Talk:Field hockey: Difference between revisions
→"Field Hockey" page history: added removed material back in again... |
ZimZalaBim (talk | contribs) →Game of play: reply |
||
(321 intermediate revisions by more than 100 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{talkheader}} |
|||
Regarding the introduction, I'm not sure whether field hockey is that much more common than ice hockey in Korea. I'm Korean, and I've often wondered myself which sport Koreans think of when they hear the word "hockey". It might even be that more people think of ice hockey when they hear the word, in spite of the fact that our field hockey teams are infinitely better than our ice hockey teams. Or it may just be because my high school was an ice-hockey-playing school. For now I'll add Korea alongside Germany there... --[[User:Iceager|Iceager]] 10:32, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC) |
|||
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|vital=yes|1= |
|||
{{WikiProject Sports}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Olympics|importance=High}} |
|||
}} |
|||
{{Annual readership}} |
|||
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|||
|archiveheader = {{Automatic archive navigator}} |
|||
|maxarchivesize = 100K |
|||
|counter = 1 |
|||
|minthreadsleft = 5 |
|||
|algo = old(90d) |
|||
|archive = Talk:Field hockey/Archive %(counter)d |
|||
}} |
|||
== Not "in most countries" == |
|||
:I think trying to identify the finer points of language usage in Korean, Hindi, Urdu, Dutch, German, Afrikaans, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, and so on is kind of getting irrelevant to the article, so I restated the original point. The Korean usage would be very relevant to the Korean-language Wikipedia, of course. |
|||
Someone keeps reverting the terminology in the lead paragraph to read "In most countries, it is known simply as hockey'". This is incorrect; field hockey is generally known as "hockey" only in the UK and a few of its former colonies. Elsewhere, it needs to be described as "field hockey" (or a local language equivalent) in order to be disambiguated from other forms of hockey, particularly ice hockey, which is significantly more popular in many parts of the world (North America, Continental Europe, Russia, etc.). If someone wants to make the claim that field hockey is is known as simply hockey "in '''most''' countries," some evidence needs to be provided. For now, I'm changing "'''most''' countries" back to "'''some''' countries". --[[User:WorldWide Update|WorldWide Update]] ([[User talk:WorldWide Update|talk]]) 09:55, 12 August 2012 (UTC) |
|||
:You're grossly missreprsenting the number of countries included in your phrasing "the UK and a few of its former colonies" - in fact Ice hockey is predominant in ONLY two if its fomer colonies - US and Canada. The rest of the entire English speaking world uses "hockey" to mean "field hockey". We are not concerned about non-English usage at all, so "continental Europe, Russia, etc" do not count. [[User:Dodger67|Roger]] ([[User talk:Dodger67|talk]]) 11:28, 12 August 2012 (UTC) |
|||
:By the way, Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi! :)--[[User:Robert Merkel|Robert Merkel]] 10:48, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC) |
|||
::I agree with WorldWide Update. Hockey = Ice Hockey in more parts of the world. SO the wording should change to some. [[User:Intoronto1125|<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">Intoronto1125</span>]][[User talk:Intoronto1125|<b style="color:red;">Talk</b>]][[Special:Contributions/Intoronto1125|<span style="color:orange;">Contributions</span>]] 16:31, 12 August 2012 (UTC) |
|||
:::Well of course you would, you're Canadian. [[User:Dodger67|Roger]] ([[User talk:Dodger67|talk]]) 16:50, 12 August 2012 (UTC) |
|||
::We may not be concerned about non-English usage, but we certainly need to be concerned about English-language usage everywhere, even in traditionally non-English-speaking countries. In today's globalized world, English is the world's most widespread second language, and is widely spoken and understood in places such as Continental Europe, so limiting one's examples to the British Commonwealth makes little sense. The English Wikipedia is meant for English-speaking users around the world, not merely those who live in countries where English is the predominant language.--[[User:WorldWide Update|WorldWide Update]] ([[User talk:WorldWide Update|talk]]) 21:33, 12 August 2012 (UTC) |
|||
:::Besides, this has little to do with the fact that the use of the phrase "most countries" (no mention of language) in the lead paragraph is misleading. --[[User:WorldWide Update|WorldWide Update]] ([[User talk:WorldWide Update|talk]]) 21:38, 12 August 2012 (UTC) |
|||
:Is there not some way to reword so that "some"/"many"/"most" can be completely avoided? In countries where field hockey is played and ice hockey is not, field hockey is called "hockey". In countries where ice hockey is played or watched to any significant extent, ice hockey is the sport called just "hockey". Right? So can we not just acknowledge that rather than have an endless pissing match about who has more of whatever? [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 21:58, 12 August 2012 (UTC) |
|||
::That sounds very reasonable to me. --[[User:WorldWide Update|WorldWide Update]] ([[User talk:WorldWide Update|talk]]) 22:43, 12 August 2012 (UTC) |
|||
It is not incorrect to say 'In most countries [field hockey],...is known simply as hockey'. As I write, I am watching the Hockey World Cup. It is field hockey. The the International Hockey Federation (FIH) has 126 members compared with the 77-member International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) as stated in the Wikipedia article about hockey. Both governing bodies therefore, agree on the terminology. I know North Americans are passionate about the fine sport of ice hockey and think it is a more manly game (though this would be an extremely dubious assertion to anyone who has played top level field hockey), but it is a variant. Calling ice hockey 'hockey' is the equivalent of calling water polo 'polo' or beach volleyball 'volleyball'. [[User:Iggyc61|Iggyc61]] ([[User talk:Iggyc61|talk]]) 00:54, 16 December 2018 (UTC) |
|||
---- |
|||
It makes me smile to read these constant demands that North American usage should prevail whatever the circumstances on Wikipedia. Often this is accompanied by assertions that their usage is the majority so should be used. Even if this assertion were true (normally dubious), then if we are to follow majority usage North Americans should follow majority world usage and stop calling the ground floor the first floor, stop calling football soccer, and use dates in the common format DYM (63%) or even YMD (32%) rather than MDY (3%)! [[User:DickyP|DickyP]] ([[User talk:DickyP|talk]]) 09:49, 19 December 2018 (UTC) |
|||
I removed the bit about it being the Indian and Pakistani national sport. By any sensible definition, [[cricket]] is the national sport of both countries, as anybody from a fellow cricket-playing nation who has spent 30 seconds talking to a citizen of either country would know. They are not that strong in international competition either since the widespread introduction of synthetic fields in the 1980's. --[[User:Robert Merkel|Robert Merkel]] 22:10, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
|||
Sorry guys, Canada owns hockey and their way goes. Hockey == ice hockey. That's just how it is. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:449:C200:CDBF:4498:B56A:62BE:2130|2601:449:C200:CDBF:4498:B56A:62BE:2130]] ([[User talk:2601:449:C200:CDBF:4498:B56A:62BE:2130#top|talk]]) 20:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== What about some kind of history == |
|||
:The IIHF is the highest governing body for Ice Hockey. I would like to know what those letters stand for if it’s not International Ice Hockey Federation. As opposed the the IHF which is the governing body for real hockey as played on Astro turf. [[Special:Contributions/81.99.178.220|81.99.178.220]] ([[User talk:81.99.178.220|talk]]) 12:09, 30 March 2022 (UTC) |
|||
I think it lacks a kind of history: Persian origin, big evolution of the rules (I remember, my grand-father used to throw the ball with the hand the put the ball back into to the pitch !), introduction and spreading of synthetic fields, ... I will start something that way, if everybody agrees. Any ideas welcomed. [[User:Lvr|Lvr]] 08:41, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
|||
:: The IIHF is much less important than the NHL. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 23:13, 7 December 2022 (UTC) |
|||
:The 'field hockey' problem is essentially the same as the 'soccer' problem. Worldwide 'hockey' and 'football' are the names of the two sports. Only in the the USA and Canada, where ice hockey and American football first developed a greater popularity (and commercialism), than the worldwide popularity of hockey and football, have the terms 'field hockey' and 'soccer' been necessary, to avoid confusion and possible commercial pressure, from those involved in those same named existing Can-Am sports. |
|||
:Definitely, though be careful about claiming an exclusively Persian origin; I believe there were a number of similar games in a number of cultures throughout history and dating to prehistoric times. I'd also suggest you add a seperate section on "history and rules evolution" to avoid cluttering up the description of how the game is played today with too many digressions on how the game was played in the past (except in a few rare cases where the information might be helpful). Anyway, great idea and I look forward to working with you on this. --[[User:Robert Merkel|Robert Merkel]] 13:42, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
|||
:If that title is to remain here, it needs to have a US/Canada attribution, such as Field Hockey (US/Canada) or Hockey (alt. field hockey US/Canada) unless any one can find any other countries, where ice hockey is primarily referred to as 'hockey'. [[Special:Contributions/87.112.193.3|87.112.193.3]] ([[User talk:87.112.193.3|talk]]) 22:58, 7 December 2022 (UTC) |
|||
::I will begin with some kind of [[Field Hockey/History|separated page]] to avoid confusion while working. Do not hesitate to check my spelling. However, don't expect to have something quickly. As mentionned on my page, I'm a slow paced wikipedian ! [[User:Lvr|Lvr]] 15:09, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
|||
::I have doubts as to the history of the term 'field hockey'. It may have been used in USA and Canada for longer than I've known it, but like 'soccer' it only seemed to gain prominence when the USA started getting more interested (and interest), in playing those games internationally and promoting them nationally, where it became necessary to differentiate between hockey and football and their own different sports of the same name. [[Special:Contributions/87.112.193.3|87.112.193.3]] ([[User talk:87.112.193.3|talk]]) 23:05, 7 December 2022 (UTC) |
|||
== No Wikipedia:WikiProject Field Hockey == |
|||
== "Field Hockey" page history == |
|||
There is [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey]], as I suppose I would expect, but field hockey doesn't have a WikiProject. Would anyone be interested in forming it? |
|||
They are a couple of stuff that were removed from this page: |
|||
* a diagram of the pitch, |
|||
* links to other wiki |
|||
Why has this been removed. Shouldn't it be convenient to bring it back. |
|||
See: [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/wiki.phtml?title=Field_hockey&oldid=5346935 this old page]. |
|||
[[User:Lvr|Lvr]] 16:43, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
|||
[[User:Sistorian|Sistorian]] ([[User talk:Sistorian|talk]]) 04:46, 31 July 2022 (UTC) |
|||
:I don't know why they were removed, they shouldn't have been, I've added them back in again, it isn't hard to add in again, and next time just be bold and do it yourself! |
|||
:{{ping|Sistorian}} I agree, it would be a great idea. [[User:Fma12|Fma12]] ([[User talk:Fma12|talk]]) 00:03, 5 September 2022 (UTC) |
|||
== State of this article == |
|||
I have been doing what I can to try and resolve some of the issues which mostly concern both lack and reliability of sources. I am going to be away for a lengthy period after today but, if anyone can help with the problems here, that will be appreciated. Good luck. |
|||
[[User:Sistorian|Sistorian]] ([[User talk:Sistorian|talk]]) 12:37, 5 August 2022 (UTC) |
|||
== Reliable sources and unclear and multiple issues == |
|||
The page has multiple issues and no reliable sources, you can help fixing the page later. Thank You. [[Special:Contributions/189.174.145.87|189.174.145.87]] ([[User talk:189.174.145.87|talk]]) 13:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
|||
== κερητίζειν == |
|||
Whatever κερητίζειν is, it isn't the name of the sport in Ancient Greek. It's the infinitive of a verb. It might mean "to play (some ancestral form of) field hockey", but it certainly isn't a noun referring directly to the game. —[[User:Mahagaja|Mahāgaja]] · [[User talk:Mahagaja|''talk'']] 09:15, 23 July 2024 (UTC) |
|||
== Game of play == |
|||
I play field hockey and there is is picture of a girl wearing a mask we do not wear mask and neither do the Olympian’s. [[Special:Contributions/70.108.34.33|70.108.34.33]] ([[User talk:70.108.34.33|talk]]) 01:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC) |
|||
:Well, despite your personal experience, it appears some players choose to. --[[User:ZimZalaBim|<span style="color:black">Zim</span><b style="color:darkgreen">Zala</b><span style="color:black">Bim</span>]] <sup style="color:black">[[User talk:ZimZalaBim|talk]]</sup> 01:31, 10 October 2024 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 01:31, 10 October 2024
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Field hockey article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 3 months |
This level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Not "in most countries"
[edit]Someone keeps reverting the terminology in the lead paragraph to read "In most countries, it is known simply as hockey'". This is incorrect; field hockey is generally known as "hockey" only in the UK and a few of its former colonies. Elsewhere, it needs to be described as "field hockey" (or a local language equivalent) in order to be disambiguated from other forms of hockey, particularly ice hockey, which is significantly more popular in many parts of the world (North America, Continental Europe, Russia, etc.). If someone wants to make the claim that field hockey is is known as simply hockey "in most countries," some evidence needs to be provided. For now, I'm changing "most countries" back to "some countries". --WorldWide Update (talk) 09:55, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- You're grossly missreprsenting the number of countries included in your phrasing "the UK and a few of its former colonies" - in fact Ice hockey is predominant in ONLY two if its fomer colonies - US and Canada. The rest of the entire English speaking world uses "hockey" to mean "field hockey". We are not concerned about non-English usage at all, so "continental Europe, Russia, etc" do not count. Roger (talk) 11:28, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with WorldWide Update. Hockey = Ice Hockey in more parts of the world. SO the wording should change to some. Intoronto1125TalkContributions 16:31, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- Well of course you would, you're Canadian. Roger (talk) 16:50, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- We may not be concerned about non-English usage, but we certainly need to be concerned about English-language usage everywhere, even in traditionally non-English-speaking countries. In today's globalized world, English is the world's most widespread second language, and is widely spoken and understood in places such as Continental Europe, so limiting one's examples to the British Commonwealth makes little sense. The English Wikipedia is meant for English-speaking users around the world, not merely those who live in countries where English is the predominant language.--WorldWide Update (talk) 21:33, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- Besides, this has little to do with the fact that the use of the phrase "most countries" (no mention of language) in the lead paragraph is misleading. --WorldWide Update (talk) 21:38, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with WorldWide Update. Hockey = Ice Hockey in more parts of the world. SO the wording should change to some. Intoronto1125TalkContributions 16:31, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- Is there not some way to reword so that "some"/"many"/"most" can be completely avoided? In countries where field hockey is played and ice hockey is not, field hockey is called "hockey". In countries where ice hockey is played or watched to any significant extent, ice hockey is the sport called just "hockey". Right? So can we not just acknowledge that rather than have an endless pissing match about who has more of whatever? Franamax (talk) 21:58, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- That sounds very reasonable to me. --WorldWide Update (talk) 22:43, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
It is not incorrect to say 'In most countries [field hockey],...is known simply as hockey'. As I write, I am watching the Hockey World Cup. It is field hockey. The the International Hockey Federation (FIH) has 126 members compared with the 77-member International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) as stated in the Wikipedia article about hockey. Both governing bodies therefore, agree on the terminology. I know North Americans are passionate about the fine sport of ice hockey and think it is a more manly game (though this would be an extremely dubious assertion to anyone who has played top level field hockey), but it is a variant. Calling ice hockey 'hockey' is the equivalent of calling water polo 'polo' or beach volleyball 'volleyball'. Iggyc61 (talk) 00:54, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
It makes me smile to read these constant demands that North American usage should prevail whatever the circumstances on Wikipedia. Often this is accompanied by assertions that their usage is the majority so should be used. Even if this assertion were true (normally dubious), then if we are to follow majority usage North Americans should follow majority world usage and stop calling the ground floor the first floor, stop calling football soccer, and use dates in the common format DYM (63%) or even YMD (32%) rather than MDY (3%)! DickyP (talk) 09:49, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
Sorry guys, Canada owns hockey and their way goes. Hockey == ice hockey. That's just how it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:449:C200:CDBF:4498:B56A:62BE:2130 (talk) 20:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
- The IIHF is the highest governing body for Ice Hockey. I would like to know what those letters stand for if it’s not International Ice Hockey Federation. As opposed the the IHF which is the governing body for real hockey as played on Astro turf. 81.99.178.220 (talk) 12:09, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
- The IIHF is much less important than the NHL. --Trovatore (talk) 23:13, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
- The 'field hockey' problem is essentially the same as the 'soccer' problem. Worldwide 'hockey' and 'football' are the names of the two sports. Only in the the USA and Canada, where ice hockey and American football first developed a greater popularity (and commercialism), than the worldwide popularity of hockey and football, have the terms 'field hockey' and 'soccer' been necessary, to avoid confusion and possible commercial pressure, from those involved in those same named existing Can-Am sports.
- If that title is to remain here, it needs to have a US/Canada attribution, such as Field Hockey (US/Canada) or Hockey (alt. field hockey US/Canada) unless any one can find any other countries, where ice hockey is primarily referred to as 'hockey'. 87.112.193.3 (talk) 22:58, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
- I have doubts as to the history of the term 'field hockey'. It may have been used in USA and Canada for longer than I've known it, but like 'soccer' it only seemed to gain prominence when the USA started getting more interested (and interest), in playing those games internationally and promoting them nationally, where it became necessary to differentiate between hockey and football and their own different sports of the same name. 87.112.193.3 (talk) 23:05, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
No Wikipedia:WikiProject Field Hockey
[edit]There is Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey, as I suppose I would expect, but field hockey doesn't have a WikiProject. Would anyone be interested in forming it?
Sistorian (talk) 04:46, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Sistorian: I agree, it would be a great idea. Fma12 (talk) 00:03, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
State of this article
[edit]I have been doing what I can to try and resolve some of the issues which mostly concern both lack and reliability of sources. I am going to be away for a lengthy period after today but, if anyone can help with the problems here, that will be appreciated. Good luck.
Sistorian (talk) 12:37, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
Reliable sources and unclear and multiple issues
[edit]The page has multiple issues and no reliable sources, you can help fixing the page later. Thank You. 189.174.145.87 (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
κερητίζειν
[edit]Whatever κερητίζειν is, it isn't the name of the sport in Ancient Greek. It's the infinitive of a verb. It might mean "to play (some ancestral form of) field hockey", but it certainly isn't a noun referring directly to the game. —Mahāgaja · talk 09:15, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Game of play
[edit]I play field hockey and there is is picture of a girl wearing a mask we do not wear mask and neither do the Olympian’s. 70.108.34.33 (talk) 01:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well, despite your personal experience, it appears some players choose to. --ZimZalaBim talk 01:31, 10 October 2024 (UTC)