [[User:Olle Terenius (UU)|Olle Terenius (UU)]] ([[User talk:Olle Terenius (UU)|talk]]) 14:15, 5 March 2020 (UTC) |
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== "[[:Backward Area]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] == |
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:: You are basically suggesting breaking up the existing article into four separate articles, [[User:Olle Terenius (UU)]]. Or alternatively, renaming this article to "Low income country". I think there would be plenty of overlap and repetition between three of the articles (i.e. low income, lower middle income, upper middle income) so I don't really see much benefit. Here is another suggestion: how about starting with renaming [[developed country]] to "high-income country"? At the moment high income country redirects to developed country. Could be something to suggest on the other article's talk page? I still think it's useful to have an article that groups together all the other countries that are not high-income countries (whatever you want to collectively call them), as they have so much in common in terms of structural problems. - I hope more editors will weigh in on this discussion. There has got to be more people who have this article on their watchlist?? [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 06:34, 18 March 2020 (UTC) |
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[[File:Information.svg|30px]] |
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:::Per [[WP:COMMONNAME]] and your first comment, it seems we should keep the current title. <span style="font-family:Palatino">[[User:Crossroads|'''Crossroads''']]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Crossroads|-talk-]]</sup> 05:35, 19 March 2020 (UTC) |
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The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Backward_Area&redirect=no Backward Area]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 28#Backward Area}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:TartarTorte|<b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>]][[User talk:TartarTorte|<b>Torte</b>]] 18:05, 28 September 2023 (UTC) |
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==References== |
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{{reflist}} |
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== Suggest to delete the IMF map and downplay/discuss their definition == |
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== Poland is developing… And developed? == |
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The IMF term, the only institutional definition at this point since the World Bank has abandoned the term and at the UN it is by self identification, is Developing and Emerging Markets and not Developing Countries. As discussed later in the article, their definition emphasizes global financial integration instead of general level of economic and social development. For this reason, I would not use their map and it is questionable whether a workable definition of developing countries exists. I would just have a historic overview, and then jump to the classification of the World Bank and Global South, etc. |
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In summary, I propose deleting the IMF/UN map (or keep the UN portion only), and start with the WB classification. The IMF classification is discussed later anyway. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.225.143.94|99.225.143.94]] ([[User talk:99.225.143.94#top|talk]]) 12:38, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</small> |
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:I suggest we do keep the map in the lead but we add some further context and explanations to the caption to indicate to the reader that "it's complicated!". [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 08:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC) |
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I agree, it's very misleading. I think the problem is that we're using the IMF definition of "developing", and for some obscure reason, they deem it necessary to class Poland as "developing" which throws it into the same category as impoverished nations such as Ethiopia and Zimbabwe. Laughable isn't it. Poland has a VERY high human development index with high incomes, high life expectancy, excellent infrastructure, excellent public services, and yet it's classed as a developing country by IMF like Botswana. Poland isn't far off the standards of living of Western Europe, and its economy is currently the 8th largest in the EU and growing. If that makes it developing then I don't know what else to say! |
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== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion == |
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: |
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* [[commons:File:Imf-advanced-un-least-developed-2008.svg|Imf-advanced-un-least-developed-2008.svg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2020-06-19T22:24:39.243640 | Imf-advanced-un-least-developed-2008.svg --> |
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Imf-advanced-un-least-developed-2008.svg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 22:24, 19 June 2020 (UTC) |
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==Proposal to move content from [[Global South]] to here== |
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I am wondering if we should move most or all of the content that is currently under "Common characteristics" in the article on [[Global South]] to here. This way, that article could focus on the term "Global South" and what it is used for. Those characteristics overlap with content at [[developing countries]] and I think it should be moved here.[[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 06:26, 11 September 2020 (UTC) |
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Climate Change
[edit]Hi there, I am new (to this page and to wikipedia editing) so apologies if I am not adhering to guidelines. Please do correct me! I think that in general, but in particular for this section we need to write about the leadership of developing countries in adapting and building resilience to climate change and that they are not just portrayed as victims. I have started to do this by adding a sentence or two on Bangladesh but there is much more that can be added. MduToit74 (talk) 13:17, 30 November 2020 (UTC)MduToit74
- Thanks for making this edit, MduToit74! That's a good move and we need more of that... EMsmile (talk) 02:09, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Developing country as a historical term
[edit]In the introduction, it says that Developing country is equal to LMIC, whereas I think most people think of Least Developed Countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_developed_countries when they say Developing country. In the 1970's the world, in regards to income, looked like a Bactrian Camel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactrian_camel while it since the last 20 years or so looks more like a Dromedary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromedary, see the 1970 compared to 2015 figures here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World#Great_Divergence_and_Great_Convergence. Less than 10% of the world's population live in countries that are low-income and thus in what we used to call Developing countries. Perhaps a billion or so live in high income countries, so left are more than 5 billion people, the bulk of humanity, who lives in middle-income countries. The terms Developing/Developed countries are therefore out-dated as the world no longer is divided in two. Let's take Hunger as an example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger#/media/File:Hunger_Map_2020_World_Food_Programme.svg. Some countries in Europe (Developed Countries) have a higher proportion of people suffering from hunger than a quite large number of countries in Developing countries. So, just like the use of 1st/2nd/3rd world countries describing how the Cold War divided the world, but where people still use Third World countries as a term for low-income countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model, I would like to change the content in the article so that the term Developing country also is viewed as a term belonging to how the world was divided, but not is anymore. -- Please also refer to the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Developing_country/Archive_1#Discussion_about_name_change_(again) for a previous similar discussion. Olle Terenius (UU) (talk) 15:56, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
- I took part in the previous discussion, so for people who are new, please take a look at that archived discussion link. I personally don't think this statement is true: "I think most people think of Least Developed Countries when they say Developing country". Is there any evidence for it or just a gut feeling? I don't have evidence at hand either but as far as I can see from the literature, newspaper articles, websites, blogs etc. the term "developing countries" is currently still used interchangeably with "low and middle income countries" (maybe it'll change in future?), and includes the sub-articles of e.g. Least developed countries, Small Island Developing States, Landlocked developing countries, Heavily indebted poor countries (there is probably some overlap and repetition between those articles which ought to be improved). Note that I also started a discussion here about a possible new category for "developing countries topics": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Categories#New_category_for_articles_that_deal_with_topics_in_developing_countries? Overall, the guiding principle for the naming of Wikipedia articles is WP:Commonname. It'll be interesting to hear what everyone else things. - Apart from that, nothing would stop you, Olle Terenius (UU), from improving the content of this article and adding more information, using reliable sources. A good starting point would be the section on "definitions" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country#Definitions). Also the section on "opportunities" needs reworking (it's actually a left over section from an earlier version of the article). EMsmile (talk) 12:11, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Given that developing countries do not have a very coherent definition, I would not start further discussion topics related to them. In my opinion, it is better to have specific rankings of development indicators (GDP per capita, infrastructure, health, etc.) across all countries than to have very broad but not very precise articles on developing countries or to restrict attention to an arbitrarily picked set of countries. I would follow the World Bank approach in that as they are the biggest experts 99.225.143.94 (talk) 12:50, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
The Gulf, Chile, Mauritius, Seychelles
[edit]How is UAE, Qatar, and the gulf countries except Yemen not developed?🤫🤫🤫 democratic no but developed yes Nlivataye (talk) 15:57, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
- Nlivataye we can only go by what the published sources say. Do you have a publication handy that states that those countries are not grouped as developing countries? If yes, then please add that information with the source. Thanks. EMsmile (talk) 01:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
- Most likely human rights and violence agaisnt women. 13Sundin (talk) 08:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
"Backward Area" listed at Redirects for discussion
[edit]The redirect Backward Area has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 28 § Backward Area until a consensus is reached. TartarTorte 18:05, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
Suggest to delete the IMF map and downplay/discuss their definition
[edit]The IMF term, the only institutional definition at this point since the World Bank has abandoned the term and at the UN it is by self identification, is Developing and Emerging Markets and not Developing Countries. As discussed later in the article, their definition emphasizes global financial integration instead of general level of economic and social development. For this reason, I would not use their map and it is questionable whether a workable definition of developing countries exists. I would just have a historic overview, and then jump to the classification of the World Bank and Global South, etc. In summary, I propose deleting the IMF/UN map (or keep the UN portion only), and start with the WB classification. The IMF classification is discussed later anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.143.94 (talk) 12:38, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
- I suggest we do keep the map in the lead but we add some further context and explanations to the caption to indicate to the reader that "it's complicated!". EMsmile (talk) 08:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
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