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== Removing "Internal Factions" from infobox ==

Would like to seek a consensus on this. The difference between a Blue Tory/Red Tory is best presented elsewhere in the article. It does not provide an objective reader with an accurate, objective view of the party's ideology. When objectively used, these terms best describe historical conservatism in Canada.

The contemporary Conservative Party is not defined by Red Toryism/Blue Toryism, at all. The latter term is hardly used to describe any federal Conservative politician.

"Red Tory" describes practically '''nobody''' in the parliamentary caucus. From my experience, the only people who use this term are those trying to present the party in a pejorative manner. I challenge anybody in support of this to tell me the leader of the "Red Tory" faction in the Conservative Party.

Presenting a party whose leader won as a non-incumbent with 71% of the votes cast and a 59 point margin as having deep-rooted internal factions is simply misrepresentation. [[User:Deathying|Deathying]] ([[User talk:Deathying|talk]]) 20:22, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


== Updates to ideology infobox ==
== Updates to ideology infobox ==
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This is in line with the examples I linked above, and recognizes the differences between the CPC and the ideology itself. The CPC's ideology and how conservative they can actually be is heavily defined by Canadian culture and values, warranting some distinction here.
This is in line with the examples I linked above, and recognizes the differences between the CPC and the ideology itself. The CPC's ideology and how conservative they can actually be is heavily defined by Canadian culture and values, warranting some distinction here.


[[User:Deathying|Deathying]] ([[User talk:Deathying|talk]]) 20:38, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
⚫
We should also add [[Fiscal conservatism]] back as an ideology associated with the party, especially when it is so plainly spelled out in the party constitution and party platform. I might add the [[2015 Canadian federal budget |last (relatively) balanced budget in Canadian history]] was introduced by this party. If that's not fiscal conservatism, I don't know what is. [[User:Deathying|Deathying]] ([[User talk:Deathying|talk]]) 20:38, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
⚫
:I would have no problem with Canadian conservatism change.... but fiscal conservative is a pipe dream....Fraser Institute
https://www.fraserinstitute.org › ...PDF
⚫
Examining Federal Debt in Canada by Prime Ministers Since Confederation, 2022.<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>-[[File:Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg|15px|link=User talk:Moxy]] 23:21, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


Fine. I'm okay with changing it to "Canadian Conservatism". The [[UK Conservative Party]] article using "British Conservatism" changed my opinion on this edit conflict. The definition of conservatism varies from country to country too (e.g. a Conservative in Canada, the UK, Australia might not be considered conservative in the US). [[User:Ak-eater06|'''<span style="color:#A2CEC2">Ak-eater06</span>''']] ([[User talk:Ak-eater06#top|talk]]) 01:49, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Fine. I'm okay with changing it to "Canadian Conservatism". The [[UK Conservative Party]] article using "British Conservatism" changed my opinion on this edit conflict. The definition of conservatism varies from country to country too (e.g. a Conservative in Canada, the UK, Australia might not be considered conservative in the US). [[User:Ak-eater06|'''<span style="color:#A2CEC2">Ak-eater06</span>''']] ([[User talk:Ak-eater06#top|talk]]) 01:49, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

=== Proposal to add fiscal conservatism ===

⚫
*'''Support''' We should also add [[Fiscal conservatism]] back as an ideology associated with the party, especially when it is so plainly spelled out in the party constitution and party platform. I might add the [[2015 Canadian federal budget |last (relatively) balanced budget in Canadian history]] was introduced by this party. If that's not fiscal conservatism, I don't know what is.[[User:Deathying|Deathying]] ([[User talk:Deathying|talk]]) 20:22, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

⚫
*'''Oppose''' I would have no problem with Canadian conservatism change.... but fiscal conservative is a pipe dream....Fraser Institute
⚫
:https://www.fraserinstitute.org › ...PDF Examining Federal Debt in Canada by Prime Ministers Since Confederation, 2022.<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>-[[File:Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg|15px|link=User talk:Moxy]] 23:21, 18 July 2023 (UTC) https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/conservatives-economic-vision-for-canada-is-hardly-conservative <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>-[[File:Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg|15px|link=User talk:Moxy]] 12:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

*What do the sources say? I'm wary of adding anything here simply based on our own analysis and what the party itself claims, because that has the potential to open a nasty can of worms. I'd also note that, after clicking through parties of the [[International Democrat Union]], I see very few parties that have "fiscal conservatism" included — "economic liberalism" seems to suffice. — [[User:Kawnhr|Kawnhr]] ([[User_talk:Kawnhr|talk]]) 16:15, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' now. Kawnhr's right; few Western right-of-centre parties don't list fiscal conservatism as an ideology. There's no need to add it to the ideology section in the infobox then. [[User:Ak-eater06|'''<span style="color:#A2CEC2">Ak-eater06</span>''']] ([[User talk:Ak-eater06#top|talk]]) 17:46, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

== Wrong sub-section ==

I think the current leader's image, is in the wrong sub-section. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 15:40, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 13:12, 14 October 2024

Updates to ideology infobox

[edit]

Would also like to seek a consensus on this to avoid an edit war with Ak-eater06.

There currently is a comment advising against a change to linking Conservatism with Conservatism in Canada in the infobox. I would like to make this infobox consistent with other conservative parties such as the GOP, Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong, Conservative Party (UK). I cannot find any prior discussion in the archives besides comments supportive of what I want to do here. Talk:Conservative_Party_of_Canada/Archive_2#Internal_factions, from 2017. If you do have a link to why this comment was made, please link it.

Under the ideology row, we should change Conservatism to Conservatism (Canadian) This is in line with the examples I linked above, and recognizes the differences between the CPC and the ideology itself. The CPC's ideology and how conservative they can actually be is heavily defined by Canadian culture and values, warranting some distinction here.

Deathying (talk) 20:38, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fine. I'm okay with changing it to "Canadian Conservatism". The UK Conservative Party article using "British Conservatism" changed my opinion on this edit conflict. The definition of conservatism varies from country to country too (e.g. a Conservative in Canada, the UK, Australia might not be considered conservative in the US). Ak-eater06 (talk) 01:49, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to add fiscal conservatism

[edit]
  • Oppose I would have no problem with Canadian conservatism change.... but fiscal conservative is a pipe dream....Fraser Institute
https://www.fraserinstitute.org › ...PDF Examining Federal Debt in Canada by Prime Ministers Since Confederation, 2022.Moxy- 23:21, 18 July 2023 (UTC) https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/conservatives-economic-vision-for-canada-is-hardly-conservative Moxy- 12:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • What do the sources say? I'm wary of adding anything here simply based on our own analysis and what the party itself claims, because that has the potential to open a nasty can of worms. I'd also note that, after clicking through parties of the International Democrat Union, I see very few parties that have "fiscal conservatism" included — "economic liberalism" seems to suffice. — Kawnhr (talk) 16:15, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose now. Kawnhr's right; few Western right-of-centre parties don't list fiscal conservatism as an ideology. There's no need to add it to the ideology section in the infobox then. Ak-eater06 (talk) 17:46, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong sub-section

[edit]

I think the current leader's image, is in the wrong sub-section. GoodDay (talk) 15:40, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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