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One Thousand and One Nights is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.

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Persian language revisited.

Hezār Afsān is a completely different (and, alas, lost) Persian work. Soundofmusicals (talk) 19:20, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Since Hezar Afsan is lost, it seems we can’t conclude whether it is significantly different or not. Ff11 (talk) 20:52, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Science fiction in the Thousand and One Nights?

There is a substantial paragraph dedicated to the supposed "proto-science fiction" elements of The Thousand and One Nights. This is, not to put too fine a point on it, absurd. Fantastic undersea realms and/or celestial realms appear in premodern literature and folklore across Eurasia (and probably elsewhere as well, although I know less about this). The same is true of enchanted objects that grant their owner the power of flight. It is ridiculous to apply the label "proto-science fiction" to narratives that incorporate supernatural elements that can be misconstrued to permit superficial analogies with space travel, aviation, et cetera. This is the same kind of sloppy and/or wishful thinking as claiming that premodern stories about dragons are "proto-paleontology" and classing them with Jurassic Park on the grounds that both dragons and dinosaurs are big scary scaly things. 2600:1017:B801:43AD:8477:164A:68E:BA8 (talk) 01:30, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article has become a drama and is not realistic as it was

The original page name was The Arabian Nights as it is known in the English language, and this is what the encyclopedia should consider more importantly. Why was the name of the article changed? It is better to return it as it was 91.186.231.120 (talk) 14:19, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Persian

@Derpenemich: the Thousand and One Nights is not preserved in Persian, only Arabic. Why would we then list a Persian name first before the Arabic one? Look at the talk archives - the issue of the "Persianness" of the text has been discussed to death. The fact is that it only exists in Arabic and was written in Arabic, though based on Persian stories to some extent. This appears to be yet another attempt to claim the Thousand and One Nights for Iran.--Ermenrich (talk) 00:39, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's true that the text as we know it was preserved in Arabic and that the earliest known surviving manuscripts are in Arabic. But historically Persian culture was erased from history and that the manuscript incorporates a rich tapestry of stories from various cultures, including Persian, Indian, and others. The Persian influence is significant because many of the tales that were eventually included in the collection originated in Persian literature and were integrated into the Arabic text.This interaction reflects a cultural exchange rather than a singular cultural ownership. This is no way trying to revise anything and claim that this manuscript is purely owned by Persians. Derpenemich (talk) 12:59, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then why don’t we add Persian titles to the Decameron - some of its stories have Persian origins. That’s not a valid argument.—-Ermenrich (talk) 13:00, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See also #Persian language revisited. above. The title you are adding does not refer to the Thousand and One Nights.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Probable Featured Article Candidate

I would like to start an RfC on whether contributors to this article feel that this is a probable featured article candidate. I feel this is a highly notable subject (more impact in popular culture than Shakespeare) and very scholarly-written compared to the last time it went through the failed featured article candidacy in April 2006 (it never had a good article candidacy). I am wholly unfamiliar with the subject though, but I am starting this RfC anyway. Sir Kenneth Kho (talk) 08:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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 {{Backwards copy | title = The History of the Arabian Nights | year= 2016 | url = https://www.pookpress.co.uk/project/arabian-nights-one-thousand-and-one-nights/}}
-== Sexism, Racism, Misogyny ==
+== Persian language revisited. ==
+Hezār Afsān is a completely different (and, alas, lost) Persian work. [[User:Soundofmusicals|Soundofmusicals]] ([[User talk:Soundofmusicals|talk]]) 19:20, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
-There should really be a section of this page about the incredibly sexist, racist, and misogynistic nature of some of the stories. Particularly the main Scheherazade plot line. To modern people, even and maybe especially Arabs, it can be shocking and deserves a section of discussion. Sexism is only mentioned one time on the whole page and only in relation to a recent non-sexist edited version of the Tales.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:CL8|CL8]] ([[User talk:CL8#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CL8|contribs]]) 14:10, 28 May 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+:Since Hezar Afsan is lost, it seems we can’t conclude whether it is significantly different or not. [[User:Ff11|Ff11]] ([[User talk:Ff11|talk]]) 20:52, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
-:Almost every piece of historical literature is prejudiced in some manner from a modern perspective - which is a bit redundant to explain, but certainly can be explained if there are reliable, secondary sources that bother to. But the topic is also subjective, and modern views don't mean the work was prejudiced in its time period - unless it is detailed as such by scholars. [[User:Iskandar323|Iskandar323]] ([[User talk:Iskandar323|talk]]) 14:26, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
+== Science fiction in the Thousand and One Nights? ==
-If this was a western work of art I bet you it would be heavily censored, at least "controversial"  [[User:Stianwick|Stianwick]] ([[User talk:Stianwick|talk]]) 17:01, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
+There is a substantial paragraph dedicated to the supposed "proto-science fiction" elements of ''The Thousand and One Nights''. This is, not to put too fine a point on it, absurd. Fantastic undersea realms and/or celestial realms appear in premodern literature and folklore across Eurasia (and probably elsewhere as well, although I know less about this). The same is true of enchanted objects that grant their owner the power of flight. It is ridiculous to apply the label "proto-science fiction" to narratives that incorporate supernatural elements that can be misconstrued to permit superficial analogies with space travel, aviation, et cetera. This is the same kind of sloppy and/or wishful thinking as claiming that premodern stories about dragons are "proto-paleontology" and classing them with ''Jurassic Park'' on the grounds that both dragons and dinosaurs are big scary scaly things. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1017:B801:43AD:8477:164A:68E:BA8|2600:1017:B801:43AD:8477:164A:68E:BA8]] ([[User talk:2600:1017:B801:43AD:8477:164A:68E:BA8|talk]]) 01:30, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
-:This is an [[anachronism|anachronistic]] view of the Tales. They were a (classic) product of cultures that existed centuries before modern Leftist sensibilities. With that said, if you want to add a "modern criticism" section, that would be fine, provided you have the RS to back it up. [[User:Bigdan201|Xcalibur]] ([[User talk:Bigdan201|talk]]) 02:46, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
+== The article has become a drama and is not realistic as it was ==
-::To take just one example: is ''[[The Canterbury Tales]]'' - the nearest "western" equivalent I can think of offhand, which is also (as one would expect) similarly deeply old-fashioned, subject to this kind of ignorant nonsense? "The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there". People obsessed with an all-pervading sense of the modern "left/right" dichotomy meed to get over this. --[[User:Soundofmusicals|Soundofmusicals]] ([[User talk:Soundofmusicals|talk]]) 12:10, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
+The original page name was The Arabian Nights as it is known in the English language, and this is what the encyclopedia should consider more importantly. Why was the name of the article changed? It is better to return it as it was [[Special:Contributions/91.186.231.120|91.186.231.120]] ([[User talk:91.186.231.120|talk]]) 14:19, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
-:::For all the differences, I'd say that's a good comparison, since they're both anthologies with a frame story. And yes, you need to consider the past on its own merits, rather than give in to the temptation to see it through the lens of current attitudes. Btw, you might notice that I'm perfectly capable of working well with others, depending on the context. [[User:Bigdan201|Xcalibur]] ([[User talk:Bigdan201|talk]]) 01:11, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
 == Persian ==
+{{ping|Derpenemich}} the Thousand and One Nights is not preserved in Persian, only Arabic. Why would we then list a Persian name first before the Arabic one? Look at the talk archives - the issue of the "Persianness" of the text has been discussed to death. The fact is that it only exists in Arabic and was written in Arabic, though based on Persian stories to some extent. This appears to be yet another attempt to claim the Thousand and One Nights for Iran.--[[User:Ermenrich|Ermenrich]] ([[User talk:Ermenrich|talk]]) 00:39, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
-The Persian translation '''of this work''' is from the Arabic - the earlier Persian prototype (Hezār Afsān) is covered in its own section. Note in particular that
-* "No physical evidence of the {{transliteration|fa|Hezār Afsān}} has survived, so its exact relationship with the existing later Arabic versions remains a mystery."
---[[User:Soundofmusicals|Soundofmusicals]] ([[User talk:Soundofmusicals|talk]]) 22:46, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
+:It's true that the text as we know it was preserved in Arabic and that the earliest known surviving manuscripts are in Arabic. But historically Persian culture was erased from history and that the manuscript incorporates a rich tapestry of stories from various cultures, including Persian, Indian, and others. The Persian influence is significant because many of the tales that were eventually included in the collection originated in Persian literature and were integrated into the Arabic text.This interaction reflects a cultural exchange rather than a singular cultural ownership. This is no way trying to revise anything and claim that this manuscript is purely owned by Persians. [[User:Derpenemich|Derpenemich]] ([[User talk:Derpenemich|talk]]) 12:59, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
-:It's often the case that historical texts have ambiguous origins. This is especially so when it's a compilation with multiple authors adding to it over centuries. We can surmise that there were Indian, Persian, and Arabic sources for this great work, and perhaps other sources further afield (Ottoman Turkey, Central Asia?). There may have also been translations back & forth and a complex web of influences, which is difficult at best to sort out. All we can do is work with what we've got. [[User:Bigdan201|Xcalibur]] ([[User talk:Bigdan201|talk]]) 03:28, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
-::Precisely the point we must make to all 'patriotic" Persian folk who assume that because the frame story has a Persian setting the origins MUST be Persian. At best it ain't necessarily so. We DO give '''Hezār Afsān''' a fair go, I think. --[[User:Soundofmusicals|Soundofmusicals]] ([[User talk:Soundofmusicals|talk]]) 11:45, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
+::Then why don’t we add Persian titles to the [[Decameron]] - some of its stories have Persian origins. That’s not a valid argument.—-[[User:Ermenrich|Ermenrich]] ([[User talk:Ermenrich|talk]]) 13:00, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
-:::Yes, it's covered fairly. It's clear that Persian language, culture, literary influence, etc was historically prestigious and widespread, see [[Persianate_society]]. Thus, a Persian-influenced frame story only narrows it down to somewhere between the Ottoman Empire and Mughal India. [[User:Bigdan201|Xcalibur]] ([[User talk:Bigdan201|talk]]) 13:43, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
+:::See also [[#Persian language revisited.]] above. The title you are adding does not refer to the Thousand and One Nights.--[[User:Ermenrich|Ermenrich]] ([[User talk:Ermenrich|talk]]) 14:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
-::::I'd suggest reading the literature of Iran and all the other countries you think 1001 nights originated from. Also the main story is totally Iranian with all of its characters also being so. The Arabic version was a translation and as much as some prople like to say otherwise, it doesn't change this fact. Arabs got rid of the original which is why we lost many of the stories. Some stories were later added again simply because people kept narrating the stories orally claiming these stories were also in the 1001 nights. It's about time some of us got a new hobby and let go of other countries' heritage. [[Special:Contributions/91.98.32.182|91.98.32.182]] ([[User talk:Dzhghr|talk]]) 12:26, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
+== RfC: Probable Featured Article Candidate ==
-== Related media: Video Games / Anime ==
+I would like to start an RfC on whether contributors to this article feel that this is a probable featured article candidate. I feel this is a highly notable subject (more impact in popular culture than Shakespeare) and very scholarly-written compared to the last time it went through the failed featured article candidacy in April 2006 (it never had a good article candidacy). I am wholly unfamiliar with the subject though, but I am starting this RfC anyway. [[User:Sir Kenneth Kho|Sir Kenneth Kho]] ([[User talk:Sir Kenneth Kho|talk]]) 08:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shantae
-The Shantae series draw from One Thousand and One Nights
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi:_The_Labyrinth_of_Magic
-Inspired by Arabian Nights [[User:Shafi96|Shafi96]] ([[User talk:Shafi96|talk]]) 20:16, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
-== Persian language revisited. ==
-Hezār Afsān is a completely different (and, alas, lost) Persian work. [[User:Soundofmusicals|Soundofmusicals]] ([[User talk:Soundofmusicals|talk]]) 19:20, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
-== "Many" or "Most" stories Arabic folk Tales? ==
-Restored revision 1165772977 by Samfedo (talk): Already pretty neutral - "most" has been there for years now - unless doubts about the source are based on an actual reading of its text rather than a "thought"? --[[User:Soundofmusicals|Soundofmusicals]] ([[User talk:Soundofmusicals|talk]]) 10:20, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
-:Hi {{u|Soundofmusicals}}, thanks for your remarks, however, i would draw your attention on the fact that the source has no page number, and as far as i have seen, there is no such thing as "Most" in it. Please let me know if you think i'm mistaken. Best.<b><span style="color:orange">---Wikaviani </span></b><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Wikaviani|<span style="color:blue">(talk)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Wikaviani|<span style="color:black">(contribs)</span>]]</b></small></sup> 01:38, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
-::Actually we may even need another reference - as "many/most" not strictly linked to this ref.? --[[User:Soundofmusicals|Soundofmusicals]] ([[User talk:Soundofmusicals|talk]]) 10:23, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
-:::Well, when a source has no page number, it's quite hard to find the relevant part of it that supports the claim, but as far as i've been able to check, "many/most" is not mentioned, this is why i tried to neutralize the sentence.<b><span style="color:orange">---Wikaviani </span></b><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Wikaviani|<span style="color:blue">(talk)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Wikaviani|<span style="color:black">(contribs)</span>]]</b></small></sup> 20:42, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
-== Science fiction in the Thousand and One Nights? ==
-There is a substantial paragraph dedicated to the supposed "proto-science fiction" elements of ''The Thousand and One Nights''. This is, not to put too fine a point on it, absurd. Fantastic undersea realms and/or celestial realms appear in premodern literature and folklore across Eurasia (and probably elsewhere as well, although I know less about this). The same is true of enchanted objects that grant their owner the power of flight. It is ridiculous to apply the label "proto-science fiction" to narratives that incorporate supernatural elements that can be misconstrued to permit superficial analogies with space travel, aviation, et cetera. This is the same kind of sloppy and/or wishful thinking as claiming that premodern stories about dragons are "proto-paleontology" and classing them with ''Jurassic Park'' on the grounds that both dragons and dinosaurs are big scary scaly things. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1017:B801:43AD:8477:164A:68E:BA8|2600:1017:B801:43AD:8477:164A:68E:BA8]] ([[User talk:2600:1017:B801:43AD:8477:164A:68E:BA8|talk]]) 01:30, 25 December 2023 (UTC)