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Discussion regarding referring to Anti-Fascism as a decentralised movement?

I thought it might be appropriate, given it is a goal or mode of operation for many groups to enact. Given there is no "antifa", it is normally organised locally and specifically in response to fascist movements. KeebisBored (talk) 09:38, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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-== What happened 1939-1941? ==
-The period [[Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact]]-[[Operation Barbarossa]] deserves to be described here.[[User:Xx234|Xx234]] ([[User talk:Xx234|talk]]) 08:59, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
+== Discussion regarding referring to Anti-Fascism as a decentralised movement? ==
-:No, it should not. Anti-facist describes anti-Mussolini movements within Italy. There is no article for anti-nazism or anti-facism. [[User:CheeseInTea|CheeseInTea]] ([[User talk:CheeseInTea|talk]]) 17:47, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
+I thought it might be appropriate, given it is a goal or mode of operation for many groups to enact. Given there is no "antifa", it is normally organised locally and specifically in response to fascist movements. [[User:KeebisBored|KeebisBored]] ([[User talk:KeebisBored|talk]]) 09:38, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
-:: {{re|CheeseInTea}} there’s no point in responding to a 2025 post, but it’s pretty clear you haven’t read the article in any case. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:15, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
-== References ==
-{{reflist}}
-== 1930-32: Germany ==
-Hello, I have (rudimentarily) translated a section of the German Wikipedia.
-https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschismus
-Perhaps this is of use. I'm a German native speaker, and my English is good enough that you can be sure that whilst the style is clearly in need of improvement, the contents as such has been faithfully retained. Sorry for the missing caps.
-German:
-wuchs die NSDAP sprunghaft zur zweitstärksten Partei nach der SPD. Erst daraufhin definierte die KPD die NSDAP erstmals als Hauptgegner. Einige KPD-Vertreter räumten ein, die Gefahr des Nationalsozialismus unterschätzt zu haben. Im Juli 1930 legte sich die KPD auf Betreiben Stalins auf einen „nationalen“ Kurs anstelle von Klassenkampfparolen fest, um NSDAP-Wähler zu gewinnen.[42] Sie sah schon die Notverordnungen Heinrich Brünings (Deutsche Zentrumspartei) als „Faschismus an der Macht“ und rief zum Kampf gegen die SPD auf, weil diese Brüning stützte. 1931 trat KPD-Führer Heinz Neumann bei NSDAP-Treffen unter anderem mit Joseph Goebbels auf und rief, die Kommunisten wollten keinen „Bruderkampf“ mit den Nationalsozialisten. Zudem unterstützte die KPD einen von NSDAP, DNVP und Stahlhelm eingeleiteten Volksentscheid gegen die SPD-Landesregierung in Preußen. Nur sehr wenige NSDAP-Vertreter traten zur KPD über. Diese gewann zwar bis 1932 etwa 150.000 neue Mitglieder, konnte sie aber kaum integrieren und verlor zugleich ihre Verankerung in den Gewerkschaften.[43] Mit Bezug auf diesen KPD-Kurs setzten führende SPD-Vertreter wie Rudolf Breitscheid, Karl Kautsky, Kurt Schumacher und Otto Wels „Bolschewismus“ (Sowjetkommunismus) und Faschismus öffentlich gleich.[44]
-English:
-In 1930, the nsdap abruptly rose to be the second-strongest party, second to the SPD. It was only after this happened that the KPD did define the NSDAP as its major opponent. Some KDP representatives admitted to having underestimated the danger of national socialism. In july 1930, as a result of interference from Stalin, the kpd changed their political focus from class warfare paroles to a nationalistic strategy in order to win nsdap voters. the kpd saw in the notverordnungen (emergency directives) of heinrich brüning (zentrum party) as "fascism in power" and called for a fight against the SPD who was backing brüning. 1931 kpd leader heinz neumann visited nsdpa gatherings in which among others joseph goebbels participated, and in his speeches proclaimed that the communists did not want a "war of brothers" against the national socialists. furthermore the kpd supported a referendum against the spd state government of prussia that was initiated by the nsdap, dnvp and stahlhelm (steel helmet party). only few nsdap representatives left the their party for the kpd. whilst the kpd did win about 150,000 of new members until 1932, it was hardly capable of integrating those new members and at the same time lost ist anchoring in the labor unions. with reference to this course of the kpd, leading spd representatives such as breidscheid, kautsky, schumacher and wels publicly equated bolschevism (soviet communism) and fascism.
-== End of Fascism as a state ideology ==
-The article suggests that fascism ended as a State ideology with the defeat of the WW2 Axis powers ignoring Spain, Portugal or (arguably) South Africa where it endured for several decades thereafter ? [[Special:Contributions/109.158.106.62|109.158.106.62]] ([[User talk:109.158.106.62|talk]]) 12:57, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
-:Those States are generally not considered fascist by most experts on the subject. [[User:3Kingdoms|3Kingdoms]] ([[User talk:3Kingdoms|talk]]) 15:19, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
-== Death attributed to Anti-Fascism  ==
-About a week ago I updated the part where it was said that there has been no death attributed to Anti-fascism by saying that after the study was published 1 killing has been attributed to anti-fascism, the [[Killings of Aaron Danielson and Michael Reinoehl]], which has since been reverted. The article from the Guardian was given an editor's note says this. As well on the page itself for the killings list anti-fascism as the motive and most sources cited there repeat that. Personally, I think there is enough evidence to add, but what do others think? [[User:3Kingdoms|3Kingdoms]] ([[User talk:3Kingdoms|talk]]) 15:26, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
-:It would probably make more sense to cite [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremacists-rightwing-domestic-terror-2020 this], which is cited in that editor's note and explicitly mentions the Danielson shooting, rather than trying to cite the editor's note itself. You also added the claim that {{tpq|22 death {{sic}} [were] attributed more generally to [[left-wing terrorism]]}}, but the relevance of that "more general" claim to this article that's specifically about anti-fascism isn't at all clear. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Arms & Hearts|Arms & Hearts]] ([[User talk:Arms & Hearts|talk]]) 14:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
-::The rationale for adding left-wing terrorism in general was meant to contrast with the number from right-wing terrorism. I can see why it was removed. Should the right-wing deaths also be removed? [[User:3Kingdoms|3Kingdoms]] ([[User talk:3Kingdoms|talk]]) 03:52, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
-:::This is the general anti-fascism article. This detail is discussed at the US page which has the space to go into the nuance. Text here as it is now is good. [[User:Bobfrombrockley|BobFromBrockley]] ([[User talk:Bobfrombrockley|talk]]) 09:29, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
-::::My issue is that the study is out of date due to the [[Killings of Aaron Danielson and Michael Reinoehl]]. If it is not added than I really don't see the point of keeping that whole section up and instead just link to the one for the USA. [[User:3Kingdoms|3Kingdoms]] ([[User talk:3Kingdoms|talk]]) 03:10, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
-== 2019 Tacoma attack and Killing of Aaron Danielson -- No ==
-No, the [[2019 Tacoma attack]] and [[Killing of Aaron Danielson]] were not "done by Antifa," that is a right wing lie. Spray painting "antifa" on things does not make someone a "member of antifa." As the extant article notes, antifa is not an organization or group, it is someone who is anti-fascism -- which is about 90% of the Amercan populace and about 80% of the world's populace. [[User:SoftwareThing|SoftwareThing]] ([[User talk:SoftwareThing|talk]]) 19:23, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
-:The killing of Aaron Danielson was done by Michael Reinoehl as he himself admitted. The killing occurred during the civil unrest in Portland, immediately after a demonstration of far-right Trump supporters, of which Danielson was one. Reinhoehl had previously described himself as "100% ANTIFA all the way!" Antifa is not an incorporated group with strict membership requirements; and earlier in this same article, antifa is described as "a highly decentralized movement. Antifa political activists are anti-racists who engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists." By that very definition, by the nature of the man he targeted, and by his self-admissions, Reinoehl's actions can be considered to be inspired by or in service to the cause of antifa.
-:My edits contain no language to suggest that these actions were "done by antifa," as you claim; merely that the movement has been noted as a motivating factor in both of those instances. [[User:PhotogenicScientist|PhotogenicScientist]] ([[User talk:PhotogenicScientist|talk]]) 21:58, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
-:: Which was not Antifa. Read the article. Antifa does not exist, 90% of Americans are anti-fascists. [[User:SoftwareThing|SoftwareThing]] ([[User talk:SoftwareThing|talk]]) 22:36, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
-:*The NPR source you keep adding doesn't support your statements. First, you cannot change the results of the June 2020 study - they are what they are whether you agree with them or not. Second, [[WP:HEADLINES]] are not appropriate to cite; the body of the NPR source is much more cautious and does not directly state any of the things you're citing it for. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] ([[User talk:Aquillion|talk]]) 00:24, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
-::: Which, again, is not antifa. I'm done arguing with fascists. Do not put the text back. [[User:SoftwareThing|SoftwareThing]] ([[User talk:SoftwareThing|talk]]) 01:20, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
-:::The NPR source has no bearing on the study; I added it because it adds context to the single death noted by the study. Moreover, I've never said anything inaccurate about the study - as I said in my edit summary, the csis.org link is not the comprehensive study. The study DID in fact find "1 death" linked to antifa, as attested by the businessinsider source. Before you revert my edit again, I challenge you to present a source for the comprehensive study, showing that it does not mention this death. [[User:PhotogenicScientist|PhotogenicScientist]] ([[User talk:PhotogenicScientist|talk]]) 14:25, 24 August 2022 (UTC)