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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/University_of_Arizona/POL_150C2-III_(Spring_2017) | assignments = [[User:Npsanchez|Npsanchez]], [[User:Shainamarco|Shainamarco]], [[User:Anapandrade|Anapandrade]], [[User:Fparra247|Fparra247]], [[User:Hannaheaton|Hannaheaton]] | reviewers = [[User:Agarcia101|Agarcia101]], [[User:Kmbatt|Kmbatt]], [[User:NPSHamilton|NPSHamilton]], [[User:Partguypartshark|Partguypartshark]], [[User:Colleen1596|Colleen1596]], [[User:Tysauer|Tysauer]], [[User:Sarias19|Sarias19]] }}


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==Move==
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| archive = Talk:War profiteering/Archive %(counter)d
I motion to move this to the Wiktionary, as it is a definition, not an encyclopedia entry. [[User:Lypheklub|Lypheklub]] 06:48, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)
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:I see this as a stub; one can envision a long article on the the phenomenon of war profiteering, [[User:Loren Rosen|Loren Rosen]] 06:53, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)
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i understand that the term is a loaded one, but i don't think that should prevent us from listing actual war profiteers. i think we can be earnest, truthful and literal. carlyle group, halliburton, bae, all defense contractors that actively push for war.
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== Major changes, tightened scope of accusation ==
== Major changes, tightened scope of accusation ==
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What I found on this page seemed to take the ultra-literal tack that anyone who profits from a war is a war profiteer. I highly doubt that this is the common usage. It's so broad as to lose its meaning. Many people unknowingly own a piece of an arms company through mutual funds, etc., and soldiers buy sunglasses, flashlights, clothes, etc. from companies that have no idea what's happening. Even [[Silly String]] has a military use.
What I found on this page seemed to take the ultra-literal tack that anyone who profits from a war is a war profiteer. I highly doubt that this is the common usage. It's so broad as to lose its meaning. Many people unknowingly own a piece of an arms company through mutual funds, etc., and soldiers buy sunglasses, flashlights, clothes, etc. from companies that have no idea what's happening. Even [[Silly String]] has a military use.


== Reversion ==
== Dubious ==

I reverted the recent anon changes since they were very POV, and read in essay style. [[User:Morven|&mdash;Morven]] 06:04, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

==Re: Reversion==

War profiteer is by nature a pejorative term. Please by all means help me improve my work-edit the heck out of it, but leave in the facts.

:I've reverted again to a version that was NPOV. There is some good stuff removed in the process I admit, but most of what has gone is blatantly POV. I'll try to find some time to reinsert the good stuff, but meantime some serious study of [[Wikipedia:neutral point of view]] is recommended.

:Creating a userid is also recommended, particularly if you're going to work on controversial pages. It costs nothing, logging in remains optional, it increases your privacy by hiding your IP, and it makes communication easier. [[User:Andrewa|Andrewa]] 17:38, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

:In 1342 b.c. moses started war profitering with the egyptians. He barted with king solomon that his horse can reach the capital faster then his horse in Kassouth County. The wager was 16 gypsies and 11 arrowheads of all shapes and colors. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/205.221.90.96|205.221.90.96]] ([[User talk:205.221.90.96|talk]]) 22:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

== Extending Profiteering all the way down? ==

I want to know if employees of these companies should be called War Profiteers also; It's sort of a gray area in my mind and a good discussion may clear it up. I'm talking about the individual guys that perform regular jobs such as truck driving, cleaning, food service, administration, etc. etc. for these companies such as KBR, Bechtel, Sandi Group, First Kuwaiti, and even smaller ones such as IAP, GBG, & Fluor Daniels. To my knowledge, the amount of work which the US Government has contracted out in Iraq is unprecedented in American history, and needs a closer look.
Pros: They are making grossly inflated salries, anywhere from $5,000 to $15,000 per month, to perform menial work. They are supporting the US military during wartime in a warzone, which is why they get paid high salaries; danger pay.
Cons: $5,000 to $15,000 per month is hardly getting rich... If they are working for a fiscal year they move up into the lower middle class bracket. The work they do hardly falls into the particulars of the shady business that typically defines war profiteering.
What category do they fall into?

:I don't think Wikipedia should be in the business of calling particular groups War Profiteers. If such popular sentiment arises elsewhere, then by all means cite it, but advocating a position which is based upon intent of the perpetrator seems far from a neutral pov. Also, while the level of contracting used by the US in this war is certainly interesting, I don't think it fits into this article which should be pretty narrow in scope. Overall I think the article is pretty good how it is written, but it's hard to strike a balance between citing every time a person has ever been called a proiteer and cherry picking a handful of representative accusations which represent some views more than others. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/128.120.27.196|128.120.27.196]] ([[User talk:128.120.27.196|talk]]) 20:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

== Possible Clarification ==

Can a whole society be built on a war effort so that everyone becomes a war profiteer? I am thinking of Kuwait. The whole economy has prospered because of the Iraq war making it hard to distinguish between who is profiteering and who is not.

Another thing that needs clarification is the notion of profit. Is this a monetary based term or is prestige also a form of profit? Am I a war profiteer if I gain prestige from the war through my work? It would be good to leave open the question, for example, of whether journalists can sometimes find themselves profiteering from a war.
:Journalists can and do profit from war. because cause it increases viewership/readership. I would stick to a more material definition, but prestige can translate into money. however, lets not get into original research. [[Special:Contributions/67.176.160.47|67.176.160.47]] ([[User talk:67.176.160.47|talk]]) 04:11, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

[[User:Samihermez|Samihermez]] 16:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

== modern use ==
profiteering is different from profiting, however, some argue that anyone who profits from war is profiteering, that is gaining money unethically. Of course it is never looked at whether or not profit margins change do to war. That is, ford made money making tanks, would they have made more money making cars? anyway, in modern usage, when it is applied to haliburton, the accusation is in part that they played a role in causing the war. anyway profiteering war or otherwise is not a clear term. [[Special:Contributions/67.176.160.47|67.176.160.47]] ([[User talk:67.176.160.47|talk]]) 04:11, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

== imf world bank ==

can someone please mention, and expand on the role of the world bank and imf and how they benefit from war. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/78.144.47.179|78.144.47.179]] ([[User talk:78.144.47.179|talk]]) 17:55, 19 July 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Anti Profiteering Measures Section ==

I just wanted to explain why I deleted the introductory sentence of this section, which claimed that "unreasonable" profits during wartime is widely considered unethical and deeply unpopular. First of all the "unreasonable" fails to accurately incorporate the definition at the top of the article, and feels very POV. Secondly, it seems to me that this unsourced claim is mostly untrue. My sense is that people in the west are mostly unaware of/ignoring the enormous profits that big corporations make from war. The corporations making the most profit from war are either big name corporations which are widely thought of quite neutrally, like Boeing and General Dynamics, or else they are corporations most people have never heard of, like L3 communications and United Technologies. [[User:Benjaminady|Benjaminady]] ([[User talk:Benjaminady|talk]]) 13:50, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[War profiteering]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=686270324 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070630224414/http://www.latimes.com:80/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-scahill25jan25,0,4485578.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions to http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-scahill25jan25,0,4485578.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.

{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}

Cheers. —[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 03:20, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello Wikipedians,
I would like to add a section on the Military-Industrial complex. This phrase was coined by President Dwight Eisenhower in his 1961 Farewell Address. This alliance between military leaders and arms producing manufacturers have a shared interest in going to war and maintaining an aggressive foreign policy. Eisenhower warned the American people to be vigilant of this complex.

Bibliography:

http://www.militaryindustrialcomplex.com/what-is-the-military-industrial-complex.asp

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/01/big-money-behind-war-military-industrial-complex-20141473026736533.html

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/eisenhower-warns-of-military-industrial-complex

http://www.panarchy.org/statism/military.complex.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-tyranny-of-defense-inc/308342/

https://books.google.com/books/about/Unwarranted_Influence.html?id=rxZ8BPomTlMC

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2011/01/beware_the_militaryindustrial_complex.html

http://classroom.synonym.com/lockheed-martin-war-iraq-10254.html
[[User:Shainamarco|Shainamarco]] ([[User talk:Shainamarco|talk]]) 22:02, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

== Extra Sources ==

Found a few more references that could help in the expansion of this article, including:

* A report from the House of Representatives over the proposal of a "War Profiteering Prevention Act 2007" <ref>{{cite web|title=House Report 110-353|url=https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CRPT-110hrpt353/html/CRPT-110hrpt353.htm|publisher=United States Government Publishing Office|accessdate=September 27, 2007}}</ref>

* Two articles discussing the relationship between oil companies and war profiteering. <ref>{{cite journal|last1=Dolack|first1=Pete|title=War profiteering is big business|journal=Synthesis/Regeneration|date=2007|volume=42 (Winter 2007)|page=p. 34|url=http://www.greens.org/s-r/38/38-01.html}}</ref><ref>{{cite journal|last1=Barbaro|first1=Frank|title=War Profiteering|journal=Viewpoint|date=April 27, 2006|issue=OC Metro}}</ref>

* Another article on gunmakers and war profiteering <ref>{{cite news|title=Gunmakers' War Profiteering on the Home Front|url=http://www.nytimes.com.ezproxy1.library.arizona.edu/2015/12/11/opinion/gunmakers-war-profiteering-on-the-home-front.html?partner=bloomberg|accessdate=15 February 2017|agency=New York Times (Online)|publisher=New York Times|date=December 11, 2015}}</ref>


Feel like most of these will be helpful. [[User:Anapandrade|Anapandrade]] ([[User talk:Anapandrade|talk]])



I too found a few more sources on the subject.

*The first discusses the ways in which black market operators, businesspeople, and profiteers benefit from war.
<ref>Norstrom, C. (2004). ''Shadows of War: Violence, Power, and International Profiteering in the Twenty-First Century.'' Berkley: University of California Press.
http://ezproxy.library.arizona.edu/login?url=http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=nlebk&AN=108517&site=ehost-live&ebv=EB&ppid=pp_A</ref>

*I believe this source will help to maintain a neutral tone in discussing the subject matter. It discusses the practicality of war profiteering, mostly through an economic political scope.
<ref>Meyer, E. (1917). ''War Profiteering: Some Practical Aspects of its Control''. Washington, DC.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/download/pdf?id=mdp.39015028305657;orient=0;size=100;seq=1;attachment=0</ref>

*This source compares "centralized warfare of the Cold War era" to "the privatization of force". It does not focus on war profiteering in the United States, and could therefore provide insight on the subject objectively, and from a technical perspective.
<ref>Krahmann, E. (2010). ''States, Citizens and the Privatization of Security.'' Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. Retrieved from http://www.ebrary.com.ezproxy1.library.arizona.edu.
http://ebookcentral.proquest.com.ezproxy1.library.arizona.edu/lib/UAZ/detail.action?docID=674660</ref>[[User:Hannaheaton|Hannaheaton]] ([[User talk:Hannaheaton|talk]]) 05:42, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

== Peer Review ==

Hello, I like what you have. Notwithstanding, hopefully you could elaborate on how the two greatest wars since the Eisenhower administration, Vietnam and Iraq --and, by the metric, also the two greatest American fiascos in recent times-- contributed to the military-industrial complex's proliferation. I think this will probably give you a good amount of things to add to your article. Also, as far as business interest go, you can mention how there are some conspiracy theories that say President Johnson's involvement and escalation of the Vietnam War was due to the fact that his wife, Lady Bird Johnson, was born in one of the most prominent families that dealt in the military-industrial complex. All in all, my point is this: if you have a boat, you will want a body of water where to play with it. The same is said about the military-industrial complex and wars. [[User:Agarcia101|Agarcia101]] ([[User talk:Agarcia101|talk]]) 02:42, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

=Futher Peer Review ==

I think there is a lot to be said here about companies such as Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, or many of the companies actually profiting off of combat manufacturing. This would be an interesting section to read about as a reader, seeing how there has been immense backlash against these companies in the form of rallies or movements against the profiteering of war. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Tysauer|Tysauer]] ([[User talk:Tysauer#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tysauer|contribs]]) 08:53, 23 February 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Further citations ==


The claim that "This decision was made as a direct result of the influence of Lockheed Martin" is an extremely bold assertion, and requires some explanation. The article linked is an editorial piece that even sarcastically suggests that the decisions were "surely a coincidence," not citing any conclusive evidence or investigatory report that they weren't. Selling legislation is a high crime, one which has marked the end of political careers for people such as Maryland Delegate Cheryl Glenn; the current language states definitively that Thornberry is guilty of this crime. [[User:Bluefoxicy|John Moser]] ([[User talk:Bluefoxicy|talk]]) 23:23, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Hello all there are alot of claims in this article that do not have sources connected with them so I will be finding sources from peer reviewed articles or editing sections that I cannot find claims for. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Npsanchez|Npsanchez]] ([[User talk:Npsanchez#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Npsanchez|contribs]]) 16:54, 28 February 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Latest revision as of 12:08, 8 October 2024

Major changes, tightened scope of accusation

[edit]

What I found on this page seemed to take the ultra-literal tack that anyone who profits from a war is a war profiteer. I highly doubt that this is the common usage. It's so broad as to lose its meaning. Many people unknowingly own a piece of an arms company through mutual funds, etc., and soldiers buy sunglasses, flashlights, clothes, etc. from companies that have no idea what's happening. Even Silly String has a military use.

Dubious

[edit]

The claim that "This decision was made as a direct result of the influence of Lockheed Martin" is an extremely bold assertion, and requires some explanation. The article linked is an editorial piece that even sarcastically suggests that the decisions were "surely a coincidence," not citing any conclusive evidence or investigatory report that they weren't. Selling legislation is a high crime, one which has marked the end of political careers for people such as Maryland Delegate Cheryl Glenn; the current language states definitively that Thornberry is guilty of this crime. John Moser (talk) 23:23, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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