Talk:Roanoke Colony: Difference between revisions
'confusing wording' |
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{{Old peer review|archive=1}} |
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{{Vital article|topic=History|level=5|class=B}} |
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|action1=PR|action1date=11 December 2019|action1link=Wikipedia:Peer review/Roanoke Colony/archive1|action1result=not reviewed |
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{{afd-merged-from|Lost Colony DNA Project|Lost Colony DNA Project|11:30, 5 February 2014 (UTC)}} |
{{afd-merged-from|Lost Colony DNA Project|Lost Colony DNA Project|11:30, 5 February 2014 (UTC)}} |
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{{WikiProject England |
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== Citation style == |
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==New Archeological Research Needs to Be Incorporated into the Article== |
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There is a news story today on new archeological research into the lost colony indicating that artifacts have been found on Hatteras Island indicating that the colonist survived and went to live with natives on what is now Hatteras Island. |
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I propose switching the citation style to Sfn notes, which allow for citing different pages of the same work in separate citations, eliminating the need for the 'rp' template. I think the rp template, especially combined with the AMA style, makes the article hard to read, with unusual small parenthetical numbers between the regular footnotes and prose. [[User:UpdateNerd|UpdateNerd]] ([[User talk:UpdateNerd|talk]]) 11:41, 30 March 2022 (UTC) |
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<blockquote>The English colonists who settled the so-called Lost Colony before disappearing from history simply went to live with their native friends — the Croatoans of Hatteras, according to a new book. “They were never lost,” said Scott Dawson, who has researched records and dug up artifacts where the colonists lived with the Indians in the 16th century. “It was made up. The mystery is over.”<BR><BR> |
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I'm reading the summary in the intro paragraphs without having read the rest of the article, and I find it quite confusing. It's filled with bad forms like "while awaiting... Lane abandoned"; it omits crucial information (I assume ''everybody'' abandoned the colony in 1586, not just Lane, otherwise it's unclear why they had to build a whole new settlement later); and it's vague about roles and cause-effect relationships. For instance, the sentence "During a stop to check on Grenville's men, flagship pilot Simon Fernandes forced White and his colonists to remain on Roanoke." Why was Fernandes checking on Greenville's men, who were only mentioned in relation to the previous settlement? What Greenville's men were doing at that point? How did Fernandes force White and his colonists to remain on Roanoke? Does that mean that the ''circumstances'' forced them (in what way, though?), or that Fernandes gave them an explicit order? This whole concept is immediately contradicted by the following sentence anyway, which describes White going back to England with Fernandes. And what authority did Fernandes have? He's only described as "a flagship pilot", which is an obscure designation if not expanded upon (and it's not even hyperlinked). [[User:Kumagoro-42|Kumagoro-42]] ([[User talk:Kumagoro-42|talk]]) 05:27, 1 May 2023 (UTC) |
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:I tried reading the rest of the article, but gave up. Like the lead, it is a confusing mess. It seems to be simultaneously excessively detailed while also lacking critical context. [[User:CAVincent|CAVincent]] ([[User talk:CAVincent|talk]]) 08:50, 18 August 2023 (UTC) |
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A team of archaeologists, historians, botanists, geologists and others have conducted digs on small plots in Buxton and Frisco for 11 years. Teams have found thousands of artifacts 4-6 feet below the surface that show a mix of English and Indian life. Parts of swords and guns are in the same layer of soil as Indian pottery and arrowheads. The evidence shows the colony left Roanoke Island with the friendly Croatoans to settle on Hatteras Island. They thrived, ate well, had mixed families and endured for generations. More than a century later, explorer John Lawson found natives with blue eyes who recounted they had ancestors who could “speak out of a book,” Lawson wrote.<ref>[https://www.pilotonline.com/news/vp-nw-not-lost-20200817-qgmblubzt5dyjm3jrcop25ssoq-story.html The Virginia Pilot. "‘The mystery is over’: Researchers say they know what happened to ‘Lost Colony’" by Jeff Hampton August 17, 2020.]</ref><ref>[https://www.amazon.com/dp/1467144339/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me= Amazon. "The Lost Colony and Hatteras Island" by Scott Dawson.]</ref></blockquote> |
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== Navbox == |
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I will leave it to others to decide how to incorporate this new information into the main article. |
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Hello! I've created a navbox to group the various topics surrounding the Roanoke Colony: |
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[[Special:Contributions/2600:1700:DC50:5560:81E2:BE7E:28F:DDC8|2600:1700:DC50:5560:81E2:BE7E:28F:DDC8]] ([[User talk:2600:1700:DC50:5560:81E2:BE7E:28F:DDC8|talk]]) 02:29, 18 August 2020 (UTC) |
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* {{tl|Roanoke Colony}} |
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I'll leave it under construction for a week or so. Feel free to contribute! [[User:Steveprutz|StevePrutz]] ([[User talk:Steveprutz|talk]]) 14:50, 6 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2024 == |
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: Hi - this is already well covered in [[Roanoke Colony#Integration with local tribes]]. We could probably add the book as a reference, but it isn't a new theory. [[User:Ckruschke|Ckruschke]] ([[User talk:Ckruschke|talk]]) 19:16, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Ckruschke |
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Peaceful and Lovely ABig Garden full of normal…just normal…ok! |
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== Dawson book == |
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== Huh? == |
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Scott Dawson has a new book <s>coming out</s>, claiming that the colony was never lost: its members simply assimiliated with the Croatoan tribe and lived happily ever after.[https://www.pilotonline.com/news/vp-nw-not-lost-20200817-qgmblubzt5dyjm3jrcop25ssoq-story.html] I'm posting the info here in case someone wants to use it: I'm unlikely to try to do so myself. Added: I see this is same book mentioned in previous talk entry. The book does sound like it has some new data. [[Special:Contributions/2602:24A:DE47:BB20:50DE:F402:42A6:A17D|2602:24A:DE47:BB20:50DE:F402:42A6:A17D]] ([[User talk:2602:24A:DE47:BB20:50DE:F402:42A6:A17D|talk]]) 04:15, 19 August 2020 (UTC) |
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“The colonists may have possessed the resources to construct another seaworthy vessel, using local lumber and spare parts from the pinnace. '''Considering the ships were built by survivors of the 1609 Sea Venture shipwreck,''' it is at least possible that the Lost Colonists could produce a second ship that, with the pinnace, could transport most of their party.” |
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The statement, "The Roanoke settlers were massacred" is a bit troubling. What if we instead stated, "The Roanoke invaders were defended against and repelled." ? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/66.41.236.23|66.41.236.23]] ([[User talk:66.41.236.23#top|talk]]) 17:13, 26 October 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Can someone explain how survivors of a shipwreck 20 years after the disappearance built anything having to do with the colony? [[User:PacificBoy|PacificBoy]] ([[User talk:PacificBoy|talk]]) 01:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC) |
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Casual reader here. I read through the 'voyage' section under 'Lane colony' but I can't quite figure out who was at Puerto Rico, who was at the Outer Banks, and when. Maybe it is obvious to someone more familiar with the subject than I, but I think it could use a tidy up. |
Latest revision as of 04:52, 20 October 2024
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Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on August 18, 2004, August 18, 2007, August 18, 2008, August 18, 2011, August 18, 2015, August 18, 2017, August 18, 2020, and August 18, 2023. |
Lost Colony DNA Project was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 11:30, 5 February 2014 (UTC) with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Roanoke Colony. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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Citation style
[edit]I propose switching the citation style to Sfn notes, which allow for citing different pages of the same work in separate citations, eliminating the need for the 'rp' template. I think the rp template, especially combined with the AMA style, makes the article hard to read, with unusual small parenthetical numbers between the regular footnotes and prose. UpdateNerd (talk) 11:41, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Confusing summary
[edit]I'm reading the summary in the intro paragraphs without having read the rest of the article, and I find it quite confusing. It's filled with bad forms like "while awaiting... Lane abandoned"; it omits crucial information (I assume everybody abandoned the colony in 1586, not just Lane, otherwise it's unclear why they had to build a whole new settlement later); and it's vague about roles and cause-effect relationships. For instance, the sentence "During a stop to check on Grenville's men, flagship pilot Simon Fernandes forced White and his colonists to remain on Roanoke." Why was Fernandes checking on Greenville's men, who were only mentioned in relation to the previous settlement? What Greenville's men were doing at that point? How did Fernandes force White and his colonists to remain on Roanoke? Does that mean that the circumstances forced them (in what way, though?), or that Fernandes gave them an explicit order? This whole concept is immediately contradicted by the following sentence anyway, which describes White going back to England with Fernandes. And what authority did Fernandes have? He's only described as "a flagship pilot", which is an obscure designation if not expanded upon (and it's not even hyperlinked). Kumagoro-42 (talk) 05:27, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
- I tried reading the rest of the article, but gave up. Like the lead, it is a confusing mess. It seems to be simultaneously excessively detailed while also lacking critical context. CAVincent (talk) 08:50, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
Navbox
[edit]Hello! I've created a navbox to group the various topics surrounding the Roanoke Colony:
- {{Roanoke Colony}}
I'll leave it under construction for a week or so. Feel free to contribute! StevePrutz (talk) 14:50, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2024
[edit]Peaceful and Lovely ABig Garden full of normal…just normal…ok!
Huh?
[edit]“The colonists may have possessed the resources to construct another seaworthy vessel, using local lumber and spare parts from the pinnace. Considering the ships were built by survivors of the 1609 Sea Venture shipwreck, it is at least possible that the Lost Colonists could produce a second ship that, with the pinnace, could transport most of their party.”
Can someone explain how survivors of a shipwreck 20 years after the disappearance built anything having to do with the colony? PacificBoy (talk) 01:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
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