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== The Wii U should be classed as a 7th gen console. ==
==Same Generation?==
What genius put, and keeps it there, The Switch in the same generation as the system it replaced? The Switch is not 8th but in the 9th generation. No donations this month until t his is corrected. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.117.182.52|68.117.182.52]] ([[User talk:68.117.182.52#top|talk]]) 18:06, 19 April 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Console generations are defined not by technical improvements but by which systems they were considered to compete against. The Switch, given current reliable sources, has competed primarily against the Xbox One and PS4, so makes it a 8th generation system. It may ''also'' be a 9th generation competing against the PS5 and Xbox Series X/S, but we don't have enough data for that yet. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 18:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
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::FYI, [[Resetera]] is up in arms over the generations classifications today, so expect some more less-than-constructive commentary like the above. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 18:16, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkN9p0E91MY The Genesis competed with the NES]. Just as well, the Dreamcast briefly competed with the PS1. If you analyze the Switch by the same standards, it's easy to see it as the first 9th gen system. --[[Special:Contributions/186.242.243.153|186.242.243.153]] ([[User talk:186.242.243.153|talk]]) 02:57, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
:::Statista lists the Switch with the PS5 and Xbox Series X/S <ref>https://www.statista.com/chart/26122/estimated-lifetime-sales-of-current-gen-consoles-by-market/</ref>. Perhaps it's time the system is migrated to the 9th generation.[[Special:Contributions/142.161.249.114|142.161.249.114]] ([[User talk:142.161.249.114|talk]]) 17:33, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
::::Statista is an unreliable source on Wikipedia. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 17:56, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
::The ideal determinant factor would be how many days the Nintendo Switch has competed against its 8th and 9th generation counterparts.
::As it stands, the number of days between the launch of the Nintendo Switch and the launch of the Xbox Series X (2 days before the PlayStation 5) is '''1,344 days'''.
::The number of days between the launch of the XSX to today is only '''888 days'''. Logically, it would have to be December 21, 2026 before it would be justified that the Switch is classified as 9th gen.
::[[Special:Contributions/216.58.1.46|216.58.1.46]] ([[User talk:216.58.1.46|talk]]) 05:38, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
:::The problem is that "generations" are not based on a timeline (though historically they have happened to be roughly every 5 years), but based on what are the systems typically grouped together in reliable sources as part of a common generation. This is why we know the Switch belongs to the 8th generation, but it also may be part of the ninth too, we're not sure yet. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 12:44, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
::::When are you going "to be sure"? It has been 3 years since the release of both PS5 and XBX|S. The Switch is still selling well, and it is very obvious now that it is competing against the PS5 and XBX|S. Even the NPD group is pretty much acknowledging that the Switch competes with the 9th gen systems. [[Special:Contributions/61.9.108.144|61.9.108.144]] ([[User talk:61.9.108.144|talk]]) 02:20, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Oculus systems ==

Shouldn't the Oculus systems (Quest 1 and 2, Go) be included, since they're technically handheld consoles with their own libraries and exclusive games? [[User:Endianer|Endianer]] ([[User talk:Endianer|talk]]) 18:32, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
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:We can add a section on other hardware, and include the VR devices (Ocilulus, PSVR, etc), as well as cloud gaming options. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 18:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
::Are they consoles ''per se''? There becomes some question as to where the line is drawn. [[Virtual reality headset]] never calls them consoles, for example. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 18:53, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
:::They can be both VR headsets and consoles. The fact they're centered on the VR gimmick doesn't make them any less consoles, just like the Wii and 3DS were consoles with their own gimmicks. The Quest and Go are definitely their own systems that can run on their own, unlike the Rift or PSVR. You don't need a PC to play games on them. IIRC, Oculus even marketed the Quest as a VR-centric console. [[User:Endianer|Endianer]] ([[User talk:Endianer|talk]]) 19:01, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
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:::Yeah, I don't see them being called consoles generally. I wouldn't mention them outside of a passing mention... [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 19:01, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
::::How do we even define consoles? Because as far as I can tell they fulfill all the criteria. [[User:Endianer|Endianer]] ([[User talk:Endianer|talk]]) 19:03, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::Do you have ''sources'' that call them ''consoles''? Because the term "VR console" is essentially unknown according to [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=VR+headset%2C+VR+console&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3 ngrams]. It's not a term that is used to describe them. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 19:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::Sure. A quick google search shows that a number of reliable sources refer to them as consoles, like [https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/oculus-quest-2-is-a-great-game-console-can-it-be-more/ CNET] or [https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/28/17914364/oculus-quest-vr-headset-game-console-cordless-standalone The Verge]. [[User:Endianer|Endianer]] ([[User talk:Endianer|talk]]) 19:11, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
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:::::::Fair enough. Carry on. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 19:14, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

== Cool it on the Switch Generation specifics right now ==

I think most of us are on the same page that the Switch is 8th-gen because it was released to compete with the Xbox One and PS5 and they spent the most time competing with each other so far, and I want to point out that this happened multiple times in previous generations, i.e. the Atari 2600 released in 77, the 5200 released in 83, and the next generation started in 83, the 5200 was targeted to compete with other 2nd gen consoles not the new 3rd gen ones. Generations span a long time with a lot of overlap, the last 4th gen console was discontinued after the first 6th gen consoles had started production. The PS2 lived from 2000-2013, living until the Wii was discontinued, that doesn't make it a 7th gen console, it didn't compete with the Wii, the PS3 did. Nobody marketed them against each other.


The Wii U released one year prior to the PS4 and Xbox One, but was evidently made to compete with Sony and Microsoft's prior HD consoles. Not only is there little in the way of meaningful processor, resolution and memory upgrades, the Wii U still retained characteristics not present in any 8th generation console, such as legacy support for 4:3 standard definition television displays. If you track the hardware and software support from Nintendo and third parties, you can observe that there's far more overlap with Xbox 360/PS3's defining titles, and almost no overlap from PS4 and Xbox One (e.g: Black Ops 2, Splinter Cell, Batman Arkham Origins, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Mass Effect 3, Assassin's Creed III and IV). Major franchises (e.g: Minecraft, Terraria, LEGO) stopped releasing new titles or software updates simultaneously on all three HD consoles, and the hardware was discontinued entirely in 2017 - aligning closely with the discontinuation of the Xbox 360/PS3 hardware in 2016. [[User:Memoryman3|Memoryman3]] ([[User talk:Memoryman3|talk]]) 23:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
If Nintendo releases an upgraded Switch and markets it as a competitor to the Xbox Series/PS5 then *that* can be gen 9. [[User:Wintergreen0354|Wintergreen0354]] ([[User talk:Wintergreen0354|talk]]) 22:46, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
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:We go by how sources define the market and competition of the consoles, not the tech specs directly. Wii U was commonly talked alongside the PS4 and Xbox One, so its an eighth gen console. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 23:05, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
::Could you cite any reliable sources that define the Wii U as competing with the PS4 and Xbox One? Many publishers and developers didn't seem to think so as evidenced by the system's lifecycle and support. [https://www.theverge.com/2013/1/31/3939092/john-riccitiello-on-wii-u-ps4-xbox-steam-box-game-violence EA even refused to categorise Wii U as a "Gen 4" console.] [[User:Memoryman3|Memoryman3]] ([[User talk:Memoryman3|talk]]) 00:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
:::There's multiple in the article already, not to mention, simple Google searches [https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/the-8-generations-of-video-game-consoles/zvcjkty find more pretty easily too]. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 01:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
:No, reliable sources don't commonly state this. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 23:15, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
::Then the Wii should stay in 6th or 7th gen, it's literally an overclocked GameCube. [[User:VitAlv13|VitAlv13]] ([[User talk:VitAlv13|talk]]) 12:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
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:::We go by what reliable sources say, per [[WP:V]], not personal observations on horsepower of the hardware. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 12:55, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
::::Then the Game & Watch Super Mario Bros. (2020) would be the successor to the Switch, because it released later? [[User:VitAlv13|VitAlv13]] ([[User talk:VitAlv13|talk]]) 13:41, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That's not how that works, particularly with a product line as complex as Nintendo's.<span id="Masem:1728567883305:TalkFTTCLNEighth_generation_of_video_game_consoles" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 13:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)</span>
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:::::I don't understand how you could have come to that conclusion from what I said. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 13:57, 10 October 2024 (UTC)


== The separation of Original and Slim ==
:The Switch is ''already'' marked as a competitor to the PS5 and the XBX|S. Every industry outlet and even NPD is already pitting it with Sony and Microsoft's current gen systems. [[Special:Contributions/61.9.108.144|61.9.108.144]] ([[User talk:61.9.108.144|talk]]) 02:34, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
:The argument over how things should be classified here strikes me as entirely [[WP:OR|original research]]. Console generations are arbitrary groupings defined by reliable sources, and sources don't seem to agree on where the Switch belongs, e.g.:
:* Wired ([https://www.wired.com/story/evolution-of-game-console-design-america/]): {{tq|Nintendo hasn't made its ninth-generation intentions known yet. A souped-up Switch is likely on the horizon, but will it still retain the form factor?}}
:* BBC ([https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/the-8-generations-of-video-game-consoles/zvcjkty]): {{tq|Is Switch eighth gen or ninth gen? We don't know. Let's say it's ninth because we're running out of space.}}
:That is unsurprising. If generations are defined simply by how companies market them, then the Switch and WiiU wouldn't be in the same generation, as the Switch was marketed as a direct successor and WiiU production was discontinued prior to the Switch's launch ([https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/31/14452066/wii-u-discontinued]). When the Switch launched it was sometimes referred to with terms like {{tq|Nintendo's next-generation game console}}, but there wasn't otherwise a "new generation" of consoles it was being contrasted against (e.g. [https://www.engadget.com/2016-10-20-nintendo-switch-first-thoughts.html]). Most early reporting on the "ninth generation" platforms focuses on the Xbox Series X and PS5, likely because of launch timing and marketing (e.g. [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/technology/xbox-series-x-playstation-5.html]). Reporting on console sales at the time the Switch launched compared its sales against the PS4 and Xbox One (e.g [https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/dont-read-too-much-into-the-switchs-successful-launch-numbers/], [https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2017/10/19/the-nintendo-switch-outsold-both-xbox-one-and-ps4-last-month/?sh=1201d66e6bf7]), while current reporting on console sales compares the Switch to the PS5 and Xbox Series X/S (e.g. [https://www.vgchartz.com/article/457247/ps5-vs-switch-sales-comparison-april-2023/], [https://gamingbolt.com/nintendo-switch-outsold-the-ps5-in-may-in-the-uk-for-the-first-time-this-year]).
:Most reporting seems to use terms like "current generation" to describe what is actively competing at the time of reporting (i.e. the distinction isn't about whether a company has released a successor console, but just that the "current generation" is current major consoles, so in 2018 that'd have been the Switch, PS4, and Xbox One, and in 2022 it was the Switch, PS5, and Xbox Series X/S). Explicitly numbered terms like "eighth generation" and "ninth generation" are somewhat rare in reporting. Plenty of sources argue that they don't exist at all, and plenty of those which do use these terms ''cite them back to Wikipedia'', as noted in this Gamesradar article ([https://www.gamesradar.com/ea-quickly-learns-it-has-no-idea-what-console-generation-were-in/]): {{tq|The issue is that there's no real accepted numbering of generations. If people have an idea of how the generations should be numbered, it's probably based on a Wikipedia article}}.
:The Switch likely should be '''mentioned on both pages'''. I think the honest problem is the continued insistence on categorizing consoles neatly into numbered generations regardless of whether it is supported by sources. [[User:Dylnuge|<span style="color: #1e79a1;font-weight:700;">Dylnuge</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dylnuge|''Talk'']] • [[Special:Contributions/Dylnuge|''Edits'']])</sup> 21:57, 2 June 2023 (UTC)


The Eighth generation of video game consoles is the first page to distinctly separate ps4 slim and Xbox one s from there original models. Every other page lists them together or under each-other.
== Nintendo switch is a 9th gen not an 8th gen console ==


End of story [[User:Gahex220|Gahex220]] ([[User talk:Gahex220|talk]]) 13:51, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
The pro models make sense to separate, the slim models should be merged in and added to details to the original model. [[User:Doremon764|Doremon764]] ([[User talk:Doremon764|talk]]) 03:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


:Just show us reliable sources that classify it as a 9th generation console and we'll update it. Hint: this has been discussed to death and no one has been able to show any reliable sourcing for this. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 13:54, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
:The slim models were only a casing redesign but did not significantly change the CPU or GPU. the Pro models did improve these systems and others. That's why they are treated differently [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 03:50, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
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::Seconded, Masem is correct. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 13:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I meant on other lists slim models are not displayed separately from the original model.
:::* [[Seventh generation of video game consoles]] (with Wii, Xbox 360, and PS3)
:::* [[Sixth generation of video game consoles]] (with PS2)
:::* Even with [[Third generation of video game consoles]], as well as [[Second generation of video game consoles]](with SG-1000, NES/Famicom, Master System/Mark III, Atari 7800, and for second generation Atari 2600 and Intellivision)
:::The chart on this page separate into columns Xbox one from its s model, the PS4 from its slim model, and Nintendo Switch oled model from the original column. [[User:Doremon764|Doremon764]] ([[User talk:Doremon764|talk]]) 22:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
::::When it comes to the handhelds on this page PSVita and 3DS are pact in the same box when it comes to how the chart is displayed. Just to bring up the inconsistency of the charts. [[User:Doremon764|Doremon764]] ([[User talk:Doremon764|talk]]) 22:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 13:57, 10 October 2024


The Wii U should be classed as a 7th gen console.

[edit]

The Wii U released one year prior to the PS4 and Xbox One, but was evidently made to compete with Sony and Microsoft's prior HD consoles. Not only is there little in the way of meaningful processor, resolution and memory upgrades, the Wii U still retained characteristics not present in any 8th generation console, such as legacy support for 4:3 standard definition television displays. If you track the hardware and software support from Nintendo and third parties, you can observe that there's far more overlap with Xbox 360/PS3's defining titles, and almost no overlap from PS4 and Xbox One (e.g: Black Ops 2, Splinter Cell, Batman Arkham Origins, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Mass Effect 3, Assassin's Creed III and IV). Major franchises (e.g: Minecraft, Terraria, LEGO) stopped releasing new titles or software updates simultaneously on all three HD consoles, and the hardware was discontinued entirely in 2017 - aligning closely with the discontinuation of the Xbox 360/PS3 hardware in 2016. Memoryman3 (talk) 23:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We go by how sources define the market and competition of the consoles, not the tech specs directly. Wii U was commonly talked alongside the PS4 and Xbox One, so its an eighth gen console. Masem (t) 23:05, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could you cite any reliable sources that define the Wii U as competing with the PS4 and Xbox One? Many publishers and developers didn't seem to think so as evidenced by the system's lifecycle and support. EA even refused to categorise Wii U as a "Gen 4" console. Memoryman3 (talk) 00:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's multiple in the article already, not to mention, simple Google searches find more pretty easily too. Sergecross73 msg me 01:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, reliable sources don't commonly state this. Sergecross73 msg me 23:15, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then the Wii should stay in 6th or 7th gen, it's literally an overclocked GameCube. VitAlv13 (talk) 12:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We go by what reliable sources say, per WP:V, not personal observations on horsepower of the hardware. Sergecross73 msg me 12:55, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then the Game & Watch Super Mario Bros. (2020) would be the successor to the Switch, because it released later? VitAlv13 (talk) 13:41, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not how that works, particularly with a product line as complex as Nintendo's. — Masem (t) 13:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand how you could have come to that conclusion from what I said. Sergecross73 msg me 13:57, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The separation of Original and Slim

[edit]

The Eighth generation of video game consoles is the first page to distinctly separate ps4 slim and Xbox one s from there original models. Every other page lists them together or under each-other.

The pro models make sense to separate, the slim models should be merged in and added to details to the original model. Doremon764 (talk) 03:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The slim models were only a casing redesign but did not significantly change the CPU or GPU. the Pro models did improve these systems and others. That's why they are treated differently Masem (t) 03:50, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seconded, Masem is correct. Sergecross73 msg me 13:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I meant on other lists slim models are not displayed separately from the original model.
The chart on this page separate into columns Xbox one from its s model, the PS4 from its slim model, and Nintendo Switch oled model from the original column. Doremon764 (talk) 22:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When it comes to the handhelds on this page PSVita and 3DS are pact in the same box when it comes to how the chart is displayed. Just to bring up the inconsistency of the charts. Doremon764 (talk) 22:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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