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== "Jim Gomez" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
<!--Template:Archivebox begins-->
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{| class="infobox" width="315px"
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect [[:Jim Gomez]]. The discussion will occur at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 October 23#Jim Gomez]] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> <sub>signed, </sub>[[User:Rosguill|'''''Rosguill''''']] <sup>[[User talk:Rosguill|''talk'']]</sup> 20:11, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
|-
! align="center" | [[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]<br />[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]
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# [[Talk:The Ren & Stimpy Show/Archive 1|&ndash; July 15, 2006]]
# [[Talk:The Ren & Stimpy Show/Archive 2|July 15, 2006 &ndash; October 14, 2010]]
# [[Talk:The Ren & Stimpy Show/Archive 3|October 14, 2010 &ndash; August 21, 2013]]
# [[Talk:The Ren & Stimpy Show/Archive 4|August 21, 2013 &ndash; April 1, 2016]]
# <!--[[Talk:The Ren & Stimpy Show/Archive 4|August 21, 2013 &ndash;]]-->
#
|}<!--Template:Archivebox ends-->
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== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[The Ren & Stimpy Show]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=713023537 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.lyris-lite.net/rscuts.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}).

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Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 13:16, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

== List Template Within Article Doesn't Link Properly ==

In the [[The Ren & Stimpy Show#Episodes|Episodes]] section of this article is a list that is copied from the [[List of The Ren & Stimpy Show episodes#Series_overview|List main article]] using the {{:}} template. While the Season links in the [[List of The Ren & Stimpy Show episodes#Series_overview|List main article]] functions correctly (Pilot, 1, 2, 3, etc), the list that appears here in the [[The Ren & Stimpy Show#Episodes|Episodes]] section of this article doesn't function. This is a technical issue that is beyond my expertise, and I wish to bring it to the attention of someone whom knows how to correct this issue.<BR>
[[User:DeNoel|Christopher, Salem, OR]] ([[User talk:DeNoel|talk]]) 04:45, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

:The summary chart doesn't really belong in this article. It only adds a bunch of dates and not much else. I think it should just be removed. [[User:BrightRoundCircle|BrightRoundCircle]] ([[User talk:BrightRoundCircle|talk]]) 10:38, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

{{Agree}}I agree with your opinion, [[User:BrightRoundCircle|BrightRoundCircle]] ([[User talk:BrightRoundCircle|talk]]). Does anyone second this motion?<BR>
[[User:DeNoel|Christopher, Salem, OR]] ([[User talk:DeNoel|talk]]) 05:53, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

== Original run ==

There is [[Talk:The_Ren_%26_Stimpy_Show/Archive_4#Original_run|previous consensus]] that the original run of the series is the Nickelodeon run which ended in 1995 with "A Scooter for Yaksmas". The first MTV run is regarded as a separate run. Before changing the dates, please discuss and reach consensus on the talk page. [[User:BrightRoundCircle|BrightRoundCircle]] ([[User talk:BrightRoundCircle|talk]]) 12:35, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Since there is no Wikipedia policy, guideline, or even a project page that defines what's an "original run" please defer to the existing consensus or create a new one through discussion. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 17:52, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

== What's with the See also? ==

Somebody put stuff in the See Also part of this article that should be on the article for the show's spinoff. Note I am not an admin.--[[Special:Contributions/2602:304:5DDA:ED9:E527:718E:EECB:27E|2602:304:5DDA:ED9:E527:718E:EECB:27E]] ([[User talk:2602:304:5DDA:ED9:E527:718E:EECB:27E|talk]]) 14:25, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

== "Issues" issues ==

The "issues" section is a huge chart that's half-empty and appears [[WP:INDISCRIMINATE]]. It should be presented with context or removed; perhaps if the comics are notable they could be put in their own article. [[User:BrightRoundCircle|BrightRoundCircle]] ([[User talk:BrightRoundCircle|talk]]) 14:57, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
:I set the issues table to "collapsed" by default. [[User:BrightRoundCircle|BrightRoundCircle]] ([[User talk:BrightRoundCircle|talk]]) 17:16, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

== Most popular cable TV show in 1991-1992 ==

"Ren & Stimpy, which in 1991-92 became the most popular US cable TV show ever" - {{citation|title=Farewell Bambi, hello Butt-head|author=Ben Thompson |date=March 20, 1994|work=The Independent|url=http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/television-farewell-bambi-hello-butt-head-forget-disney-and-his-cuddly-animals-the-new-wave-of-1430343.html}}.

[[User:Classicalfan626|Classicalfan626]] why are you disputing this information? [[User:BrightRoundCircle|BrightRoundCircle]] ([[User talk:BrightRoundCircle|talk]]) 18:13, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

== What to do with the tense in the Nicktoons film revival ==

I've noticed that there might be some issues with past tense and future tense. Here's the current wording to the section so far:

{{cquote|Deadline Hollywood reported in early 2016 that Ren and Stimpy is scheduled to appear in an upcoming Nicktoons film. Later that year, Variety reported that Nickelodeon is in negotiations with Kricfalusi about a revival of the characters. In an April 2016 panel discussion, Bob Camp and Bill Wray announced that Kricfalusi is developing a Ren & Stimpy short that would screen along with the third SpongeBob SquarePants film. Camp and Wray stated that they were "not invited to that party" and wouldn't be working on it. However, Kricfalusi denied on Twitter that he's making such a cartoon. On March 20, 2017, Camp later confirmed that Paramount Pictures rejected a pitch for a Ren & Stimpy feature film and that it will not be rebooting the characters, primarily because of the negative reception of Adult Party Cartoon.}}

Since it already happened, I'm thinking that it would be reworded to something like this.

{{cquote|In early 2016, it was announced that Kricfalusi was in negotiations to revive Ren & Stimpy for a Nicktoons film. In an April 2016 panel discussion, Bob Camp and Bill Wray announced that Kricfalusi would be developing a short featuring the characters that would screen along with the third ''SpongeBob SquarePants'' film, but they said that they were "not invited to that party" and would not be working on it. However, Kricfalusi denied reports that he's making such a cartoon. Later, on March 20, 2017, Camp later confirmed that Paramount Pictures rejected a pitch for a Ren & Stimpy feature film and also that it would not be rebooting the characters, primarily because of the negative reception of ''Adult Party Cartoon''.}}

I think it will solve some problems here, but we may need some input on what to do here. Thoughts? [[User:Sjones23|Lord Sjones23]] ([[User talk:Sjones23|talk]] - [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|contributions]]) 16:20, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
:I really hate the "it was announced", "on [date]", "it was said", all that passive voice is bad style, and MOS is pretty strongly worded against it. [[WP:SAY]]. Deadline Hollywood reported something in 2016, it doesn't mean it's the absolute truth. Everything in the section as it is currently worded is correct, according to the sources. Making it all a mess of "announced", "revealed", "confirmed" is detrimental to the style and the ''accuracy'' of the information. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 13:26, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
:: I understand where your concerns are coming from. I have no argument with [[WP:SAY]] (we could also use "stated", "described", "wrote", "commented", and "according to" in addition to "said"). After all, we are striving to create, expand, and improve all articles to the highest degree possible. Still, I had some concerns about [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Contractions|contractions]] in that section (like "doesn't" should be "does not"), so that's been fixed up. Also, I'm a little concerned about the "Bob Camp and Bill Wray, who worked on the original show..." wording, since those names might be a little redundant when they are first mentioned in the article (i.e. full name should be mentioned once or twice). [[User:Sjones23|Lord Sjones23]] ([[User talk:Sjones23|talk]] - [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|contributions]]) 01:36, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
:::I agree. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 14:12, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

== Revert of multiple edits ==

The article was {{diff|diff=833526422|oldid=833404182|label=reverted to the 09:53, 2018 March 31 version}}, reverting several edits with the edit summary "{{tq|i=y|Just because it's in a reliable source doesn't mean taking someone else's word as fact when it's contradicted by other sources.}}" This edit is invalid for the following reasons:
# {{diff|diff=833404424|oldid=833404182|label=The information is sourced and there are no other sources in the article that contradict it.}} I have {{diff|diff=833543024|oldid=833541853|label=edited the wording to reflect the source almost verbatim}} so the viewpoint is clearly and accurately attributed to Bob Camp. ([[WP:BIASED]])
# There are two intermediate fixes ({{diff|diff=next|oldid=833515477|label=1}}, {{diff|diff=next|oldid=833515649|label=2}}) that remove uncited information that should not be restored without an inline reference to a reliable source. ([[WP:BURDEN]])
# There are two punctuation and readability fixes ({{diff|diff=prev|oldid=833518505|label=1}}, {{diff|diff=next|oldid=833518505|label=2}}) that should probably be kept, and in any case shouldn't be reverted for the wrong reason.
{{u|TheRealBoognish}}, points (2) and (3) should be obvious and the edits should not be reverted. Point (1) you're going to have to begrudgingly accept. Even if you don't trust Bob Camp, he is not making an outlandish statement here. He is an animator, he was involved in the creation and production of ''Ren & Stimpy'', there's nothing unreasonable about what he says—that he pitched a ''Ren & Stimpy'' movie to Paramount and they rejected it because of ''Adult Party Cartoon''. There's no reason to believe that Trent Parsley or ScreenGeek reported his words inaccurately. If you have a [[WP:ONUS|different reason to remove the material]], please specify it. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 06:35, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
*There is no evidence supporting Camp's claims. [[User:TheRealBoognish|TheRealBoognish]] ([[User talk:TheRealBoognish|talk]]) 09:17, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
::That may be so, but that is not a condition necessary for citing a [[WP:RS|reliable source]], whether it's Bob Camp, Trent Parsley, or ScreenGeek. If you are questioning the reliable-source-ness of this combination, you need an indication that it is [[WP:QUESTIONABLE]] or the like. As I explained above, nothing in the statement Camp makes is outlandish and there's no immediate reason to doubt Trent Parsely or ScreenGeek, so unless you can show that this particular source is unreliable, the reason for your objection is invalid. You can raise other objections, for example POV objections, but they too might be invalid because other sources have reported rumors of a movie, which corroborates Camp's claim to some degree, indirectly. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 10:15, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
:::This is correct. The source directly makes this statement. As long as the proper context is given (''According to Bob Camp'') then its a perfectly acceptable statement to have in the article. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 12:52, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

== Production companies ==

{{ping|Sjones23}} I suspect Idrinkapplejuicies456 was trying to fixed their mistake, but they improperly implemented their fix in the template, since the template does not have an "animation production" or "animation services" variable. I believe they mistakenly assumed "company" refers to all companies working on the show, not just the production companies. At any rate, the template documentation states: {{tq|i=y|Note: sub-contractors hired to perform production work, e.g. animation houses, special effects studios, post-production facilities etc. should not be included here, as this may create confusion about the nation(s) of origin. Instead, use sourced prose in the article's Production section to explain these details.}} [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 09:19, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

== Banned from reruns indefinitely? ==

After those two women came forward against the original creator, I wonder if Nickelodeon has banned reruns of the show indefinitely?[[Special:Contributions/2600:6C50:7006:400:1541:C156:4D34:A295|2600:6C50:7006:400:1541:C156:4D34:A295]] ([[User talk:2600:6C50:7006:400:1541:C156:4D34:A295|talk]]) 18:02, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
:No, as it's still being rerun, and in any case adding such a statement to the article would require a source. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 13:13, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

== Merger proposal ==
{{Discussion top|reason=No objections, discussion open for over 30 days and no replies for two weeks. '''Unanimous consensus for merger'''. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 08:26, 5 December 2018 (UTC)}}
It doesn't seem like any of the ''Ren & Stimpy'' video game articles really stand up on their own; the most I can find for any of them as far as third-party sources go is one or two reviews each, and it's doubtful there's any substantial development info around. The overhaul I'd just given the video game section on the main article sums up each entry about as thoroughly as they need to be within the bigger article's context, so I'd think redirecting the video game titles to that section would be in order. [[User:Cat&#39;s Tuxedo|Cat&#39;s Tuxedo]] ([[User talk:Cat&#39;s Tuxedo|talk]]) 02:10, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
:In principle, each videogame ''should'' have enough reliable sources to merit an article, but right now they're better off merged into one article. '''Support''' merge either into the main article or, preferably, ''Ren & Stimpy videogames''. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 18:01, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
::How about ''[[List of Ren & Stimpy video games]]''? [[User:Harizotoh9|Harizotoh9]] ([[User talk:Harizotoh9|talk]]) 04:31, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
:::That's fine. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 20:51, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
* I'd start with a section in the franchise article. Then build out [[Wikipedia:Summary style|summary style]]. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 18:07, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
{{discussion bottom}}

== Created by ==


== "[[:Chris Mitchell (writer)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
People are trying to distance ''Ren & Stimpy'' from John K, and one way is to cite Bob Camp as a co-creator. There's ''one'' reference that names all Spumco co-founders as creators, so I guess we'll go with that, despite all other references attributing the creation to John K alone. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 06:32, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Chris_Mitchell_(writer)&redirect=no Chris Mitchell (writer)]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 25#Chris Mitchell (writer)}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Pichpich|Pichpich]] ([[User talk:Pichpich|talk]]) 17:42, 25 May 2023 (UTC)


== Dog Pound Hop not by Reverend Horton Heat ==
== TV show's nationality ==


[https://consequence.net/2022/02/best-cartoon-theme-songs/ The source for the information] that DPH was played by RHH now states "''Note: The original list incorrectly referred to Reverend Horton Heat as the creator of the Ren & Stimpy theme song. That entry has been removed from the list, and Consequence regrets the error.''"
See [[MOS:TVLEAD|Manual of Style]] for a television show's nationality. [[User talk:BrightR|Bright☀]] 05:55, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
They now list only 21 songs instead of 22.
I restored the old entry, but i don't know about "Die Screaming Leiderhôsens" either.--[[User:Rupert Pupkin|Rupert Pupkin]] ([[User talk:Rupert Pupkin|talk]]) 19:42, 8 January 2024 (UTC)


== Creators ==
== A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion ==
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* [[commons:File:The Ren and Stimpy Show Title Card.jpg|The Ren and Stimpy Show Title Card.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: speedy | 2019-08-07T16:07:27.439648 | The Ren and Stimpy Show Title Card.jpg -->
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 16:07, 7 August 2019 (UTC)


While the show's credits (which is the source material) lists John Kricfalusi as its sole creator, Bob Camp has been repeatedly added and removed from the infobox's creator parameter over the past few months. Given that, I have a question: does anyone know if there are [[WP:PSTS|secondary sources]] listing Camp as a co-creator? [[User:Sjones23|Lord Sjones23]] ([[User talk:Sjones23|talk]] - [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|contributions]]) 00:50, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
== A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion ==
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* [[commons:File:Ren & Stimpy Logo (1).png|Ren & Stimpy Logo (1).png]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: speedy | 2019-08-11T10:21:55.897837 | Ren & Stimpy Logo (1).png -->
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 10:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)


:There's a book titled ''Collected Interviews: Voices from Twentieth-century Cinema'', in which Kricfalusi is interviewed and refers to Camp, and two others, as the creators of the show. In one answer, he refers to the show as a combined vision and notes Bob Camp as the head writer with whom he has created most of the stories. At no point does Kricfalusi take full credit for creation of the show. In fact, he seems adamant in stating it was created by the team. Both references can be seen [https://books.google.com/books?id=JWywnr1dNucC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=%22The+series+is+completely+individual+and+original.+You+inject+your+personal+energy+in+every+frame%22&source=bl&ots=Uw3W17YsiL&sig=ACfU3U2cUkuzHg9IVgL412KWth9Ot_VYgg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiT78qW4I6HAxUqrokEHU6qATgQ6AF6BAgLEAM#v=snippet&q=bob%20camp&f=false here]. [[User:NJZombie|NJZombie]] ([[User talk:NJZombie|talk]]) 01:39, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
== Missing Citations ==
::Hmm. For now, I've reinstated Camp to the creator parameter and added him as a showrunner. [[User:Sjones23|Lord Sjones23]] ([[User talk:Sjones23|talk]] - [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|contributions]]) 01:42, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
Did quite a bit of digging for the flagged missing citations in this article. The citations deal with old distribution deals (VHS) or details of cut scenes or episodes from later releases. There is significant discussion of the missing content in forums, blogs and like, so the data appears to be accurate, but I could locate no official sources that would be acceptable for wiki citation. [[User:Technutt|Technutt]] ([[User talk:Technutt|talk]]) 15:26, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
:::Camp was also one of the developers of the series but it doesn't mean he created it like he wants to claim. He is more in line as a showrunner, so I side with Sjones23 on this. [[User:BaldiBasicsFan|BaldiBasicsFan]] ([[User talk:BaldiBasicsFan|talk]]) 03:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
:"Created by" is a credit with specific meaning on a TV show; just because somewhat has creative input when the show was developed doesn't automatically make them a co-creator, nor does someone else calling them a creator. (''[[Lost (2004 TV series)|Lost]]'' is a good example of how this can play out; Lloyd Braun provided the original pitch, while Jeffrey Lieber's contributions on a early version were pretty much entirely cut out, but Lieber gets a creator credit and Braun doesn't, because "created by" has a very specific meaning in Hollywood.) Given that infoboxes tend to stick to official credits, I would stick to only including Kricfalusi in the infobox; Camp's contributions can be discussed in the article. [[User:RunningTiger123|RunningTiger123]] ([[User talk:RunningTiger123|talk]]) 03:38, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
:Also, from reading page 88 in the linked source, it sounds like Camp was added after the show entered production, so the term "creator" is used to mean something like "someone with creative control" instead of "someone who developed the show". (Extending the ''Lost'' example, this sounds like Carlton Cuse's role – a later addition to guide the show's creative vision.) [[User:RunningTiger123|RunningTiger123]] ([[User talk:RunningTiger123|talk]]) 03:41, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
::He was not added after production began. He co-founded Spumco in 1989, two years before Ren & Stimpy began. In this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvgSSKhr1Dc&t video], Camp explains that he was there from the start, as does [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc9ZuD-tW1Q this one]. [[User:NJZombie|NJZombie]] ([[User talk:NJZombie|talk]]) 04:11, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
:Even if we have interviews with John K that credits Camp with co-creation, there's a reason we go by show credits, to avoid any type of edit warring along these lines. That said, a workable solution is to add a footnote from the infobox to say that while Camp is not directly credited on the show credits, he is acknowledged this way in several works, and of course, expand that point in the development section. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 04:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 14:04, 6 October 2024

"Jim Gomez" listed at Redirects for discussion

[edit]

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Jim Gomez. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 October 23#Jim Gomez until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed, Rosguill talk 20:11, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Chris Mitchell (writer)" listed at Redirects for discussion

[edit]

The redirect Chris Mitchell (writer) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 25 § Chris Mitchell (writer) until a consensus is reached. Pichpich (talk) 17:42, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dog Pound Hop not by Reverend Horton Heat

[edit]

The source for the information that DPH was played by RHH now states "Note: The original list incorrectly referred to Reverend Horton Heat as the creator of the Ren & Stimpy theme song. That entry has been removed from the list, and Consequence regrets the error." They now list only 21 songs instead of 22. I restored the old entry, but i don't know about "Die Screaming Leiderhôsens" either.--Rupert Pupkin (talk) 19:42, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Creators

[edit]

While the show's credits (which is the source material) lists John Kricfalusi as its sole creator, Bob Camp has been repeatedly added and removed from the infobox's creator parameter over the past few months. Given that, I have a question: does anyone know if there are secondary sources listing Camp as a co-creator? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:50, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's a book titled Collected Interviews: Voices from Twentieth-century Cinema, in which Kricfalusi is interviewed and refers to Camp, and two others, as the creators of the show. In one answer, he refers to the show as a combined vision and notes Bob Camp as the head writer with whom he has created most of the stories. At no point does Kricfalusi take full credit for creation of the show. In fact, he seems adamant in stating it was created by the team. Both references can be seen here. NJZombie (talk) 01:39, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. For now, I've reinstated Camp to the creator parameter and added him as a showrunner. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:42, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Camp was also one of the developers of the series but it doesn't mean he created it like he wants to claim. He is more in line as a showrunner, so I side with Sjones23 on this. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 03:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Created by" is a credit with specific meaning on a TV show; just because somewhat has creative input when the show was developed doesn't automatically make them a co-creator, nor does someone else calling them a creator. (Lost is a good example of how this can play out; Lloyd Braun provided the original pitch, while Jeffrey Lieber's contributions on a early version were pretty much entirely cut out, but Lieber gets a creator credit and Braun doesn't, because "created by" has a very specific meaning in Hollywood.) Given that infoboxes tend to stick to official credits, I would stick to only including Kricfalusi in the infobox; Camp's contributions can be discussed in the article. RunningTiger123 (talk) 03:38, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, from reading page 88 in the linked source, it sounds like Camp was added after the show entered production, so the term "creator" is used to mean something like "someone with creative control" instead of "someone who developed the show". (Extending the Lost example, this sounds like Carlton Cuse's role – a later addition to guide the show's creative vision.) RunningTiger123 (talk) 03:41, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He was not added after production began. He co-founded Spumco in 1989, two years before Ren & Stimpy began. In this video, Camp explains that he was there from the start, as does this one. NJZombie (talk) 04:11, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even if we have interviews with John K that credits Camp with co-creation, there's a reason we go by show credits, to avoid any type of edit warring along these lines. That said, a workable solution is to add a footnote from the infobox to say that while Camp is not directly credited on the show credits, he is acknowledged this way in several works, and of course, expand that point in the development section. --Masem (t) 04:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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