Talk:Nazca lines: Difference between revisions
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== Shamanic Flight == |
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There is no mention of the possibility of the use of shamanic flight in the creation of the lines; whether it be in the design process, or as part of the motivation to create the lines. |
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== Nazca Lines pictures == |
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I think there should be more pictures of Nazca Lines. |
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== Need Help Made Major Discovery == |
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I think I discovered the meaning of the needle and loom glyph... I need to know who to talk to, this is pretty big. No one has published anything about it, and it's very important. [[User:Nousoul|Nousoul]] 08:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC) |
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== Where is Maria Reiche, and who is Michael Vaillant? == |
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As the article stands now, the work of history's most celebrated and long-standing mainstream Nazca researcher — Maria Reiche — receives barely one sentence of coverage. She is still a huge name in this subject (though apparently mostly wrong in her astronomical alignment theory), and a national hero in Peru for her pioneering work -- and yet her full name doesn't even appear in the article (except as part of the name of a foundation)! |
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On the other hand, a "recent hypothesis from Michael Vaillant" receives three paragraphs. |
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Who is Michael Vaillant, and why is his hypothesis worth bringing to the attention of Wikipedia readers? Leaving aside the merits of his idea (very poor, it seems to me), and leaving aside his qualifications (unknown, ) he is evidently a poorly known figure commenting from outside of Nazca archaeology: Google reveals only 62 wiki entries as hits for "Michael Vaillant"+nazca, most of them copied directly from this Wikipedia entry. (By comparison, "Maria Reiche"+nazca scores 34,300 hits, for good reason.) |
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The primary source for Vaillant's hypothesis, linked to in this Wikipedia article, is itself a wiki: something called U-Sphere, for which the "Contacter l'administrateur du site" listing is in fact Michael Vaillant. |
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This looks very much like original research, and should probably be cut entirely. (Or, at best, reduced to a single sentence.) |
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At any rate, the scant coverage of Maria Reiche's decades of on-site work and the heavy coverage of Vaillant's notion is a gross misrepresentation of the state of the field, and should be reversed. For now, I'm going to go ahead and cut the Vaillant material completely. |
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[[User:Loxton|Loxton]] ([[User talk:Loxton|talk]]) 01:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC) |
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== Names for individual geoglyphs == |
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== Horribly POV == |
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The "Images" section presents images of a subset of the Nazca Lines — it's unclear why this subset is chosen, but I presume it's just all of the lines that have high-quality freely licenced images on the Commons. |
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This article is littered with unencyclopediatic italisized "''why''"s and unsourced POV statements that completely ruin the neutrality and tone of the article, and it almost completely lacks footnotes. [[User:TheOtherSiguy|TheOtherSiguy]] ([[User talk:TheOtherSiguy|talk]]) 19:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC) |
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Each of these images has a caption that appears to be the name of the depicted Nazca Line, but does not currently cite any sources for these names. Most of them use the definite article to indicate they are the ''only'' such Nazca Line representing that particular subject, and they are capitalized as proper nouns, not merely descriptions. (Elsewhere in the article, such as the "Rediscovery" section, they are referred to in sentence case, but still with the definite article.) These captions leave the impression on the reader that they are in fact the official names of the geoglyphs, or at the very least their common names. It's quite possible that individual Nazca Lines don't really have names at all, in which case the image captions should be adjusted to reflect that. |
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== The correct spelling of the name is Nasca .... == |
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The [[Commons:Category:Nazca lines|Commons categories]] use Spanish names, which seem more likely to be official names for them given they are located in Spanish-speaking countries. Although the Commons categories don't cite any sources for these names either (not that you would expect them to). |
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...., not Nazca. Even articles within Wikipedia show such spelling. |
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In particular, [[:File:Líneas de Nazca, Nazca, Perú, 2015-07-29, DD 46.JPG|this image]] is captioned "The Giant", but the file description page indicates it is called "Owlman" and "Astronaut". Without a reliable source to establish one of these three names, I'm not sure which this article should use. [[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 11:38, 19 September 2022 (UTC) |
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Unfortunately, we can see the wrong spelling even locally. |
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== Scales needed for "Images" section == |
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== Map theory == |
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For a common reader, it would be helpful if there were a short scale (e.g. metres/feet) drawn near corner of each image. Of course, the text gives a general idea of their magnitude but they vary. Wherever the pictures are taken, someone with knowledge of individual figures might have a scale added. [[Special:Contributions/217.140.200.221|217.140.200.221]] ([[User talk:217.140.200.221|talk]]) 21:02, 20 October 2022 (UTC) |
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According to Zoltan Zelko's theory the straight lines of Nazca Lines represent a specific type of map of the area where the Nazca culture has florished, with 1:16 scale. Crossing points of lines: emphasized objects (e.g. settlements, fortresses, etc.). Lines themselves are denoting the "watching directions" connecting these objects. |
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== How were the lines made so straight? == |
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To prove his theory he could fit a certain area of the Nazca Lines (after magnifying it to 16 times of the original) very precisely onto the map of the area of Lake Titicaca. Crossig points of lines of the Nazca drawing perfectly fall onto contemporary or historical settlements (i.e. the ruins of the latter). There is a "technical certification" of the suitability of the cartographic techniques he has used by an independent expert in his book (see below). |
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It it possible that long stretched ropes were used in order to help ensure that the lines were drawn perfectly straight? [[Special:Contributions/173.88.246.138|173.88.246.138]] ([[User talk:173.88.246.138|talk]]) 03:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC) |
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Note: Zoltán Zelko thinks there is a substantial difference between the 2 subsets of Nazca figures: the simple geometric shapes and lines on one hand (that he interprets as a map) and the complex drawings (e.g. animals, plants) on the other hand. |
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== Does the alien nonsense warrant an entire section? == |
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He published his theory in the following book: |
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Author: Zoltan Zelko |
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Title: A kosivatag titka (Hungarian, means: Secret of the Desert) |
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Publisher: Magveto Kiado, Budapest, Hungary, 1982 |
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ISBN: 963 271 666 3 |
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I have the book in Hungarian language. I do not know about any English or other language editions of this work. |
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There is already a section in the article denoted for speculations regarding its purpose, not that any of the unabashedly racist works of von Däniken should be anywhere near the actual informed speculations of archaeologists anyways. He should be a footnote of that section. |
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Hungarian Television made a documentary film on his theory and Zoltan Zelko's trip to the Nazca Lines and Lake Titicaca in the 1980's that I have seen as a child. I have only the following additional information on the film: |
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Director: Jose Andres Laczko |
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Director of Photography: Karoly Boldizsar |
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Other pages that cover sites or artifacts with fringe extraterrestrial theories surrounding them do not typically have sections devoted to von Däniken, and giving him an entire section of a Wikipedia article would look unfortunately legitimizing to an otherwise uninformed browser. [[User:CarpinchoCamayuc|CarpinchoCamayuc]] ([[User talk:CarpinchoCamayuc|talk]]) 07:37, 27 February 2023 (UTC) |
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As Mr. Zelko's theory is scientifically proven (in contrary to other hypotheses included in the current article) I propose to mention the "map theory" briefly in the "Purpose" section of the article and put this book into the "References" section. I would highly welcome your help in doing that if you think this is valid and reliable information. |
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:No, and seeing no one objected, I will likely remove the section in a day or so unless someone objects. [[User:LegalSmeagolian|LegalSmeagolian]] ([[User talk:LegalSmeagolian|talk]]) 01:19, 4 May 2024 (UTC) |
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Thanks, |
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[[Special:Contributions/84.3.77.113|84.3.77.113]] ([[User talk:84.3.77.113|talk]]) 01:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC) Gabor |
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== Featured picture scheduled for POTD == |
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== Maria Reiche == |
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Hello! This is to let editors know that [[:File:Líneas de_Nazca,_Nazca,_Perú,_2015-07-29,_DD_49.JPG]], a [[Wikipedia:Featured pictures|featured picture]] used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Picture of the day|picture of the day]] (POTD) for May 4, 2024. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at [[Template:POTD/2024-05-04]]. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the [[Main Page]]. If you have any concerns, please place a message at [[Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day]]. Thank you! — [[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 10:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC) <!-- Template:UpcomingPOTD --> |
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There is a very good but short chapter in Bruce Chatwin's, "What Am I Doing Here" (isbn: 0-224-02634-8)called "Maria Reiche: The Riddle of The Pampa". It was written in 1975 and gives a very interesting account of their meeting in the Peruvian desert, and may be worthy of a link/mention? Zelenka [[Special:Contributions/203.26.122.8|203.26.122.8]] ([[User talk:203.26.122.8|talk]]) 01:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC) |
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<div style="margin-top:4px; border:1px solid #ddcef2; background:#faf5ff; overflow:auto;"><div style="margin:0.6em 0.4em 0.1em;">{{POTD/Day|2024-05-04|excludeheader=yes}}</div></div> |
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== AI helps uncover hundreds of unknown ancient symbols hidden in Peru’s Nazca Desert == |
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== Help me out for a project == |
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[https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/27/science/ai-nazca-geoglyphs-peru/index.html] [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 11:20, 29 September 2024 (UTC) |
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Ok, get this. I have to write a story about traveling to South America, and i can't find any decent information on the Nazca Lines. If you find any brief information on this particular thing in south america, send it to: bradyshepherdgirl@gmail.com. '''Thank You!''' |
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Names for individual geoglyphs
[edit]The "Images" section presents images of a subset of the Nazca Lines — it's unclear why this subset is chosen, but I presume it's just all of the lines that have high-quality freely licenced images on the Commons.
Each of these images has a caption that appears to be the name of the depicted Nazca Line, but does not currently cite any sources for these names. Most of them use the definite article to indicate they are the only such Nazca Line representing that particular subject, and they are capitalized as proper nouns, not merely descriptions. (Elsewhere in the article, such as the "Rediscovery" section, they are referred to in sentence case, but still with the definite article.) These captions leave the impression on the reader that they are in fact the official names of the geoglyphs, or at the very least their common names. It's quite possible that individual Nazca Lines don't really have names at all, in which case the image captions should be adjusted to reflect that.
The Commons categories use Spanish names, which seem more likely to be official names for them given they are located in Spanish-speaking countries. Although the Commons categories don't cite any sources for these names either (not that you would expect them to).
In particular, this image is captioned "The Giant", but the file description page indicates it is called "Owlman" and "Astronaut". Without a reliable source to establish one of these three names, I'm not sure which this article should use. SnorlaxMonster 11:38, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Scales needed for "Images" section
[edit]For a common reader, it would be helpful if there were a short scale (e.g. metres/feet) drawn near corner of each image. Of course, the text gives a general idea of their magnitude but they vary. Wherever the pictures are taken, someone with knowledge of individual figures might have a scale added. 217.140.200.221 (talk) 21:02, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
How were the lines made so straight?
[edit]It it possible that long stretched ropes were used in order to help ensure that the lines were drawn perfectly straight? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Does the alien nonsense warrant an entire section?
[edit]There is already a section in the article denoted for speculations regarding its purpose, not that any of the unabashedly racist works of von Däniken should be anywhere near the actual informed speculations of archaeologists anyways. He should be a footnote of that section.
Other pages that cover sites or artifacts with fringe extraterrestrial theories surrounding them do not typically have sections devoted to von Däniken, and giving him an entire section of a Wikipedia article would look unfortunately legitimizing to an otherwise uninformed browser. CarpinchoCamayuc (talk) 07:37, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
- No, and seeing no one objected, I will likely remove the section in a day or so unless someone objects. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 01:19, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Featured picture scheduled for POTD
[edit]Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Líneas de_Nazca,_Nazca,_Perú,_2015-07-29,_DD_49.JPG, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for May 4, 2024. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2024-05-04. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! — Amakuru (talk) 10:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
The Nazca lines are a group of geoglyphs made in the soil of the Nazca Desert in southern Peru. They were created in two major phases – the Paracas phase (from 400 to 200 BC) and the Nazca phase (from 200 BC to 500 AD). The combined length of all the lines is more than 1,300 km (800 mi), and the group covers an area of about 50 km2 (19 sq mi). Most lines run straight across the landscape, but there are also figurative designs of animals and plants. Scholars differ in interpreting the purpose of the designs, but in general, they ascribe religious significance to them. The lines were designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1994. This is an aerial view of the geoglyph known as the "monkey", one of the most well-known of the Nazca lines. Photograph credit: Diego Delso
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AI helps uncover hundreds of unknown ancient symbols hidden in Peru’s Nazca Desert
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