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== Who is Weld?==
== A new approach to the problematic passage ==
"According to courtroom testimony by FBI agent Richard Egan, Jeffrey and Michelle Steinberg, the heads of LaRouche's security unit, boasted of placing harassing phone calls all through the night to the general counsel of the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) when the FEC was investigating LaRouche's political contributions.[41]

"The LaRouche movement members have had a reputation for engaging in violence, harassment, and heckling since the 1970s.[27][28][29][30] While LaRouche repeatedly repudiated violence, followers were reported in the 1970s and 1980s to have been charged with possession of weapons and explosives along with a number of violent crimes, including kidnapping and assault.[31] However there were few, if any, convictions on these charges.[32]"

That this passage is problematic has been pointed out up above. The approach taken to show why it is problematic has not really, for me anyway, clarified the issue. The question of "anonymous allegations" is too complex and broad to have a simple solution.

But we do a disservice to our readers with such bad writing and poor reporting. Followers were reported to have been charged with possession of weapons and explosives? What does that mean? Reported by whom? If this was reported in a reliable source, we need not say just that it was reported, we can say that it happened. (A good reliable source would give some details: who was charged? with what specific crime? what was their specific relationship to the LaRouche movement?)

Additionally, the passive voice is something that I generally frown upon for allowing plausible-sounding sentences that cover up a lack of actual information. Members have had a reputation for engaging in violence? A reputation where? Who said it? Were they political opponents, reputable newspaper journalists, judges in a court, etc. We just don't know.

I don't have access to the sources linked, so I can't directly help correct these issues.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] ([[User talk:Jimbo Wales|talk]]) 13:25, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

: It means that we can't take what Milton R. Copulos Senior Policy Analyst, Heritage Foundation wrote as fact - you can read that source at [http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/1984/07/the-larouche-network], the quote being "Although LaRouche publicly eschews violence, over the years members have been charged with a variety of offenses, including assault, possession of weapons, possession of explosives, and kid- napping. There have, however, been few convictions." We could change the section in question to:

:<blockquote>LaRouche movement members have engaged in violence, harassment, and heckling since the 1970s.[27][28][29][30] While LaRouche repeatedly repudiated violence, followers were charged with possession of weapons and explosives along with a number of violent crimes, including kidnapping and assault in the 1970s and 1980s.[31] However there were few, if any, convictions on these charges.</blockquote>

: What do you think about that? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 13:33, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
::I think that's much better, but still not quite where I'd like us to be. Because these are really serious allegations about living people, I'd prefer to have an exact quote from a very reliable source, to ensure that we aren't engaging in any inappropriate synthesis.
: Other sources for violence [http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1299&dat=19740125&id=waleAAAAIBAJ&sjid=B4wDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6208,1251030], Paul L. Montgomery, "How a Radical-Left Group Moved Toward Savagery," New York Times, 1/20/74, p. 1. (courtesy copy [http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Library.PressArticles85]). Harassment and heckling are reasonably trivial to source from the recent obamahitler stuff. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 13:44, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


The "few '''if any'' convictions" is a bit of a red flag for allegations without solid sourcing. One of the biggest problems for Wikipedia has been, and remains, the use of articles to promote the "truth" with nice disregard for NPOV and BLP concerns. As I have noted, Larouche may be Satan incarnate, but that does not mean he is no longer a "living person." And his articles are vastly longer than are warranted IMHO, using the [[Joseph Widney]] edits I made as a guide. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 14:02, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

: No, it's not. It's a red flag for nothing but the fact that they were charged but not convicted - unless you think Heritage lacks a reputation for fact checking and accuracy? The source was provided. If you want to shrink the article, provide a concrete proposal to do so. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 14:07, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
: But, you are right in that there is no source for the "if any" part, and so I've removed it, since we have few convictions reliably sourced. The "if any" language was added [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=LaRouche_movement&diff=321895303&oldid=321821800 here], by banned Leatherstocking, aka Herschelkrustofsky. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 14:12, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
::What would be good are some references later than the mid-eighties or even some from this century. All you have at the moment is some evidence of violence a quarter a century or more ago.--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 15:20, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
::: I believe the violence is concentrated in the 70s and 80s. I'm no expert on the movement, however. I think that's made clear in the article, but the lede could make it clear regarding the progression from violence to harassment to heckling. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 15:24, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Please cite a reliable source that says any of these allegations produced one single conviction in court. It is the height of irresponsibility to insist that they be included because we don't know whether there was a conviction. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia. See [[WP:GOSSIP]]. [[User:Waalkes|Waalkes]] ([[User talk:Waalkes|talk]]) 20:10, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

: Sure. [http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/1984/07/the-larouche-network] Institutional Analysis #28, "The Larouche Network," Michael Copulus, July 19, 1984. "Although LaRouche publicly eschews violence, over the years members have been charged with a variety of offenses, including assault, possession of weapons, possession of explosives, and kid- napping. There have, however, been few convictions." [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 20:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

::I'll repeat what Jimbo said above: A good reliable source would give some details: who was charged? with what specific crime? what was their specific relationship to the LaRouche movement? [[User:Waalkes|Waalkes]] ([[User talk:Waalkes|talk]]) 20:47, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

::: That's what a primary source would do, yes. This is even better - a secondary source! Can I ask you - do you have a conflict of interest with respect to this page or series of pages? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 20:50, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


During the grand jury hearings followers picketed the courthouse, chanted "Weld is a fag",[78] distributed leaflets accusing Weld of involvement in drug dealing, and "sang a jingle advocating that he be hanged in public".[79]"
::::No. Why, do you? And I believe that you are confused about primary and secondary sources. [[User:Waalkes|Waalkes]] ([[User talk:Waalkes|talk]]) 20:58, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
This is the first and only mention of Weld in this article. Who is this?


[[William Weld]] [[Special:Contributions/2605:A601:A0C0:AA00:7700:61AA:B056:8B0B|2605:A601:A0C0:AA00:7700:61AA:B056:8B0B]] ([[User talk:2605:A601:A0C0:AA00:7700:61AA:B056:8B0B|talk]]) 22:08, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
::::: No, I do not. Every single one of your edits is related to LaRouche. It is hard to believe that you are not substantially conflicted with respect to the movement. Are you certain that you're not a devotee? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 21:09, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
*With Jimbo's and Peter Cohen's inputs, along with mine, Waalkes, and Collect, we again have a clear consensus for removal of the material. Thus, I will be restoring Collect's edit which had been revert warred. [[User:Cla68|Cla68]] ([[User talk:Cla68|talk]]) 22:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


== External links modified ==
:: Jimbo agreed with the whole removal? So did Peter Cohen? Bull. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 10:29, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
:::Cla68 is badly misrepresenting me. I did not favor removal of the passage that this section of the talk page is about, I favored a rewrite to be more specific. I have no opinion about restoring Collects entire edit, since I've not studied every part of it. I think that the passage that this section of the talk page is about - allegations of violence - needs to be improved and then restored.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] ([[User talk:Jimbo Wales|talk]]) 10:38, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
:::: And your position on the found sources and the changes to date? Your objection to that one paragraph is still being used to remove the 32kb of text. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 19:21, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::It looks to me like Jimbo said "I think that the passage that this section of the talk page is about - allegations of violence - needs to be improved and then restored." It seems like that might be the correct order in which to proceed. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.3.80.38|99.3.80.38]] ([[User talk:99.3.80.38|talk]]) 21:12, 19 April 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I don't have the time this week to look as I'm writing a paper, but there should be plenty of academics who have commented clearly on this - I know the Duggan case has received coverage at academic conference on far right hate. I'll take a peek at the conference digests and see if I can find the papers - if not I'll see if I can get a copy of the paper from the authors (though I'd have to look at how wikipedia handles conference papers for citation purposes!) <span style="font-family: helvetica;"> --[[User:Narson|<span style="color:#1100;">'''Narson'''</span>]] ~ [[User_talk:Narson|<span style="color:#900;">''Talk''</span>]] • </span> 11:10, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


I have just added archive links to {{plural:3|one external link|3 external links}} on [[LaRouche movement]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=706628156 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*The problem with this article is the same as it ever was: it is a huge coatrack. Half of it is devoted to tedious micro-enumeration of controversies and allegations (including a ridiculous in-text list of 26 names), while other aspects of potential interest to the reader – such as the Reagan administration's defense of their contacts with the LaRouche movement in the 1980s, or even elementary aspects like the paramount role of classical music and literature in the movement, are completely absent. This article is a poorly written piece of POV cruft. '''<font color="#0000FF">[[User:Jayen466|J]]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">[[User_Talk:Jayen466|N]]</font><font color="#0000FF">[[Special:Contributions/Jayen466|466]]</font>''' 21:21, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070430074257/http://www.larouchepac.com:80/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/27/quincy.shtml to http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/27/quincy.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081109211214/http://www.larouchepac.com:80/news/2008/02/19/italian-senator-exposes-secret-plan-fascism-europe.html to http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/italian-senator-exposes-secret-plan-fascism-europe.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080908023438/http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/lisbon-treaty-based-program-british-fascist-oswald-mosley.html to http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/lisbon-treaty-based-program-british-fascist-oswald-mosley.html


When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.
:: So add it. Obviously, there are sources - supply them. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 11:46, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:::The disputed section should be re-evaluated in light of [[WP:BLPCRIME]]. Much of what is there is unsuitable per this policy. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.188.148.252|99.188.148.252]] ([[User talk:99.188.148.252|talk]]) 13:25, 3 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}
== Vote fraud ==


Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier;">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green;">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 10:57, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
Should the article [[LaRouche movement]] contain the comment in the "Political activities" section:
:(Adlai Stevenson) ''lost the previous election by a narrow margin amid allegations of [[vote fraud]]'' 18:44, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


== External links modified ==
*'''Omit'''. I guess the point the original writers were trying to make was that while the previous election had been close, the LaRouche members' win cost the Democrats dearly, as they lost the next election by a huge margin, but it's an obscure tangent here. --'''<font color="#0000FF">[[User:Jayen466|J]]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">[[User_Talk:Jayen466|N]]</font><font color="#0000FF">[[Special:Contributions/Jayen466|466]]</font>''' 19:16, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
*'''Omit''' It's a parenthetical reference that doesn't seem worth including. As per other comments. [[User:FronkTheFrank|FronkTheFrank]] ([[User talk:FronkTheFrank|talk]]) 20:50, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
*'''Omit''' - not relevant to '''this''' article. --[[User:Orangemike|<font color="darkorange">Orange Mike</font>]] &#x007C; [[User talk:Orangemike|<font color="orange">Talk</font>]] 15:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
*'''Omit''' and assert consensus thereon at this point (3 weeks without any disagreement). [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 16:23, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
*'''Omit''' [[User:Cla68|Cla68]] ([[User talk:Cla68|talk]]) 20:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)


I have just modified 3 external links on [[LaRouche movement]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=779607369 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
== Comments ==
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131203083630/http://www.patriotledger.com/your_vote/election-1/x128165993/Frank-meets-LaRouche-candidate-Brown-in-only-primary-debate to http://www.patriotledger.com/your_vote/election-1/x128165993/Frank-meets-LaRouche-candidate-Brown-in-only-primary-debate
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120218141859/http://www2.timesreview.com/ST/Stories/T071609_Obama_ES to http://www2.timesreview.com/ST/Stories/T071609_Obama_ES
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080404043228/http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2001-2/poland.htm to http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2001-2/poland.htm


When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
No cite of ''any'' sort for ''any'' connection of "vote fraud" against Adlai Stevenson is given to the LaRouche movement. I consider this a parenthetical observation at best, and an improper unsourced implication of "[[vote fraud]]" at worst. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 18:44, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
* It's a fact about the previous election - I don't see how it implicates the LaRouche movement in any vote fraud. It's easy to source that the 1982 Chicago election had substantial allegations of vote fraud - it went to the state supreme court. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 18:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
* I have clarified who alleged who participated in said fraud. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 18:54, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 22:16, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
As the person who is "alleged" to be involved is in no way whatsoever associated wit this article, and the "allegations" fall under a [[WP:BLP]] requirement for strong sourcing, the "cure" is worse than simply removing the spurious "allegations." Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 20:00, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


== Far right? ==
Could you explain how this is relevant to an article on the LaRouche movement? [[Special:Contributions/71.95.204.10|71.95.204.10]] ([[User talk:71.95.204.10|talk]]) 01:28, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
:There is no explanation. Where is the evidence Stevenson gave a hoot about Lyndon L? --[[User:Javaweb|Javaweb]] ([[User talk:Javaweb|talk]]) 20:16, 15 May 2012 (UTC)Javaweb


Although the article says this organization is far right the other substantive portions of the article seem to indicate that the group is left wing and supports parties generally seem as on the left E.g. Democrats in the United States. Should this be removed? [[Special:Contributions/73.48.251.0|73.48.251.0]] ([[User talk:73.48.251.0|talk]]) 03:28, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
== PublicEye.org ==
:The categorization includes it under [[:Category:Syncretic political movements]]. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 18:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


== Europe section ==
[http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/nclc3.html This] is used as a reference in the article. It appears to be a fairly partisan source, as well as self-published. I thought that it had been decided some time ago that books published by Chip Berlet were ok as sources, because they had been fact-checked by independent publishers, but that Berlet's self-published web-based opinions were not reliable. Am I wrong? [[User:Cla68|Cla68]] ([[User talk:Cla68|talk]]) 23:03, 28 May 2012 (UTC)


I'm copying the whole of the current Europe section here because I'm going to delete most of it from the article. My reasons for deletion are that it has a lot of unreferenced statements, relies excessively and (in parts) exclusively on primary sources, and because most of it does not contain anything controversial despite being in the Controversy section of the article. It's just like a list of "Look this European country also has a branch of the movement, and this European person said they like LaRouche". I won't delete the stuff that is actually about something controversial.
:What about "Liberation News Service,""Crawdaddy," "New York Committee to Stop Terrorist Attacks," "the Daily World," "the Militant," "Workers Power," "the Fifth Estate," "the Boston Phoenix," and "the Drummer"? Are those considered good sources? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.3.81.198|99.3.81.198]] ([[User talk:99.3.81.198|talk]]) 05:28, 29 May 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
So here's the copied European section:


<!--The first paragraph of this section jumps from BüSo to Patriot party and then back to BüSo again. Might make sense to change order-->The LaRouche Movement has a major center in Germany. The {{lang|de|[[Bürgerrechtsbewegung Solidarität]]}} (BüSo) (Civil Rights Movement Solidarity) political party is headed by [[Helga Zepp-LaRouche]], LaRouche's widow. It has nominated candidates for elective office and publishes the ''{{lang|de|Neue Solidarität}}'' newspaper.{{cn|date=August 2024}} Zepp-LaRouche is also the head of the German-based [[Schiller Institute]]. <!-- Die Europäische Arbeiterpartei --> In 1986, Zepp-LaRouche formed the "Patriots for Germany" party, and announced that it would run a full slate of 100 candidates. The party received 0.2 percent of the 4 million votes and "failed to elect any candidates to the parliament".<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1986_245831|title=Narrow state election victory gives boost to Kohl coalition|work=[[Houston Chronicle]]|date=June 16, 1986|access-date=January 30, 2008|archive-date=January 14, 2009|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20090114071838/http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1986_245831|url-status=live}}</ref> In Germany, the leader of the Green Party, [[Petra Kelly]], reported receiving harassing phone calls that she attributed to BüSo supporters. Her speeches were picketed and disrupted by LaRouche followers for years.<ref>{{cite news|title=LaRouche Stirs in Germany |author=James M. Markham |work=The New York Times|date=June 30, 1986}}</ref>[[Jeremiah Duggan]], a student from the UK attending a conference organized by the Schiller Institute and LaRouche Youth Movement in 2003, died in Wiesbaden, Germany, after he ran down a busy road and was hit by several cars. The German police said it appeared to be suicide. A British court ruled that Duggan had died while "in a state of terror."<ref name=Witt>[https://web.archive.org/web/20110514004846/http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A46883-2004Oct20?language=printer "No Joke"], By April Witt, ''The Washington Post'' Sunday, October 24, 2004; Page W12</ref> Duggan's mother believes he died in connection with an attempt to recruit him. The German public prosecution service said her son committed suicide.<ref name=Degen>Degen, Wolfgang, [https://web.archive.org/web/20080313011614/http://www.main-rheiner.de/region/objekt.php3?artikel_id=2793524 "Nur die Legende hat ein langes Leben"], ''Wiesbadener Kurier'', April 19, 2007 (German); [https://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20080313011614%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.main-rheiner.de%2Fregion%2Fobjekt.php3%3Fartikel_id%3D2793524&sl=de&tl=en Google translation].</ref> The High Court in London ordered a second inquest in May 2010, which was opened and adjourned.<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8694448.stm "Fresh inquest into student death"] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20100523045903/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8694448.stm |date=May 23, 2010 }}, BBC News, May 20, 2010.</ref> In 2015, a British coroner rejected the suicide verdict and found that Duggan's body bore unexplained injuries which indicated an "altercation at some stage before his death."<ref>[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-32828147 Student Jeremiah Duggan's death not suicide, coroner rules] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170703071242/http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-32828147 |date=July 3, 2017 }}, BBC News, 20 May 2015</ref>''Solidarité et progrès'' (Solidarity and Progress), headed by [[Jacques Cheminade]], is the LaRouche party in France. The party was previously known as ''Parti ouvrier européen'' (European Workers' Party) and ''Fédération pour une nouvelle solidarité'' (Federation for a New Solidarity). Its newspaper is ''Nouvelle Solidarité''.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.solidariteetprogres.org/ |title=Solidarité &; Progrès – Actualit&eacute |publisher=Solidariteetprogres.org |access-date=2008-11-23 |archive-date=May 11, 2011 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110511224753/http://www.solidariteetprogres.org/ |url-status=live }}</ref>{{primary source inline|date=August 2024}} Cheminade ran for [[President of France]] in [[French presidential election, 1995|1995]], [[French presidential election, 2012|2012]] and [[French presidential election 2017|2017]], finishing last each time. The French LaRouche Youth Movement is headed by Élodie Viennot. Viennot supported the candidacy of Daniel Buchmann for the position of mayor of Berlin.{{cn|date=August 2024}}[[File:EAP demonstrerar mot EU - 2008-05-01 - 1.jpg|thumb|LaRouche supporters in Stockholm protesting against the [[Treaty of Lisbon]]]]Sweden has an office of the Schiller Institute (Schillerinstitutet)<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.nysol.se/ |title=LaRoucherörelsen i Sverige |website=Nysol.se |access-date=2008-11-23 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20090122022519/http://www.nysol.se/ |archive-date=January 22, 2009 |url-status=dead }}</ref>{{better source needed}} and the political party [[European Worker's Party]] (EAP). The former leader of the EAP, [[Ulf Sandmark]], started as a member of the [[Swedish Social Democratic Youth League]] (SSU), and was assigned to investigate the EAP and the ELC. After joining the EAP, he had his membership in SSU revoked. Following the [[Olof Palme assassination]] on February 28, 1986, the Swedish branch of the EAP came under scrutiny as literature published by the party was found in the apartment of the initial suspect, [[Victor Gunnarsson]]. Soon after the assassination, [[NBC]] television in the U.S. speculated{{cn|date=August 2024}} that LaRouche was somehow responsible.<ref name=brainwash>{{Cite web|url=https://larouchepub.com/exon/exon_toc.html|title=Has Your Neighbor Been Brainwashed About Lyndon LaRouche?|website=larouchepub.com|access-date=September 7, 2020|archive-date=September 16, 2020|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200916092832/https://larouchepub.com/exon/exon_toc.html|url-status=live}}</ref>{{primary source inline|date=August 2024}} Later, the suspect was released. No connection with LaRouche was shown.{{cn|date=August 2024}}In Denmark, four candidates for parliament on the LaRouche platform (Tom Gillesberg, Feride Istogu Gillesberg and Hans Schultz)<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.schillerinstitut.dk/ |title=Schiller Instituttet i Danmark |publisher=Schillerinstitut.dk |access-date=2008-11-23 |archive-date=October 11, 2007 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20071011054136/http://schillerinstitut.dk/ |url-status=live }}</ref>{{primary source inline|date=August 2024}} received 197 votes in the [[2007 Danish general election|2007 election]] (at least 32,000 votes are needed for a local mandate). The Danish LaRouche Movement (Schiller Instituttet)'s first newspaper distributed 50,000 copies around Copenhagen and [[Aarhus]].<ref>[http://www.sive.dk/kampagneaviser.htm Schiller Instituttet Kampagnaviser] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20071109233029/http://www.sive.dk/kampagneaviser.htm |date=November 9, 2007 }} Schiller Instituttes Venner webpage</ref>{{primary source inline|date=August 2024}}The {{lang|it|Movimento Solidarietà{{snd}}Associazione di LaRouche in Italia}} (MSA) is an Italian political party headed by Paolo Raimondi that supports the LaRouche platform.{{cn|date=August 2024}}Ortrun Cramer of the Schiller Institute became a delegate of the Austrian [[International Progress Organization]] in the 1990s, but there is no sign of ongoing relationship.<ref>{{Cite web |url=http://www.ispac-italy.org/ngoprof.php?Org_ID=105 |title=Non-governmental, Individual Experts, Academic, Scientific, Research and Professional Organizations |access-date=July 23, 2007 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20041214011804/http://www.ispac-italy.org/ngoprof.php?Org_ID=105 |archive-date=December 14, 2004 |url-status=dead }}</ref>{{better source needed}}<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.larouchepub.com/tv/tlc_programs_2000.html |title=LaRouche Connection Master List 1995–present |publisher=Larouchepub.com |access-date=2008-10-23 |archive-date=August 4, 2007 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20070804164245/http://www.larouchepub.com/tv/tlc_programs_2000.html |url-status=live }}</ref>{{primary source inline|date=August 2024}}Polish newspapers{{which|date=August 2024}} have reported that [[Andrzej Lepper]], leader of the populist [[Samoobrona]] party, was trained at the Schiller Institute and has received funding from LaRouche, though both Lepper and LaRouche deny the connection.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2001-2/poland.htm |title=Antisemitism and Racism |publisher=Tau.ac.il |access-date=2008-11-23 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080404043228/http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2001-2/poland.htm |archive-date=April 4, 2008 }}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2001/011228poland_lies.html |title=LaRouche Committee Denounces Polish Press Lies |publisher=Larouchepub.com |access-date=2008-11-23 |archive-date=December 14, 2004 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20041214131939/http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2001/011228poland_lies.html |url-status=live }}</ref>[[Nataliya Vitrenko]], leader of the [[Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine]], has stated multiple times that she supports LaRouche's ideals.{{cn|date=August 2024}}In February 2008, the LaRouche movement in Europe began a campaign to prevent the ratification of the [[Treaty of Lisbon]], which, according to the U.S.-based LaRouche Political Action Committee, "empowers a supranational financial elite to take over the right of taxation and war making, and even restore the death penalty, abolished in most nations of Western Europe."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/italian-senator-exposes-secret-plan-fascism-europe.html |title=Italian Senator Exposes Secret Plan for Fascism in Europe &#124; LaRouche Political Action Committee |publisher=Larouchepac.com |access-date=2008-11-23 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20081109211214/http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/italian-senator-exposes-secret-plan-fascism-europe.html |archive-date=November 9, 2008}}</ref>{{primary source inline|date=August 2024}} LaRouche press releases suggest that the treaty has an underlying fascist agenda, based on the "[[Europe a Nation]]" ideas of Sir [[Oswald Mosley]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/lisbon-treaty-based-program-british-fascist-oswald-mosley.html |title=Lisbon Treaty Based on Program of British Fascist Oswald Mosley &#124; LaRouche Political Action Committee |publisher=Larouchepac.com |access-date=2008-11-23 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080908023438/http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/lisbon-treaty-based-program-british-fascist-oswald-mosley.html |archive-date=September 8, 2008}}</ref>{{primary source inline|date=August 2024}} [[User:Nakonana|Nakonana]] ([[User talk:Nakonana|talk]]) 21:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
== "no reference here to persons, only parties and factions" ==


:Actually decided against deletion and instead moved everything non-controversial to the International section, and kept the controversial stuff in the Controversy section. The relevant edits: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=LaRouche_movement&diff=1238054665&oldid=1238054287] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=LaRouche_movement&diff=1238055545&oldid=1238054665] [[User:Nakonana|Nakonana]] ([[User talk:Nakonana|talk]]) 21:50, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
I find it ironic that BLPCRIME is invoked to remove references to crimes committed by "followers," "two NCLC organizers," and "two NCLC organizers," but when we refer to identifiable living person "Mark Rudd's faction," at Columbia "assaulting" people, all of a sudden "no reference here to persons, only parties and factions," BLPCRIME no longer applies. Perhaps a double standard? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]]) 08:42, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
:It was clearly improper to implicitly link Rudd to the violence. The book does, appear, to state that Rudd did head one "faction" so the claims had to be delinked per [[WP:BLP]]. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 12:15, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


{{reflist-talk}}
::::I started a discussion of BLPCRIME and this article at the BLP noticeboard. Since we still need to reduce the section per the earlier Request for Comment, taking out the allegations of crime where there were no convictions seems to me to be a good place to be reducing. [[User:Waalkes|Waalkes]] ([[User talk:Waalkes|talk]]) 21:28, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:16, 28 September 2024

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Who is Weld?

[edit]

"According to courtroom testimony by FBI agent Richard Egan, Jeffrey and Michelle Steinberg, the heads of LaRouche's security unit, boasted of placing harassing phone calls all through the night to the general counsel of the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) when the FEC was investigating LaRouche's political contributions.[41]

During the grand jury hearings followers picketed the courthouse, chanted "Weld is a fag",[78] distributed leaflets accusing Weld of involvement in drug dealing, and "sang a jingle advocating that he be hanged in public".[79]" This is the first and only mention of Weld in this article. Who is this?

William Weld 2605:A601:A0C0:AA00:7700:61AA:B056:8B0B (talk) 22:08, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Far right?

[edit]

Although the article says this organization is far right the other substantive portions of the article seem to indicate that the group is left wing and supports parties generally seem as on the left E.g. Democrats in the United States. Should this be removed? 73.48.251.0 (talk) 03:28, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The categorization includes it under Category:Syncretic political movements. Dimadick (talk) 18:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Europe section

[edit]

I'm copying the whole of the current Europe section here because I'm going to delete most of it from the article. My reasons for deletion are that it has a lot of unreferenced statements, relies excessively and (in parts) exclusively on primary sources, and because most of it does not contain anything controversial despite being in the Controversy section of the article. It's just like a list of "Look this European country also has a branch of the movement, and this European person said they like LaRouche". I won't delete the stuff that is actually about something controversial. So here's the copied European section:

The LaRouche Movement has a major center in Germany. The Bürgerrechtsbewegung Solidarität (BüSo) (Civil Rights Movement Solidarity) political party is headed by Helga Zepp-LaRouche, LaRouche's widow. It has nominated candidates for elective office and publishes the Neue Solidarität newspaper.[citation needed] Zepp-LaRouche is also the head of the German-based Schiller Institute. In 1986, Zepp-LaRouche formed the "Patriots for Germany" party, and announced that it would run a full slate of 100 candidates. The party received 0.2 percent of the 4 million votes and "failed to elect any candidates to the parliament".[1] In Germany, the leader of the Green Party, Petra Kelly, reported receiving harassing phone calls that she attributed to BüSo supporters. Her speeches were picketed and disrupted by LaRouche followers for years.[2]Jeremiah Duggan, a student from the UK attending a conference organized by the Schiller Institute and LaRouche Youth Movement in 2003, died in Wiesbaden, Germany, after he ran down a busy road and was hit by several cars. The German police said it appeared to be suicide. A British court ruled that Duggan had died while "in a state of terror."[3] Duggan's mother believes he died in connection with an attempt to recruit him. The German public prosecution service said her son committed suicide.[4] The High Court in London ordered a second inquest in May 2010, which was opened and adjourned.[5] In 2015, a British coroner rejected the suicide verdict and found that Duggan's body bore unexplained injuries which indicated an "altercation at some stage before his death."[6]Solidarité et progrès (Solidarity and Progress), headed by Jacques Cheminade, is the LaRouche party in France. The party was previously known as Parti ouvrier européen (European Workers' Party) and Fédération pour une nouvelle solidarité (Federation for a New Solidarity). Its newspaper is Nouvelle Solidarité.[7][non-primary source needed] Cheminade ran for President of France in 1995, 2012 and 2017, finishing last each time. The French LaRouche Youth Movement is headed by Élodie Viennot. Viennot supported the candidacy of Daniel Buchmann for the position of mayor of Berlin.[citation needed]

LaRouche supporters in Stockholm protesting against the Treaty of Lisbon

Sweden has an office of the Schiller Institute (Schillerinstitutet)[8][better source needed] and the political party European Worker's Party (EAP). The former leader of the EAP, Ulf Sandmark, started as a member of the Swedish Social Democratic Youth League (SSU), and was assigned to investigate the EAP and the ELC. After joining the EAP, he had his membership in SSU revoked. Following the Olof Palme assassination on February 28, 1986, the Swedish branch of the EAP came under scrutiny as literature published by the party was found in the apartment of the initial suspect, Victor Gunnarsson. Soon after the assassination, NBC television in the U.S. speculated[citation needed] that LaRouche was somehow responsible.[9][non-primary source needed] Later, the suspect was released. No connection with LaRouche was shown.[citation needed]In Denmark, four candidates for parliament on the LaRouche platform (Tom Gillesberg, Feride Istogu Gillesberg and Hans Schultz)[10][non-primary source needed] received 197 votes in the 2007 election (at least 32,000 votes are needed for a local mandate). The Danish LaRouche Movement (Schiller Instituttet)'s first newspaper distributed 50,000 copies around Copenhagen and Aarhus.[11][non-primary source needed]The Movimento Solidarietà – Associazione di LaRouche in Italia (MSA) is an Italian political party headed by Paolo Raimondi that supports the LaRouche platform.[citation needed]Ortrun Cramer of the Schiller Institute became a delegate of the Austrian International Progress Organization in the 1990s, but there is no sign of ongoing relationship.[12][better source needed][13][non-primary source needed]Polish newspapers[which?] have reported that Andrzej Lepper, leader of the populist Samoobrona party, was trained at the Schiller Institute and has received funding from LaRouche, though both Lepper and LaRouche deny the connection.[14][15]Nataliya Vitrenko, leader of the Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, has stated multiple times that she supports LaRouche's ideals.[citation needed]In February 2008, the LaRouche movement in Europe began a campaign to prevent the ratification of the Treaty of Lisbon, which, according to the U.S.-based LaRouche Political Action Committee, "empowers a supranational financial elite to take over the right of taxation and war making, and even restore the death penalty, abolished in most nations of Western Europe."[16][non-primary source needed] LaRouche press releases suggest that the treaty has an underlying fascist agenda, based on the "Europe a Nation" ideas of Sir Oswald Mosley.[17][non-primary source needed] Nakonana (talk) 21:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually decided against deletion and instead moved everything non-controversial to the International section, and kept the controversial stuff in the Controversy section. The relevant edits: [1] [2] Nakonana (talk) 21:50, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Narrow state election victory gives boost to Kohl coalition". Houston Chronicle. June 16, 1986. Archived from the original on January 14, 2009. Retrieved January 30, 2008.
  2. ^ James M. Markham (June 30, 1986). "LaRouche Stirs in Germany". The New York Times.
  3. ^ "No Joke", By April Witt, The Washington Post Sunday, October 24, 2004; Page W12
  4. ^ Degen, Wolfgang, "Nur die Legende hat ein langes Leben", Wiesbadener Kurier, April 19, 2007 (German); Google translation.
  5. ^ "Fresh inquest into student death" Archived May 23, 2010, at the Wayback Machine, BBC News, May 20, 2010.
  6. ^ Student Jeremiah Duggan's death not suicide, coroner rules Archived July 3, 2017, at the Wayback Machine, BBC News, 20 May 2015
  7. ^ "Solidarité &; Progrès – Actualit&eacute". Solidariteetprogres.org. Archived from the original on May 11, 2011. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
  8. ^ "LaRoucherörelsen i Sverige". Nysol.se. Archived from the original on January 22, 2009. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
  9. ^ "Has Your Neighbor Been Brainwashed About Lyndon LaRouche?". larouchepub.com. Archived from the original on September 16, 2020. Retrieved September 7, 2020.
  10. ^ "Schiller Instituttet i Danmark". Schillerinstitut.dk. Archived from the original on October 11, 2007. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
  11. ^ Schiller Instituttet Kampagnaviser Archived November 9, 2007, at the Wayback Machine Schiller Instituttes Venner webpage
  12. ^ "Non-governmental, Individual Experts, Academic, Scientific, Research and Professional Organizations". Archived from the original on December 14, 2004. Retrieved July 23, 2007.
  13. ^ "LaRouche Connection Master List 1995–present". Larouchepub.com. Archived from the original on August 4, 2007. Retrieved 2008-10-23.
  14. ^ "Antisemitism and Racism". Tau.ac.il. Archived from the original on April 4, 2008. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
  15. ^ "LaRouche Committee Denounces Polish Press Lies". Larouchepub.com. Archived from the original on December 14, 2004. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
  16. ^ "Italian Senator Exposes Secret Plan for Fascism in Europe | LaRouche Political Action Committee". Larouchepac.com. Archived from the original on November 9, 2008. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
  17. ^ "Lisbon Treaty Based on Program of British Fascist Oswald Mosley | LaRouche Political Action Committee". Larouchepac.com. Archived from the original on September 8, 2008. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
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