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* General re-organization of this beast called "notable stimulants". I tried looking to [[Depressants]] as an example, but it's even worse than our article...
* General re-organization of this beast called "notable stimulants". I tried looking to [[Depressants]] as an example, but it's even worse than our article...
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== External links modified ==


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
{{talkheader}}
{{WikiProject Psychology|class=start|importance=}}
{{WikiProject Pharmacology|class=C|importance=top}}
{{American English}}

==Inclusion of Cold Symptom Relief Vasodilators?==
I really use WP very rarely, so I'm hoping someone will incorporate it if the majority approve. There's a bit of a gray area here, for drugs such as L-methamphetamine (racemic methamphetamine's stereoisomer, though apparently it's significantly weaker) and [[Propylhexedrine]]. These are medications used in OTC inhalants for cold symptom relief(in the USA, at least - I've read that, for the most part, they're either prohibited/prescription/etc. in...the UK and Australia, if I remember right). They are not meant to be orally ingested - but it appears that people do so anyway (I read some anecdotal accounts of these being among the most frequently shoplifted drug store items). They are seemingly dangerous and poorly regulated, and I don't want to make abuse of OTC drugs attractive to anyone - but that doesn't change that these drugs are stimulants. Since they're not marketed to be used that way, I don't know what you guys want to do - but I'd assume that someone could "catch a buzz," as it were, even from just inhaling the drugs.

(An interesting note - the Propylhexadrine, marketed in the US as Benzedrex, was not always the vasodilator used in that product. Propylhexedrine replaced "Benzadrine" in the 1970's, if I remember right. What was Benzadrine? Racemic Methamphetamine - yeah, the "active ingredient" in Crystal Meth. It seems that, throughout history, there's always been SOME potent psychoactive available at the pharmacy. Wild.)

Thanks, cheers, etc. [[User:Yesitsraining|<font color="red">"Yes...</font>]][[User talk:Yesitsraining|<font color="blue">It's Raining</font>]]" 02:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

:Since I got no reply, I figured I needed to be [[Wikipedia:BB|bold]], so I added in a Propylhexadrine blurb. Pardon me if you don't think it particularly bold, but I've been lurking and reading WP for probably ten years, editing mostly talk pages for 5, and haven't before added more than a sentence or a correction! Anyhow, I'm going to see if L-Methamphetamine is distinct enough from Methamphetamine to warrant its inclusion, and, if so, will add it at a later date. If anyone wants to correct my edit, give me any suggestions, etc., please feel free. Thanks, cheers, etc. [[User:Yesitsraining|<font color="red">"Yes...</font>]][[User talk:Yesitsraining|<font color="blue">It's Raining</font>]]" 20:46, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

==Caffeine problems==
I have removed some unsourced information, reworded much of the article, and broken it into two sections.
The unsourced information was both detrimental and does not make logical sense. The claim was made that caffeine can cause hyperactivity even after metabolism.
I also reworded the article because of the informal writing style, and repeatition.
Lastly I broke it into two sections. One for general information the other for effects of overuse. I chose to break it into two sections because information pertaining to overuse was already present. And I did not wish to remove it. Because overuse/overdose can is important information for any substance ingested it is my opinion that this subsection should be added for every stimulent summery.
[[User:68.167.252.68|68.167.252.68]] 05:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

:Good job! You should register an account, your edit was good. Keep in mind there are main articles for each substance (including caffeine) elsewhere, so I wouldn't worry too much about getting this article precisely correct. In the end, it should be a summary of what is presented more comprehensively in the actual [[caffeine]] article. [[User:Robotsintrouble|Robotsintrouble]] 20:18, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

== Ecstacy as a hallucinogen ==
I've edited the relevant section to clear up the error - MDMA is not a hallucinogenic, however it is often mixed with other drugs (MDA etc.) which are. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:80.6.29.161|80.6.29.161]] ([[User talk:80.6.29.161|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/80.6.29.161|contribs]]) 13:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --><!--https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Stimulant&diff=prev&oldid=39871832-->
:MDMA can cause hallucinations in high doses. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:88.117.1.240|88.117.1.240]] ([[User talk:88.117.1.240|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/88.117.1.240|contribs]]) 23:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --><!--https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Stimulant&diff=prev&oldid=327192846-->
::Is there no objective definition of a hallucinogen?? Why is there any argument about this? I was under the impression that hallucinogens is, as defined by wikipedia: "The general group of pharmacological agents commonly known as hallucinogens can be divided into three broad categories: psychedelics, dissociatives, and deliriants. These classes of psychoactive drugs have in common that they can cause subjective changes in perception, thought, emotion and consciousness. Unlike other psychoactive drugs, such as stimulants and opioids, the hallucinogens do not merely amplify familiar states of mind, but rather induce experiences that are qualitatively different from those of ordinary consciousness. These experiences are often compared to non-ordinary forms of consciousness such as trance, meditation, conversion experiences, and dreams." <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:69.105.96.200|69.105.96.200]] ([[User talk:69.105.96.200|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/69.105.96.200|contribs]]) 00:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --><!--https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Stimulant&diff=prev&oldid=361789296-->
This definition sounds completely accurate. I do not see why calling MDMA a hallucinogen is a mistake... <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.105.96.200|69.105.96.200]] ([[User talk:69.105.96.200|talk]]) 00:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Coca-Cola vs Coffee Caffeine==
Removed "One can of Cola = 4 cups of coffee" statement as it is outright wrong. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:130.212.158.96|130.212.158.96]] ([[User talk:130.212.158.96|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/130.212.158.96|contribs]]) 08:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --><!--https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Stimulant&diff=prev&oldid=29462786-->

==Aging==
What accounts for the more rapid aging that appears to be experienced by meth users (Newsweek had some before and after pictures awhile back &ndash see image 3 of 12 at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8758891/)? Could that also occur with chronic users of other stimulants, such as methylphenidate and caffeine? [[User:24.54.208.177|24.54.208.177]] 23:56, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

:It is unknown whether or not the use of stimulant drugs accelerates the effects of aging. I haven't seen a single study on the subject, either, which may be because aging itself is not yet well understood. "Aging" could be considered an abstract concept that is difficult, if not impossible at this stage in research, to quanitify biologically. Also note that methamphetamine addicts are often subject to many other health-compromising activities, agents, and behaviors, such as [[sleep deprivation]], [[malnourishment]], shared infected needles, the impurities found in street drugs, and more, all of which have serious negative consequences on health and perhaps may intrinsically accelerate aging. --[[User:Muugokszhiion|Muugokszhiion]] 04:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

::There is a connection between stress, metabolism and aging. Stress can increase metabolism, higher than normal stress levels as well as higher than normal metabolism levels can increase aging. Stimulants increase metabolism and can also increase stress levels, contributing to acceleration of aging. --[[User:Thoric|Thoric]] 20:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

:My two cents; if the use of methamphetamine leads to extensive loss eating and sleeping over several consecutive days, then the lack of these two necessities alone would cause rapid deterioration of the body. [[User:Barkleylee|Barkleylee]] ([[User talk:Barkleylee|talk]]) 15:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I dunno about accelerated aging, but the junkies/dealer that lived in the apartment adjacent to me a few years ago did look absolutely terrible. I dunno if aging isn't just being confused with overall unhealthy appearance, hair loss tooth loss skin deterioration and jaundice. But as said earlier poor sleep habits and malnouritiomeant as well as the physical tole the drug takes on ones body is quite sever and would lead one to believe that the abuser has aged considerably, based upon appearances alone. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Aryeonos|Aryeonos]] ([[User talk:Aryeonos|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aryeonos|contribs]]) 06:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Other Stimulating Antidepressants==
There are other examples of antidepressants that produce stimulation. While this side effect fades with continual use, in the beginning it can so stimulating that it's uncomfortable. (*Caviat: this is partially my own experience, and I'm unusually susceptible to the effects of caffeine.) I suspect that there are others, as well.
--[[User:67.172.170.146|67.172.170.146]] 02:55, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
:SSRIs (prozac, etc) can certainly produce stimulation, and are considered to be stimulants in some circles of pharmacology. --[[User:Thoric|Thoric]] 20:59, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Glucose? ==


Could some clarification be given on the status of glucose? (I assume that it is ''not'' a stimulant, but many people believe that it is.) -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] 06:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

:It's not a stimulant. Glucose spikes the blood sugar and provides energy, which can make someone peppy/hyper and seem like they're on stims, but it really isn't the same thing at all, chemically. --[[User:Blacken|Blacken]] 05:43, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

== Does MDMA belong on this page? ==

The stimulant effects of MDMA are small for most users, certainly compared to related chemicals such as [[Ephedrine]] and the other, non-empathogenic Amphetamines. The desired psychological effect of MDMA use has little in common with classical psychostimulant effects. Should MDMA really have a section here? [[User:24.255.11.232|24.255.11.232]] 03:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

::Possibly, but the line about it "often" containing a whole host of other drugs is wholely wrong, as repeated scientific samples (as opposed to media hysteria) has shown. [[User:Nick Cooper|Nick Cooper]] 11:42, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

:::MDMA is a powerful amphetamine-based stimulant that definitely belongs on the simulant page. -[[User:Muugokszhiion|Muugokszhiion]] 23:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

::: 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methyl'''amphetamine'''is the name of this chemical. Note that the word '''amphetamine''' is attached to the end of the name of this compound. All members of the amphetamine family are stimulants. MDMA is a member of the amphetamine family. This means that MDMA is a stimulant and should be classified as such. Furthermore, to avoid misinformation it should be classified as an amphetamine, and not be listed separately. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.39.136.223|72.39.136.223]] ([[User talk:72.39.136.223|talk]]) 01:43, 3 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Cocaine is not more potent than Amphetamine ==

I strongly disagree os the sentence "This dependence can lead a user to turn to stronger stimulants such as cocaine".

Since it has no citation I suggest the whole sentence is removed!
[[User:Noten|Noten]] 15:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

== Bias for caffiene ==

I noticed that caffiene is the only item to carry the term "overuse." This suggests that caffine is the only substance that can be taken in moderation without harm. I propose to either include the side-effects in the same manner as the other substances, or to add an "overuse" section to each individual item on the list.
[[User:OWiseWun|OWiseWun]] 09:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)OWISEWUN

:Please see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Stimulant#.22Abuse.22 this comment]. -[[User:Muugokszhiion|Muugokszhiion]] 23:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

== Natural? ==

"Caffeine is a drug that is found naturally in tea, chocolate, coffee, many soft drinks particularly energy drinks, and cocoa."

Its found naturally in many soft drinks? Yes, I've noticed that when I go pick the cans at the soft drinks trees I have growing in my backyard.........

Kent <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/213.141.89.53|213.141.89.53]] ([[User talk:213.141.89.53|talk]]) 12:52, 22 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> {{fixed}}

== Reference from ''Methylphenidate'': 'Hyperactivity Paradox Resolved?' ==

Removed this ref from [[Methylphenidate]], as the drugs tested didn't include that drug:

:<nowiki><ref>{{cite web |url=http://psychiatry.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/1999/301/1 |title=Hyperactivity Paradox Resolved? |accessdate=2006-11-11 |work=Journal Watch }}</ref></nowiki>

It doesn't look like it's referenced here, but it might be an interesting thing to add in somewhere.--[[User:Eloil|Eloil]] 22:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

== "Abuse" ==

Why did someone go through every stimulant listed and add an "abuse" section? This would seem highly motivated by bias and opinion and it really doesn't belong in this article. I would support removal of every abuse section from the stimulant page. Such a section is much more appropriate in the respective main article, not a stub paragraph listing briefly what the drug is and where it's from. -[[User:Muugokszhiion|Muugokszhiion]] 23:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

:I've commented all Abuse sections pending their removal and redirection to their main articles. If you are interested, please take the respective sections and move them to the appropriate place outside this article. -[[User:Muugokszhiion|Muugokszhiion]] 17:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

== Stimulant Box ==

In the box with all the stimulants could we catergorise them, like the antidepressant box so amphetamine type drugs like ritalin and other drugs which inhibit Dopamine and Noradrenaline (norepinephrine) are together <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:202.161.5.252|202.161.5.252]] ([[User talk:202.161.5.252|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/202.161.5.252|contribs]]) 09:27, 21 June 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --><!--https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Stimulant&oldid=139633557&diff=prev-->

== "popular culture" section ==

…was just created. Setting aside what seems to be wikipedia's general dislike for these kinds of things, this particular page seems like it would be an unmaintainable and endless list. Stimulant use is widespread, there are many types of stimulants, and there's nothing really notable about someone drinking a cup of tea or smoking a cigarette in a movie. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] 21:28, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

: Agreed. Even if it was restricted to films, even the most obvious inclusions would bloat the page to an unmanagable level. [[User:Nick Cooper|Nick Cooper]] 12:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

== Disambiguation needed ==

"Upper" now hard-wired redirects to stimulants, even though this term is often used in firearms talk (e.g. the Heckler & Koch 416 is a new upper for the standard M-16/M-4 carbine, which replaces the unreliable hot impingment system with a cool-running gas piston assembly.) [[Special:Contributions/82.131.210.162|82.131.210.162]] ([[User talk:82.131.210.162|talk]]) 16:58, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[Upper]] is now a disambiguation page. I have no idea what other meanings there might be that should be linked (vs just mentioned)--is this "upper" part of a gun specifically indicated in any of the diagrams on various firearms pages? [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 20:45, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

==[[arecoline]]==

{{discussion top|1=This comes from [[Talk:Psychostimulant]]. [[User:Where next Columbus?|W]]<nowiki>n</nowiki>[[User talk:Where next Columbus?|C]]? 17:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)}}
(...)and arecoline, the most widely used psychostimulant. - what is the source for this? This is highly, VERY HIGHLY unlikely.<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by[[User:83.168.75.25|83.168.75.25]] ([[User talk:83.168.75.25|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/83.168.75.25|contribs]]) </small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

:Actually, [[Areca nut]] (often known as Betel nut), is used by huge numbers across Asia. I'll add a few sources to verify the "most widely used psychostimulant" claim. &mdash; [[User:Scientizzle|Scien]]''[[User talk:Scientizzle|tizzle]]'' 22:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

{{discussion bottom}}
==Other compounds==
I suggest including 'other compounds' dealing around other compounds than caffeine, but found in similar low-calorie beverages (eg herbal tea's). Examples are siberian ginseng (which is btw used by professional athletes). Also I suggest a link from energizer (disambugation) and another note for "in popular culture": In Navy NCIS, one of the employees is called "Energizer Abby", as she drinks so much caffeine. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.246.143.173|81.246.143.173]] ([[User talk:81.246.143.173|talk]]) 13:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Merge proposal ==
{{Discussion top|1=The result was '''merge''' into stimulant. -- [[User:Where next Columbus?|W]]<nowiki>n</nowiki>[[User talk:Where next Columbus?|C]]? 17:35, 26 May 2009 (UTC)}}
Stimulant and psychostimulant seem to be mostly interchangeable; therefore, I think it might be appropriate to merge them, especially as [[psychostimulant]] doesn't really have any contents to speak of. [[User:Where next Columbus?|W]]<nowiki>n</nowiki>[[User talk:Where next Columbus?|C]]? 11:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I would support this merge. I think that the contents of [[psychostimulant]] should be moved into the lead of this [[stimulant]] article as it is currently only one line.--[[User:Literaturegeek|<span style="color:blue">Literature</span><span style="color:red">geek</span>]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[User_talk:Literaturegeek |<span style="color:orange">''T@1k?''</span>]] 10:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:I have one question though (which is also why I made a proposal rather than were bold): is there any distinction between the words psychostimulant and stimulant that needs to be preserved (e.g., psychostimulant has a specific meaning as defined by regulations or organisations like WHO)? Or are they always entirely interchangeable? (The definition differs a bit, for psychostimulant the article states locomotor activity, and stimulant uses wakefulness/alertness as definition.) [[User:Where next Columbus?|W]]<nowiki>n</nowiki>[[User talk:Where next Columbus?|C]]? 13:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think so. This stimulants article is describing stimulants which effect the CNS so are describing psychostimulants. You can have gastrointestinal stimulants eg drugs for constipation etc but psychostimulants are stimulants which act primarily on the CNS. I would just be bold and merge the two articles. It is such a small article I can't see any major problems. You could double check on the wiki pharmacology project to see if our assumptions are incorrect.--[[User:Literaturegeek|<span style="color:blue">Literature</span><span style="color:red">geek</span>]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[User_talk:Literaturegeek |<span style="color:orange">''T@1k?''</span>]] 15:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
{{Discussion bottom}}

===A late bit of input===
I haven't been around much recently, so I failed to notice this merge discussion prior to the actual merge popping up in my watchlist. I don't necessarily oppose the merger, but I thought I could offer some clarity on the terminology. Stimulants are drugs that increase the activity of various parts of the mervous system. Psychostimulants are a subset of stimulants, which have stimulant activities and additionally induce cognitive & emotional effects possibly including alertness, feelings of well-being, fatigue relief, hallucination, and/or euphoria. There exist many examples of compound that act as stimulants without strong psychological effects (i.e., drugs that only really act on the autonomic nervous system), but the delineation can get kind of fuzzy. In the medical literature, "psychostimulant" is almost exclusively used for those drugs that induce the arousal, cognitive, and well-being effects with a corresponding liability for abuse/dependence. This can be further confusing when colloquial use readily uses the terms interchangeably. In the end, I think the merge is probably a good idea, but this article could actually use more information about stimulants that ''aren't'' associated with the mental effects. The definition [http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Psychostimulants here] has a farily decent & short overview of the variety. If I can find time (and I may not be able to, sadly), I'll try to find some sources on the non-psycho stimulants. Cheers, &mdash; [[User:Scientizzle|Scien]]''[[User talk:Scientizzle|tizzle]]'' 19:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


I just noticed the discrepancy on the page. Currently, it asserts that psychostimulant is another word for stimulant, which is almost dangerous in it's fallacy. According to some research I did for a psych class a few years back, the primary difference between a stimulant (caffeine) and a psychostimulant (amphetamine) is that a psychostimulant causes a measurable improvement in fine and general motor control (as measured in lab mice). I was going to make the change just now, but I don't seem to have the necessary reference materials on hand at the moment. If anyone does, please make the necessary changes by all means, meanwhile I'll be trying to dig out the references from my research and update the page as soon as I can. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sarrin|Sarrin]] ([[User talk:Sarrin|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sarrin|contribs]]) 02:30, 21 May 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Psycho, the fictional ==

I'm trying to research into what the fictional drug "Psycho" from the fallout series could possibly be, from a scientific standpoint. In-game the drug affects your characters damage resistance (Probably like pain tolerance) agility (probably representing an intense hyperactive spike) decreases your intelligence drastically and has really bad withdrawal symptoms after a single use. it's supposed to be a "military Psycho-stimulant" delivered IV through a mixed two cartridge syringe. I want to put some scientific reason behind the article on Psycho[http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Psycho|The_Vault] in the vault, and find some basis for the drug, so far the only thing close I found was [[D-IX]]. I know this isn't urgent for this article specifically but if someone could point me in the right direction or offer some good speculation or what have you that would help make a great contribution to The Vault.[[User:Aryeonos|&#39;&#39;&#39;Aryeonos&#39;&#39;&#39;]] ([[User talk:Aryeonos|talk]]) 06:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

== Benzylpiperazine ==
[[Benzylpiperazine]] (BZP) (and similar piperazine derivates) should be added as another type of stimulans. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.117.1.240|88.117.1.240]] ([[User talk:88.117.1.240|talk]]) 23:24, 21 November 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Sympathetic Nervous System ==

Most, if not all, stimulants activate the sympathetic nervous system, but I searched for the word sympathetic and found nothing.[[User:Grouphug|Grouphug]] ([[User talk:Grouphug|talk]]) 20:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

== Coffee vs tea ==

The coffee picture says that coffee is the primary source of caffeine, but considering that tea (notably green tea) is by far the most common drink on earth, that's your primary source of caffeine actually. The world doesn't range from America to Europe. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/79.242.211.23|79.242.211.23]] ([[User talk:79.242.211.23|talk]]) 05:03, 8 February 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The same concern (interestingly, without perceiving it as a regional bias) was raised a while ago on the [[Caffeine]] talk-page. That article now says "Common sources of caffeine are coffee, tea, and (to a lesser extent) chocolate derived from cocoa beans." Even the same image is used, with a caption that says that coffee is ''a'' common source, not ''the most'' common. I changed the caption in the article here to match that one. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 05:26, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

== Stimulants versus medicin. ==


Drugs are drugs and not drugs.

Bunching antidepressants and other proscription substances together with illegal drugs of various sorts don't help much. Especially as you put a very viable MEDICINE such as Ritalin as the introducing picture... It's a medicine, not a drug. And it most definitely isn't a stimulant. Or do you call penicillin a stimulant to? As you actually get "up" from it. Ie get "up and out of your sick bed"...

Bunching medicine with drugs like this only help pushers.
It certainly doesn't help a parent with ADHD, trying to explain the difference between his good use of Ritalin and a teenage son's friends use of amphetamine etc. I know, I've been there, done that. And lost. Lost two sons to the drugs. So don't even try to to come back at me on this.

Ok, this was biased. Still true, bad medicine to mix drugs and drugs. Especially if they could be interpreted as if related. But then, really, add penicillin in here to...

--[[Special:Contributions/109.58.210.151|109.58.210.151]] ([[User talk:109.58.210.151|talk]]) 09:57, 26 June 2011 (UTC)ErkMa

:You seem to have some mistaken notions regarding the various compounds under discussion on this page. Any compound that can produce an alteration in a living organism's physiology may be reasonably called a "[[drug]]"; please see the [[drug]] article for explanation of the various medical and colloquial uses of the term.
:As for stimulants, this class of drugs is defined by having neurophysiological effects producing, generally, increased behavioral and cardiac activity. There are many [[illicit drug]]s (e.g., [[cocaine]], [[MDMA]], [[methamphetamine]]) that are stimulants. [[Caffeine]] and [[nicotine]] are widely-consumed stimulants with modest-to-zero regulation and social stigma, depending on your region of the world. Many useful [[prescription drug]]s are also stimulants.
:Finally, [[methylphenidate]], the active ingredient in Ritalin, ''is'' a psychostimulant. It happens to have some rather well-validated therapeutic uses, particularly in the treatment of [[ADHD]] and [[narcolepsy]] ([[d-amphetamine]] is also used in this manner: [[Adderall]]). However, methylphenidate actually has a mechanism of action in the brain ''very'' similar to cocaine and it is abused by some because of this (more info [http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/adhd.html here]). The key to therapeutic use of methylphenidate or amphetamines are in proper diagnosis of a condition that can benefit from such treatment, proper dosing and administration of the drugs, and vigilant monitoring of the response to the drugs--very different from recreational use of these and related compounds.
:Penicillin ''is'' a drug because it has physiological effects on living organisms, including bacteria and humans. It's not a stimulant, as it has no known [[Central nervous system|CNS]]- or cardiac-activating properties. I disagree with your statement that "Bunching medicine with [illicit] drugs like this only help pushers" as there is a lot of gray area involved in this topic, including overlapping mechanisms of drug action, abuse of therapeutic medicines, and past/present/future therapeutic uses of drugs presently considered illicit. &mdash; [[User:Scientizzle|Scien]]''[[User talk:Scientizzle|tizzle]]'' 14:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


== Division of phenethylamine section ==

This section is getting awfully large representing, as it does, 90% of psychostimulants. Within this class are clear sub-groups such as morpolines, oxazoline, diarylethylamines. I suggest that people begin using sub-groups as it is unwieldy. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.30.243.179|86.30.243.179]] ([[User talk:86.30.243.179|talk]]) 21:37, 18 September 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== [[Arecoline]] ==

I also thing [[arecoline]] should be added to the listing in this article. --[[User:Diogenes2000|Diogenes2000]] ([[User talk:Diogenes2000|talk]]) 22:12, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

== Orphaned references in [[:Stimulant]] ==

{{cot|title=Thank you, silly robot, but I saved those already.}}
I check pages listed in [[:Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting]] to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for [[User:AnomieBOT/docs/OrphanReferenceFixer|orphaned references]] in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of [[:Stimulant]]'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for ''this'' article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

<b>Reference named "Malenka_2009":</b><ul>
<li>From [[Methylphenidate]]: {{cite book| author = Malenka RC, Nestler EJ, Hyman SE | editor = Sydor A, Brown RY | title = Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience | year = 2009 | publisher = McGraw-Hill Medical | location = New York | isbn = 9780071481274 | page = 318 | edition = 2nd | chapter = Chapter 13: Higher Cognitive Function and Behavioral Control | quote=Therapeutic (relatively low) doses of psychostimulants, such as methylphenidate and amphetamine, improve performance on working memory tasks both in individuals with ADHD and in normal subjects. Positron emission tomography (PET) demonstrates that methylphenidate decreases regional cerebral blood flow in the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex and posterior parietal cortex while improving performance of a spacial working memory task. This suggests that cortical networks that normally process spatial working memory become more efficient in response to the drug. Both methylphenidate and amphetamines act by triggering the release of dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin, actions mediated via the plasma membrane transporters of these neurotransmitters and via the shared vesicular monoamine transporter (Chapter 6). Based on animal studies with micro-iontophoretic application of selective D1 dopamine receptor agonists (such as the partial agonist SKF38393 or the full agonist SKF81297) and antagonist (such as SCH23390), and clinical evidence in humans with ADHD, it is now believed that dopamine and norepinephrine, but not serotonin, produce the beneficial effects of stimulants on working memory. At abused (relatively high) doses, stimulants can interfere with working memory and cognitive control, as will be discussed below. It is important to recognize, however, that stimulants act not only on working memory function, but also on general levels of arousal and, within the nucleus accumbens, improve the saliency of tasks. Thus, stimulants improve performance on effortful but tedious tasks, probably acting at different sites in the brain through indirect stimulation of dopamine and norepinephrine receptors.}}</li>
<li>From [[Amphetamine]]: {{cite book| author = Malenka RC, Nestler EJ, Hyman SE | editor = Sydor A, Brown RY | title = Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience | year = 2009 | publisher = McGraw-Hill Medical | location = New York | isbn = 9780071481274 | page = 318 | edition = 2nd | chapter = Chapter 13: Higher Cognitive Function and Behavioral Control | quote=Therapeutic (relatively low) doses of psychostimulants, such as methylphenidate and amphetamine, improve performance on working memory tasks both in individuals with ADHD and in normal subjects...it is now believed that dopamine and norepinephrine, but not serotonin, produce the beneficial effects of stimulants on working memory. At abused (relatively high) doses, stimulants can interfere with working memory and cognitive control, as will be discussed below. It is important to recognize, however, that stimulants act not only on working memory function, but also on general levels of arousal and, within the nucleus accumbens, improve the saliency of tasks. Thus, stimulants improve performance on effortful but tedious tasks...through indirect stimulation of dopamine and norepinephrine receptors.}}</li>
</ul>

<b>Reference named "Miller":</b><ul>
<li>From [[Amphetamine]]: {{cite journal | author = Miller GM | title = The emerging role of trace amine-associated receptor 1 in the functional regulation of monoamine transporters and dopaminergic activity | journal = J. Neurochem. | volume = 116 | issue = 2 | pages = 164&ndash;176 | month = January | year = 2011 | pmid = 21073468 | pmc = 3005101 | doi = 10.1111/j.1471-4159.2010.07109.x }}</li>
<li>From [[Methylphenidate]]: {{cite journal | author = Miller GM | title = The emerging role of trace amine-associated receptor 1 in the functional regulation of monoamine transporters and dopaminergic activity | journal = J. Neurochem. | volume = 116 | issue = 2 | pages = 164–76 | year = 2011 | month = January | pmid = 21073468 | pmc = 3005101 | doi = 10.1111/j.1471-4159.2010.07109.x }}</li>
</ul>

<b>Reference named "Cochrane":</b><ul>
<li>From [[Methamphetamine]]: {{cite journal | author = Shoptaw SJ, Kao U, Ling W | title = Treatment for amphetamine psychosis (Review) | url = | journal = Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews | year = 2009 | issue = 1 }}</li>
<li>From [[Amphetamine]]: {{cite journal | editor =<!--Shoptaw SJ--> Shoptaw SJ, Ali R | author = Shoptaw SJ, Kao U, Ling W | title = Treatment for amphetamine psychosis | journal = Cochrane Database Syst. Rev. | volume = | issue = 1 | pages = <!--CD003026-->2&ndash;8 | year = 2009 | pmid = 19160215 | doi = 10.1002/14651858.CD003026.pub3 | quote=A minority of individuals who use amphetamines develop full-blown psychosis requiring care at emergency departments or psychiatric hospitals. In such cases, symptoms of amphetamine psychosis commonly include paranoid and persecutory delusions as well as auditory and visual hallucinations in the presence of extreme agitation. More common (about 18%) is for frequent amphetamine users to report psychotic symptoms that are sub-clinical and that do not require high-intensity intervention...<br>About 5-15% of the users who develop an amphetamine psychosis fail to recover completely (Hofmann 1983)...<br>Findings from one trial indicate use of antipsychotic medications effectively resolves symptoms of acute amphetamine psychosis.}}</li>
</ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. [[User:AnomieBOT|AnomieBOT]][[User talk:AnomieBOT|<font color="#888800">⚡</font>]] 07:22, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
{{cob}}

== Ampakines vs. Eugeroics: what's the difference? ==
{{cot|Nevermind... did my research}}
I know a lot but I don't know everything. And I can't quite place if and how these two are related, and if one is a subset of another, etc. Is anyone else confused by this (or have answers)? Is this a square/rectangle sort of thing? I read both pages but still am not entirely clear on this &mdash; despite what {{User|174.112.21.159}} said when he/she removed the tag, "...they are not the same and are indeed very different" &mdash; they look a lot the same to me.


I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Stimulant]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=678344335 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
I tried putting a "duplication" tag on one of them, but in good faith it was removed, apparently not understanding I wanted clarification about ''using the same term twice''. Excerpts here so ya'll know what I'm talking about:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100503164144/http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca:80/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/2001-eng.php to http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/2001-eng.php


When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.
{{fakeheader|sub=3|Ampakines}}
{{quote|Recently, there have been improvements in the area of stimulant pharmacology, producing a class of chemicals known as ampakines, or '''eugeroics,''' (good arousal)...}}


{{sourcecheck|checked=true}}
{{fakeheader|sub=3|Eugeroics}}
{{quote|A wakefulness-promoting agent '''(eugeroic)''' is a type of psychoactive drug which improves wakefulness and alertness, and reduces tiredness, drowsiness, and the need for sleep...}}


Cheers. —[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 20:15, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Notice I bolded eugeroics twice, for emphasis. So why does the lead sentence of ampakines here use the phrase "or eugeroic"? That sounds like an equality to me, i.e., a direct statement that they are synonymous (which {{U|174.112.21.159}} said they're not).


==MDMA is not a stimulant and should not be listed in this article as one==
[[User:Meteor sandwich yum|meteor_sandwich_yum]] ([[User talk:Meteor sandwich yum|talk]]) 00:31, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
MDMA is a psychedelic which means it is between stimulant and hallucinogen. It's inclusion in the stimulants list is inappropriate. If we are including MDMA as a pure stimulant we would also have to include LSD, DMT, DPT ect which all have a very significant stimulating effect on humans. [[User:Boilingorangejuice|Boilingorangejuice]] ([[User talk:Boilingorangejuice|talk]]) 20:06, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
{{cob}}
:Do you have a source for this definition of [[psychedelic drug]]? It doesn't seem to match our article. [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 20:21, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
::Also [[MDMA]] has reliable sources stating it is a stimulant. [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 22:00, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Well, given that reasoning I will be adding LSD and psilocybin to the stimulants list given that while they are mainly known for their hallucinogenic effects they are also stimulating. [[User:Boilingorangejuice|Boilingorangejuice]] ([[User talk:Boilingorangejuice|talk]]) 07:42, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
::::If you find [[WP:MEDRS]] sources stating LSD and psilocybin are stimulants then do so. I have not seen any however. [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 09:21, 8 June 2016 (UTC)


==MDMA is an amphetamine, why separete it?==
== Updated 2 sections ==
In the introductory section MDMA is listed as separeted from the amphetamines: ''It is estimated that the percent of the population that has abused amphetamines, cocaine and MDMA combined is between .8% and 2.1%''; Because MDMA is an amphetamine I'll edit this phrase to: ''It is estimated that the combined percentage of the population that has abused amphetamines or cocaine is between 0.8% and 2.1%.". <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Gottliber|Gottliber]] ([[User talk:Gottliber#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gottliber|contribs]]) 22:30, 13 October 2017 (UTC)</small>
:Fair point. {{Fixed}} it. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 03:32, 14 October 2017 (UTC)


The sentence, in its original form as well as in its new form, is not easily verified from the cited source. The closest I found was a table on page 149 which provides estimated '''annual''' prevalence (not lifetime or necessarily abuse) of Cocaine, "Amphetamines and prescription stimulants" and Ecstasy. Adding the global prevalences of Cocaine and "Amphetamines and prescription stimulants" gives a range of 0.6-1.5 %. Also including Ecstasy, however, results in the cited 0.8-2.1 %. Hm, I will try to fix it now. [[User:Ehasl|Elias]] ([[User talk:Ehasl|talk]]) 11:34, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
You've made some pretty good progress with all your work on this article, {{U|‎Meteor sandwich yum}}. I thought it'd best to distribute the amphetamine citations to the appropriate sentences. I also imported the new methamphetamine lead - I attempted to copy the style you used on the page when I did so. Feel free to change anything, and keep up the good work! Regards, [[User:Seppi333|'''<font color="#32CD32">Seppi</font>''<font color="Black">333</font>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 05:52, 7 January 2014 (UTC).
:Thanks for the positive feedback {{P|:)}}
:Looks great, by the way! [[User:Meteor sandwich yum|meteor_sandwich_yum]] ([[User talk:Meteor sandwich yum|talk]]) 07:15, 7 January 2014 (UTC)


PS: I realized now that adding the prevalences is simply wrong, since there will be (I would expect large) overlaps between the users of each compound/category. The statistics must be cited individually. I think one can drop the confidence intervals and just use the point estimates, though. I will try to fix it now.[[User:Ehasl|Elias]] ([[User talk:Ehasl|talk]]) 12:11, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
== ADHD section stimulants ==


== "Phenatine" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
The drug Propylhexadrine is accidentally listed as an ADHD drug. It is not used, nor approved by the FDA for such use. A quick peek at the wikipedia page confirms this by its' absence - it is a weight loss drug. It may belong on the stimulant page: just not under ADHD. I'm leaving this to you experts, as I've exhausted my knowledge in this post. :-D Thanks. [[User:Ukrpickaxe|Ukrpickaxe]] ([[User talk:Ukrpickaxe|talk]]) 17:41, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
:Thank you. A quick check says you're completely right &mdash; my mistake, actually.
:To anyone interested, I plan to re-write the section anyway. Stand-alone lists are sort of frowned-upon; and I mean to make this into prose. [[User:Meteor sandwich yum|meteor_sandwich_yum]] ([[User talk:Meteor sandwich yum|talk]]) 20:11, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Phenatine]]. Please participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 January 30#Phenatine|the redirect discussion]] if you wish to do so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 14:25, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
:NB--the above discussion is now '''closed'''. Decision was '''delete'''. --[[User:D A Patriarche|D Anthony Patriarche, BSc]] ([[User talk:D A Patriarche|talk]]) 18:51, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks for the fix! Sadly, your other improvement, which very helpfully groups all the ADHD meds together rather than dangling half of them under amphetamines, has undermined my current argument on the ADHD talk page, lol. For some reason the Ruling Committee refuses to itemize stimulants (the treatment of choice) but loves non-stimulants. Come over and help me out, I can't convince them lol! [[User:Ukrpickaxe|Ukrpickaxe]] ([[User talk:Ukrpickaxe|talk]]) 22:05, 11 January 2014 (UTC)


== Recreational use and issues of abuse ==
== Methamphetamine as neurotoxin ==


So, I am interested in the contents of the table, cited as [126]. I have had access to the original article and said table is not present there. It would seem it made of some data taken from a larger table, but if that is the case, the numbers do not correspond. Also, there doesn't seem to be methamphetamine in the table of the cited article. Where was the data in (and) the table taken from? I believe either the data is wrong or this is not cited correctly. Also, I'm interested in the source of the table. Thank you! <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/83.29.135.123|83.29.135.123]] ([[User talk:83.29.135.123#top|talk]]) 14:07, 28 October 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
The article calls meth a "neurotoxin and" cns stimulant. This is technically correct, I guess, since, as mentioned in the article cited, meth is neurotoxic. Pretty much all stimulants that act on norepinephrine and dopamine are neurotoxic in high enough doses over long enough periods of time. It's silly to include that neurotoxicity in the drug's definition. I'm rewriting. [[User:Quodfui|Quodfui]] ([[User talk:Quodfui|talk]]) 20:32, 19 November 2014 (UTC)


:The source is in the references, but the numbering is all messed up. It's at https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(07)60464-4. The methamphetamine entry wasn't there, so I removed it. [[User:Sonic The Holoprosencephalous|Sonic The Holoprosencephalous]] ([[User talk:Sonic The Holoprosencephalous|talk]]) 15:52, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
:I don't have time to deal with this - there are some good sources there that I don't want to remove, but as that section is set up right now it has a pov beyond that expressed in its sources. This article seems to have devolved into a discussion of stimulants as street drugs even though there are a variety of legitimate uses for which they are prescribed. [[User:Quodfui|Quodfui]] ([[User talk:Quodfui|talk]]) 20:46, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 04:34, 20 October 2024


[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Stimulant. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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MDMA is not a stimulant and should not be listed in this article as one

[edit]

MDMA is a psychedelic which means it is between stimulant and hallucinogen. It's inclusion in the stimulants list is inappropriate. If we are including MDMA as a pure stimulant we would also have to include LSD, DMT, DPT ect which all have a very significant stimulating effect on humans. Boilingorangejuice (talk) 20:06, 29 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source for this definition of psychedelic drug? It doesn't seem to match our article. Sizeofint (talk) 20:21, 29 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also MDMA has reliable sources stating it is a stimulant. Sizeofint (talk) 22:00, 29 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, given that reasoning I will be adding LSD and psilocybin to the stimulants list given that while they are mainly known for their hallucinogenic effects they are also stimulating. Boilingorangejuice (talk) 07:42, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you find WP:MEDRS sources stating LSD and psilocybin are stimulants then do so. I have not seen any however. Sizeofint (talk) 09:21, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

MDMA is an amphetamine, why separete it?

[edit]

In the introductory section MDMA is listed as separeted from the amphetamines: It is estimated that the percent of the population that has abused amphetamines, cocaine and MDMA combined is between .8% and 2.1%; Because MDMA is an amphetamine I'll edit this phrase to: It is estimated that the combined percentage of the population that has abused amphetamines or cocaine is between 0.8% and 2.1%.". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gottliber (talk • contribs) 22:30, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point.  Fixed it. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 03:32, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence, in its original form as well as in its new form, is not easily verified from the cited source. The closest I found was a table on page 149 which provides estimated annual prevalence (not lifetime or necessarily abuse) of Cocaine, "Amphetamines and prescription stimulants" and Ecstasy. Adding the global prevalences of Cocaine and "Amphetamines and prescription stimulants" gives a range of 0.6-1.5 %. Also including Ecstasy, however, results in the cited 0.8-2.1 %. Hm, I will try to fix it now. Elias (talk) 11:34, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS: I realized now that adding the prevalences is simply wrong, since there will be (I would expect large) overlaps between the users of each compound/category. The statistics must be cited individually. I think one can drop the confidence intervals and just use the point estimates, though. I will try to fix it now.Elias (talk) 12:11, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Phenatine" listed at Redirects for discussion

[edit]

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Phenatine. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Hairy Dude (talk) 14:25, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NB--the above discussion is now closed. Decision was delete. --D Anthony Patriarche, BSc (talk) 18:51, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Recreational use and issues of abuse

[edit]

So, I am interested in the contents of the table, cited as [126]. I have had access to the original article and said table is not present there. It would seem it made of some data taken from a larger table, but if that is the case, the numbers do not correspond. Also, there doesn't seem to be methamphetamine in the table of the cited article. Where was the data in (and) the table taken from? I believe either the data is wrong or this is not cited correctly. Also, I'm interested in the source of the table. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.29.135.123 (talk) 14:07, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The source is in the references, but the numbering is all messed up. It's at https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(07)60464-4. The methamphetamine entry wasn't there, so I removed it. Sonic The Holoprosencephalous (talk) 15:52, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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