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== Syncretic beliefs section ==
{{Archive box| auto=long}}


@[[User:GoutComplex|GoutComplex]] has added the following paragraph that describes Roger Williams blending Native American religious ideas with Puritanism. The only problem is that none of the sources cited actually make that claim. They speak of Williams having respect for Native Americans and observing that they had morality, but there is nothing in the sources indicating that he adopted any of their religious beliefs.
== Christopher Hill line doesn't seem to be objective ==


{{tqb|Some Puritans, such as [[Roger Williams]] and his supporters, drifted away from Puritan norms and incorporated [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Native American]] ideas about indigenous peoples' connection to their land and radical forms of religious tolerance into their practices.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Brunius |first=Brian |date= |year=2002 |title=Roger Williams |url=https://www.thirteen.org/wnet/historyofus/web03/features/bio/B05.html |access-date=2023-03-13 |website=[[WNET|THIRTEEN]] |publisher=[[PBS]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Brunius |first=Brian |year=2002 |title=Segment 2: Religious Tolerance |url=https://www.thirteen.org/wnet/historyofus/web03/segment2.html |access-date=2023-03-13 |website=[[WNET|THIRTEEN]] |publisher=[[PBS]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite book |last=Hakim |first=Joy |url=https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/50348061 |title=Freedom: A History of US |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |year=2003 |isbn=0-19-515711-7 |location=New York |pages=58 |oclc=50348061}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Mark |first=Joshua J. |date=2021-01-25 |title=Roger Williams |url=https://www.worldhistory.org/Roger_Williams/ |access-date=2023-03-14 |website=[[World History Encyclopedia]] |language=en}}</ref> Williams did not view all religions as equal,<ref>{{Cite web |last=Neumann |first=Caryn E. |year=2009 |title=Roger Williams |url=https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1231/roger-williams |website=The First Amendment Encyclopedia |publisher=[[Middle Tennessee State University]]}}</ref> but chose to incorporate some ideas from the nearby tribes' morality systems and their spiritual views and believed that these things were created by God,<ref>{{Cite web |last=Widmer |first=Ted |title=Native Americans |url=http://www.findingrogerwilliams.com/essays/native-americans |access-date=2023-03-14 |website=Carter Roger Williams Initiative |publisher=Rhode Island Foundation}}</ref> although he did not truly believe in Native American religion or philosophy himself.}} [[User:Ltwin|Ltwin]] ([[User talk:Ltwin|talk]]) 05:38, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
The line:
"English historian Christopher Hill, who has contributed Marxist analyses of Puritan concerns that are more respected than accepted, writes of the 1630s, old church lands, and the accusations that William Laud was a crypto-Catholic:"

There doesn't seem any citation or grounds for marking Christopher Hill's views as respected rather than accepted, when other historian's aren't commented upon in the same manner. I would suggest:
"English historian Christopher Hill, who has contributed Marxist analyses of Puritan concerns, writes of the 1630s, old church lands, and the accusations that William Laud was a crypto-Catholic:"

Then if a reader doesn't accept Marxist analyses they are free to make the inference themselves without the article prejudicing them. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:ZephroC|ZephroC]] ([[User talk:ZephroC|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ZephroC|contribs]]) 16:16, 17 February 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Requested move 25 June 2015 ==

<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''Move''' to [[Puritans]]. [[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 12:38, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

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[[:Puritan]] → {{no redirect|Puritanism}} – This article is discussing Puritanism in general, not one single Puritan. <small>--'''Relisted.''' [[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 18:49, 2 July 2015 (UTC)</small> [[User:Zacwill16|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT">Zacwill16</span>]] ([[User talk:Zacwill16|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT">talk</span>]]) 15:03, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom, although we could also move this to [[Puritanism]]. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold">'''''bd2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 17:37, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
**On second thoughts Puritanism is actually a better title. I've changed my suggestion to that. [[User:Zacwill16|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT">Zacwill16</span>]] ([[User talk:Zacwill16|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT">talk</span>]]) 17:58, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
*'''Support''' – A sensible proposal. [[User:RGloucester|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">RGloucester </span>]] — [[User talk:RGloucester|☎]] 18:13, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': I agree with the spirit of the move, however I must note that [[Puritan]] currently discusses the topic from the point of view of the group (i.e. Puritans), and not the -ism {77 vs. 29 mentions}. If the article is moved to [[Puritanism]], it will need some language tweaking, or should be moved to [[Puritans]] instead. Best, [[User:FoCuSandLeArN|FoCuSandLeArN]] ([[User talk:FoCuSandLeArN|talk]]) 21:16, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as the article is about the people, not the Puritanism itself. [[User:Calidum|Calidum]] [[User talk:Calidum|T]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Calidum|C]] 22:24, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
::Just to clarify I oppose moving to Puritanism. Moving to Puritans I would support, however. [[User:Calidum|Calidum]] [[User talk:Calidum|T]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Calidum|C]] 13:40, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' please don't change horses in midstream, the requested move is to Puritans which I would support but now you've changed it to Puritanism which I oppose with the same reasoning as [[User:Calidum|Calidum]]. [[User:Pjefts|Pjefts]] ([[User talk:Pjefts|talk]]) 10:56, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
::I hardly "changed horses in midstream". I changed it a couple of hours after initially making the proposal, when only one person had offered any comment, which was that Puritanism might be a better title. If you don't like it, request a move yourself. [[User:Zacwill16|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT">Zacwill16</span>]] ([[User talk:Zacwill16|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT">talk</span>]]) 14:12, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
*'''Prefer [[Puritans]] but okay with nom's proposal'''. Current title is okay but should be better with either suggestion. [[User:Red Slash|<font color="#FF4131">Red </font>]][[User talk:Red Slash|<b><font color="#460121">Slash</font></b>]] 03:55, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Prefer [[Puritans]] since this is an [[ethnoreligious group]] as oppsed to just simply a religion. [[User:Shhhhwwww!!|Shhhhwwww!!]] ([[User talk:Shhhhwwww!!|talk]]) 02:21, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

== Clarity ==

In the 3rd sentence of the lead, "They took on distinctive beliefs about clerical dress and in opposition to the episcopal system, particularly after the 1619 conclusions of the Synod of Dort they were resisted by the English bishops." needs unscrambling. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 22:06, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

== Anti-Catholic content ==

Let's talk about this content. Firstly, the North American colonies were of Catholic French and Spanish as well as Northern Europe Protestants. I don't see where this fits in with the rest of the article? There were no actions against Catholics in Puritan New England because there were no Catholics there at the time. [[User:Pjefts|Pjefts]] ([[User talk:Pjefts|talk]]) 02:07, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
:Puritan anti-Catholicism in North America is factual, well sourced, and looking at edit history I'm the fourth editor to acknowledge this. "In 1647, Massachusetts passed a law prohibiting any Jesuit Roman Catholic priests from entering territory under Puritan jurisdiction".<ref>{{cite book|last1=Mahoney|first1=Kathleen A.|title=Catholic Higher Education in Protestant America: The Jesuits and Harvard in the Age of the University|date=September 10, 2003|publisher=Johns Hopkins University Press|page=47}}</ref> [[User:DRodgers11|DRodgers11]] ([[User talk:DRodgers11|talk]]) 16:59, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


{{reflist-talk}}
{{reflist-talk}}


== वि पक्ष - सद्ै धांति क मतभेद मसीह समाज की एकता मेंबाधक है। ==
==Where are the Killjoys ?==
Killjoys is in the section title but not mentioned in the text. [[User:HalfGig|<font color="darkolivegreen">'''HalfGig'''</font>]] [[User talk:HalfGig|<font color="orangered">'''talk'''</font>]] 12:03, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

:Yeah I reorganized that section and took out the confusing "killjoy" heading. [[User:Ltwin|Ltwin]] ([[User talk:Ltwin|talk]]) 14:08, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

== Unclear and cryptic ==

This is not a clear and useful article because it fails to touch on the main aspects of puritans. Some sections are cryptic and not easily readable. I don't feel I learned much from this article. I suggest to make improvements to it (lots of them).

Since the article is full of inconsistencies and unclear passages, I will lists all the things I found.

1. Killijoys are mentioned but not a single explanation is provided.

2. "Elizabethan Puritanism contended with the Elizabethan religious settlement, with little to show for it. The Lambeth Articles of 1595, a high-water mark for Calvinism within the Church of England, failed to receive royal approval."

This passage is not explanatory.

3. "The Puritan movement in England was riven over decades by emigration and inconsistent interpretations of Scripture ..."

Is it "the Scripture" or "the Scriptures"?

4. "The Assembly was able to agree to the Westminster Confession of Faith doctrinally, a consistent Reformed theological position."

I don't understand the connotation of "agree" in this context.

5. "The membership of the Assembly was heavily weighted towards the Presbyterians, but Oliver Cromwell was a Congregationalist separatist who imposed his doctrines upon them."

This is not a good sentence and it should be rewritten.

6. "Under the Act of Uniformity 1662, the Church of England was restored to its pre-Civil War constitution with only minor changes, and the Puritans found themselves sidelined."

What kind of "minor changes" were made?

7. The "Millennialism" is a pointless section without substance.

8. "But the sexualization of Restoration theatre ..."

Aside from the fact a sentence should not start with a disjunctive conjunction because there is no contrast if you do that and it's grammatically wrong, as well as a widespread bad habit, what is "sexualization" exactly?

9. The "Family life" section does not say much about marriage. Did Puritans only marry other Puritans?

10. "African-American and Indian servants were likely excluded from such benefits."

Were they typically or always excluded?

11. The "Education" section says "The Puritan model of education in New England was unique, with the possible exception of Scotland."

Unless I learned geography the wrong way, Scotland was never part of New England.

12. "The Plymouth Colony Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas celebrations, as did some other Protestant churches of the time."

What's the reason? It would be nice if it was explained.

13a. "In fact, spouses were disciplined if they did not perform their sexual marital duties, in accordance with 1 Corinthians 7 and other biblical passages."

How were they disciplined?

13b. "Puritans publicly punished drunkenness and sexual relations outside marriage."

How were they punished?

14. "The Puritan spirit in the United States" and "Historiography" are cryptic, unclear, academic in tone and they lack substance.

15. "William Laud was a crypto-Catholic ..."

What exactly is a crypto-Catholic?

16. Under the "Notable Puritans" section, the entries for James Noyes and Thomas Parker could be combined since they say essentially the same thing. If every bullet is dedicated to a single entry, it seems the same, then the two entries should be spread out.


वि पक्ष - सद्ै धांति क मतभेद मसीह समाज की एकता मेंबाधक है। [[Special:Contributions/2405:201:5C13:A84D:B883:D928:FAF4:FC75|2405:201:5C13:A84D:B883:D928:FAF4:FC75]] ([[User talk:2405:201:5C13:A84D:B883:D928:FAF4:FC75|talk]]) 17:19, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
[[User:ICE77|ICE77]] ([[User talk:ICE77|talk]]) 04:47, 12 October 2017 (UTC)


== God's Law in the Bbile ==
== Puritans in 20 Century ....and today? ==


I missing the story of the puritans in 20. Century. In USA and UK.
Reference to God's Law in the Bible was sourced in the oldid bversion [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Puritans&oldid=891273434/ 891273434], substituted by {{ping|Ltwin}} with a more reliable one which is listed in bibliography. At [https://books.google.it/books?hl=it&lr=&id=0k5OCgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA91#v=snippet&q=biblical&f=false/ page 177] it says: "Puritans were inspired by access to the Bible in their own tongue...they were to be lights to lead others to their biblical truths...there was no one person or body laying out the central meaning but that the movement resulted from a multitude of interactions between individuals and groups of believers helps to explain the variety of puritanism".


And ....sound the "Probition" in he USA not a little bit PURITAN? [[Special:Contributions/81.20.127.222|81.20.127.222]] ([[User talk:81.20.127.222|talk]]) 02:44, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
Puritans were focused on their individual experience of the grace of God and on the collective government of the Church.
:Are you talking about [[Prohibition in the United States]]? While there was a religious motivation behind the policy, the driving force was the [[temperance movement in the United States]]. Adherents thought that prohibition would reduce or eliminate [[domestic violence]]. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 08:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
There exists a further consideration for the current statement: "Puritans believed it was the government's responsibility to enforce moral standards and ensure true religious worship was established and maintained". It can be added a reference to God's Will or God's Law in the Bible by which Puritans edified their fellow believers.[[User:Micheledisaveriosp|Micheledisaveriosp]] ([[User talk:Micheledisaveriosp|talk]]) 21:48, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:48, 20 October 2024

Syncretic beliefs section

[edit]

@GoutComplex has added the following paragraph that describes Roger Williams blending Native American religious ideas with Puritanism. The only problem is that none of the sources cited actually make that claim. They speak of Williams having respect for Native Americans and observing that they had morality, but there is nothing in the sources indicating that he adopted any of their religious beliefs.

Some Puritans, such as Roger Williams and his supporters, drifted away from Puritan norms and incorporated Native American ideas about indigenous peoples' connection to their land and radical forms of religious tolerance into their practices.[1][2][3][4] Williams did not view all religions as equal,[5] but chose to incorporate some ideas from the nearby tribes' morality systems and their spiritual views and believed that these things were created by God,[6] although he did not truly believe in Native American religion or philosophy himself.

Ltwin (talk) 05:38, 14 March 2023 (UTC) [reply]

References

  1. ^ Brunius, Brian (2002). "Roger Williams". THIRTEEN. PBS. Retrieved 2023-03-13.
  2. ^ Brunius, Brian (2002). "Segment 2: Religious Tolerance". THIRTEEN. PBS. Retrieved 2023-03-13.
  3. ^ Hakim, Joy (2003). Freedom: A History of US. New York: Oxford University Press. p. 58. ISBN 0-19-515711-7. OCLC 50348061.
  4. ^ Mark, Joshua J. (2021-01-25). "Roger Williams". World History Encyclopedia. Retrieved 2023-03-14.
  5. ^ Neumann, Caryn E. (2009). "Roger Williams". The First Amendment Encyclopedia. Middle Tennessee State University.
  6. ^ Widmer, Ted. "Native Americans". Carter Roger Williams Initiative. Rhode Island Foundation. Retrieved 2023-03-14.

वि पक्ष - सद्ै धांति क मतभेद मसीह समाज की एकता मेंबाधक है।

[edit]

वि पक्ष - सद्ै धांति क मतभेद मसीह समाज की एकता मेंबाधक है। 2405:201:5C13:A84D:B883:D928:FAF4:FC75 (talk) 17:19, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Puritans in 20 Century ....and today?

[edit]

I missing the story of the puritans in 20. Century. In USA and UK.

And ....sound the "Probition" in he USA not a little bit PURITAN? 81.20.127.222 (talk) 02:44, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you talking about Prohibition in the United States? While there was a religious motivation behind the policy, the driving force was the temperance movement in the United States. Adherents thought that prohibition would reduce or eliminate domestic violence. Dimadick (talk) 08:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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