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== External links modified ==
== Aldi connection ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to {{plural:3|one external link|3 external links}} on [[Trader Joe's]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=686482645 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100110213746/http://ethisphere.com:80/wme2009/ to http://ethisphere.com/wme2009/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100419015512/http://ethisphere.com:80/wme2010/ to http://ethisphere.com/wme2010/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130504163706/http://money.msn.com:80/now/post.aspx?post=c53cd00c-e1e2-473e-8349-52bfd07e698f to http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=c53cd00c-e1e2-473e-8349-52bfd07e698f&goback=%2Egde_734897_member_238795506

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.

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Cheers. —[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 11:16, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Trader Joe's]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=707357768 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100111143603/http://ethisphere.com:80/WME2008/ to http://ethisphere.com/wme2008/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}).

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Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 11:16, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

== Management ==
Hi Wikipedians, looks like IP 47.156.148.37 deleted the entire section titled Management and its content of Dan T. Bane and Arvin Stodick and associated refs. This user did it again after [[User:Jpgordon]] reverted changes. I would like to put the content back after the deletions stop.
[[User:SWP13|SWP13]] ([[User talk:SWP13|talk]]) 12:13, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
:I'm pretty puzzled by the recent edits, removing mention of the ownership of TJs. [[User:Jpgordon|--jpgordon]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Jpgordon|&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; ]]</small></sup> 20:22, 29 June 2017 (UTC)


On the Aldi page, it says that Aldi Nord is operating "as Trader Joe's". But on this page, there is virtually no reference to Aldi, and implies that the only connection is that the previous owner also happened to be the owner of Aldi Nord.
== Charles Shaw wine ==


We currently say {{xt|Trader Joe's is the exclusive retailer of Charles Shaw wine, popularly known as "Two Buck Chuck"}} and it is referenced, but to a story written fifteen years ago. I have seen Charles Shaw wine in other stores, and I doubt that they are all resellers. For sure, there is a strong association between the two, but I dispute the claim that TJ's is exclusive. [[user:Soap|—]]<span style="background-color: #a6ffe0; padding: 3px; border-radius: 6px 6px 6px 6px;"><b>[[user talk:Soap|Soap]]</b></span>[[Special:Contributions/Soap|—]] 13:59, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
:Just posting to say that I edited the sentence to remove the word ''exclusive'' and it was reverted. All I can do is repeat myself ... the claim is based on an archived story, now [https://web.archive.org/web/20050306232510/http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1091106,00.html sixteen years old]. That's plenty of time for the situation to change. I remember asking a TJ's employee and he said that there were laws varying by state that might make TJ's the exclusive retailer in some US states but not in others. I have seen the wine for sale in other stores here in Maine, .... but I'm not going to intrude on store owners' privacy just to get a picture (which could be questioned even then, if people claimed the store was unauthorized). Is there anywhere we can go, either from Aldi/TJ's or elsewhere, saying that they are still the exclusive retailer of TJ's even today? [[user:Soap|—]]<span style="background-color: #a6ffe0; padding: 3px; border-radius: 6px 6px 6px 6px;"><b>[[user talk:Soap|Soap]]</b></span>[[Special:Contributions/Soap|—]] 17:19, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
::In fact, now that I actually read the article, it never says that TJ's is the exclusive retailer at all. It only says "partners with wineries", which is what every distributor I know of does. I believe that we should either remove the sentence entirely or at least remove that one word, ''exclusive'', which never appeared even in the story from January 2004. [[user:Soap|—]]<span style="background-color: #a6ffe0; padding: 3px; border-radius: 6px 6px 6px 6px;"><b>[[user talk:Soap|Soap]]</b></span>[[Special:Contributions/Soap|—]] 17:24, 22 February 2020 (UTC)


So, what's the story? Is Trader Joe's essentially just Aldi Nord with a different name? Or something different? [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 02:07, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
I just noticed that I had brought this up [[Talk:Charles_Shaw_wine#Distributed_Exclusively|five years ago]] on the [[talk:Charles Shaw wine]] page and said almost the exact same thing, even down to offering to take a photo and saying I'd rather not intrude on the storeowners' privacy, and then realizing after a few posts that the original source never claimed it was exclusive to TJ's at all. I completely forgot about those posts until just discovering them now. I think we should follow the lead of the [[Charles Shaw wine]] article, which mentions that Trader Joe's sells the wine but does not claim anywhere that it is an exclusive brand. [[user:Soap|—]]<span style="background-color: #a6ffe0; padding: 3px; border-radius: 6px 6px 6px 6px;"><b>[[user talk:Soap|Soap]]</b></span>[[Special:Contributions/Soap|—]] 22:57, 24 February 2020 (UTC)


:I have searched and could not find a single source -- reliable, unreliable, whatever -- that even HINTED that Charles Shaw wines are sold anywhere but Trader Joe's, but plenty that say Charles Shaw wines ARE sold only at Trader Joe's. If Charles Shaw wines are sold elsewhere, you should be able to provide SOME source other than "I once saw a bottle on some other store's shelf". Charles Shaw wines aren't even listed at the website for Bronco Wines -- the company that makes the stuff -- which is a very strange way to sell it outside of Trader Joe's. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] &#124; [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 00:39, 25 February 2020 (UTC)


Trader Joe's is fully owned by the family of Theo Albrecht (founder of Aldi Nord), who died in 2010. And yes, it's more or less a subsidiary of Aldi Nord, with a different name. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/95.157.32.177|95.157.32.177]] ([[User talk:95.157.32.177#top|talk]]) 23:26, 4 June 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::Please show me a reliable source, then, that indicates the Charles Shaw brand is exclusive to Trader Joe's. The January 2004 Deutsche Welle article does ''not'' say that, and I think we made a mistake ever writing that sentence into the article in the first place. I've traced the addition of the word "exclusive" to [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Trader_Joe%27s&diff=118844429&oldid=118514596 this IP edit] in 2007, by which time the Deutsche Welle story had been in our article for quite some time. Thus, when the story was originally added, we stuck to the source and did not make the claim of exclusive sale. [[user:Soap|—]]<span style="background-color: #a6ffe0; padding: 3px; border-radius: 6px 6px 6px 6px;"><b>[[user talk:Soap|Soap]]</b></span>[[Special:Contributions/Soap|—]] 02:31, 25 February 2020 (UTC)


{{ping|Calton|Soap}} I have been following this with fascination! First, Here's a source that called CSW "[https://www.seattletimes.com/explore/shop-northwest/walmart-vs-trader-joes-wines-whose-are-better/ Exclusive to Trader Joe's]. Here's another source that says "[https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2019/05/10/when-mixing-wine-and-marlboros-makes-creative-sense Since launching the business in 2002, Mr. Franzia has sold over one billion bottles of wine exclusively at the supermarket Trader Joe’s for just $1.99 each, causing it to soar in popularity and gain the moniker “Two-Buck Chuck.]” Here is a third source that says "[https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/experience/news-history/charles-shaw-mba-71-risk-rigidity He (Charles Shaw) watched from the sidelines as the “super-value” wines marketed in his name — sold through an exclusive distribution deal with Trader Joe’s — became one of winemaking’s best-selling brands.]" A fourth source says "[https://www.browardpalmbeach.com/restaurants/arsenic-in-trader-joes-wine-6913332 When contacted, a spokesperson for Trader Joe's said, "Charles Shaw is a label exclusive to Trader Joe’s]." Second, in improving the article on Charles Shaw Wine I found many sources that describe what a gigantic operation Bronco Wines, which makes 2 buck chuck, actually is. They have produced hundreds of millions of bottles of wine, if not billions. One article stat, which seemed low, was that in 2008 they made 60,000 cases (720,000 bottles) every time that they ran a 2-3 day production run for Charles Shaw wine. One article mentioned a 40-acre staging area for trucks waiting to unload their grapes at the factory. It's not inconceivable that a pallet of it got diverted somewhere, or that someone bought it for $2 and is selling it for $5 in their own store. On the other hand, here we have multiple sources saying that TJ's is the exclusive seller. It's a pretty tiny thing to argue about. I have removed the somewhat contested Deutche Welle source, and added three of the best ones I just mentioned above. [[User:ThatMontrealIP|ThatMontrealIP]] ([[User talk:ThatMontrealIP|talk]]) 05:20, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
:They are wrong. Newspapers can be wrong ... I once found a newspaper writing a story about sea lampreys using a photo that I added to a Wikipedia article, so it's conceivable, especially given that the IP's edit adding "exclusive" survived for ''thirteen years'', it's that those sources simply copied from us. Stanford being a university doesn't automatically make them a reliable source for non-academic subjects like this, so they may have gotten it from us as well. It's even possible that the Trader Joe's spokesperson didn't know everything about his own company. But I understand the policy of [[Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth|Verifiability, not truth]], and so even as I know the newer sources you've added are wrong, I won't restore my edit until I can find some other publication that shows there is conflicting information available.
:Privately, I can intimate that I ''know'' I'm right, and that it isn't just one store, and it isn't just one pallet, because the corner store I go to has been selling Two Buck Chuck for at least five years now and I can't imagine him going to Trader Joe's with the same truck day after day for five years, loading up on wine, and not attracting attention. So either TJ's is unloading their product against company policy from within the store (unlikely), or the distributor that sells to TJ's does in fact contract out to other stores, even if in vastly smaller amounts. Now, I don't expect a corner store to have a website showing all of the wines they sell .... I'm more interested in the sentence that started the discussion on [[talk:Charles Shaw wine]] which mentioned the wine was sold at Kroger's, a much much larger operation than a neighborhood corner store. But that claim was quite old as well ... even if Kroger's sold the wine back then, they might not sell it now. So I will let this rest for a bit, and as above, only come back if I find credible information outside my own experience that conflicts with what we have now. [[user:Soap|—]]<span style="background-color: #a6ffe0; padding: 3px; border-radius: 6px 6px 6px 6px;"><b>[[user talk:Soap|Soap]]</b></span>[[Special:Contributions/Soap|—]] 05:46, 25 February 2020 (UTC)


: TJ's is wholly owned by the Albrecht family(?) ''trust,'' along with Aldi Nord, and Aldi Sud(?) and perhaps Aldi US. While these each run independently (maybe not US which may be wholly controlled by Aldi Sud), they may cooperate on a product by product basis. They may also cooperate with other companies, including suppliers, but neither TJ's nor other companies will say so because of NDAs (Non-Disclosure Agreements) formal or informal.
== Unconstructive blind revert and false accusations ==


: TJ's is famously and habitually secretive (I do not say notorious: they are also a habitually responsible company), so independent articles are nearly always going to be: (1) original research, usually by fans of the store; (2) anecdotal; or (3) from a source that is not independent of TJ's (such as [[Bronco Wine Company]] which makes Charles Shaw).
The following edit has been repeatedly reverted [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Trader_Joe%27s&type=revision&diff=916408360&oldid=916407977], and then false accusations of vandalism then made, such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3A2A00%3A23C5%3A9313%3AB900%3A44CE%3A4463%3A2E4A%3AF6A8&type=revision&diff=916408001&oldid=916405735]


: That's just the way TJ's is, and Wikipedia cannot change TJ's policies. All we can do is write the best article we can within the primary source information TJ's allows released. TJ's might bend to a request from a Wikipedian for an interview (though I doubt it), but that would be original research, the only path to more information about TJ's. Even articles from generally reputable sources will be anecdotal, have a conflict of interest, or be some random person's original research. That's just the way TJ's is, and Wikipedia cannot change TJ's policies.
This edit is legitimate as it was just to highlighted a list of letters which make no sense: this noted in the edit summary, whilst the reverts were not explained by an edit summaries.


: It's kind of like writing an article about the NSA or GCHQ, except TJ's has better security, and being privately owned, they have no reporting requirements as a public company would.
: I have reinstated the tag. The series of letters make no sense outside of the United States. [[User:Dorsetonian|Dorsetonian]] ([[User talk:Dorsetonian|talk]]) 19:51, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::Thank you. I hope the disruptive editors neither post fake warnings on your page or blindly revert the tag.
:::I plan on soon adding clarification about the states in the article. Trader Joe's is specifically an American company and therefore the readers are assumed to know about state abbreviations. Also, please make sure to add your signature to every talk page reply by adding <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> to the end. [[User:Trg5503|Trg5503]] <sup>([[User_talk:Trg5503|talk]])</sup> 20:04, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::::Trader Joes is a division of a German company. Also, (i) as Wikipedia is international, US-specific understanding can not be a given, and (ii) please advise of the policy / guideline in which such assumption is stated. And I note the meaning of the list of letters is still unclear despite your message above.


: Maybe the solution is just to start the article with a disclaimer about TJ's secrecy, acknowledge we can't meet Wikipedia's strict source standards, and do the best we can. Whinging about the state of information about TJ's (or going off in a huff) doesn't add to the article or improve the information. The standard Wikipedia warnings are futile. TJ's has been running like this since it was bought from Joe and long past the Albrecht brothers' deaths.[[User:Laguna CA|Laguna CA]] ([[User talk:Laguna CA|talk]]) 14:48, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
If it's a quote, we need to leave it as is, right? But we can put links to the state names to clarify which is which. [[user:Soap|—]]<span style="background-color: #a6ffe0; padding: 3px; border-radius: 6px 6px 6px 6px;"><b>[[user talk:Soap|Soap]]</b></span>[[Special:Contributions/Soap|—]] 14:41, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:22, 28 September 2024

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Archives (Index)

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Aldi connection

[edit]

On the Aldi page, it says that Aldi Nord is operating "as Trader Joe's". But on this page, there is virtually no reference to Aldi, and implies that the only connection is that the previous owner also happened to be the owner of Aldi Nord.


So, what's the story? Is Trader Joe's essentially just Aldi Nord with a different name? Or something different? Stevage 02:07, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Trader Joe's is fully owned by the family of Theo Albrecht (founder of Aldi Nord), who died in 2010. And yes, it's more or less a subsidiary of Aldi Nord, with a different name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.157.32.177 (talk) 23:26, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


TJ's is wholly owned by the Albrecht family(?) trust, along with Aldi Nord, and Aldi Sud(?) and perhaps Aldi US. While these each run independently (maybe not US which may be wholly controlled by Aldi Sud), they may cooperate on a product by product basis. They may also cooperate with other companies, including suppliers, but neither TJ's nor other companies will say so because of NDAs (Non-Disclosure Agreements) formal or informal.
TJ's is famously and habitually secretive (I do not say notorious: they are also a habitually responsible company), so independent articles are nearly always going to be: (1) original research, usually by fans of the store; (2) anecdotal; or (3) from a source that is not independent of TJ's (such as Bronco Wine Company which makes Charles Shaw).
That's just the way TJ's is, and Wikipedia cannot change TJ's policies. All we can do is write the best article we can within the primary source information TJ's allows released. TJ's might bend to a request from a Wikipedian for an interview (though I doubt it), but that would be original research, the only path to more information about TJ's. Even articles from generally reputable sources will be anecdotal, have a conflict of interest, or be some random person's original research. That's just the way TJ's is, and Wikipedia cannot change TJ's policies.
It's kind of like writing an article about the NSA or GCHQ, except TJ's has better security, and being privately owned, they have no reporting requirements as a public company would.
Maybe the solution is just to start the article with a disclaimer about TJ's secrecy, acknowledge we can't meet Wikipedia's strict source standards, and do the best we can. Whinging about the state of information about TJ's (or going off in a huff) doesn't add to the article or improve the information. The standard Wikipedia warnings are futile. TJ's has been running like this since it was bought from Joe and long past the Albrecht brothers' deaths.Laguna CA (talk) 14:48, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Trader_Joe%27s&oldid=1248264535"